Isagenix, Science or Woo?
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Replies
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Queen, again I don't disagree, but if a person says I don't want to learn or I can't fish, what do you do then?0
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The science of whey protein is well established with many peer reviewed studies to back them. What companies do (basically all sellers) is exaggerate claims of using it for weight loss.Destiny4_four wrote: »Reading through the posts, it appears that many good points were made. Going back to the original point of science or not, it really depends on if you believe the science behind whey protein.
And that's the problem. Replacing a meal with a shake teaches the user really nothing because it was the issue of what/how much they were eating that resulted in weight gain. Address the issue, not the symptom.Isagenix, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and many others all work (for the majority) if you stick to the program. Is calorie restriction a part of each one? yes. It becomes a personal preference as to what you want to substitute in place of more and "bad" calories.
There are no toxins to remove, and drinking a shake or concoction would remove a toxin if there was. That's why we have Poison Centers and emergency rooms.Isagenix relies (personal observation) mostly on whey protein studies, with a "match and replace" meal substitution plan, that in theory gives you most daily essentials through their shakes, snacks and weekly cleanses. Fyi, the cleanses are not "poop" cleanses, they are cellular in nature. Theory, clear toxins from cells and replace with "good stuff" from program.
Actually the difference is basically adopting a lifestyle of eating that one can sustain while staying within their calorie limits. One can eat "healthy" and exceed their calorie limits.Have I seen it work, yes. Have I seen people gain weight back, yes. Have I seen people keep the weight off, yes. Most of the difference is staying on the Isagenix maintenance system or some other "good habit" system, not to go back to the old habits that caused and maintained the old weight level.
The statistics for people that use a meal replacement (regardless of brand) for weight loss and regain the weight they lost later after discontinuing is 90%. That's not a successful program.Full disclosure, as you might have guessed, I am an Isagenix associate. Whether you agree with network marketing or not is not a reason to dislike a product. Either a product can help some/most people or not. In this instance, I have seen it help a reasonable amount of people first hand, but not all. Different things work for different people. If you like your meal replacement and it can help with a reduction of weight and a build up of lean muscle mass, it will work for you, either short term or long term. If you like a different one, or a different approach, that will most likely work too. Commitment is really the key in all of the systems.
Be honest. The cost is high because of the "hands" that the money greases. There's the "associate", their sponsor, the sponsor's sponsor, the sponsor's sponsor's sponsor, a district manager, a regional manager, and the owners. What's sad here is that the main "customers" aren't the average joe purchasing product from the "associate". It's the "associate" being persuaded to be on a monthly auto purchase of said product to keep their statis as an "associate".Costs. As with most network marketing companies, the costs appear a little high. Most of the time there is no exact product on the "open market" to compare it with. A 30 day program is about $10 per day. The maintenance program is about $3-4 per day. A little pricey, but if you are truly substituting meals for their system it may not seem as bad, and could actually save you money per day depending on your current meal costs.
Not to mention that the products are very "ordinary". Basically all of them use a 3rd party manufacturer and the sellers have NO IDEA of what's actually in their product, what the dosage is (dosage matters), nor whether or not the product is pure and not contaminated with other ingredients not mentioned on the label. You're only repeating what you've been told by your sponsors (who more than likely have no degree in nutrition or science).
The good ones are real good persuaders..............in other words great sales people. I have nothing against people making money as long as there's no deception upon others.Network marketing in general: there are some good companies and some really bad ones that give the industry the reputation that it has with most people. Some big supporters: Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some other famous business authors and entrepreneurs. Some big opponents: David Ackerman, some AG's and FDA if wrongful claims are made about products. Those that are against it are very fanatical against it, as well as those that are for it can act as if they are in a cult. Like everything, it's a personal preference. Not all/not the majority can succeed in this industry, just as they all or most won't succeed in a different industry. Some people are good at certain things and others excel at other things. Lucky for all of us that we have such diversity in all fields.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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queenliz99 wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Reading through the posts, it appears that many good points were made. Going back to the original point of science or not, it really depends on if you believe the science behind whey protein.
