Article of a Women's Journey With Anorexia and Orthorexia that Almost Killed Her
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JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I'm just trying to avoid a divisive topic, which someone being a bad parent or not tends to be. That's all. Sorry I tried to do that. I will avoid it in the future.
As for the genetic component, it's one of those chicken and the egg things. It's probably not just one or the other, but both. My professional spidey sense tends to lean towards learned behavior. I think the part about watching her father order lunch kind of supports that thought. I know that many of my dysfunctional patterns when it comes to food tend to be more related to learned and observed behavior. However, there also might be genetic components, but I would hypothesize that they aren't as strong an influence. We'd need those twins studies for that though.
I was just reading an article about this (your link made me curious), and I definitely think I agree with you that it's probably a little of both. Studies haven't been able to show one way or the other. I have a sister with bipolar disorder, so I absolutely understand that some 'mental' things are genetic... But our children definitely learn from us - that's why we try to model good behavior for them, right? If we're agreeing that it's both, I wonder how much of each factors in... or if it's different in each case. Looks like I found something to research this afternoon... (I was looking for a reason to avoid adulting anyway)...
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety... Fuel for my researching fire. Maybe it's a combination of learned behavior and anxiety/stress showing up in that way. I know that sometimes when I'm feeling out of control, I tend to try to 'control' little things. Maybe it's the same thing with eating disorders (just way worse than anything I've ever experienced)? The author of the article was in school, and her disorder seemed to start when she went abroad... When things became 'out of the ordinary' for her... So maybe ED is a symptom of anxiety?
I will fully admit I know almost nothing about this topic... Off to research.0 -
Before there was a word for this, I knew someone that I could totally tell had disordered eating. She was a strict vegetarian who also refused to eat things starting with certain letters. (She said the second part like it was a joke, but if you spent any time around her you learned it was real.). After each child she was a strict breast feeder, and would claim that each child had sensitivities to different foods and cut them out of her diet and didn't reintroduce them when the children weaned. This was before orthorexia was considered to be real, so she just hid behind the label of vegetarian.
Eventually she ended up in treatment. I don't know what is going on now as I lost contact.0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I'm just trying to avoid a divisive topic, which someone being a bad parent or not tends to be. That's all. Sorry I tried to do that. I will avoid it in the future.
As for the genetic component, it's one of those chicken and the egg things. It's probably not just one or the other, but both. My professional spidey sense tends to lean towards learned behavior. I think the part about watching her father order lunch kind of supports that thought. I know that many of my dysfunctional patterns when it comes to food tend to be more related to learned and observed behavior. However, there also might be genetic components, but I would hypothesize that they aren't as strong an influence. We'd need those twins studies for that though.
I was just reading an article about this (your link made me curious), and I definitely think I agree with you that it's probably a little of both. Studies haven't been able to show one way or the other. I have a sister with bipolar disorder, so I absolutely understand that some 'mental' things are genetic... But our children definitely learn from us - that's why we try to model good behavior for them, right? If we're agreeing that it's both, I wonder how much of each factors in... or if it's different in each case. Looks like I found something to research this afternoon... (I was looking for a reason to avoid adulting anyway)...JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I think it's more about little girls picking up on multiple cues about body hatred from Mom, or that's what I've read. Also watching and sometimes being asked to conform to dietary restrictions
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety in general is I think more likely to be inherited in the way you mean
If EDs were heritable in that way, they wouldn't be particular to affluent countries with crazy body standards like we have
Temperamental inclination towards anxiety... Fuel for my researching fire. Maybe it's a combination of learned behavior and anxiety/stress showing up in that way. I know that sometimes when I'm feeling out of control, I tend to try to 'control' little things. Maybe it's the same thing with eating disorders (just way worse than anything I've ever experienced)? The author of the article was in school, and her disorder seemed to start when she went abroad... When things became 'out of the ordinary' for her... So maybe ED is a symptom of anxiety?
I will fully admit I know almost nothing about this topic... Off to research.
I've found it is much less of a nature v. nurture thing and more of a nature AND nurture. It makes things not fit into a box, but is interesting to say the least.0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
I know you are a moderator, so what you say goes, but I disagree there. I think talking about these specific parents and how they were a part of her journey both of sickness and in health is definitely on topic.
