Daily goals: Sugar
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@earlnabby I just needed you to know that your Princess Bride reference did not go unnoticed.
Yippee!!!0 -
Was there a post about a land war in Asia?@earlnabby I just needed you to know that your Princess Bride reference did not go unnoticed.
Yippee!!!
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GaleHawkins wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Thanks for the interesting chart. Perhaps the rise of artificial sugar replacements did not help reduce obesity or perhaps even increased it.
Pulling fats out of the food supply and adding sugar and other sweeteners to cover the resulting flat taste may be the smoking gun of obesity perhaps.
All I know is I removed all forms of grains and most all form of sugars 14 months ago. 30 days later my pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 and has not returned. My 40 years of IBS was cured in six months. My triglycerides and cholesterol ratios are better than I can remember since testing for them.
Since carbs are not required for top level human health I personally decided to eat fewer than 50 grams daily for life. I did not decide that for anyone else even in my household.
Diet and its results is a personal choice that we get to live/die by.
or perhaps, people just eat too many calories and that is what leads to obesity…I don't see why that is so hard to understand.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »
Was there a post about a land war in Asia?@earlnabby I just needed you to know that your Princess Bride reference did not go unnoticed.
Yippee!!!
Somewhere there is probably one about dreaming of large women0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »
Was there a post about a land war in Asia?@earlnabby I just needed you to know that your Princess Bride reference did not go unnoticed.
Yippee!!!
Somewhere there is probably one about dreaming of large women
uh oh...my movie computer.....broke. Ugh....before the storming of the castle?!?
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GaleHawkins wrote: »
I'd like to point out that dietary choices are typically NOT life or death decisions, unless we are picking Nightshade or somesuch.
I'd even contend that the diets on both sides of this debate are only marginally different. We are all eating enough to survive, and we are eating a wide range of foods for nutrition.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Thanks for the interesting chart. Perhaps the rise of artificial sugar replacements did not help reduce obesity or perhaps even increased it.
Pulling fats out of the food supply and adding sugar and other sweeteners to cover the resulting flat taste may be the smoking gun of obesity perhaps.
All I know is I removed all forms of grains and most all form of sugars 14 months ago. 30 days later my pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 and has not returned. My 40 years of IBS was cured in six months. My triglycerides and cholesterol ratios are better than I can remember since testing for them.
Since carbs are not required for top level human health I personally decided to eat fewer than 50 grams daily for life. I did not decide that for anyone else even in my household.
Diet and its results is a personal choice that we get to live/die by.
or perhaps, people just eat too many calories and that is what leads to obesity…I don't see why that is so hard to understand.
It isn't hard to understand, unless one is determined not to.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Thanks for the interesting chart. Perhaps the rise of artificial sugar replacements did not help reduce obesity or perhaps even increased it.
Pulling fats out of the food supply and adding sugar and other sweeteners to cover the resulting flat taste may be the smoking gun of obesity perhaps.
All I know is I removed all forms of grains and most all form of sugars 14 months ago. 30 days later my pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 and has not returned. My 40 years of IBS was cured in six months. My triglycerides and cholesterol ratios are better than I can remember since testing for them.
Since carbs are not required for top level human health I personally decided to eat fewer than 50 grams daily for life. I did not decide that for anyone else even in my household.
Diet and its results is a personal choice that we get to live/die by.
You should know by now that artificial sweeteners, being devoid of calories, are incapable of making anyone obese unless that person starts overeating fat and protein (since it can't be sugar because that went down).0 -
My apologies, _Terrapin_. I get testy if I think people are blaming all diabetes on poor lifestyle in total (and you clarified that you weren't).
Earl, so great! Good job! I watch my carbs like a hawk, lost the little bit of weight that I had gained recently (but that was before my diagnosis), and upped my vigorous exercise specifically to help my BG levels. I already lifted and did yoga, but I added longer walks and sprinting. I even take supplements that are supposed to help on top of taking Metformin. My levels haven't changed much
My monitor shows when I slip up that it would be much, much worse now if I didn't do the things to help, though, so maybe I should count my efforts as a win.
I only had PCOS as a risk factor, unless my Native American genes came through on that. That was from my grandfather, so it is possible probably. His mom died of diabetes. I'd rather have gotten the great hair or darker skin, personally
ETA: I did and do have a huge sweet tooth. I am naturally curious as to whether eating a lot of carbs or sugar actually is a risk factor for IR, especially since it can make IR progress to diabetes. But that curiosity isn't settled in the science yet, so I won't say it does cause problems! I do worry for people that it might, I have to admit. But if people get the blood tests at the doc frequently enough, that should catch enough problems early that we won't see as much diabetes. I wish that was the focus of doctors and such.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Yet, you try to spin "Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century" by bolding the bit about sugar and carbs being part of the problem.DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
LOL fats and proteins are also a "part" of the obesity epidemic, yet, I don't see you calling for those to be restricted…
still waiting on your "years" of research ...
