Can you be fat and in starvation mode?

JavaJael

It is actually quite difficult to go into starvation mode, especially if you are eating regularly. It's like the whole "I gained a lb but I have been exercising so it must be muscle" - Maybe but unlikely, it takes longer than a dew days at the gym to build 1lb of pure muscle.

You cannot be an over weight person, eat low calories and not lose weight. Metabolism may well slow but it soon picks up again.

So how would you explain what's been happening to me?

4_Lisa

At some point - shouldn't your body start using fat to feed itself? When I bring this up - it sure seems like they insinuate that I can't possibly eat that little and be as big as I am. I MUST be eating more than I think I am.

So - what are your opinions? Is it possible to be fat, not eat enough, and still not lose weight? Is there anyone here that has actually busted out of starvation mode? Was it really only a few weeks and you repaired your metabolism? How much did you gain before you started to lose again?

Long and short of it is...

A- you don't want your body to start feeding on itself it will take the lean muscle first for the protein it contains, not the fat everyone hopes it will.

B- I've been there, if you aren't eating enough, your body simply hoards the food as fat, you need to eat enough so your body can function and build the fire to burn the fat.

The first while I ate more, yes I saw a gain because even though my body had enough food, it didn't know if it was going to continue to receive the food, so to protect itself it hung onto EVERYTHING I ate. And no it didn't take a few weeks... It took some playing around with amounts of calories to find my ultimate balance.I still experiment every now and then. If your metabolism is that screwed up, repairing it should be your FIRST priority, not loosing weight. Once that is working as it should, the rest will come.

4_Lisa

It is actually quite difficult to go into starvation mode, especially if you are eating regularly. It's like the whole "I gained a lb but I have been exercising so it must be muscle" - Maybe but unlikely, it takes longer than a dew days at the gym to build 1lb of pure muscle.

You cannot be an over weight person, eat low calories and not lose weight. Metabolism may well slow but it soon picks up again.

That depends on how long it has been functioning and how screwed up it is. Yes it will repair and pick up, but it takes a while.

4_Lisa

And I don't look at it so much as starvation mode, more like a squirrel collecting stores for the winter... It collects and hangs onto everything cause you never know what is coming later.

JavaJael

Long and short of it is...

A- you don't want your body to start feeding on itself it will take the lean muscle first for the protein it contains, not the fat everyone hopes it will.

B- I've been there, if you aren't eating enough, your body simply hoards the food as fat, you need to eat enough so your body can function and build the fire to burn the fat.

The first while I ate more, yes I saw a gain because even though my body had enough food, it didn't know if it was going to continue to receive the food, so to protect itself it hung onto EVERYTHING I ate. And no it didn't take a few weeks... It took some playing around with amounts of calories to find my ultimate balance.I still experiment every now and then. If your metabolism is that screwed up, repairing it should be your FIRST priority, not loosing weight. Once that is working as it should, the rest will come.

A positive response - thank you I agree - repairing it should be my first priority. And honestly I know from experience that focusing on how I'm feeling and meeting goals OTHER than weightloss are more encouraging for me. The weightloss when it was happening was slow enough that focusing on that alone was discouraging. meeting lifting goals, speed goals, meeting nutrition percentage goals and intake - all more productive for me. Focusing on the scale ended up forcing me into unhealthy thinking in the past, discouragement, and it never gave me any insight into body composition either.

Anyhow if it's okay to ask - How long did it take you to repair your metabolism... years? If that's too personal - tell me to shove it lol I'm okay with that.

How did you know (or suspect) that you'd found the right balance?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions of everyone - the thing is I didn't come here to whine and whinge, I came posting to try to find answers and FIX it.

