Isagenix, Science or Woo?
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I'm not asking anyone here to buy anything. I was clear on that. It is the ingredients that "you" must research to see if "you" agree with the benefits (unless you don't think that they put those ingredients in their products). You have yet to demonstrate an opposing factual view. If you have something more to add on free radicals, please do.0
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"We" don't need to do your job. If "You" come in here and say the products do this and that then it's "your" job to show us that that is the truth.0
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Wrong Steve. I answered the question that started the thread. That's what forums and topics promote.0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »I'm not asking anyone here to buy anything. I was clear on that. It is the ingredients that "you" must research to see if "you" agree with the benefits (unless you don't think that they put those ingredients in their products). You have yet to demonstrate an opposing factual view. If you have something more to add on free radicals, please do.
If you are the one making the claims then you are the one who needs to provide the research. If a customer were to approach you with these questions would you tell them to use Google? I would think that if you sell it then you would already have links bookmarked or readily available.
Your lack of any studies/research just reaffirms that the only thing these coaches/distributors/whatever are not knowledgeable of the product that they are selling.0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »I'm not asking anyone here to buy anything. I was clear on that. It is the ingredients that "you" must research to see if "you" agree with the benefits (unless you don't think that they put those ingredients in their products). You have yet to demonstrate an opposing factual view. If you have something more to add on free radicals, please do.
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What irks me the most is the exorbitant price isagenix et al charge. They prey on desperate, gullible and naive overweight people. Morals are just thrown out the window. I wouldn't have the conscience to peddle this stuff
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Jkal, what claims am I making? The question was science or woo, I believe. I offered science (if anyone cares to look for themselves) and personal observation. If anyone was truly interested in the answer, I'm assuming that they did at least that.
It surely doesn't matter to me who or how many believe me. For those that really wanted the answer I'm sure they got it already. It is for those that I chose to answer into this thread even after reading some of the posts before I got involved.
And you would be mistaken; I always tell all those that I come in contact with to do their own research. There are numerous reasons for this, and I also encourage my associates/team to do the same.0 -
Christine, price is always a concern of mine too. Some people can not just afford this alternative, and I do steer them in another direction (actually eating healthy, which if you saw I agree with Niner). For those that can or can do the "match and replace" or have reason to believe that they can derive income from it, then I offer to help as much as I can. Many people spend much, much more on Weight Watchers and/or Nutrisystem.0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Christine, price is always a concern of mine too. Some people can not just afford this alternative, and I do steer them in another direction (actually eating healthy, which if you saw I agree with Niner). For those that can or can do the "match and replace" or have reason to believe that they can derive income from it, then I offer to help as much as I can. Many people spend much, much more on Weight Watchers and/or Nutrisystem.
Curious, have you garnered any clients since posting in this thread? Because you seem rather adamant about this product. I have some swamp land for sale, real cheap.0 -
Queen, no, and that wasn't my intention. Now what state was that swamp land in? lol0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Queen, no, and that wasn't my intention. Now what state was that swamp land in? lol
It has bubbling crude.0 -
Texas tea?0
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Don't look for or expect legitimate studies about any of the scam MLM products (Isagenix, Beachbody, Advocare, ItWorks, etc.) . The companies wouldn't want their products exposed as the ineffective, low quality garbage they are. Their only goal is to fleece desperate/gullible people out of as much money as possible.
Don't expect any educated information from the "coaches" (salespeople) either. Most of them know nothing about nutrition or training other than the advertising hype and pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo they're fed by the company, which, as we've seen, is what they'll parrot when asked about the products.0 -
Anvil, I'm sure if you search hard enough you just might find some studies, and independent ones at that, at least regarding Isagenix products. See if I post them, you see I have to defend them as if they were mine and that is not my intention. Also you are free to offer opposing facts if you find them.0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »Anvil, I'm sure if you search hard enough you just might find some studies, and independent ones at that, at least regarding Isagenix products. See if I post them, you see I have to defend them as if they were mine and that is not my intention. Also you are free to offer opposing facts if you find them.
See, the thing is, I don't need to search to try to find studies. I already know everything I need to know about sleazy MLM products and would never use them. I know how to lose weight and get fit without wasting my money on scam products. If I'm going to buy supplements, they'll be products which have been researched and proven to be efficient, and I'll buy from legitimate companies which don't make ridiculous claims about their "miracle products".0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Anvil, I'm sure if you search hard enough you just might find some studies, and independent ones at that, at least regarding Isagenix products. See if I post them, you see I have to defend them as if they were mine and that is not my intention. Also you are free to offer opposing facts if you find them.