Sciencey folks usually write very carefully, its probably not OK to put your spin on his words
This thread is about the sugar part.
Saying that excessive sugar is a problem doesn't actually help the OP or disagree with anyone. The discussion opened by OP is about what constitutes excessive sugar.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Thanks for the interesting chart. Perhaps the rise of artificial sugar replacements did not help reduce obesity or perhaps even increased it.
Pulling fats out of the food supply and adding sugar and other sweeteners to cover the resulting flat taste may be the smoking gun of obesity perhaps.
All I know is I removed all forms of grains and most all form of sugars 14 months ago. 30 days later my pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 and has not returned. My 40 years of IBS was cured in six months. My triglycerides and cholesterol ratios are better than I can remember since testing for them.
Since carbs are not required for top level human health I personally decided to eat fewer than 50 grams daily for life. I did not decide that for anyone else even in my household.
Diet and its results is a personal choice that we get to live/die by.
or perhaps, people just eat too many calories and that is what leads to obesity…I don't see why that is so hard to understand.
Yep.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
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Which statements did she attribute to you that you didn't say?lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
You mean like when you stated that sugar causes medical conditions? And then no one has been able to provide an answer because tooth decay which is really caused by bacteria.
I mean honestly, its beneficial to replace ultra processed foods with whole sources but sugar in the context of a wholesome diet is in no way bad.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
You mean like when you stated that sugar causes medical conditions? And then no one has been able to provide an answer because tooth decay which is really caused by bacteria.
and what would you feed a tooth decay bacteria to make it big and strong?
I mean honestly, its beneficial to replace ultra processed foods with whole sources but sugar in the context of a wholesome diet is in no way bad.
agreed0 -
I know I know
In the answer carbohydrates ?
Alternatively eat some cheese to neutralise mouth acids, brush and floss and visit the dentist regularly0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
You mean like when you stated that sugar causes medical conditions? And then no one has been able to provide an answer because tooth decay which is really caused by bacteria.
and what would you feed a tooth decay bacteria to make it big and strong?
I mean honestly, its beneficial to replace ultra processed foods with whole sources but sugar in the context of a wholesome diet is in no way bad.
agreed
I generally brush my teeth with a flouride toothpaste, floss and use mouthwash.. basic hygiene really with help with tooth decay.
Another question (was thinking over dinner), which foods do you think people typically overeat?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
You mean like when you stated that sugar causes medical conditions? And then no one has been able to provide an answer because tooth decay which is really caused by bacteria.
and what would you feed a tooth decay bacteria to make it big and strong?
I mean honestly, its beneficial to replace ultra processed foods with whole sources but sugar in the context of a wholesome diet is in no way bad.
agreed
I generally brush my teeth with a flouride toothpaste, floss and use mouthwash.. basic hygiene really with help with tooth decay.
Another question (was thinking over dinner), which foods do you think people typically overeat?
Honestly, all of them. Portion sizes are far beyond sustenance levels.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
From the chart's author -
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat.
That is all I'm saying.
No, that is not all you are saying. You repeatedly group all carbs together and ignore the issues with respect to other foods that may be contained in excessive amounts in lower carb diets. You also ignore the evidence that many extremely healthy traditional diets are as or higher in carbs than the SAD. The SAD is not a good diet, but the percentage of carbs is the least of it (it's also considered a high fat diet still, btw, although that also is not significant -- the particular carbs and fats and even proteins that make it up is the issue).
But you, you decide that apples should be included as "garbage." No credible nutrition scientist will agree with that.
And you have knowingly and repeatedly have mistated my words and created new statements that I did not make.
You mean like when you stated that sugar causes medical conditions? And then no one has been able to provide an answer because tooth decay which is really caused by bacteria.
and what would you feed a tooth decay bacteria to make it big and strong?
I mean honestly, its beneficial to replace ultra processed foods with whole sources but sugar in the context of a wholesome diet is in no way bad.
agreed
I generally brush my teeth with a flouride toothpaste, floss and use mouthwash.. basic hygiene really with help with tooth decay.
Another question (was thinking over dinner), which foods do you think people typically overeat?
Honestly, all of them. Portion sizes are far beyond sustenance levels.
Thats exactly what many have been saying. So why identify sugar as one of the main culprits as noted previously?
Generally, i hear cookies, cake, ice cream, and pizza identified and we are quick to point at the carbs but ratherly the associated fats (fats, in many cases outweigh the carbs calorically). And because of this, i keep seeing people not learning from the mistakes of our past (i.e - fat is bad).
Because of this, there are far many other things i worry about more than sugar and/or carbs.... overall calories and exercise being the biggest ones. And that is what i would suggest as first steps with almost every person who ask for advice. Those are the two, more identified, things correlated to medical issues to include T2, obesity and so much more. Rarely, if ever, are specific macronutrients identified as a real cause of issues. And more times than not people are too busy looking at the trees that they dont see the forest which generally makes things more complicated long term.
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