Calories deficit vs quality of food
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »To answer the OP's question, technically, CICO is all that matters if all that matters to you is weight loss. But I sure hope that percentage of us who don't care about health is very small. My assumption would be that most of us are trying to eat in a sustainably healthy way at the same time as we lose weight.
My assumption when people ask this question is that they want to know "Can I eat imperfectly?" For many years, I have eaten what must be relatively healthy as I have perfect cholesterol and blood glucose numbers, I just ate too much of it. (In fact, just this week my doctor told me exactly that.) And for years, I thought I must be doing something wrong, eating the wrong food, not eating the right food, whatever. I think a lot of people just want validation that they don't have to eat textbook perfect. (I'm not saying that no one hopes to subsist on a fast food diet, I'm sure those people are out there.)
I think a lot of the MFP discussion is weirdly driven by people who used to subsist on fast food diets and assume it's more common than it is, and that it's what the rest of us mean when saying "eat a moderate diet of what you like, generally balanced and healthy." Which is, of course, annoying. I agree that most who ask the question just mean can they not eat perfectly always--and I'd love to hear a good reason against that, because I don't think it exists.
I was going to write a similar post, but amusingly (to me at least), from the opposite perspective. I have always thought that MFPers who DIDN'T eat poorly while gaining weight were more of an exception than the norm
. Wonder what the stats are?
I am definitely someone who allowed the quality of my diet to deteriorate into carbaloozaland. Oh sure, I ate whole wheat pasta and brown rice, and tofu on occasion, but I was getting very little protein, and not proper nutrition in general. Treats weren't treats, as in eaten only occasionally. Technically they were staples in my diet. Some of the passion that I see on here (and felt myself, still occasionally feel), comes from the process of convincing yourself to change. Working up the motivation and conviction to change. To eat "cleaner". Ex-smokers, born-agains, we, the newly converted, we want to go out and preach. Comments like "eat what you like" were dangerous in the beginning.0 -
WorkOutMaster_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO. ^It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
There is no need to be rude. This is why people dont speak in THIS forum. Too many think they can dominate just because you created your own goal. Good for you. It still doesnt mean you can attack a positive post.
Yes its is about CI/CO. The rest will follow. Good on you two.
My thoughts exactly Workoutmaster!0 -
It's all about CICO.0
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »To answer the OP's question, technically, CICO is all that matters if all that matters to you is weight loss. But I sure hope that percentage of us who don't care about health is very small. My assumption would be that most of us are trying to eat in a sustainably healthy way at the same time as we lose weight.
My assumption when people ask this question is that they want to know "Can I eat imperfectly?" For many years, I have eaten what must be relatively healthy as I have perfect cholesterol and blood glucose numbers, I just ate too much of it. (In fact, just this week my doctor told me exactly that.) And for years, I thought I must be doing something wrong, eating the wrong food, not eating the right food, whatever. I think a lot of people just want validation that they don't have to eat textbook perfect. (I'm not saying that no one hopes to subsist on a fast food diet, I'm sure those people are out there.)
I think a lot of the MFP discussion is weirdly driven by people who used to subsist on fast food diets and assume it's more common than it is, and that it's what the rest of us mean when saying "eat a moderate diet of what you like, generally balanced and healthy." Which is, of course, annoying. I agree that most who ask the question just mean can they not eat perfectly always--and I'd love to hear a good reason against that, because I don't think it exists.bags
I was going to write a similar post, but amusingly (to me at least), from the opposite perspective. I have always thought that MFPers who DIDN'T eat poorly while gaining weight were more of an exception than the norm. Wonder what the stats are?
I am definitely someone who allowed the quality of my diet to deteriorate into carbaloozaland. Oh sure, I ate whole wheat pasta and brown rice, and tofu on occasion, but I was getting very little protein, and not proper nutrition in general. Treats weren't treats, as in eaten only occasionally. Technically they were staples in my diet. Some of the passion that I see on here (and felt myself, still occasionally feel), comes from the process of convincing yourself to change. Working up the motivation and conviction to change. To eat "cleaner". Ex-smokers, born-agains, we, the newly converted, we want to go out and preach. Comments like "eat what you like" were dangerous in the beginning.
I'm in the same camp as @maidentl . I ate well...lots of veggies...no binging...no bags of chips or quarts of ice cream...no daily or even weekly fast food.... Just too much food in general.