Isagenix themselves admit they have produced no such studies.0 -
Destiny4_four wrote: »Anvil, I'm sure if you search hard enough you just might find some studies, and independent ones at that, at least regarding Isagenix products. See if I post them, you see I have to defend them as if they were mine and that is not my intention. Also you are free to offer opposing facts if you find them.
Isagenix themselves admit they have produced no such studies.
There we go. I didn't know that.0 -
K, where did you read that?0
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Christine_72 wrote: »What irks me the most is the exorbitant price isagenix et al charge. They prey on desperate, gullible and naive overweight people. Morals are just thrown out the window. I wouldn't have the conscience to peddle this stuff
I couldn't do it either knowing I am selling snake oil to vulnerable people. Much better ways of making money out there.
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queenliz99 wrote: »Destiny4_four wrote: »Anvil, I'm sure if you search hard enough you just might find some studies, and independent ones at that, at least regarding Isagenix products. See if I post them, you see I have to defend them as if they were mine and that is not my intention. Also you are free to offer opposing facts if you find them.
Isagenix themselves admit they have produced no such studies.
There we go. I didn't know that.
Let me clarify that statement actually before I get jumped on. They have a research team that purports to provide clinical analysis of the results of the products, but none of them are peer reviewed and the article that is often considered by Isagenix as peer reviewed IS in a peer reviewed journal, but Isagenix admitted to paying for its publishing.
The results this far have been insignificant, the study designs severely flawed and the peer reviews non existent.
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Christine_72 wrote: »What irks me the most is the exorbitant price isagenix et al charge. They prey on desperate, gullible and naive overweight people. Morals are just thrown out the window. I wouldn't have the conscience to peddle this stuff
I couldn't do it either knowing I am selling snake oil to vulnerable people. Much better ways of making money out there.
Worse than that... They prey on family and close friends... Abuse their relationships, try to guilt them into "supporting", loose most of them before they realize they actually made no money, have crazy inventory left to sell, and are now all alone....
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Expatmommy79 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »What irks me the most is the exorbitant price isagenix et al charge. They prey on desperate, gullible and naive overweight people. Morals are just thrown out the window. I wouldn't have the conscience to peddle this stuff
I couldn't do it either knowing I am selling snake oil to vulnerable people. Much better ways of making money out there.
Worse than that... They prey on family and close friends... Abuse their relationships, try to guilt them into "supporting", loose most of them before they realize they actually made no money, have crazy inventory left to sell, and are now all alone....
When you are desperate all bets are off.0 -
K thanks for clarifying your original statement and one offer to show some of the things that are out there. (It does appear though that others allow their judgement to be impaired by their bias with respect to network marketing, nonetheless):
Beginning in 2009 at New York Chiropractic College, “proof of concept” of
the Isagenix system began with two independent open-labeled pilot trials.
The principal investigator, Mary Balliet, Ph.D., submitted her research to the
renowned scientific conference Experimental Biology. It would be the first
time that the system would strike interest within the scientific community,
paving the way for further interest and research.
By the time 2010 and 2011 rolled around, the company had sought out
collaborations with several colleges and universities for a variety of research
studies. It was also in 2011 that Isagenix partnered with University of Illinois
at Chicago (UIC), a leading research institution in the field of health sciences,
health promotion, and disease prevention.
The UIC partnership would prove to be particularly fruitful, largely because
of the selection of Krista Varady, Ph.D. as lead investigator. Dr. Varady’s
previous research offered encouraging results from intermittent fasting and
alternate-day fasting regimens for weight loss and cardiovascular health.
Unlike other regimens, however, the Isagenix system was the first to
incorporate both an intermittent fasting (Cleanse Days) and a calorierestricted
regimen together (Shake Days). Dr. Varady noted that she was
excited at the prospect of comparing the system to a heart-healthy diet, the
gold-standard benchmark.
Sure enough, after a 10-week study, subjects on the Isagenix system turned
out to have superior results across all clinical parameters in comparison
to the heart-healthy group. Notably, they lost more weight, more total
body fat, and twice as much visceral fat leading to greater improvement in
cardiovascular risk factors (2,3).