JavaJael

And I don't look at it so much as starvation mode, more like a squirrel collecting stores for the winter... It collects and hangs onto everything cause you never know what is coming later.

this is more how I see it also - and I can see now that using the terminology "starvation mode" has some negative connotations associations with it (read flame inducing)

b_ray_73

I've been trying to be gluten free for a while, mostly successful, save for again - the trip up meals when we're out and about on the weekend and end up eating out for a meal. I wouldn't say that I'm 100% free though - even eliminating those occasional meals out - I'm still getting small amounts of gluten in the soy sauce that I use to cook. I have noticed a link between eating gluten and a spike the next day in joint pain, fatigue, even a possible trigger for migraines. I've also noticed that after being off of it for a few weeks when I did have some - it triggered the gastric spasms and IBS issues big time. So far no weightloss with going gluten free though (perhaps that will come with time though if I"m eating enough)

Sending you a msg as I would def love any gluten free recipes, meals, and tips on finding gluten free food on the go (my biggest trip up at this point).

I have fibromyalgia and had to cut all grains and sugars, not just gluten, and increased my protein and fat until I was above 1400 net. Within a week the weight started falling off and headaches/fatigue/muscle aches/nerve weirdness/pain all went completely away. I've found that a lot of the gluten-free foods substitute other things that stall out my loss just as much, make me crave sugars more and increase my inflammation almost instantly.

TheFitnessTutor

you have to eat nothing for 72 hours to be in "starvation mode"

How many calories a day do you eat? If it is over zero then you are not in starvation mode...

Oh and in...for the oncoming eat more to lose more, TDEE, MFP eat back your exercise calories, and general storm that this thread will generate...

Bull

heybales

A similar case study was published by Jampolis (2004).

A 51 year old patient complained of a 15 lb weight gain over the last year despite beginning a strenuous triathlon and marathon training program (2 hours per day, 5-6 days per week).

A 3 day diet analysis estimated a daily intake of only 1000-1200 Calories.

An indirect calorimetry revealed a resting metabolic rate of 950 Calories (28% below predicted for age, height, weight, and gender).

After medications and medical conditions such as hypothyroidism and diabetes where ruled out, the final diagnosis was over-training and undereating. The following treatment was recommended:

Increase daily dietary intake by approximately 100 Calories per week to a goal of 1500 calories
32% protein; 35% carbohydrates; 33% fat
Consume 5-6 small meals per day
Small amounts of protein with each meal or snack
Choose high fiber starches
Select mono- and poly- unsaturated fats
Restrict consumption of starch with evening meals unless focused around training
Take daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement

Perform whole body isometric resistance training 2 times per week

After 6 weeks the patient's resting metabolism increased 35% to 1282 Calories per day (only 2% below predicted).

The patient also decreases percent fat from 37% to 34%, a loss of 5 lbs of body fat.

Jampolis MB (2004) Weight Gain - Marathon Runner / Triathlete. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 36(5) S148.

---

Now, obviously she didn't gain weight while actually eating at a deficit over that entire time, but suppressed metabolism does mean any vacation days, meals, falling off wagon, ect, all have chance to increase weight.

jentris

Thanks for the encouragement - yes. I see an endocrinologist for the PCOS and blood sugar stuff, unfortunately because my thyroid is "lab normal" (just within normal) - she so far won't treat me. I plan on going back in to her to bring up some of this stuff though... yet again. I've lost more hair (on the sides though - not in the typical PCOS spots), and my tongue has started swelling at night - I wake up with teeth marks in the side of it? Of course - if I haven't been eating enough then perhaps the hair is falling out due to that.

I have a few other hypothyroid symptoms, but again - always just within 'lab normal'.

When I was losing weight previously with the body for life - it was the same for me - several lbs one week, sometimes none for weeks - it's hard but you do learn to get through it. It took me 3 years to go from size 22 to 14, I lost 38 lbs and went from 50% body fat to 26% (caliper measurements). I still wasn't where I wanted to be when the shoulder injury happened, and then life after kids - I let it derail me. At this point I'd be totally stoked with 1/4 a lb a week average loss.
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Sometimes it is hard to find a doctor who will listen. My thyroid was " just within normal lab limits" when it was diagnosed. It took a doctor who plotted my results over the past two years and saw it go up, up, up clearly indicating an autoimmune hypothyroid condition. But a regular doctor looking at my labs would say I was fine. I take 5 mg of Cytomel in addition to my Synthroid and it makes a huge difference. I am also working very hard. I was also clearly "pre-diabetic/type 2 diabetes/insulin resistant".