I tend to think that many people assume that the obese all eat like crap and that's simply not true. Ten pounds a year is only 100 calories extra a day. It's very easy to gain weight consistently overeating by a little, even when the food is what most would consider healthy.
ETA - I also wonder what the breakdown of histories would show.
A pharmacist friend once told me about how much of a problem it was that doctors kept prescribing drugs based on their anecdotal experiences with it, rather than relying on the scientific studies. It's difficult to reframe your thinking in such a way that ignores your own experiences.
I used to believe that eating lots of sugary carbs were NECESSARY to become obese (because otherwise you'd feel too full to carry on overeating). Because that was how I gained weight. But in hindsight, my weight gain periods were far outnumbered by my healthy periods. It makes sense that people can gain weight slowly over time too. Just wasn't my experience.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I skimmed some diaries, once, of the people who say that - none actually got all their micros. So, a little more fruit or veggies wouldn't have been "extra" credit. It would've been the regular kind.
I've been logging on CronOMeter, so I'm pretty sure I do usually get my micros. (Haven't been logging here regularly lately -- doing CronOMeter more because it's interesting and inspires me to log.)
On the other hand, I know I am regularly low on iron when I don't watch it, and yet I've never been anemic, so does it really matter that I've generally not obsessively logged and watched iron? Has my diet been inadequate? Or, perhaps, is it enough to generally eat a healthy diet without hitting every target every day? Given human history and how spotty our access to food often was, I suspect the latter. (And my doctor certainly never told me to track every nutrient. She asked generally how I ate and said the only supplement to bother with was D, in the winter, given how common it is to be low in it in this climate.)
Cron says I usually hit D, though, surprisingly.
We've discussed this several times before. You know how impressed I am by your diet.
I tried to do as well as you do, but have since given up on ever accomplishing it.
My diet isn't that exciting. The main thing I do is focus on eating lots of vegetables and especially greens. I find adding more legumes helps on Cron, which was a goal anyway. It's true I like meat (especially any seafood) so have no issues with protein.
What's the data base like there? The ability to create recipes? Anything that gives more data makes me wibble in naughty places.
I think the recipe function is as good or better than MFP, but I've always been less than sold on the one at MFP and never import anything. The database is better (IMO) for whole foods, because it's more restricted to the accurate entries (USDA and other such options). For anything other than whole foods you pretty much have to add your own entries, but to get all the micro information you would have to do that at MFP. I was surprised but pleased at how well it operates as an alternative place to log, for what I am looking for.0 -
WorkOutMaster_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
There is no need to be rude. This is why people dont speak in THIS forum. Too many think they can dominate just because you created your own goal. Good for you. It still doesnt mean you can attack a positive post.
Yes its is about CI/CO. The rest will follow. Good on you two.
+10 -
goldthistime wrote: »HappyCampr1 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »To answer the OP's question, technically, CICO is all that matters if all that matters to you is weight loss. But I sure hope that percentage of us who don't care about health is very small. My assumption would be that most of us are trying to eat in a sustainably healthy way at the same time as we lose weight.
My assumption when people ask this question is that they want to know "Can I eat imperfectly?" For many years, I have eaten what must be relatively healthy as I have perfect cholesterol and blood glucose numbers, I just ate too much of it. (In fact, just this week my doctor told me exactly that.) And for years, I thought I must be doing something wrong, eating the wrong food, not eating the right food, whatever. I think a lot of people just want validation that they don't have to eat textbook perfect. (I'm not saying that no one hopes to subsist on a fast food diet, I'm sure those people are out there.)
I think a lot of the MFP discussion is weirdly driven by people who used to subsist on fast food diets and assume it's more common than it is, and that it's what the rest of us mean when saying "eat a moderate diet of what you like, generally balanced and healthy." Which is, of course, annoying. I agree that most who ask the question just mean can they not eat perfectly always--and I'd love to hear a good reason against that, because I don't think it exists.bags
I was going to write a similar post, but amusingly (to me at least), from the opposite perspective. I have always thought that MFPers who DIDN'T eat poorly while gaining weight were more of an exception than the norm. Wonder what the stats are?
