Calories deficit vs quality of food
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What did I say that was rude or an attack?WorkOutMaster_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
There is no need to be rude. This is why people dont speak in THIS forum. Too many think they can dominate just because you created your own goal. Good for you. It still doesnt mean you can attack a positive post.
Yes its is about CI/CO. The rest will follow. Good on you two.
You can use the report functionality to report my post to the moderators if you believe it's broken one of the community guidelines.
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I'm glad they shared it. It was interesting and a nice way of looking at things. The steps thing - I really liked that.DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
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I think most agree going for quality food is a good objective where one wants to lose, gain or maintain weight.0
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Absolutely, though they may differ on what constitutes "quality," most people here probably end up striving for their version of it.GaleHawkins wrote: »I think most agree going for quality food is a good objective where one wants to lose, gain or maintain weight.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
You will still loss weight and depending on your macro split. Possibly more weight if you are light on protein (which isn't advised).
The difference the food choice delivers is better health benefits for better choices.
First part ....LOL Wut?
Second part ...yes
LOL (in capitals) rather passive aggressive!
Eating a deficit with a high proportion of carbs and fat and little protein will likely result in more lean mass loss, compared to a deficit containing adequate protein
As a one inch cube volume of lean mass weighs more than the same volume of fat the dieter will loss more weight for the same calorie deficit.
Just making a point that not all weight loss is the same.
Personally I think food choice is more important!0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
You will still loss weight and depending on your macro split. Possibly more weight if you are light on protein (which isn't advised).
The difference the food choice delivers is better health benefits for better choices.
First part ....LOL Wut?
Second part ...yes
Eating a deficit with a high proportion of carbs and fat and little protein will likely result in more lean mass loss, compared to a deficit containing adequate protein
As a one inch cube volume of lean mass weighs more than the same volume of fat the dieter will loss more weight for the same calorie deficit.
Just making a point that not all weight loss is the same.
Personally I think food choice is more important!
Why? What is the mechanism? Can you point me to your source information for that statement please
How is macro consumption related to the objective density of fat and muscle?
I'm confused0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
You will still loss weight and depending on your macro split. Possibly more weight if you are light on protein (which isn't advised).
The difference the food choice delivers is better health benefits for better choices.
First part ....LOL Wut?
Second part ...yes
LOL (in capitals) rather passive aggressive!
Eating a deficit with a high proportion of carbs and fat and little protein will likely result in more lean mass loss, compared to a deficit containing adequate protein
As a one inch cube volume of lean mass weighs more than the same volume of fat the dieter will loss more weight for the same calorie deficit.
Just making a point that not all weight loss is the same.
Personally I think food choice is more important!
I'm sorry I posted before you decided to edit in another part of your comment
My understanding is that LOL is generally capitalised as it is an acronym ..no passive aggression in the capitalisation at all0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
The title of this thread is - Calories deficit vs quality of food
@sunandthemoons is discussing her change in the quality of food she is choosing. Her post is very relevant.
Well done on breaking those habits @sunandthemoon.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
You will still loss weight and depending on your macro split. Possibly more weight if you are light on protein (which isn't advised).
The difference the food choice delivers is better health benefits for better choices.
First part ....LOL Wut?
Second part ...yes
LOL (in capitals) rather passive aggressive!
Eating a deficit with a high proportion of carbs and fat and little protein will likely result in more lean mass loss, compared to a deficit containing adequate protein
As a one inch cube volume of lean mass weighs more than the same volume of fat the dieter will loss more weight for the same calorie deficit.
Just making a point that not all weight loss is the same.
Personally I think food choice is more important!
You can make the most wonderful food choice in the world, but if your goal is to actually lose weight, unless you're creating a caloric deficit, your efforts will be for naught.
Why the false dichotomy you're creating here, food choice isn't more important for weight loss, it's more important for nutrition, fat loss, and body composition.
That's the position you're taking, but that wasn't the question posed.