I am also mostly gluten and grain free. Autoimmune conditions are very closely related. My digestion is a lot better since going GF and I no longer have symptoms of IBS. I didn't go through the extensive testing but it is clear that I am sensitive to gluten. I cheated last week and had the worst stomach symptoms. I also try to eat low sugar but chocolate gets me sometimes.

What about starting with exercise instead of diet? I find it hard to do both in the beginning. The exercise would boost your metabolism. I don't know your time limits but maybe 2 20 minute sessions of brisk walking at opposite ends of the day? Sometimes I think we have to trick our bodies and do something radically different to get it to move in the direction we want.

I think it is harder for those of us with metabolic syndromes but it is possible. I'm happy to support you through this journey!

TheFitnessTutor

you have to eat nothing for 72 hours to be in "starvation mode"

How many calories a day do you eat? If it is over zero then you are not in starvation mode...

Oh and in...for the oncoming eat more to lose more, TDEE, MFP eat back your exercise calories, and general storm that this thread will generate...

Bull

you have to eat nothing for 72 hours to be in "starvation mode"

How many calories a day do you eat? If it is over zero then you are not in starvation mode...

Oh and in...for the oncoming eat more to lose more, TDEE, MFP eat back your exercise calories, and general storm that this thread will generate...

right now averaging 800-1000 a day (so obviously more than 0). I've been at this level for about 4 months now. Prior to that it was even less (but with less exercise too). Exercise/activity right now is still pretty lame - just squats and lunges at home, arm lifts with the kiddos on "off days", walking about 2-3 miles at the gym either on the track, or elliptical - that's been about 3 times a week. Gardening now that summer is here. Daily attempts at stretching at home.

If you eat that low and not losing weight, your body has slowed its metabolism enough to somewhat counteract it (the so-called starvation mode). However, your body can't hang on to fat forever. After a while, maybe 6 months, something has got to give. Put simply, you can't eat 1000 calories a day forever and not lose weight, the question is how soon.

The reason people like slow but steady loss through a small deficit (instead of a large one like yours) is because they see some progress week after week, instead of a long plateau followed by a drastic loss.

Pure nonsense, as others are pointing out to you. You can eat low calories for a very long time without losing weight. And extremely rare people with low BMR????? This is rare?

We can call it "starvation mode" or " winnie the pooh " mode. Doesn't matter. Once you start losing weight, the metabolism is going to star slowing down or preparing itself to. Between leptin,glucagon respones and changes in Thyroid output to name a few.

The op... sounds like you have some serious issues to work through. If you are overweight and have insulin sensitivity issues usually people way smart than myself would recommend low carb approaches to help free up stored glycogen in the muscles and liver and thus increasing need/sensitivity to glucose and other receptors. If you're eating carbs, you're secreting more insulin there's no way around that. I'm not a fan of demonizing carbs but if you have a malfunction or disease then it's a different story.

Then of course the problem becomes getting in adequate caloric intake, and proper fiber and fat intake when someone has to undergo such a dietary approach. Proper fat intake and caloric intake is CRUCIAL if you're under nourished or doing lower carb approaches as most of you hormones are made from fat and amino(protein)based cycles and of course lower caloric intake will result in slower metabolic rate. You can eat higher calories with lower carb approaches.

