Article of a Women's Journey With Anorexia and Orthorexia that Almost Killed Her
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I try to help. But if anyone succeeded, it was their doing and not mine.
Excessive with the "clean" and not necessarily using that word. There are all manner of self-imposed rules designed to create a sense of control. Control is a huge part of these EDs for many people. Some create many, many rules about what they can eat, when they can eat, how, where, etc.
A person who is prone to that particular type of mental illness is likely to set up rigid rules and seriously restrict their calories. They don't all have rules, but it's not uncommon.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I think it's maybe that vulnerable people who diet can fall into an ED? Last time I read about this, perfectionist daughters (often from affluent families as well), particularly those who have mothers with body image issues, and take on a diet , are the prototypical ED sufferer. I think any restrictive diet (including one that only restricts calories) could trigger it in someone vulnerable enough.
Dieting doesn't make a healthy person anorexic. Eating healthy food doesn't make a healthy person orthorexic. Exercising doesn't make a healthy person bulimic. Lifting weights doesn't make a person develop muscle dysmorphia.
Most people can eat healthy, lose weight, lift weights and exercise without developing a mental illness.
Right, that's what I read. Dieting can be a trigger, though, in someone vulnerable.
(Is there some misunderstanding? I've never had an ED - by "rules" I meant your typical "clean eating" rules that get thrown around and are basically good sense for most people imo.)
I'm glad that more people are open to the idea that it's more about control and obsessiveness than it is about weight and food. It's becoming more the standard that the, "Hmmm, wonder if there is any truth to that?" idea.
I'll be even happier when they remove that picture (of the skinny seeing an obese one in the mirror) from the textbooks, lol. It's still there! I just got a book that came out this year with that pic in it. They're obsessive, not delusional. They don't think they're obese. They just think that the itty bitty bit of fat on their body must go.
I've been lucky enough to work long-term care with anorexics, so I got to chat with them at follow-ups six and twelve months after they began recovery. I listen and I hear and I remember. I ask questions. I believe people when they talk about their struggles.
But I've never had an ED and never suffered or had to fight through the hell myself.
I pray for every one of those girls every night of my life.
Dieting can trigger. I'm in the "Once an anorexic, always an anorexic!" camp that thinks dieting must be approached with caution for life. Many former anorexics agree, but some don't.
I think it's as much a trigger as booze is for the alcoholic, BUT not everyone agrees. I could be wrong.
I bet you've helped a lot of them
Re obsession vs. delusion - is this also true for someone who's gotten to quite a critical stage? I know there might be some general cognitive impairments at that point, but e.g. thinking of some of the people who've gotten media attention for their illness (ordinary people who got famous because of being so very ill, not celebrities who became ill while famous), it's hard to imagine some kind of delusion not being part of it
It seems very difficult, indeed.
(I've only read about EDs; I know someone who struggled with bulimia, but that's it.)
Most anorexics have Body Dysmorphic Disorder and don't really see how sickly they look. They're too focused on the tiny bit of fat (the thing keeping them alive that they believe needs to go and go now!) to see how deathly thin they've become. They do not, however, see themselves as obese. Not one single person ever thought they were obese. Even in as deep a denial as they might go, if you asked them if they were obese, they would say that they weren't.
That picture needs to go. It gives anorexics the idea that the experts don't understand them. It gives healthy people the idea that anorexics are delusional. It serves no good purpose. They will get rid of it some day.
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Who's cutting onions in here?
*sniff* I'm glad that she had help and support!0 -
Focusing on quality food can greatly help people who aren't vulnerable to EDs to improve their nutrition (and health) and diet adherence, because eating that way promotes satiety, for many.
Food "rules" relating to quality (protein, veg, dairy, nuts, beans, whole grains, some fruit) definitely helped me simplify my approach to food prep and cooking, and it kept me on track. (As in 80% on track. I'm not at risk of ever eating too little or having complex feels about McDonald's. My gain was mostly related to eating out all the time instead of cooking, and not really thinking about the portion sizes.)
Needs2Exercise made a great point about this recently, though. The nutrition guidelines talk in terms of reducing or limiting certain foods or increasing others. NOT about eliminating as being necessary to nutrition. If people start thinking that eating ANY of particular foods is unhealthy, that may mean it's not really about nutrition, but some stigma they have attached to the food--which IMO could be a negative sign, although it's not always.
This is why I think shifting the discussion to actual nutrition concerns is never a bad idea.0 -
We had an interesting thread on Orthorexia a while back.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10185722/orthorexia/0 -
If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I think it's maybe that vulnerable people who diet can fall into an ED? Last time I read about this, perfectionist daughters (often from affluent families as well), particularly those who have mothers with body image issues, and take on a diet , are the prototypical ED sufferer. I think any restrictive diet (including one that only restricts calories) could trigger it in someone vulnerable enough.
Geez, you just described my best friend from high school perfectly. The sad thing is, her treatment taught her that nothing was her fault, "her mother made her that way." We ended up parting ways and it broke my heart but there was nothing I could do, it was her choice. I did run into her a few years ago though, she was at a healthy weight, married, with two kids. It was good to see that she was one of the ones who made it.
Sorry to hear your friend suffered from this, and glad she's ok now.
Yeah, that is the profile, based on studies. For anorexia nervosa. I think it's slightly different for bulimia (can't exactly recall that one as neatly).
This is an internet forum about diet and no one should be seeking help about a mental health issue from a crowd-sourced, rarely moderated group.
Disordered eating is not the same as AN or even Bulimia - can the mods please handle these posts?
