once fat, always fat
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@SuggaD
Please stop spreading misinformation. This is truly one of the reasons people regain weight. Too much misinformation out there.
No, my Dear. This is not why people regain weight. They regain for all the reasons that other posters mention here, the main reason being : personal responsibility!
Read this:
Energy Sources
"Carbohydrates and fats are two of the three types of energy sources, the other being protein. All three sources must be processed and converted into energy before your body can use them. Carbohydrates are converted into energy the quickest, so the human body relies heavily on the easy access of stored carbohydrates as its main energy source. Fat isn’t as quickly available as carbohydrates; it must go through additional processes before being converted into energy. Protein contributes very little energy."
[/quote]
None of that matters in a calorie deficit. It is physically impossible to gain weight when there is no excess to store. All calories eaten are burned, and some of the stores in the body are burned as well, when there is a deficit. When eating at maintenance, there is no excess, so nothing is stored.
People regain weight because they begin to eat at an excess again. Period.0 -
I read an article where a physician described formerly fat people as having "obesity in remission." That's how I feel. Fat Jruzer always wants me to have that road burger, or an extra dish of ice cream once I've hit my calorie target.
I don't feel like maintaining my weight loss will ever be second nature - I will have to pay attention to it forever.
I know how to lose and how to maintain. But if I'm not vigilant, if I stop paying attention, I gain at 1-2 lbs per week.
However, I am at the point where if I do gain, I know how to arrest it and start losing again. I'm hopeful I will never be fat again, because I've kept the bulk of my weight off for almost 4 years. But I have to say I'm not as confident in this fact as a lot of posters here. Because I HAVE made a pretty substantial lifestyle change, and the siren song of Fat Jruzer still plays in my head.
Right there with you. I think a lot of people are in denial when they are saying that they know they'll never gain the weight back, but I was in their shoes a year ago... so sure I had this and it was easy and I was never going to go back to my old habits. Now a year later and 15 months into maintenance, I realize it's just not as easy as I thought. I still want that extra donut or to go to the store to buy a croissant. Heck some days like today I just say 'screw it' and have 2 servings of ice cream and a couple cookies after dinner. The difference I guess is that thanks to this app I know what the damage is, and I know I'll make up for it in less than 2 days and can still get a deficit this week, because most days I can say no to the extra treats relatively easily... but I STILL think about it.
That's why I sorta agree with the 'obesity is a disease' thing. Because it's as much a mental issue as a physical one. Sure, I've made lifestyle changes and can't stand not to exercise every day anymore... but I'll always want to eat more.0 -
I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.0
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daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
This is so true for so many people. Life can be overwhelming and some reason comes along and we hide behind the comfort of food. Our society is designed to use food as a reward, a comfort, a social activity. It's hard to get away from that.0 -
daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.0 -
Ashtoretet wrote: »I don't intend on ever going back to my highest weight. Yeah I won't be able to eat like I used to but I won't be starving and I will be a lot healthier.
This is my outlook now on my weight, I still have a few pounds left to drop, but I have changed my whole food intake and now exercise more, I know I won't go back because I DONT WANT to ever be that size again..
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goldthistime wrote: »I think it might be reasonable to think that because many people do crash diet, not understand caloric deficit, or have an underlying mental health issue that's going unaddressed and leading to overeating or bingeing. (I personally have started seeing obesity as a symptom, rather than a "disease" in itself. It signals that something is not right. For me it's been anxiety, for other people it may be ptsd or depression, or a maladaptive coping mechanism. I think those issues need to be addressed alongside weight loss for true change to be effective). I also think that for those of us who have been obese, getting to a point where you're not obese but still overweight is a big achievement that may go unrecognized by statisticians.
Just caught on the news here that the Canadian Medical Association has formally recognized obesity as a chronic disease. Apparently the American Medical Association recognized it as such two years ago.
Interesting, I didn't hear that. I thought it was only called "a disease" by the same people that call literally everything "an addiction". I didn't realize it was sanctioned by Medical Associations. It's not something I agree with, but I won't argue with them then. I guess I have a chronic illness then, lol.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
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robertw486 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »There are so many variables from person to person most any 'absolute' statement about diet/weight loss/gain will not be true from time to time. We are all different.
I can agree with this. People have to find their own groove and go with it. For all we know taking a magic placebo pill would put some people in the mindset that it's going to work, and they would alter their habits because of it. Others find motivations elsewhere. What rule works for one might not for another, and there are very few absolutes.
Personally I think the thing of people gaining back weight is largely a psychological thing. You don't get overweight without bad habits, and the farther they are planted in your mind as "normal" the more likely you are to return to them. It's easy to change behavior short term, but long term it's much harder.
The problem with "everyone's different" is that it makes any genuine consideration of the factors related to weight loss/maintaining weight loss meaningless. It's a platitude.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with the notion that we all have to find a path that works best for us, given our individual circumstances. But that path still has to be informed by good information. While it's true that science isn't black-and-white, making decisions based on good information means looking at what's understood so far about success.
Defaulting back to "we're all different, just find your own groove" isn't really helpful when we're trying to find ways to help ourselves and others.
I'm not at all stating to ignore proven science, such as the simply CICO train of thought. What I'm saying is that within the basic boundaries, we have to take a path that fits our lifestyle, commitment levels, motivations, and personal goals.
In short, finding the system for yourself that works for you. I've seen many statements of absolutes, yet a great number of people ignore those absolutes and succeed. Why? Because they find alternate means to accomplish the same goal.
The way I see it, absolutes can be just as damaging as allowing people to make their own decisions. Beyond CICO you can find so many differing opinions on just about any specific that it's mind boggling. Yet often people will stick to those opinions because it worked for them. And as long as they aren't giving out misinformation that mind hinder someone or be unhealthy, there is really nothing wrong with that.
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I don't think "once you're fat, you'll always be fat," but the fact is most people who lose weight will regain it, some will regain even more than they lost. Those who have truly made a lifestyle change and remain vigilant, using the knowledge they've gained on this journey, will maintain. I'm hitting 2 years maintaining. I am still learning a lot about myself and my body. Is it easy? No. I can't eat whatever I want. But I can go overboard every once in a while without any significant weight gain. I'm also very active. I grew up thin and gained weight while pregnant and life just got in the way. When I decided to lose the weight, I educated myself (and I'm still learning...learning never ends) and have maintained it while staying active, eating healthy, and still enjoying the foods I love. I'm really enjoying my active life and won't be going back to being overweight ever.
First of all, congrats on your continued success and long term commitment.
And I think you are hitting on a number of very important points that apply to the discussion. Like yourself, I grew up thin. My family ate healthy meals, and none of us were large. We were all reasonably active, and I stayed active as an adult through my military and self employed years.
Then we had a kid, and made some job changes. And had jobs where we could be much less active, but those jobs included more stresses where we might sit at the computer doing work and munch on something.
So like yourself, I got tired of that, got back in the game, and I'm glad I did it before I had a huge hurdle to overcome. I lost over 1/2 the weight to my goal with no logging of food at all, but just using common sense. Eat less, exercise more. As I worked on a fitness goal I got more serious about nutrition, and that was my primary reason for checking out MFP.
But imagine both of us grew up with the opposite circumstances at it applies to health and weight. If you grow up with a lifetime of a family that eats big, stays big, and teaches big, it's going to be a much larger hurdle to overcome later in life. To me the term "lifestyle" is all important here. If a person is just fine with staying larger and maybe even taking health risks, they aren't going to adapt a healthy lifestyle.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
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kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
That's my worry too. I'd seriously struggle if I didn't have my exercises calories to fall back on
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christinev297 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
That's my worry too. I'd seriously struggle if I didn't have my exercises calories to fall back on
It's a mental thing. But try to remember that it can be done - and remember that anything can happen. You never know if something when you can't exercise, and you need to be mentally prepared for that. Knowing that you can still lose and/or maintain weight if that happens is important, even if it never does.0 -
Has anyone see the HBO documentary "The Weight of the Nation"? Its a 4 part 1hr+ each series. Here is a 22 minute piece about how a person who lost weight's body wants to get them back up to that previous weight threshold and it has to do with leptin levels and the body thinking it will starve itself. Pretty interesting since its on topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A
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christinev297 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
That's my worry too. I'd seriously struggle if I didn't have my exercises calories to fall back on
It's a mental thing. But try to remember that it can be done - and remember that anything can happen. You never know if something when you can't exercise, and you need to be mentally prepared for that. Knowing that you can still lose and/or maintain weight if that happens is important, even if it never does.
Very true :flowerforyou:
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
That's my worry too. I'd seriously struggle if I didn't have my exercises calories to fall back on
It's a mental thing. But try to remember that it can be done - and remember that anything can happen. You never know if something when you can't exercise, and you need to be mentally prepared for that. Knowing that you can still lose and/or maintain weight if that happens is important, even if it never does.
Very true :flowerforyou:
I have recently learned to adjust my calories when injured and still lose weight. Many times in the past though, I couldn't. I just needed enough injury opportunities to get it right.
Tennis and aging helped me out with that.
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@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper.
Nope. As long as you're in a caloric deficit , weight comes off. No matter what. If you didn't lose weight, you weren't in a deficit. You need to weigh all solid food on a food scale to accurately verify caloric intake. All things in moderation, including cholesterol, and you're fine.
and as far as the piper goes, no one gets out alive, that's just how it goes. Enjoy the journey.
I wish sidesteel to counter this argument.
Corn syrup= honey= sugar=??? plus documentary-'supersize me'. My argument here is fast food weight gain is hard to lose (possible but requires more effort). Not going into CICO.0
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