CICO
Replies
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Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »Adding a bunch of minute complications to something that already works might be a good way to discourage a whole lot of people.
The beauty of CICO is in its simplicity and accessibility.
Bears repeating.
If you want something else to take on board, here are my thoughts.
OP, You are reducing this to a matter of physical and mathematical functions, and I can tell you right now that food is a much more complicated subject than that.
We all have a relationship with food, and for those of us who have become overweight, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a dysfunctional one. That relationship can carry with it a host of lovely companions like guilt, denial, shame, scapegoating, self-loathing, and a host of other issues.
Unless and until a person is able to sift through all this baggage that comes along for the ride when it comes to food, every effort to get somewhere with dieting will ultimately fail.
Frankly, and I am being blunt here, OP... you are striking me as a person desperate for answers, but you are looking in the wrong place.
I agree that there are a lot of mental and psychological issues with loosing weight as you stated and I think you are wise to remember that.
There is some tie-in here with that though. If more understanding of the physical side were known and good easy recommendations made, then it could help those that struggle.
I probably should take this elsewhere. I will be blunt too. I don't think many people here have a clue about math and what I'm saying so a lot of it falls on deaf ears. I do think that there are a lot of people here with some good physiology knowledge (a lot better than mine). But until the two get together, progress in what I've suggested won't get very far. I'm not desperate, just curious.
Give some practical suggestions, then.
You are the one who wants to bring more to the table. Well, bring it.
What do you think this break-through in math will do for the person struggling?
The model would have to be developed 1st to make practicle recommendations.
Looks like a good project for you then.
I'm woefully short on the biology and chemistry. I have a descent basis in math. I would like to read some papers though.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
Promoting a user eating 800-1000 calories at 5'6" and 200 lbs is a demonstration that you don't understand how this works. She's not only under eating and likely malnourished, but clearly not logging properly because at 5'1" and 114 lbs, I can lose at more than 1200 calories.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
There is NO WAY you were logging accurately. You can eat more than 1200 calories (and absolutely should be) and still lose. I guarantee it. What you're doing is unhealthy.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
Promoting a user eating 800-1000 calories at 5'6" and 200 lbs is a demonstration that you don't understand how this works. She's not only under eating and likely malnourished, but clearly not logging properly because at 5'1" and 114 lbs, I can lose at more than 1200 calories.
What she said. LOL0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »Adding a bunch of minute complications to something that already works might be a good way to discourage a whole lot of people.
The beauty of CICO is in its simplicity and accessibility.
Bears repeating.
If you want something else to take on board, here are my thoughts.
OP, You are reducing this to a matter of physical and mathematical functions, and I can tell you right now that food is a much more complicated subject than that.
We all have a relationship with food, and for those of us who have become overweight, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a dysfunctional one. That relationship can carry with it a host of lovely companions like guilt, denial, shame, scapegoating, self-loathing, and a host of other issues.
Unless and until a person is able to sift through all this baggage that comes along for the ride when it comes to food, every effort to get somewhere with dieting will ultimately fail.
Frankly, and I am being blunt here, OP... you are striking me as a person desperate for answers, but you are looking in the wrong place.
I agree that there are a lot of mental and psychological issues with loosing weight as you stated and I think you are wise to remember that.
There is some tie-in here with that though. If more understanding of the physical side were known and good easy recommendations made, then it could help those that struggle.
I probably should take this elsewhere. I will be blunt too. I don't think many people here have a clue about math and what I'm saying so a lot of it falls on deaf ears. I do think that there are a lot of people here with some good physiology knowledge (a lot better than mine). But until the two get together, progress in what I've suggested won't get very far. I'm not desperate, just curious.
Give some practical suggestions, then.
You are the one who wants to bring more to the table. Well, bring it.
What do you think this break-through in math will do for the person struggling?
The model would have to be developed 1st to make practicle recommendations.
Looks like a good project for you then.
I'm woefully short on the biology and chemistry. I have a descent basis in math. I would like to read some papers though.
