Women, Muscles, and "Bulk:" A historical perspective

lithezebra

As a farmer - women that cant lift at least one 50lb feed sack at at time = pointless.

Sure, if you're hiring women to lift your feed sacks.

Traditionally, on a farm, the wife helps the husband do at least some of the work. Small family farms require that everyone work to keep them running. I know a lot of farm wives that can haul feed sacks and hay bales like it's nothing.

I'm aware of that. I'm suggesting that women who can't lift 50 pound feed sacks are not pointless, unless the only reason for having someone around is lifting those sacks.

You mean there's other reasons to keep teh womens around?

For some people. Of course, YMMV.

allisonrinkel

I love vintage muscle women pictures:

These two were stolen from a facebook page I follow:

Ivy Russell 1930s


Abbye "Pudgy" Stockton


From the Venus with Biceps book: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/11/venus-with-biceps-a-history-of-muscular-women-in-pictures/248820/

AWESOME!! They have muscles, but they're not roided up and freakish!

allisonrinkel

<- I'm still fluffy but lifting heavy has gotten me these arms and even a new boyfriend!! I do find it fun though to lift a 40lb bag of cat litter at Petsmart and carry it around like it was nothing. It's a great empowering feeling women!!

You rock girl!

neandermagnon

I'm a climber, and I have a friend that purposefully doesn't climb on harder stuff because she is afraid she's going to get "bulky". She purposefully dampers her climbing ability because of what the boys will think of her.

I say she's missing out on improving in a very fun sport, all because of stupid social stigma that isn't even true. sheesh. I'm so sick of females not living up to the best of their abilities because of what some insecure boys will think!

this is really sad hope she learns to view other people's insecurity for what it is and goes on to fulfill all her potential in the face of everyone who'd try to bring her down to their level...

Everyone likes dainty little women who lift heavy and get strong, however women who really have heavier, stronger builds can have a tough time. Not wanting to get bulky sometimes means "I already have 140 pounds of lean body mass, and I'm 5'2"."

I have a very large frame and I'm naturally muscular. And I'm short, so that makes me look that much larger framed. My lean body mass is greater than the entire weight of quite a few healthy women of my height. (LBM:102lb, total weight 133lb, height 5'1", BMI healthy weight range for my height: 100-132.)

Honestly my genetics are probably as good as it gets for being able to get really strong, and I'm not getting "bulky" - gaining muscle is NOT easy. I've been eating at a surplus and doing a beginner's program for strength gains and I've gained maybe 1lb of lean mass altogether so far in 7 weeks, and that would be noob gains, so it's unlikely I'll carry on gaining lean mass at that rate for much longer. During that time I've taken my deadlift from 88lb to 170lb so far (my current working weight, I don't know my 1RM) and my squat from around 80lb to 120lb so far (also my current working weight) yet I've only gained 1lb lean mass (if that), and like I said, I was eating at a surplus. I really don't think I would have gained any lean mass at all eating at maintenance or at a deficit. It really is difficult enough gaining muscle when eating at a surplus and training really heavy and doing everything right.... it *won't* happen by accident!!

Some people probably think I'm bulky the way I am right now.... well that's just my natural shape from the genetics I was born with, and you know what.... not lifting isn't going to change my frame size. So those same people would still consider me to look bulky and/or manly even if I didn't lift weights. I'm not going to magically turn into a small framed person by not lifting weights.

MrsWells1983

As a farmer - women that cant lift at least one 50lb feed sack at at time = pointless.

I'm a farmer's wife and I think my husband would probably agree with you.... LOL

SteveJWatson

As a farmer - women that cant lift at least one 50lb feed sack at at time = pointless.

Sure, if you're hiring women to lift your feed sacks.

Traditionally, on a farm, the wife helps the husband do at least some of the work. Small family farms require that everyone work to keep them running. I know a lot of farm wives that can haul feed sacks and hay bales like it's nothing.

I'm aware of that. I'm suggesting that women who can't lift 50 pound feed sacks are not pointless, unless the only reason for having someone around is lifting those sacks.

Of course - they need to be able to breed you more 'farm workers' and not be squeamish about muckng out/calvling/lambing etc.

Ability to drive a tractor also a bonus.

You're welcome. :drinker:

lithezebra

I'm a climber, and I have a friend that purposefully doesn't climb on harder stuff because she is afraid she's going to get "bulky". She purposefully dampers her climbing ability because of what the boys will think of her.

I say she's missing out on improving in a very fun sport, all because of stupid social stigma that isn't even true. sheesh. I'm so sick of females not living up to the best of their abilities because of what some insecure boys will think!

this is really sad hope she learns to view other people's insecurity for what it is and goes on to fulfill all her potential in the face of everyone who'd try to bring her down to their level...

Everyone likes dainty little women who lift heavy and get strong, however women who really have heavier, stronger builds can have a tough time. Not wanting to get bulky sometimes means "I already have 140 pounds of lean body mass, and I'm 5'2"."

I have a very large frame and I'm naturally muscular. And I'm short, so that makes me look that much larger framed. My lean body mass is greater than the entire weight of quite a few healthy women of my height. (LBM:102lb, total weight 133lb, height 5'1", BMI healthy weight range for my height: 100-132.)

Honestly my genetics are probably as good as it gets for being able to get really strong, and I'm not getting "bulky" - gaining muscle is NOT easy. I've been eating at a surplus and doing a beginner's program for strength gains and I've gained maybe 1lb of lean mass altogether so far in 7 weeks, and that would be noob gains, so it's unlikely I'll carry on gaining lean mass at that rate for much longer. During that time I've taken my deadlift from 88lb to 170lb so far (my current working weight, I don't know my 1RM) and my squat from around 80lb to 120lb so far (also my current working weight) yet I've only gained 1lb lean mass (if that), and like I said, I was eating at a surplus. I really don't think I would have gained any lean mass at all eating at maintenance or at a deficit. It really is difficult enough gaining muscle when eating at a surplus and training really heavy and doing everything right.... it *won't* happen by accident!!