Usually also higher rep, lower weight resistance training also helps deplete muscle glycogen and keep the system from "backing up" as far as glycogen(stored carbs) goes. Insulin sensitivity is basically a precursor to diabetes. The problem is that you have other things going on that is potentially clouding observation of how you react to other approaches. I don't think anyone on this forum can be of MUCH reliable assistance to you.
If you're tearing tendons, I mean noone here offering training protocol advise can help you much, and shouldn't be offering you much. You need to get to the bottom of that.

Wheat nowadays is very potentially crappy for various reasons, I would suggest going gluten free as well. I would also suggest vitamin D and Omega 3 supplementation, chances are you don't need any more omega 6 in your life so no need to buy a complex. Both omega 3 and vitamin d are crucial in proper function of the body and mot of us are lacking good amounts and ratios. I would highly consult with your physician about this but don't bet on them offering much advice on it unless they are interested in such. Just ask them if it would be ok.

I would be less concerned about losing weight and more about stabilization first. Too many people try to do some drastic change because they are fed up. I don't know your weight or stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if you would need to be eating 2000 or so calories on consistent daily basis....consistent. And yes, when in doubt, walking is all you need. Even light weight dumbbell work, high rep, while on the couch. But again, the tendon issue is limiting this. When you're insulin resistant, this also effects protein synthesis(tendons/muscles) as insulin basically tells cells to open the door for groceries, not just sugar. Thus amino acid supplementation could help. If you're not getting LIV (lucein, Isolucein and Valine) your 3 ESSENTIAL aminos into your cells youre going to have more issues. Essential aminos are ones you have to bring in from outside the body, you can produce them. Same with Omega three essential fatty acid. Also I've seen a dab of research suggesting changing protein quality and eating more fish can help with sensitivity. In a nutshell fish kicks *kitten*.. Choose a high omega 3 fish. Salmon of course, sardines(if you like that, ugh) smelt, herring, cod. Tilapia is a waste of time unless you just like the taste, and it's probably better than the average steak if its fresh and not farm raised. Dammit I want some fish tacos now.


I wish you well, I would certainly take most MFP advice with a grain of salt, from what I've seen. That includes mine.

4_Lisa

Long and short of it is...

A- you don't want your body to start feeding on itself it will take the lean muscle first for the protein it contains, not the fat everyone hopes it will.

B- I've been there, if you aren't eating enough, your body simply hoards the food as fat, you need to eat enough so your body can function and build the fire to burn the fat.

The first while I ate more, yes I saw a gain because even though my body had enough food, it didn't know if it was going to continue to receive the food, so to protect itself it hung onto EVERYTHING I ate. And no it didn't take a few weeks... It took some playing around with amounts of calories to find my ultimate balance.I still experiment every now and then. If your metabolism is that screwed up, repairing it should be your FIRST priority, not loosing weight. Once that is working as it should, the rest will come.

A positive response - thank you I agree - repairing it should be my first priority. And honestly I know from experience that focusing on how I'm feeling and meeting goals OTHER than weightloss are more encouraging for me. The weightloss when it was happening was slow enough that focusing on that alone was discouraging. meeting lifting goals, speed goals, meeting nutrition percentage goals and intake - all more productive for me. Focusing on the scale ended up forcing me into unhealthy thinking in the past, discouragement, and it never gave me any insight into body composition either.

Anyhow if it's okay to ask - How long did it take you to repair your metabolism... years? If that's too personal - tell me to shove it lol I'm okay with that.

How did you know (or suspect) that you'd found the right balance?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions of everyone - the thing is I didn't come here to whine and whinge, I came posting to try to find answers and FIX it.