This is going to sound snarky, but it's honestly not meant to be.
If you don't have the knowledge of science to achieve such a model, how do you know it's even worth creating? Don't you think people who are knowledgeable in those things are considering far more variables than you have and if they haven't come up with it yet...isn't it just a moot point until they do? If you can't create the model and can't make suggestions, then what is the purpose of arguing?0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.1 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
Promoting a user eating 800-1000 calories at 5'6" and 200 lbs is a demonstration that you don't understand how this works. She's not only under eating and likely malnourished, but clearly not logging properly because at 5'1" and 114 lbs, I can lose at more than 1200 calories.
Your most likely right about her. I do think some people will not put on fat though even if they overeat.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
You are not the first person to make these sorts of comparisons/assertions.
Most of the time, assessments like these, were they to be actually scientifically scrutinized, don't bear up.
Recalls of seriously low dietary intake like your 800-1000 calories? I could, if I were so inclined right now, pull up all sorts of facts and figures on how woefully miserable we all are at estimating caloric intake.
The fact is that, barring extreme medical circumstances, there really, truly is very little individual variation. No matter how much you want there to be.
You're looking in the wrong place for your answers.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
Promoting a user eating 800-1000 calories at 5'6" and 200 lbs is a demonstration that you don't understand how this works. She's not only under eating and likely malnourished, but clearly not logging properly because at 5'1" and 114 lbs, I can lose at more than 1200 calories.
Your most likely right about her. I do think some people will not put on fat though even if they overeat.
All people will gain weight with excess calories. It's not magic. The people you are referring to are probably more active or burn at a higher rate than you know. If you calculated each of their TDEEs you'd likely see that.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.
I would ask "what does?" But I know your answer is a convoluted guess. Again, not being snarky, but honestly - no such model exists from VERY educated people in biology, chemistry, math, fitness, nutrition, or any other field to prove that this happens - which says something.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.
I have issues with gout. I take allopurinol which keeps my body from producing uric acid even if I dump a lot of purine rich food into it. There are enzymes necessary to store fat. If that is inhibited or rate limited and can't keep up with excess cals, then not as much weight will be stored.0 -
Here, watch these if you think people are so different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA9AdlhB18o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTr1JUvEiUU 0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.
I would ask "what does?" But I know your answer is a convoluted guess. Again, not being snarky, but honestly - no such model exists from VERY educated people in biology, chemistry, math, fitness, nutrition, or any other field to prove that this happens - which says something.
Ok. I say it's worth working on. I'm sure people are working on it.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.
I have issues with gout. I take allopurinol which keeps my body from producing uric acid even if I dump a lot of purine rich food into it. There are enzymes necessary to store fat. If that is inhibited or rate limited and can't keep up with excess cals, then not as much weight will be stored.
This really doesn't stand up though. There are medications with the goal of inhibiting fat absorption and there have been plenty of threads showing that they don't work and cause AWFUL bodily reactions (don't believe me? Search Orlistat in the threads) If some people's bodies excreted fat this way, we'd know about it.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.
You were burning more than you were eating. Simple.0 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
Promoting a user eating 800-1000 calories at 5'6" and 200 lbs is a demonstration that you don't understand how this works. She's not only under eating and likely malnourished, but clearly not logging properly because at 5'1" and 114 lbs, I can lose at more than 1200 calories.
Your most likely right about her. I do think some people will not put on fat though even if they overeat.
All people will gain weight with excess calories. It's not magic. The people you are referring to are probably more active or burn at a higher rate than you know. If you calculated each of their TDEEs you'd likely see that.
Or they just don't store fat. Either is possible.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.
You were burning more than you were eating. Simple.
Or I was excreting it.0 -
So wait, this entire thread is completely academic, based on OPs opinion that it can't be as simple as CICO?0
-
jennifer_417 wrote: »So wait, this entire thread is completely academic, based on OPs opinion that it can't be as simple as CICO?