The UIC study was a major milestone for Isagenix. Its findings were reported
in two reputable peer-reviewed journals in 2012, Nutrition Journal and
Nutrition and Metabolism (2,3). In addition, in 2013 the study won the award
for best poster in the Obesity Research Interest Section at the Experimental
Biology conference.
It should have been no surprise that the results of the UIC study would
attract other researchers who had an interest in evaluating Isagenix
products. The company, however, was interested in taking research a step
further—a new challenge for the Isagenix system. “Most companies would
stop there, but not Isagenix,” said Chief Science Officer Suk Cho, Ph.D. “The
question was whether people could maintain their weight loss. We also
wanted to evaluate the detoxification component of the system.”
In collaboration with a new principal investigator, Paul Arciero, Ph.D., at
Skidmore College, and toxicologist Don Patterson at AXYS Analytical
Services, it was time to build on where prior research had left off. A new
study was designed that would evaluate the system on both women and
men, how it would affect arterial flexibility and blood flow (both markers of
cardiovascular health), as well as its impact on basal metabolism.
The study was also the first to evaluate a “cleansing” factor by measuring
the increase in circulating toxins as a result of the Isagenix system—the
essential first step in detoxifying and eliminating harmful compounds from
the body. It would be the first study of its kind to evaluate the influence of
nutritional intervention on an increase in circulating toxins as a result of the
weight loss achieved by a combination of “Cleanse Days” and “Shake Days.”
After an initial 10 weeks, the Isagenix system proved once again to deliver
results consistent with the UIC study. The findings were presented as a
poster at Experimental Biology and as an abstract in The FASEB Journal (4).
At this point, Isagenix gave Dr. Arciero the funding to extend the study with
a 12-month weight maintenance period. The initial subjects were split into
two groups, with half assigned to a dietitian-counseled, heart-healthy diet
and the other half continuing on a maintenance program using Isagenix
products.
After six months, the preliminary results were exciting for Isagenix. The
system was still showing promising results with considerable metabolic and
cardiovascular improvements, along with weight loss and metabolic rate
maintained or improved. Currently underway is a review of the final data of
the Skidmore College study after 12 months of weight maintenance.
Dr. Cho notes that few companies that market nutritional products ever
venture into funding quality research to demonstrate the efficacy of their
products. “We did. We want to show that using our products in the longterm
leads to lasting benefits,” says Dr. Cho.
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Expatmommy79 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »What irks me the most is the exorbitant price isagenix et al charge. They prey on desperate, gullible and naive overweight people. Morals are just thrown out the window. I wouldn't have the conscience to peddle this stuff
I couldn't do it either knowing I am selling snake oil to vulnerable people. Much better ways of making money out there.
Worse than that... They prey on family and close friends... Abuse their relationships, try to guilt them into "supporting", loose most of them before they realize they actually made no money, have crazy inventory left to sell, and are now all alone....
And the only thing worse than that is when they try to start recruiting you to sell it even if you haven't used the product.
I had a friend who was selling an MLM (not a weight loss product) and she was more interested in recruiting me as a consultant than she was about getting me to purchase a few items. It didn't matter to her that I never tried the product or that I am loyal to another brand, her only concern was to get people under her so she could move up.0 -
Yes, of course. Anybody who doesn't blindly buy into the woo has impaired judgment. Of course. I'm sure that's one of the lines they teach their salespeople.Destiny4_four wrote: »K thanks for clarifying your original statement and one offer to show some of the things that are out there. (It does appear though that others allow their judgement to be impaired by their bias with respect to network marketing, nonetheless):
I didn't even bother quoting or responding to the rest of the post because it's just more regurgitated marketing woo straight from the company.
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Jkal, I agree with you. That's what gives this industry such a bad rap. And unfortunately it is more the norm than the exception these days.0
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@alex this is starting to sound like an infomercial0
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Destiny4_four wrote: »K thanks for clarifying your original statement and one offer to show some of the things that are out there. (It does appear though that others allow their judgement to be impaired by their bias with respect to network marketing, nonetheless):
Beginning in 2009 at New York Chiropractic College, “proof of concept” of
the Isagenix system began with two independent open-labeled pilot trials.
The principal investigator, Mary Balliet, Ph.D., submitted her research to the
renowned scientific conference Experimental Biology. It would be the first
time that the system would strike interest within the scientific community,
paving the way for further interest and research.
By the time 2010 and 2011 rolled around, the company had sought out
collaborations with several colleges and universities for a variety of research
studies. It was also in 2011 that Isagenix partnered with University of Illinois
at Chicago (UIC), a leading research institution in the field of health sciences,
health promotion, and disease prevention.
The UIC partnership would prove to be particularly fruitful, largely because
of the selection of Krista Varady, Ph.D. as lead investigator. Dr. Varady’s
previous research offered encouraging results from intermittent fasting and
alternate-day fasting regimens for weight loss and cardiovascular health.
Unlike other regimens, however, the Isagenix system was the first to
incorporate both an intermittent fasting (Cleanse Days) and a calorierestricted
regimen together (Shake Days). Dr. Varady noted that she was
excited at the prospect of comparing the system to a heart-healthy diet, the
gold-standard benchmark.
Sure enough, after a 10-week study, subjects on the Isagenix system turned
out to have superior results across all clinical parameters in comparison
to the heart-healthy group. Notably, they lost more weight, more total
body fat, and twice as much visceral fat leading to greater improvement in
cardiovascular risk factors (2,3).
The UIC study was a major milestone for Isagenix. Its findings were reported
in two reputable peer-reviewed journals in 2012, Nutrition Journal and
Nutrition and Metabolism (2,3). In addition, in 2013 the study won the award
for best poster in the Obesity Research Interest Section at the Experimental
Biology conference.
It should have been no surprise that the results of the UIC study would
attract other researchers who had an interest in evaluating Isagenix
products. The company, however, was interested in taking research a step
further—a new challenge for the Isagenix system. “Most companies would
stop there, but not Isagenix,” said Chief Science Officer Suk Cho, Ph.D. “The
question was whether people could maintain their weight loss. We also
wanted to evaluate the detoxification component of the system.”
In collaboration with a new principal investigator, Paul Arciero, Ph.D., at
Skidmore College, and toxicologist Don Patterson at AXYS Analytical
Services, it was time to build on where prior research had left off. A new
study was designed that would evaluate the system on both women and
men, how it would affect arterial flexibility and blood flow (both markers of
cardiovascular health), as well as its impact on basal metabolism.
The study was also the first to evaluate a “cleansing” factor by measuring
the increase in circulating toxins as a result of the Isagenix system—the
essential first step in detoxifying and eliminating harmful compounds from
the body. It would be the first study of its kind to evaluate the influence of
nutritional intervention on an increase in circulating toxins as a result of the
weight loss achieved by a combination of “Cleanse Days” and “Shake Days.”
After an initial 10 weeks, the Isagenix system proved once again to deliver
results consistent with the UIC study. The findings were presented as a
poster at Experimental Biology and as an abstract in The FASEB Journal (4).
At this point, Isagenix gave Dr. Arciero the funding to extend the study with
a 12-month weight maintenance period. The initial subjects were split into
two groups, with half assigned to a dietitian-counseled, heart-healthy diet
and the other half continuing on a maintenance program using Isagenix
products.
After six months, the preliminary results were exciting for Isagenix. The
system was still showing promising results with considerable metabolic and
cardiovascular improvements, along with weight loss and metabolic rate
maintained or improved. Currently underway is a review of the final data of
the Skidmore College study after 12 months of weight maintenance.
Dr. Cho notes that few companies that market nutritional products ever
venture into funding quality research to demonstrate the efficacy of their
products. “We did. We want to show that using our products in the longterm
leads to lasting benefits,” says Dr. Cho.
Yup, quoted straight off the website. If you read the article, though, it's a study piloted by UIC about IF and the effects of using a liquid substitute as part of a diet.
It's strongly biased though because the same results have been achieved over and over across fields of nutrition for decades by restricting calories. It does not at all demonstrate how Isagenix is unique to assisting in that or back up ANY of their claims about its healing effects.
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K not to bore anyone else, what did you think of the Skidmore study?0
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It's strongly biased though because the same results have been achieved over and over across fields of nutrition for decades by restricting calories. It does not at all demonstrate how Isagenix is unique to assisting in that or back up ANY of their claims about its healing effects.
Nor does it address the purity of their products or the accuracy of their labeling (i.e., whether or not the products actually even contain what they say it does). Many reputable supplement companies have submitted their products to USP or other independent labs for testing. To my knowledge, none of the MLM companies have, and it's a shame because I'd LOVE to see the results.0
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