I have been mistreating my body for years, I'm still working on repairing it.granted for me eating around the 1450-1500 cal mark is about where I generally stay now, just because this is where I feel most comfortable. It took a long time to be able to eat enough to make the calorie goals. It has been about 8 months now working with my trainer to find balance. I am at a point that the weight is anywhere from 4lbs lost a week to gaining weight. The positives of it all are getting good nutrition to fuel your body for whatever activity you do. I found the more natural, less processed I ate, the faster it started coming off. Almost like my body realized that I was taking the time. Everyone is different.

belgerian

No from what ive read and understand this does not even happen till your BF percentage gets below 12 percent or so. WHat can happen is your Metabolism may slow down a bit but this can easily be offset by excercise. This is how very obese ppl loose it either very quickly under a physicians care either with bypass, lap bands, or in hospital on a very restrictive diet. Emphisise under a physicians care.

belgerian

Of course you can.... your body just eats muscle leaving you with fat. The longer you do it, the more time it will take to reverse the damage you have done to your metabolism. It can be done though, I've seen folks in their 50s turn it all around with patience, dedication and hard work

any links to a program you've seen used with success?

I can't really comment on a specific program.. all I can say though is of what I've seen, the people involved upped their calories and properly nourished their bodies. I think you mentioned having some health issues, I would ask around and see if there is anyone else out there who has the same one and ask what they are doing. If I had the same issues, I would happily oblige.

I was on a 1600 cal diet excersised and most of what I lost was fat sure there was some muscle also but I was about 100lb overweight. Again if your below X BF percentage then yes this might be true but realistically most of us are not.

toutmonpossible

And I don't look at it so much as starvation mode, more like a squirrel collecting stores for the winter... It collects and hangs onto everything cause you never know what is coming later.

this is more how I see it also - and I can see now that using the terminology "starvation mode" has some negative connotations associations with it (read flame inducing)

The topic comes up at least twice a day. Short answer: If you're overweight you are in no danger of "starvation mode." It takes weeks or months of eating virtually nothing.

There seem to be many potential reasons for your failure to lose weight. You have illnesses, you are unable to be fully active and you're not following a plan or tracking. I would consult a doctor and a nutrition specialist. This does not sound like a situation that you should plunge into without thought.

toutmonpossible

It is actually quite difficult to go into starvation mode, especially if you are eating regularly. It's like the whole "I gained a lb but I have been exercising so it must be muscle" - Maybe but unlikely, it takes longer than a dew days at the gym to build 1lb of pure muscle.

You cannot be an over weight person, eat low calories and not lose weight. Metabolism may well slow but it soon picks up again.

So how would you explain what's been happening to me?

Many people miscalculate their calorie consumption and energy expenditure. You may have complicating factors.

JavaJael

It is actually quite difficult to go into starvation mode, especially if you are eating regularly. It's like the whole "I gained a lb but I have been exercising so it must be muscle" - Maybe but unlikely, it takes longer than a dew days at the gym to build 1lb of pure muscle.

You cannot be an over weight person, eat low calories and not lose weight. Metabolism may well slow but it soon picks up again.

So how would you explain what's been happening to me?

Many people miscalculate their calorie consumption and energy expenditure. You may have complicating factors.

Yes I agree - many people do. Unfortunately I don't believe I have been this time around. I have no way to prove it though do I? I've run into this problem before. The only person I'm hurting if I'm not 100% honest about this stuff - is myself. At this point I wish I could find a hospital program and check into it - have THEM feed me and measure it and keep me under observation 24/7.

So believe me or not - that's your choice. In the end I have to find my own way through this. In regards to your next post down - I HAVE Been tracking, not necessarily here at MFP the whole time, but I have been.

belgerian

I have not read the forums but it is my understanding and a little bit of common sense and a study done that no you will not hit so called starvation mode unitl youir BF hits around 10 percent. Your metabalism will slow down (some may call this starvation mode) but this can easily be offset by excersise. And you may loose more muscle then you would care to along with the fat but my opinion is no. I was at about 280 cut down to a 1600 cal diet and excersised 4-6 times a week and stay active at work so in reality by with my BMR and TDEE I was probably in the negative on calorie intake some would call that starvation mode but the weight came off actually fairly quickly along with some muscle loss. I have maintained for close to 2 years now at my current weight and I feel great. here a link to the study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment. come to your own conclusions.