Yup. It's all theory. Because... well, if I said what I was really thinking I don't think the mods would like it.1 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.
You were burning more than you were eating. Simple.
Or I was excreting it.
They should really study you. You might be the answer to our world's obesity crisis.1 -
Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
I really believe there are people for when CI is greater than CO, they won't put on fat and it is excreted. Why? Can we turn that on in all of us? I used to be like that.
Fat does not magically get excreted from the body in certain people. You were likely more active than you knew and when you were younger, your metabolism was higher.
I don't think that explains all of it.
I have issues with gout. I take allopurinol which keeps my body from producing uric acid even if I dump a lot of purine rich food into it. There are enzymes necessary to store fat. If that is inhibited or rate limited and can't keep up with excess cals, then not as much weight will be stored.
This really doesn't stand up though. There are medications with the goal of inhibiting fat absorption and there have been plenty of threads showing that they don't work and cause AWFUL bodily reactions (don't believe me? Search Orlistat in the threads) If some people's bodies excreted fat this way, we'd know about it.
I would be leary for anyone to take any meds except in extreme circumstances (way over weight people). I try not to take meds mysekf and when I stop loosing weight, I hope to be able to get off my allopurinol.
I don't know if this works, but I've read some people claim that apple cider vinager and also lemon juice can help a persom lose weight. If those work, a person should be able to do that without hurting themselves to augment a CICO based diet. I think fasting might have some benefits also but do not have proof if this.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.
You were burning more than you were eating. Simple.
Or I was excreting it.
They should really study you. You might be the answer to our world's obesity crisis.
Little snarky but not bad.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »So wait, this entire thread is completely academic, based on OPs opinion that it can't be as simple as CICO?
Yup. It's all theory. Because... well, if I said what I was really thinking I don't think the mods would like it.
You have totally missed my point.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »So wait, this entire thread is completely academic, based on OPs opinion that it can't be as simple as CICO?
Yup. It's all theory. Because... well, if I said what I was really thinking I don't think the mods would like it.
You have totally missed my point.
No, we really haven't.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »Didn't think my reply was that complex. I stated right at the start that CICO is the beginning.
I do believe there is individual variation though. That isn't an excuse (stinks, but not an excuse). Some people are able to maintain a lower weight while eating more and/or moving less.
My brother and I grew up in the same home eating the same food and running around the neighborhood, riding our bikes, etc. He was always slim and I was always thick.
My 10 year old daughter is about 5 foot tall and 110 pounds. I'm 5'6 an presently over 200 pounds. She can out eat me anytime and usually does. Heck, she eats as much as my 6'1 220ish husband. She does have recess at school, but no special exercise program or sports. I walk if the weather is any good at all, about an hour.
Which is a long way of saying that it isn't all that helpful to shout CICO at someone who is struggling. Yes, they may need to eat less/move more, but that doesn't mean that they aren't presently following the guidelines on the site that are supposed to produce weight loss.
I was 200 pounds and my adult height at age 13. I've been as high as 280. Lowest weight I've ever achieved at my adult height was about 160 and that was eating 800-1000 calories a day/high protein. Ate that way for about 8 months to get there. Couldn't maintain it, tried to find a moderate spot to maintain at, might have been able to stick at 175, but had a lot of stress (multiple moves, loss) and here I am at it again....1200 or less a day because I am hoping to find something I can stick with.
What she said.
What she said doesn't hold up. It's not a new story around these parts. And it's not true. There's very little (not even statistically significant) individual variation.
There are no naturally "thin" or "thick" people.
I do not concur. I have known people who force fed themselves (me) and couldn't gain weight.
You were burning more than you were eating. Simple.
Or I was excreting it.
They should really study you. You might be the answer to our world's obesity crisis.
Little snarky but not bad.
Gah. No matter what I say I sound like a jerk. But I'm serious - if you really excrete fat and can lose or maintain without having to exercise or moderate your eating, you're an anomaly.0
This discussion has been closed.
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