? Is anyone looking for help on here about an ED?
shell1005 posited that the clean eating diet was an important factor in the development of this person's ED
I argued that it was probably predisposing factors, which the author talked about
I later talked about how useful "clean eating" was for me, because I am NOT vulnerable
No one in this thread has asked for help with an ED
I don't think @shell1005 made any assumptions about "clean eating" itself having any causal factor to people developing orthorexia. I think it's disingenuous to try to make it out as though she was pointing the finger at clean eating when the OP clearly states otherwise.
From what I understand about eating disorders, backed up by this woman's particular experience, it is often times about control. Using clean eating to control all aspects of your life is the problem, not clean eating itself.0 -
Great post !0
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Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
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Interesting article, thanks! I'm meeting more and more people who really are taking healthy food deal WAY over the edge.
So this article reminds me..........probably dealing with an eating disorder.0 -
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JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have0 -
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JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I'm just trying to avoid a divisive topic, which someone being a bad parent or not tends to be. That's all. Sorry I tried to do that. I will avoid it in the future.
As for the genetic component, it's one of those chicken and the egg things. It's probably not just one or the other, but both. My professional spidey sense tends to lean towards learned behavior. I think the part about watching her father order lunch kind of supports that thought. I know that many of my dysfunctional patterns when it comes to food tend to be more related to learned and observed behavior. However, there also might be genetic components, but I would hypothesize that they aren't as strong an influence. We'd need those twins studies for that though.
I was just reading an article about this (your link made me curious), and I definitely think I agree with you that it's probably a little of both. Studies haven't been able to show one way or the other. I have a sister with bipolar disorder, so I absolutely understand that some 'mental' things are genetic... But our children definitely learn from us - that's why we try to model good behavior for them, right? If we're agreeing that it's both, I wonder how much of each factors in... or if it's different in each case. Looks like I found something to research this afternoon... (I was looking for a reason to avoid adulting anyway)...
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety... Fuel for my researching fire. Maybe it's a combination of learned behavior and anxiety/stress showing up in that way. I know that sometimes when I'm feeling out of control, I tend to try to 'control' little things. Maybe it's the same thing with eating disorders (just way worse than anything I've ever experienced)? The author of the article was in school, and her disorder seemed to start when she went abroad... When things became 'out of the ordinary' for her... So maybe ED is a symptom of anxiety?
I will fully admit I know almost nothing about this topic... Off to research.0 -
Before there was a word for this, I knew someone that I could totally tell had disordered eating. She was a strict vegetarian who also refused to eat things starting with certain letters. (She said the second part like it was a joke, but if you spent any time around her you learned it was real.). After each child she was a strict breast feeder, and would claim that each child had sensitivities to different foods and cut them out of her diet and didn't reintroduce them when the children weaned. This was before orthorexia was considered to be real, so she just hid behind the label of vegetarian.
Eventually she ended up in treatment. I don't know what is going on now as I lost contact.0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I'm just trying to avoid a divisive topic, which someone being a bad parent or not tends to be. That's all. Sorry I tried to do that. I will avoid it in the future.
As for the genetic component, it's one of those chicken and the egg things. It's probably not just one or the other, but both. My professional spidey sense tends to lean towards learned behavior. I think the part about watching her father order lunch kind of supports that thought. I know that many of my dysfunctional patterns when it comes to food tend to be more related to learned and observed behavior. However, there also might be genetic components, but I would hypothesize that they aren't as strong an influence. We'd need those twins studies for that though.
I was just reading an article about this (your link made me curious), and I definitely think I agree with you that it's probably a little of both. Studies haven't been able to show one way or the other. I have a sister with bipolar disorder, so I absolutely understand that some 'mental' things are genetic... But our children definitely learn from us - that's why we try to model good behavior for them, right? If we're agreeing that it's both, I wonder how much of each factors in... or if it's different in each case. Looks like I found something to research this afternoon... (I was looking for a reason to avoid adulting anyway)...JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety... Fuel for my researching fire. Maybe it's a combination of learned behavior and anxiety/stress showing up in that way. I know that sometimes when I'm feeling out of control, I tend to try to 'control' little things. Maybe it's the same thing with eating disorders (just way worse than anything I've ever experienced)? The author of the article was in school, and her disorder seemed to start when she went abroad... When things became 'out of the ordinary' for her... So maybe ED is a symptom of anxiety?
I will fully admit I know almost nothing about this topic... Off to research.
I've found it is much less of a nature v. nurture thing and more of a nature AND nurture. It makes things not fit into a box, but is interesting to say the least.0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I've read some stuff that argues for genetic predisposition (as at least one important part) and likely related to some other disorders. (The book I'm mostly thinking of is Decoding Anorexia, by Carrie Arnold.)0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
With all due respect, I disagre that parenting is on topic in this conversation. It's about the girl's journey to health, including the realization that her dad had disordered eating patterns and got help as well.0 -
Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
I think it does point to a need for parents to work towards and model self-acceptance re body image, though.0 -
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.0 -
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Again taking myself as an example - like I said, having guidelines for eating well like I described earlier was * helpful*. I was able to manage it 80% of the time, and didn't get worried if some days it was more like 60% or even 40%. I did aim for consistency, but moving away from that didn't cause *distress*.0
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.
Maybe so, maybe not.
It's a googleable question, probably. Or we could ask Kalikel what kinds of diets were common among her patients, for an idea.0 -
This content has been removed.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.
Maybe so, maybe not.
It's a googleable question, probably. Or we could ask Kalikel what kinds of diets were common among her patients, for an idea.
I'd rather not ask someone to share anything specific about work they did with clients. It's something that I consider a professional no no.
I've worked within the population and I do think diets full of rigidity can be problematic to those who may be more inclined.
She could talk about *trends* without discussing the patients themselves.
Did your patients all start with "clean eating"?0
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