Isagenix, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and many others all work (for the majority) if you stick to the program. Is calorie restriction a part of each one? yes. It becomes a personal preference as to what you want to substitute in place of more and "bad" calories.
Isagenix relies (personal observation) mostly on whey protein studies, with a "match and replace" meal substitution plan, that in theory gives you most daily essentials through their shakes, snacks and weekly cleanses. Fyi, the cleanses are not "poop" cleanses, they are cellular in nature. Theory, clear toxins from cells and replace with "good stuff" from program.
Have I seen it work, yes. Have I seen people gain weight back, yes. Have I seen people keep the weight off, yes. Most of the difference is staying on the Isagenix maintenance system or some other "good habit" system, not to go back to the old habits that caused and maintained the old weight level.
Full disclosure, as you might have guessed, I am an Isagenix associate. Whether you agree with network marketing or not is not a reason to dislike a product. Either a product can help some/most people or not. In this instance, I have seen it help a reasonable amount of people first hand, but not all. Different things work for different people. If you like your meal replacement and it can help with a reduction of weight and a build up of lean muscle mass, it will work for you, either short term or long term. If you like a different one, or a different approach, that will most likely work too. Commitment is really the key in all of the systems.
Costs. As with most network marketing companies, the costs appear a little high. Most of the time there is no exact product on the "open market" to compare it with. A 30 day program is about $10 per day. The maintenance program is about $3-4 per day. A little pricey, but if you are truly substituting meals for their system it may not seem as bad, and could actually save you money per day depending on your current meal costs.
Network marketing in general: there are some good companies and some really bad ones that give the industry the reputation that it has with most people. Some big supporters: Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some other famous business authors and entrepreneurs. Some big opponents: David Ackerman, some AG's and FDA if wrongful claims are made about products. Those that are against it are very fanatical against it, as well as those that are for it can act as if they are in a cult. Like everything, it's a personal preference. Not all/not the majority can succeed in this industry, just as they all or most won't succeed in a different industry. Some people are good at certain things and others excel at other things. Lucky for all of us that we have such diversity in all fields.
Okay. Can you please explain in detail as to what 'toxins' are removed from the cell and what "good stuff" is put in!
It's woo, don't believe it. Isagenix wants to believe you have toxins lurking about in your body, it's their business plan. Your liver and kidneys are filters. all your body needs.
Oh no! No way I am buying any of it. I was very curious to know how it cleared toxins out of cell
. Human bodies are quite capable of removing toxins and free radicals and oxidants out of the system, very effectively! If it wasn't we would be in grave danger. There is absolutely no need for any 'cleanser' to 'gently aid in removing toxins'. 0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »CJ, I can give you the company explanation below and try not to have it sound like a commercial:
"A scientifically formulated, synergistic
blend of natural cleansing herbs and
botanicals designed to support whole-body
cleansing and protect against the effects
of oxidative stress and harmful toxins.†"
(† These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.)
HOW IT WORKS: Helps your body naturally detox and
gently eliminate impurities while
infusing it with vitamins, minerals, and
antioxidants. It is not a colon cleanse
or laxative, but a nourishment product
aimed to make your cleansing safe and
effective. The nutrients in Cleanse for
Life aid your body while it releases toxins
stored in fat cells into circulation so they
can be excreted.†
THREE WAYS TO
CLEANSE
14-3011 - 120815
1. Everyday Cleansing
(Taking Cleanse for Life daily)
• Vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants
nourish the body and promote better
health†
• Antioxidant botanicals support a healthy
cardiovascular system*†
• Supports mental clarity†
2. Deep Cleansing
(1 or 2 back-to-back Cleanse Days)
• Supports overall weight maintenance†
• Supports cellular health and energy
levels†
• Supports the release of fat-soluble
toxins†
• Provides metabolic system support†
• Gives the digestive tract a rest, allowing
it to go into repair mode†
• Supports immune function†
None of that is true.0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.
Free radicals are a class of chemicals in a particular electron state. Some aren't even reactive even though they've technically entered the state - example: melanin. FYI, melanin is what determines hair and skin color to a large extent, so if Isagenix removes any and all free radicals (because it just says free radicals, not which ones it removes) it would be claiming it will turn people albino. Was Michael Jackson a customer?0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.