What I considered divisive and not on topic was the talk of people being good or bad parents in these situations. It puts a judgment on the type of parenting that I didn't want to see this thread get derailed with. I saw no need to place a value or judgment on the parenting that either of these parents did...or anyone other parent in a similar situation. Those conversations take a thread off track and tend to go bad places, so as the OP I made a request. But what do I know.
Did you only want to discuss the actual article and not the ideas presented by the article? No judgements about the ideas? It seems any thread that was limited in such a way would be pretty darn short lived.
The article that was linked speaks about predisposition for eating disorders running in families. I didn't know that and I think it's really interesting. I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition or if it is a learned behavior...
I've read some stuff that argues for genetic predisposition (as at least one important part) and likely related to some other disorders. (The book I'm mostly thinking of is Decoding Anorexia, by Carrie Arnold.)0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »Yeah, made me a little teary eyed too... Or maybe just fumes from the ghost-pepper I just cut up and put in my chili? Anyway, thanks for sharing, shell.If we could get back on topic and stop talking about parenting, thanks. It's a divisive topic and I'd appreciate my thread not going down that road.
And the article actually highlighted that those who eat healthy with stringent and rigid rules can turn into orthorexia, etc. Right there in the beginning from the mouth of the woman who experienced it. Is it common, no...but it is something that can happen. The idea of everything having to fit into such a rigid criteria for what constitutes healthy can lead to a really bad place.
I actually thought the parenting in cases of folks with eating disorders was right on topic. Her mom rocks, in this scenario (totally way to go there), and the article did mention the fact that her father was diagnosed with Orthorexia as well. This family has an amazing story, and I"m glad they all came through it and got the help they need.
With all due respect, I disagre that parenting is on topic in this conversation. It's about the girl's journey to health, including the realization that her dad had disordered eating patterns and got help as well.0 -
Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
I think it does point to a need for parents to work towards and model self-acceptance re body image, though.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.0 -
Again taking myself as an example - like I said, having guidelines for eating well like I described earlier was * helpful*. I was able to manage it 80% of the time, and didn't get worried if some days it was more like 60% or even 40%. I did aim for consistency, but moving away from that didn't cause *distress*.0
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.
Maybe so, maybe not.
It's a googleable question, probably. Or we could ask Kalikel what kinds of diets were common among her patients, for an idea.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Fabulous thread, shelley! Thanks for starting it.
Another one who thinks that allowing the thread to devolve into a debate over "good" parenting versus "bad" parenting would NOT have been the message to be gotten out of this very informative article, nor the reason the OP posted it to begin with.
Thank you.
I thought this article was really poignant and interesting.
I also think it shows that sometimes there is a great divide between "healthy eating" and disordered eating patterns and sometimes the differences are so small that we can no longer differentiate.
I can't agree
Arguably *any* dieter's preoccupation with food (quantity or quality) , especially in the beginning of weight loss, could look concerning. Beginning losers often spend a LOT of time thinking about food & planning meals, and being anxious about going over, seeing losses, eating among others in uncontrolled situations. The difference between that and an eating disorder might be small, I grant you. And that applies to anyone on any kind of diet.
But for someone who's not vulnerable, that is just a learning curve. Once you find a groove, and especially into maintenance, there's a lot less anxiety, preoccupation, time spent thinking about food etc.
The paradox is that we have a *culture* with a disordered relationship with food, an obesogenic culture. Anyone eating for health and healthy weight is going to be at odds with it and experience some strain.
You are right, we don't agree.
For most, an obsession with healthy eating will not turn into an eating disorder, however I still think the rigidity of it can be problematic. This woman seemed predisposed due to her perfectionistic/obsessive nature. The article made that clear. However the line sometimes is not so cut and dry. I think there is value in recognizing that.
But it's the same for being rigid about calories and amounts. There are people who count peas on their plate ("no more than 10") or will have no more than three bites of any food. It doesn't matter what the diet is, it's the fact of restriction and the rigid *approach* itself.
Maybe so, maybe not.
It's a googleable question, probably. Or we could ask Kalikel what kinds of diets were common among her patients, for an idea.
I'd rather not ask someone to share anything specific about work they did with clients. It's something that I consider a professional no no.
I've worked within the population and I do think diets full of rigidity can be problematic to those who may be more inclined.
She could talk about *trends* without discussing the patients themselves.
Did your patients all start with "clean eating"?0
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