Isagenix, Science or Woo?
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"Where we disagree on is the actual approach to weight loss. You believe in a product, I believe in habitual behavior change." No, I do agree with you, it's just most people won't do it your way. This and WW, Nutrisystem, ect, best practice or not offer a way that more people will do, try, ect.
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You need to read this.... And send it to those two pushers also... In little time they will have no friends, extra stock, and still be broke.
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a57469612/spoons4lyfe_hate_mlms_youll_love_us?cpg=935
Start on page 1. The little black I think goes to the last page.0 -
Expat, no wraps at Isagenix. I never cared for that concept, personally speaking.0
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There are no toxins in the body. Ingesting something to the point of "toxicity" can happen, but the body doesn't manufacture nor store toxins.queenliz99 wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Reading through the posts, it appears that many good points were made. Going back to the original point of science or not, it really depends on if you believe the science behind whey protein.
Isagenix, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and many others all work (for the majority) if you stick to the program. Is calorie restriction a part of each one? yes. It becomes a personal preference as to what you want to substitute in place of more and "bad" calories.
Isagenix relies (personal observation) mostly on whey protein studies, with a "match and replace" meal substitution plan, that in theory gives you most daily essentials through their shakes, snacks and weekly cleanses. Fyi, the cleanses are not "poop" cleanses, they are cellular in nature. Theory, clear toxins from cells and replace with "good stuff" from program.
Have I seen it work, yes. Have I seen people gain weight back, yes. Have I seen people keep the weight off, yes. Most of the difference is staying on the Isagenix maintenance system or some other "good habit" system, not to go back to the old habits that caused and maintained the old weight level.
Full disclosure, as you might have guessed, I am an Isagenix associate. Whether you agree with network marketing or not is not a reason to dislike a product. Either a product can help some/most people or not. In this instance, I have seen it help a reasonable amount of people first hand, but not all. Different things work for different people. If you like your meal replacement and it can help with a reduction of weight and a build up of lean muscle mass, it will work for you, either short term or long term. If you like a different one, or a different approach, that will most likely work too. Commitment is really the key in all of the systems.
Costs. As with most network marketing companies, the costs appear a little high. Most of the time there is no exact product on the "open market" to compare it with. A 30 day program is about $10 per day. The maintenance program is about $3-4 per day. A little pricey, but if you are truly substituting meals for their system it may not seem as bad, and could actually save you money per day depending on your current meal costs.
Network marketing in general: there are some good companies and some really bad ones that give the industry the reputation that it has with most people. Some big supporters: Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some other famous business authors and entrepreneurs. Some big opponents: David Ackerman, some AG's and FDA if wrongful claims are made about products. Those that are against it are very fanatical against it, as well as those that are for it can act as if they are in a cult. Like everything, it's a personal preference. Not all/not the majority can succeed in this industry, just as they all or most won't succeed in a different industry. Some people are good at certain things and others excel at other things. Lucky for all of us that we have such diversity in all fields.
Okay. Can you please explain in detail as to what 'toxins' are removed from the cell and what "good stuff" is put in!
It's woo, don't believe it. Isagenix wants to believe you have toxins lurking about in your body, it's their business plan. Your liver and kidneys are filters. all your body needs.
Oh no! No way I am buying any of it. I was very curious to know how it cleared toxins out of cell
. Human bodies are quite capable of removing toxins and free radicals and oxidants out of the system, very effectively! If it wasn't we would be in grave danger. There is absolutely no need for any 'cleanser' to 'gently aid in removing toxins'.
What is a toxin?
noun
1.
any poison produced by an organism, characterized by antigenicity in certain animals and high molecular weight, and including the bacterial toxins that are the causative agents of tetanus, diphtheria, etc., and such plant and animal toxins as ricin and snake venom.
Toxic poisoning is treated with medical help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Destiny4_four wrote: »Niner, there are many definitions of toxins I guess. Senecarr not sure about MJ, lol though. Niner:
A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] synthetic toxicants created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919).[3]
Toxins can be small molecules, peptides, or proteins that are capable of causing disease on contact with or absorption by body tissues interacting with biological macromolecules such as enzymes or cellular receptors. Toxins vary greatly in their severity, ranging from usually minor (such as a bee sting) to almost immediately deadly (such as botulinum toxin).
http://www.everydayhealth.com/news/charges-filed-against-makers-nutritional-supplements/?xid=aol_eh-news_12_20151116_&aolcat=HLT
So basically ingesting Isagenix, isn't removing toxins from the body but is most likely, adding them!0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Hornsby, I have witnessed the results. Do you have different information or just generalizing?
I'm not talking about results. All diet plans will work if they create a deficit. I am talking about the false claims from the product. Toxins/free radicals and what not. I realize you believe this stuff but unfortunately for you, you have the right to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Obviously you have your opinion also, just not sure what you means "not your own facts" Do you have different facts?
Simply put the product doesn't give you anything but an opinion. It is not a fact it can free radicals. Seriously? Do you really understand what you are even discussing? As for the product, I think it is great you witness the benefits. Unfortunately the people I know who sell it are either gaining their weight back/really do not understand what they are saying/ or both.
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Destiny4_four wrote: »"Where we disagree on is the actual approach to weight loss. You believe in a product, I believe in habitual behavior change." No, I do agree with you, it's just most people won't do it your way. This and WW, Nutrisystem, ect, best practice or not offer a way that more people will do, try, ect.
Here's another problem with Isagenix, Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem, WW, etc., yeah they're losing weight but not only, do they not keep it off; they gain more than when they began. How is a product that helps someone lose 20 pounds, only to have then gain an additional 10 pounds over what they've lost 5 times; a solution? Wouldn't it be better, to just let that person remain 20 pounds overweight; than for them to become 250 pounds overweight?0 -
Monday, goes to my point of good and bad companies. What those companies did is unforgivable. You don't see Isagenix in there. Those companies were guilty of misleading.0
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Monday, no matter the system or the healthy eating, if people revert back to their bad habits does that mean that nothing works?0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Monday, no matter the system or the healthy eating, if people revert back to their bad habits does that mean that nothing works?
What works is sustainable changes. Buying a product for life is not a sustainable change. They wish!0 -
Terrapin, not to get into a science lesson but (plenty of net info out there):
"It is not a fact it can free radicals. Seriously? Do you really understand what you are even discussing?"
Undaunted, Dr. Harmon pursued his theory. In subsequent years, he demonstrated how the effects of free radicals are reversed by nutrients known as antioxidants, how antioxidants extend the life spans of laboratory animals, and how antioxidants offer protection against heart disease, cancer, senile brain disease, and all other degenerative conditions associated with aging. Dr. Harmon proved that age-related immune deficiency is caused by free radicals and can be reversed by antioxidants.
In terms of scientific significance, Dr. Harmon's Free Radical Theory ranks with Galileo's invention of the telescope, Newton's discovery of gravity, and Einstein's theory of relativity. No breakthrough has had more profound implications for human health and longevity.
Now in his mid-eighties and still professionally active, Dr. Harmon deserves the Nobel Prize for his revolutionary work.
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blankiefinder wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Monday, no matter the system or the healthy eating, if people revert back to their bad habits does that mean that nothing works?
What works is sustainable changes. Buying a product for life is not a sustainable change. They wish!
Sustainable changes are habits. They're free.
Isagenix? Notsomuch.0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Monday, no matter the system or the healthy eating, if people revert back to their bad habits does that mean that nothing works?
What works is sustainable changes. Buying a product for life is not a sustainable change. They wish!
I agree, but to my point, make a healthy eating change for only a month or two, and revert back to old habits thereafter and the weight gain surely increases.
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Peachy, I agree 100%:
Sustainable changes are habits. They're free.
Isagenix? Notsomuch.0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Terrapin, not to get into a science lesson but (plenty of net info out there):
"It is not a fact it can free radicals. Seriously? Do you really understand what you are even discussing?"