Free radicals are a class of chemicals in a particular electron state. Some aren't even reactive even though they've technically entered the state - example: melanin. FYI, melanin is what determines hair and skin color to a large extent, so if Isagenix removes any and all free radicals (because it just says free radicals, not which ones it removes) it would be claiming it will turn people albino. Was Michael Jackson a customer?
Why yes, I think he was.0 -
There are no toxins in the body. Ingesting something to the point of "toxicity" can happen, but the body doesn't manufacture nor store toxins.queenliz99 wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Reading through the posts, it appears that many good points were made. Going back to the original point of science or not, it really depends on if you believe the science behind whey protein.
Isagenix, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, and many others all work (for the majority) if you stick to the program. Is calorie restriction a part of each one? yes. It becomes a personal preference as to what you want to substitute in place of more and "bad" calories.
Isagenix relies (personal observation) mostly on whey protein studies, with a "match and replace" meal substitution plan, that in theory gives you most daily essentials through their shakes, snacks and weekly cleanses. Fyi, the cleanses are not "poop" cleanses, they are cellular in nature. Theory, clear toxins from cells and replace with "good stuff" from program.
Have I seen it work, yes. Have I seen people gain weight back, yes. Have I seen people keep the weight off, yes. Most of the difference is staying on the Isagenix maintenance system or some other "good habit" system, not to go back to the old habits that caused and maintained the old weight level.
Full disclosure, as you might have guessed, I am an Isagenix associate. Whether you agree with network marketing or not is not a reason to dislike a product. Either a product can help some/most people or not. In this instance, I have seen it help a reasonable amount of people first hand, but not all. Different things work for different people. If you like your meal replacement and it can help with a reduction of weight and a build up of lean muscle mass, it will work for you, either short term or long term. If you like a different one, or a different approach, that will most likely work too. Commitment is really the key in all of the systems.
Costs. As with most network marketing companies, the costs appear a little high. Most of the time there is no exact product on the "open market" to compare it with. A 30 day program is about $10 per day. The maintenance program is about $3-4 per day. A little pricey, but if you are truly substituting meals for their system it may not seem as bad, and could actually save you money per day depending on your current meal costs.
Network marketing in general: there are some good companies and some really bad ones that give the industry the reputation that it has with most people. Some big supporters: Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and some other famous business authors and entrepreneurs. Some big opponents: David Ackerman, some AG's and FDA if wrongful claims are made about products. Those that are against it are very fanatical against it, as well as those that are for it can act as if they are in a cult. Like everything, it's a personal preference. Not all/not the majority can succeed in this industry, just as they all or most won't succeed in a different industry. Some people are good at certain things and others excel at other things. Lucky for all of us that we have such diversity in all fields.
Okay. Can you please explain in detail as to what 'toxins' are removed from the cell and what "good stuff" is put in!
It's woo, don't believe it. Isagenix wants to believe you have toxins lurking about in your body, it's their business plan. Your liver and kidneys are filters. all your body needs.
Oh no! No way I am buying any of it. I was very curious to know how it cleared toxins out of cell . Human bodies are quite capable of removing toxins and free radicals and oxidants out of the system, very effectively! If it wasn't we would be in grave danger. There is absolutely no need for any 'cleanser' to 'gently aid in removing toxins'.
What is a toxin?
noun
1.
any poison produced by an organism, characterized by antigenicity in certain animals and high molecular weight, and including the bacterial toxins that are the causative agents of tetanus, diphtheria, etc., and such plant and animal toxins as ricin and snake venom.