I am definitely someone who allowed the quality of my diet to deteriorate into carbaloozaland. Oh sure, I ate whole wheat pasta and brown rice, and tofu on occasion, but I was getting very little protein, and not proper nutrition in general. Treats weren't treats, as in eaten only occasionally. Technically they were staples in my diet. Some of the passion that I see on here (and felt myself, still occasionally feel), comes from the process of convincing yourself to change. Working up the motivation and conviction to change. To eat "cleaner". Ex-smokers, born-agains, we, the newly converted, we want to go out and preach. Comments like "eat what you like" were dangerous in the beginning.
I'm in the same camp as @maidentl . I ate well...lots of veggies...no binging...no bags of chips or quarts of ice cream...no daily or even weekly fast food.... Just too much food in general.
I tend to think that many people assume that the obese all eat like crap and that's simply not true. Ten pounds a year is only 100 calories extra a day. It's very easy to gain weight consistently overeating by a little, even when the food is what most would consider healthy.
ETA - I also wonder what the breakdown of histories would show.
A pharmacist friend once told me about how much of a problem it was that doctors kept prescribing drugs based on their anecdotal experiences with it, rather than relying on the scientific studies. It's difficult to reframe your thinking in such a way that ignores your own experiences.
I used to believe that eating lots of sugary carbs were NECESSARY to become obese (because otherwise you'd feel too full to carry on overeating). Because that was how I gained weight. But in hindsight, my weight gain periods were far outnumbered by my healthy periods. It makes sense that people can gain weight slowly over time too. Just wasn't my experience.
This also gets to how different people find different foods satiating. I overate sugary carbs (well, sugary carbs plus fat) at times when gaining weight, but that played much less of a role than food in general, likely more fat than not in that my biggest sins (don't mean this seriously) were cheese and Indian take out (and sure, that meant naan, but I'm not that into rice and the curries will have lots of fat) and restaurant meals (local places, more fine dining/farm to table or ethnic, not chains) with lots of butter and other such things. I almost always ate plenty of vegetables, I just was likely to add a little more butter or oil than necessary when cooking them (not huge amounts -- my biggest issue is that if I am not active, and I wasn't when I was gaining weight, usually, my maintenance calories aren't that high, so it's easy to go over without eating crazy if I just don't pay attention to portion size).0 -
I do agree with the majority that CI/CO is what matters for *weight loss*. You can eat anything so long as you maintain a deficit and you should lose weight.craigyallan wrote: »So here's a question.. Will you still loose weight eating roughly what you want as long as you maintain a 500 calorie deficit per day for example as this app says maintaining a 500 calorie deficit per day will result in weight loss. Or is it intact all down to the quality of food you eat.
My own personal experience is that the quality and types of foods I eat help me maintain the calorie deficit needed for CI/CO weight loss without making me miserable. There is also the simple truth that nutrition intake impacts more than weight concerns.0 -
mysteps2beauty wrote: »WorkOutMaster_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's peachy. Losing weight -- the subject of the OP's question, after all -- is still all about CICO.It's hard, at first, skipping the junk food! Then it gets easier. Finally, it's not an issue. You don't even want it, so passing it isn't difficult. You're buying stuff you like and want, so it's as easy to skip the junk as it once was to skip the produce. That's how it went for me, anyway.
Step by step! That's a nice way to look at it.
I think she was talking about her focus. Many people start out with just cutting calories, then find they get interested in eating healthier.DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's still CICO. That doesn't mean some foods aren't more satiating than others, but that wasn't the question.sunandmoons wrote: »At first it was always about CICO. Then I started watching macros with CICO. If I dont eat enough protein Im really hungry. I was eating too much sodium, fat and carbs.
So I incorperated more protien and there it was.. getting fuller quicker.. more energy no more cravings. I was at the store yesterday.. and went to the bagged candy isle out of habit.. looked at m@ms and snickers and passed right on by. I no longer crave cupcakes, donuts and candy bars or heavy ice cream..I no longer drink sodas or any calories unless its skim milk.. Im feeling really good about what I have learned and how my body reacts to what I eat.
One good step.. leads to another!
If someone wants to eat in a way she considees healthier in order to the CI under CO, that's great for her but extraneous to the question.
There is no need to be rude. This is why people dont speak in THIS forum. Too many think they can dominate just because you created your own goal. Good for you. It still doesnt mean you can attack a positive post.
Yes its is about CI/CO. The rest will follow. Good on you two.
+1
+1 - 1 = 0 No one was rude.0
This discussion has been closed.
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