Undaunted, Dr. Harmon pursued his theory. In subsequent years, he demonstrated how the effects of free radicals are reversed by nutrients known as antioxidants, how antioxidants extend the life spans of laboratory animals, and how antioxidants offer protection against heart disease, cancer, senile brain disease, and all other degenerative conditions associated with aging. Dr. Harmon proved that age-related immune deficiency is caused by free radicals and can be reversed by antioxidants.
In terms of scientific significance, Dr. Harmon's Free Radical Theory ranks with Galileo's invention of the telescope, Newton's discovery of gravity, and Einstein's theory of relativity. No breakthrough has had more profound implications for human health and longevity.
Now in his mid-eighties and still professionally active, Dr. Harmon deserves the Nobel Prize for his revolutionary work.
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Terrapin, not to get into a science lesson but (plenty of net info out there):
"It is not a fact it can free radicals. Seriously? Do you really understand what you are even discussing?"
Undaunted, Dr. Harmon pursued his theory. In subsequent years, he demonstrated how the effects of free radicals are reversed by nutrients known as antioxidants, how antioxidants extend the life spans of laboratory animals, and how antioxidants offer protection against heart disease, cancer, senile brain disease, and all other degenerative conditions associated with aging. Dr. Harmon proved that age-related immune deficiency is caused by free radicals and can be reversed by antioxidants.
In terms of scientific significance, Dr. Harmon's Free Radical Theory ranks with Galileo's invention of the telescope, Newton's discovery of gravity, and Einstein's theory of relativity. No breakthrough has had more profound implications for human health and longevity.
Now in his mid-eighties and still professionally active, Dr. Harmon deserves the Nobel Prize for his revolutionary work.
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Reading through the posts, it appears that many good points were made. Going back to the original point of science or not, it really depends on if you believe the science behind whey protein.
Isagenix, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and many others all work (for the majority) if you stick to the program. Is calorie restriction a part of each one? yes. It becomes a personal preference as to what you want to substitute in place of more and "bad" calories.
Isagenix relies (personal observation) mostly on whey protein studies, with a "match and replace" meal substitution plan, that in theory gives you most daily essentials through their shakes, snacks and weekly cleanses. Fyi, the cleanses are not "poop" cleanses, they are cellular in nature. Theory, clear toxins from cells and replace with "good stuff" from program.
Have I seen it work, yes. Have I seen people gain weight back, yes. Have I seen people keep the weight off, yes. Most of the difference is staying on the Isagenix maintenance system or some other "good habit" system, not to go back to the old habits that caused and maintained the old weight level.
Full disclosure, as you might have guessed, I am an Isagenix associate. Whether you agree with network marketing or not is not a reason to dislike a product. Either a product can help some/most people or not. In this instance, I have seen it help a reasonable amount of people first hand, but not all. Different things work for different people. If you like your meal replacement and it can help with a reduction of weight and a build up of lean muscle mass, it will work for you, either short term or long term. If you like a different one, or a different approach, that will most likely work too. Commitment is really the key in all of the systems.
Costs. As with most network marketing companies, the costs appear a little high. Most of the time there is no exact product on the "open market" to compare it with. A 30 day program is about $10 per day. The maintenance program is about $3-4 per day. A little pricey, but if you are truly substituting meals for their system it may not seem as bad, and could actually save you money per day depending on your current meal costs.
Network marketing in general: there are some good companies and some really bad ones that give the industry the reputation that it has with most people. Some big supporters: Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some other famous business authors and entrepreneurs. Some big opponents: David Ackerman, some AG's and FDA if wrongful claims are made about products. Those that are against it are very fanatical against it, as well as those that are for it can act as if they are in a cult. Like everything, it's a personal preference. Not all/not the majority can succeed in this industry, just as they all or most won't succeed in a different industry. Some people are good at certain things and others excel at other things. Lucky for all of us that we have such diversity in all fields.
open market? Can you explain what an open market is?
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What was meant by open market was in the stores. Let's say a network marketing company is selling pycnogenol alone at 100mg. You can compare that to exactly what is being sold in the stores. A good deal of times a network marketing company may combine ingredients to formulate a product for a specific or multiple purpose and for it to be unique product to their company and chances are it will be the only place to purchase it.0
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Harriet Hall makes all her money by being a skeptic. No authority here.0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Harriet Hall makes all her money by being a skeptic. No authority here.
And you're making your money by peddling SCAMWOO and parroting false information, so, no authority here.0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Harriet Hall makes all her money by being a skeptic. No authority here.
You make your money selling Isogenix. No authority here.0 -
Never professed to be the authority, only answering the question as to whether I have ever seen the results of those that have used the Isagenix products.-2
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There are many articles to back up what I posted. If you have some opposing facts, by all means list them.0
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Just one since you mentioned free radicals, but you can find if you wish.
Abstract
The interplay between free radicals, antioxidants, and co-factors is important in maintaining health, aging and age-related diseases. Free radicals induce oxidative stress, which is balanced by the body’s endogenous antioxidant systems with an input from co-factors, and by the ingestion of exogenous antioxidants. If the generation of free radicals exceeds the protective effects of antioxidants, and some co-factors, this can cause oxidative damage which accumulates during the life cycle, and has been implicated in aging, and age dependent diseases such as cardiovascular disease, cancer, neurodegenerative disorders, and other chronic conditions. The life expectancy of the world population is increasing, and it is estimated that by 2025, 29% of the world population will be aged ≥60 years, and this will lead to an increase in the number of older people acquiring age-related chronic diseases. This will place greater financial burden on health services and high social cost for individuals and society. In order to acheive healthy aging the older people should be encouraged to acquire healthy life styles which should include diets rich in antioxidants. The aim of this review is to highlight the main themes from studies on free radicals, antioxidants and co-factors, and to propose an evidence-based strategy for healthy aging.
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Destiny4_four wrote: »There are many articles to back up what I posted. If you have some opposing facts, by all means list them.
Better yet, why won't you list the "many articles" that back up what you posted? As long as they're not a sales pitch or copied from wikipedia.0 -
Steven just google if your interested. That is better than me listing. Any nutritional product from any company includes ingredients. You can then "google" those ingredients and see if you agree to what if any benefits those ingredients possess. One ingredient in Isagenix shakes is whey protein. If you agree that you want those benefits that you read that whey protein has, then you may choose to take the Isagenix shake or some other shake or some other form of whey protein. Do you see the theory?0
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This content has been removed.
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Just one since you mentioned free radicals, but you can find if you wish.
Abstract
The interplay between free radicals, antioxidants, and co-factors is important in maintaining health, aging and age-related diseases. Free radicals induce oxidative stress, which is balanced by the body’s endogenous antioxidant systems with an input from co-factors, and by the ingestion of exogenous antioxidants. If the generation of free radicals exceeds the protective effects of antioxidants, and some co-factors, this can cause oxidative damage which accumulates during the life cycle, and has been implicated in aging, and age dependent diseases such as cardiovascular disease, cancer, neurodegenerative disorders, and other chronic conditions. The life expectancy of the world population is increasing, and it is estimated that by 2025, 29% of the world population will be aged ≥60 years, and this will lead to an increase in the number of older people acquiring age-related chronic diseases. This will place greater financial burden on health services and high social cost for individuals and society. In order to acheive healthy aging the older people should be encouraged to acquire healthy life styles which should include diets rich in antioxidants. The aim of this review is to highlight the main themes from studies on free radicals, antioxidants and co-factors, and to propose an evidence-based strategy for healthy aging.
That quote is from a 2007 overview paper on free radicals which is quite dated, and at least partially contradicted by current research. But that detail aside, I didn't ask for papers explaining free radicals. I know what free radicals are. I said it's your ethical obligation to provide valid information, backed up by reputable research, to demonstrate that Isagenix products do what you claim.
Let me make this simple: I'm talking about peer-reviewed research, published in reputable journals, demonstrating the use of Isagenix. That really isn't much to ask. In fact, it's a bare minimum when you're asking people to (a) spend money on it and (b) entrust their health to it.
I can't fathom spending that kind of money with a company making health claims that doesn't have a single published study. I don't even spend that much on medications I actually need.0
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