Toxic poisoning is treated with medical help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
You know that I wasn't looking for any/all of you to "buy" it (literally or figuratively) based on the previous posts that I read. I commented because I have seen it help people when other means didn't. Is eating healthy and getting plenty of sleep and exercise the way to go, sure. But what percentage of the population actually/really does that consistently? Look at the money spent on "weight-loss" products and gimmicks for proof. My point was that this is one way that I actually witnessed that has helped people. It is certainly not the only or best way.0
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Niner, there are many definitions of toxins I guess. Senecarr not sure about MJ, lol though. Niner:
A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] synthetic toxicants created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919).[3]
Toxins can be small molecules, peptides, or proteins that are capable of causing disease on contact with or absorption by body tissues interacting with biological macromolecules such as enzymes or cellular receptors. Toxins vary greatly in their severity, ranging from usually minor (such as a bee sting) to almost immediately deadly (such as botulinum toxin).
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If people aren't successful, it's usually just one thing they need to address...........eating less than they currently are.Destiny4_four wrote: »You know that I wasn't looking for any/all of you to "buy" it (literally or figuratively) based on the previous posts that I read. I commented because I have seen it help people when other means didn't.
So offering a product that's nothing more than a hyped up supplement is going to change that? Wouldn't actual education and instruction on HOW to do it with sustainability be a more effective approach?Is eating healthy and getting plenty of sleep and exercise the way to go, sure. But what percentage of the population actually/really does that consistently?
Every weight loss product will have their testimonials. They ALL have success stories. Ironically you're selling a weight loss product and hoping people spend money on it. People don't need to spend exhorbant amounts of money to lose weight. They just need to learn how to reduce how much their eating and that's more about changing habitual behavior with food.Look at the money spent on "weight-loss" products and gimmicks for proof. My point was that this is one way that I actually witnessed that has helped people. It is certainly not the only or best way.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
"People don't need to spend exhorbant amounts of money to lose weight. They just need to learn how to reduce how much their eating and that's more about changing habitual behavior with food."
Agreed, that said, the vast majority won't, can't, don't want to do that. Not saying that's right, but it is the way it is.
Niner are you against Nutrisystem and Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig also? Just curious.
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Hopefully some people now understand what free radicals actually are.Destiny4_four wrote: »psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.
Free radicals are a class of chemicals in a particular electron state. Some aren't even reactive even though they've technically entered the state - example: melanin. FYI, melanin is what determines hair and skin color to a large extent, so if Isagenix removes any and all free radicals (because it just says free radicals, not which ones it removes) it would be claiming it will turn people albino. Was Michael Jackson a customer?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »CJ, I can give you the company explanation below and try not to have it sound like a commercial:
"A scientifically formulated, synergistic
blend of natural cleansing herbs and
botanicals designed to support whole-body
cleansing and protect against the effects
of oxidative stress and harmful toxins.†"
(† These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.)
HOW IT WORKS: Helps your body naturally detox and
gently eliminate impurities while
infusing it with vitamins, minerals, and
antioxidants. It is not a colon cleanse
or laxative, but a nourishment product
aimed to make your cleansing safe and
effective. The nutrients in Cleanse for
Life aid your body while it releases toxins
stored in fat cells into circulation so they
can be excreted.†
THREE WAYS TO
CLEANSE
14-3011 - 120815
1. Everyday Cleansing
(Taking Cleanse for Life daily)
• Vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants
nourish the body and promote better
health†
• Antioxidant botanicals support a healthy
cardiovascular system*†
• Supports mental clarity†
2. Deep Cleansing
(1 or 2 back-to-back Cleanse Days)
• Supports overall weight maintenance†
• Supports cellular health and energy
levels†
• Supports the release of fat-soluble
toxins†
• Provides metabolic system support†
• Gives the digestive tract a rest, allowing
it to go into repair mode†
• Supports immune function†
Yeah Baby, synergistic, twice this month! Again, is Stephen Covey getting paid for this!?? And thank GAWD for the cleansing safe and effective, yes Johnny, tell them what they've won! $300 a month down the toilet....woo hoo! The rest is worse as I read.......it certainly is helping someone, unfortunately not the users.
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I would rather limit them:
The free radical theory of aging (FRTA) states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time.[1] A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell.[2] While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive.[3] For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage. Antioxidants are reducing agents, and limit oxidative damage to biological structures by passivating them from free radicals.[4]
Strictly speaking, the free radical theory is only concerned with free radicals such as superoxide ( O2− ), but it has since been expanded to encompass oxidative damage from other reactive oxygen species such as hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), or peroxynitrite (OONO−).[4]
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I understand what a toxin is. I also understand that they don't exist in the body. One can ingest anything to a "toxic" level and at that point medical attention is needed. Drinking some supplement won't do that.Destiny4_four wrote: »Niner, there are many definitions of toxins I guess. Senecarr not sure about MJ, lol though. Niner:
A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] synthetic toxicants created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919).[3]
Toxins can be small molecules, peptides, or proteins that are capable of causing disease on contact with or absorption by body tissues interacting with biological macromolecules such as enzymes or cellular receptors. Toxins vary greatly in their severity, ranging from usually minor (such as a bee sting) to almost immediately deadly (such as botulinum toxin).
Even "healthy" things you need can become toxic in the body if over consumed.
Are you familiar with hyponatremia (water intoxication)?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »I would rather limit them:
The free radical theory of aging (FRTA) states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time.[1] A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell.[2] While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive.[3] For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage. Antioxidants are reducing agents, and limit oxidative damage to biological structures by passivating them from free radicals.[4]
Strictly speaking, the free radical theory is only concerned with free radicals such as superoxide ( O2− ), but it has since been expanded to encompass oxidative damage from other reactive oxygen species such as hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), or peroxynitrite (OONO−).[4]
Did they also look at (BOZO-7)? The oxygen used by clowns selling this stuff?!?
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Wetcoaster wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »CJ, I can give you the company explanation below and try not to have it sound like a commercial:
"A scientifically formulated, synergistic
blend of natural cleansing herbs and
botanicals designed to support whole-body
cleansing and protect against the effects
of oxidative stress and harmful toxins.†"
(† These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.)
HOW IT WORKS: Helps your body naturally detox and
gently eliminate impurities while
infusing it with vitamins, minerals, and
antioxidants. It is not a colon cleanse
or laxative, but a nourishment product
aimed to make your cleansing safe and
effective. The nutrients in Cleanse for
Life aid your body while it releases toxins
stored in fat cells into circulation so they
can be excreted.†
THREE WAYS TO
CLEANSE
14-3011 - 120815
1. Everyday Cleansing
(Taking Cleanse for Life daily)
• Vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants
nourish the body and promote better
health†
• Antioxidant botanicals support a healthy
cardiovascular system*†
• Supports mental clarity†
2. Deep Cleansing
(1 or 2 back-to-back Cleanse Days)
• Supports overall weight maintenance†
• Supports cellular health and energy
levels†
• Supports the release of fat-soluble
toxins†
• Provides metabolic system support†
• Gives the digestive tract a rest, allowing
it to go into repair mode†
• Supports immune function†
None of that is true.
And conveniently enough, they can claim it even if it's not true, by putting in that cute little proviso"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."0 -
But that's the point of the site. To learn how to eat correctly and maintain the losses they've made. Heck if they wanted to just lose weight, they can google it for any plan.Destiny4_four wrote: »"People don't need to spend exhorbant amounts of money to lose weight. They just need to learn how to reduce how much their eating and that's more about changing habitual behavior with food."
Agreed, that said, the vast majority won't, can't, don't want to do that. Not saying that's right, but it is the way it is.
Weight watchers, no. I'm not fond of people using pre prepped meals for weight loss either because they usually won't eat pre prepped meals the rest of their life. While it MAY help them with portion control, I've read on forums many times that people on these systems give into eating 2 dinners instead of 1 because they're starving. Again, my instruction to clients is to learn how to eat what they like within calorie limits. Hopefully they are also getting in their essentials while doing it.Niner are you against Nutrisystem and Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig also? Just curious.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Queen, again I don't disagree, but if a person says I don't want to learn or I can't fish, what do you do then?
You slap them on the head because it's their health they're toying with instead of trying to abuse their laziness to make money.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Queen, again I don't disagree, but if a person says I don't want to learn or I can't fish, what do you do then?
You slap them on the head because it's their health they're toying with instead of trying to abuse their laziness to make money.
Plus, anyone that's here, wants to 'learn to fish', and 'can learn to fish'.0
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