An answer along these lines was given by more than a few posters without adopting a contrarian approach to the calories/food quality issue.
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The OP seems concerned with quality of food in relation to weight loss, my position is very relevant to that.PeachyCarol wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
You will still loss weight and depending on your macro split. Possibly more weight if you are light on protein (which isn't advised).
The difference the food choice delivers is better health benefits for better choices.
First part ....LOL Wut?
Second part ...yes
LOL (in capitals) rather passive aggressive!
Eating a deficit with a high proportion of carbs and fat and little protein will likely result in more lean mass loss, compared to a deficit containing adequate protein
As a one inch cube volume of lean mass weighs more than the same volume of fat the dieter will loss more weight for the same calorie deficit.
Just making a point that not all weight loss is the same.
Personally I think food choice is more important!
You can make the most wonderful food choice in the world, but if your goal is to actually lose weight, unless you're creating a caloric deficit, your efforts will be for naught.
Why the false dichotomy you're creating here, food choice isn't more important for weight loss, it's more important for nutrition, fat loss, and body composition.
That's the position you're taking, but that wasn't the question posed.
An answer along these lines was given by more than a few posters without adopting a contrarian approach to the calories/food quality issue.
I'm not sure what your point is in the bold paragraph above. I am not claiming that weight loss can happen outside of a calorie deficit - are you claiming that???
I agree food choice is not important for weight loss, in fact I was suggesting the worse choice you make the more weight you could lose.
My comment to the OP was stressing for healthy weight loss, food choice is very important.
Now can we get back to addressing the OP!0 -
OP wrote, "So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat."tennisdude2004 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
The title of this thread is - Calories deficit vs quality of food
The answers are yes to the first and no to the latter. No matter how much you try to obfuscate by citing a necessarily simplified post subject instead of the actual post itself.0 -
Google 'Twinkie diet'... Yes, you can lose weight; you might even see short term health improvements if you are obese. But 20 years on I wouldn't want the skin, hair, bones, brain or pancreas of someone who has only eaten that way. I follow the 80/20 metric... 80% wholesome food my great grandmother from the Isle of Man would readily recognize; 20% don't ask don't tell.
And without a deficit you won't sustain true weight loss, period.
Nicely said, my thoughts exactly!0 -
Obviously, if you want to be your healthiest, you'll do the things that will make you healthy and that includes eating healthy food.
I'm not really sure if the OP cares about eating healthy or if they just want to lose weight.
Some people really don't care about being healthy and just want to be thin or have big muscles or whatever. That's their goal and that's cool.0 -
Cough:: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10007789/flagged-content-reported-posts-warning-points#latest Cough::
On point: OP: you can eat whatever you like while in a calorie deficit and still lose weight. Some people have found certain foods more satisfying than others and choose to eat accordingly so they do not feel hungry. I don't believe the quality of food matters in the CICO equation.0 -
Obviously, if you want to be your healthiest, you'll do the things that will make you healthy and that includes eating healthy food...
"Healthy" is a vague term and subject to interpretation/individual bias. I'm sure my definition would be considerably different from a vegan, or a person who follows paleo, keto, etc. To me, "healthy" is getting adequate nutrition (micro- and macronutrients). Once you've met those goals, you don't get extra credit for eating more "healthy" food. If you have calories left to eat, there's nothing wrong with ice cream, a candy bar, pizza, a glass of wine or whatever else suits your fancy.
Being thin (as in losing weight) is simply CI<CO. When it comes to more specific goals (obtaining low bodyfat levels, getting "big muscles", sports performance, etc.), macronutrients absolutely *do* matter. As do caloric intake levels, how you train, etc....Some people really don't care about being healthy and just want to be thin or have big muscles or whatever. That's their goal and that's cool.
The answer to the OP's question is that speaking strictly in terms of weight loss, calorie deficit is all that matters. If you factor in overall health/nutrition, satiety, adherence, athletic performance and body composition, what you eat (i.e., micro- and macronutrients) matter significantly.0 -
You misunderstood the last part. The point is that some people don't care about being healthy and just want to look good. That's a valid goal. There isn't anything wrong with them. If they don't care about eating healthy or paying attention to their macros, that's fine.Obviously, if you want to be your healthiest, you'll do the things that will make you healthy and that includes eating healthy food...
"Healthy" is a vague term and subject to interpretation/individual bias. I'm sure my definition would be considerably different from a vegan, or a person who follows paleo, keto, etc. To me, "healthy" is getting adequate nutrition (micro- and macronutrients). Once you've met those goals, you don't get extra credit for eating more "healthy" food. If you have calories left to eat, there's nothing wrong with ice cream, a candy bar, pizza, a glass of wine or whatever else suits your fancy.
Being thin (as in losing weight) is simply CI<CO. When it comes to more specific goals (obtaining low bodyfat levels, getting "big muscles", sports performance, etc.), macronutrients absolutely *do* matter. As do caloric intake levels, how you train, etc....Some people really don't care about being healthy and just want to be thin or have big muscles or whatever. That's their goal and that's cool.
The answer to the OP's question is that speaking strictly in terms of weight loss, calorie deficit is all that matters. If you factor in overall health/nutrition, satiety, adherence, athletic performance and body composition, what you eat (i.e., micro- and macronutrients) matter significantly.
As for the first part, if you have a genuine interest in finding out what is healthy for you, see your doctor. I couldn't tell you what you should do any more than you could tell me what I should do.
This frequently-repeated business of how "you don't get extra credit" is rather pointless. People who say they're eating junk food because they have hit their macro and micro goals...they really haven't. I skimmed some diaries, once, of the people who say that - none actually got all their micros. So, a little more fruit or veggies wouldn't have been "extra" credit. It would've been the regular kind.
However, nobody needs an defend their decision to eat junk food. You don't have to fulfill all your micros in order to have whatever you want. No excuse required! If you want to have pizza and ice cream for dinner, it's your choice. It's a valid choice and I support it.
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I skimmed some diaries, once, of the people who say that - none actually got all their micros. So, a little more fruit or veggies wouldn't have been "extra" credit. It would've been the regular kind.
I've been logging on CronOMeter, so I'm pretty sure I do usually get my micros. (Haven't been logging here regularly lately -- doing CronOMeter more because it's interesting and inspires me to log.)
On the other hand, I know I am regularly low on iron when I don't watch it, and yet I've never been anemic, so does it really matter that I've generally not obsessively logged and watched iron? Has my diet been inadequate? Or, perhaps, is it enough to generally eat a healthy diet without hitting every target every day? Given human history and how spotty our access to food often was, I suspect the latter. (And my doctor certainly never told me to track every nutrient. She asked generally how I ate and said the only supplement to bother with was D, in the winter, given how common it is to be low in it in this climate.)
Cron says I usually hit D, though, surprisingly.0 -
No, I understood it perfectly. My point is that if somebody cares about aesthetics/appearance, macros matter significantly. If one just wants to get 'skinny' and don't care that they look like 5 pounds of flour in a 10-pound sack, a calorie deficit alone will accomplish that perfectly. If you want to preserve lean body mass and look lean/athletic ("toned" in the ladies' vernacular), macros matter. As does training. Skinny looks good in clothes; lean/athletic looks good without them.You misunderstood the last part. The point is that some people don't care about being healthy and just want to look good. That's a valid goal. There isn't anything wrong with them. If they don't care about eating healthy or paying attention to their macros, that's fine...
Thanks for the help, but I was making a statement rather than asking for advice. I've taken the time and made the effort to educate myself on both nutrition and training (and how to separate science from junk/pseudoscience) and am well aware of what "healthy" is. I'm also aware of what orthorexia (orthorexia nervosa) is, and I want no part of it....As for the first part, if you have a genuine interest in finding out what is healthy for you, see your doctor. I couldn't tell you what you should do any more than you could tell me what I should do.0
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