Some people probably think I'm bulky the way I am right now.... well that's just my natural shape from the genetics I was born with, and you know what.... not lifting isn't going to change my frame size. So those same people would still consider me to look bulky and/or manly even if I didn't lift weights. I'm not going to magically turn into a small framed person by not lifting weights.

You're taking the awesome approach. At the same time, there is a lot of contradictory information out there, including trainers who insist that women can increase muscle size, usually the size of their glutes. If glutes can get larger, and I'm not saying that they can, only that there are trainers who make such a claim, so can obliques, lats, and traps. Women who don't want to get any bigger could be understandably concerned.

neandermagnon

I'm a climber, and I have a friend that purposefully doesn't climb on harder stuff because she is afraid she's going to get "bulky". She purposefully dampers her climbing ability because of what the boys will think of her.

I say she's missing out on improving in a very fun sport, all because of stupid social stigma that isn't even true. sheesh. I'm so sick of females not living up to the best of their abilities because of what some insecure boys will think!

this is really sad hope she learns to view other people's insecurity for what it is and goes on to fulfill all her potential in the face of everyone who'd try to bring her down to their level...

Everyone likes dainty little women who lift heavy and get strong, however women who really have heavier, stronger builds can have a tough time. Not wanting to get bulky sometimes means "I already have 140 pounds of lean body mass, and I'm 5'2"."

I have a very large frame and I'm naturally muscular. And I'm short, so that makes me look that much larger framed. My lean body mass is greater than the entire weight of quite a few healthy women of my height. (LBM:102lb, total weight 133lb, height 5'1", BMI healthy weight range for my height: 100-132.)

Honestly my genetics are probably as good as it gets for being able to get really strong, and I'm not getting "bulky" - gaining muscle is NOT easy. I've been eating at a surplus and doing a beginner's program for strength gains and I've gained maybe 1lb of lean mass altogether so far in 7 weeks, and that would be noob gains, so it's unlikely I'll carry on gaining lean mass at that rate for much longer. During that time I've taken my deadlift from 88lb to 170lb so far (my current working weight, I don't know my 1RM) and my squat from around 80lb to 120lb so far (also my current working weight) yet I've only gained 1lb lean mass (if that), and like I said, I was eating at a surplus. I really don't think I would have gained any lean mass at all eating at maintenance or at a deficit. It really is difficult enough gaining muscle when eating at a surplus and training really heavy and doing everything right.... it *won't* happen by accident!!

Some people probably think I'm bulky the way I am right now.... well that's just my natural shape from the genetics I was born with, and you know what.... not lifting isn't going to change my frame size. So those same people would still consider me to look bulky and/or manly even if I didn't lift weights. I'm not going to magically turn into a small framed person by not lifting weights.

You're taking the awesome approach. At the same time, there is a lot of contradictory information out there, including trainers who insist that women can increase muscle size, usually the size of their glutes. If glutes can get larger, and I'm not saying that they can, only that there are trainers who make such a claim, so can obliques, lats, and traps. Women who don't want to get any bigger could be understandably concerned.

yes I agree, re contradictory information, also myths and misunderstanding about human physiology

women can gain muscle, very slowly, through eating at a surplus and training very hard, but it's really difficult, and it won't happen eating at a deficit, and it won't happen by accident. Women who weight train and eat at a deficit end up getting smaller due to losing fat while maintaining what muscle they have. So women who don't want their muscles to get bigger, the advice is simple: don't eat more than you burn off (or eat less than you burn off if you also have fat to lose).

Also, a lot of women see their muscles get a "pump" after a good workout, and think that the muscles have grown, and think that every workout they do will see the same growth.... but a "pump" is just where the muscles can look temporarily a bit bigger due to more blood flow, and also water retention which is a normal part of the repair/rebuilding that goes on in the muscles after exercise. IMO this is the main cause of women thinking that they gain muscle really easily, and/or are gaining muscle in spite of eating at a deficit.

Weight training can improve the shape of the muscles, even if they don't get bigger, so you can end up with perkier glute muscles, more shapely thighs etc, by doing squats even if you eat at a deficit... but at a deficit you won't be growing any new muscle, you need a surplus for that. This improvement in shape is what most women want, and why so many advise weight training. And yes I can see how this whole issue is very confusing, which is probably why there's so much discussion about it, because of the myths that need to be dispelled. Most women want the body improvements that you can get from lifting weights while eating at maintenance or a deficit, so if they're not doing that because of a belief they have that isn't true, then the belief needs to be challenged.

LorinaLynn

women can gain muscle, very slowly, through eating at a surplus and training very hard, but it's really difficult, and it won't happen eating at a deficit, and it won't happen by accident.

This needs to be repeated a billion times.

This might illustrate what "increased muscle mass" looks like.

In the first picture, I was 25 years old, and about 115 pounds. I have no clue what my bf% was, but assuming 20%, that would put my lean mass at 92 pounds.

In the second pic, taken last winter at 40 years old, I was about 135 pounds, and around 20% body fat, so my lean mass is about 108 pounds.



So that's 15 years later, 20 more pounds of body weight and 16 more pounds of lean mass, and I fit into the same swimsuit. My arms and legs are a little bit bigger. Personally, I think they look a lot bit better, but it really hasn't done all THAT much to my overall size.

kevinjb1

Love all you fit ladies :drinker: