Study finds vegetarian diets may actually be worse for the environment
Replies
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BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
This is why you're one of my favorite vegans on the site; I actually usually forget you are one...
Wait. A vegan with whom it's possible to forget he's vegan???
I didn't realize these even existed.
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
This is why you're one of my favorite vegans on the site; I actually usually forget you are one...
Wait. A vegan with whom it's possible to forget he's vegan???
I didn't realize these even existed.
Apparently I'm a unicorn. That's ok.. who needs more than one deadly spike growing from their body? Seems plenty to me.0 -
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PikaKnight wrote: »
I was going to make a more risque joke about rack of lamb but I googled "anthro lamb", and now I can never unsee what I've seen.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »
I was going to make a more risque joke about rack of lamb but I googled "anthro lamb", and now I can never unsee what I've seen.
*must...resist...urge...to look....*0 -
Saw an article which says that study did NOT say that vegetarian diets were bad for the environment:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/vegetarian-bad-for-environment-debunked_567072d7e4b0e292150f95a40 -
"Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.0 -
"Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.
I like to add, buying and using only what you need for meals. Throwing out food because it went bad is wasteful.0 -
PikaKnight wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »
I was going to make a more risque joke about rack of lamb but I googled "anthro lamb", and now I can never unsee what I've seen.
*must...resist...urge...to look....*
just do not do. . . .it. . . . .let it go. . . . ..walk away. . . . .
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »
I was going to make a more risque joke about rack of lamb but I googled "anthro lamb", and now I can never unsee what I've seen.
*must...resist...urge...to look....*
just do not do. . . .it. . . . .let it go. . . . ..walk away. . . . .
It's not good
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queenliz99 wrote: »"Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.
I like to add, buying and using only what you need for meals. Throwing out food because it went bad is wasteful.
Agreed. I'm working on that one, myself, getting better at it. It would be nice if the packaging for a lot of stuff (e.g. veg at my local/cheapest grocery store) were less "family sized" so that as a single person, I wouldn't have to expend as much effort in managing food storage and planning, but just planning better helps a lot. (Although I am still very unlikely to blanch half a cabbage for freezing. Cabbage is a real problem.)0 -
If I'm required to listen to the wait staff tell me how many calories are in what I'm ordering out loud, it could backfire as I would feel pitiful ever ordering a salad again."Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.0 -
Actually no. Certain land would more efficiently produce calories for humans by using it for animal products of one kind or another. A vegan diet is more sustainable than SAD, but 100% human veganism would not be more sustainable than small amounts of animal products.Pretty2Petite wrote: »Excuse me ? Vegetarianism should be a start to transition into veganism. The milk industry is still cruel as well as egg industry.vegan is the best possible way to sustain the environment. With that said... The amount of water to produce a pound of beef could allow you to shower for 6 months. The amount of grain fed to animals for slaughter could end world hunger. I'd say vegetarianism does do a fair bit. Carnists have no excuses so seriously stop trying
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If I'm required to listen to the wait staff tell me how many calories are in what I'm ordering out loud, it could backfire as I would feel pitiful ever ordering a salad again."Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.
Ok yes, fair enough. I can barely get through listening to the daily specials. I would not ask anyone to suffer that.
OH you mean possible shaming for underwhelming counts. Or overwhelming ones maybe too. Yes, also against that.0 -
Shown as $/calorie or % water a salad would be shunned by many.0
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pandabear_ wrote: »Saw an article which says that study did NOT say that vegetarian diets were bad for the environment:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/vegetarian-bad-for-environment-debunked_567072d7e4b0e292150f95a4
This was pointed out in the thread a really long time ago. It's even in the linked article in the first post.
I agree, of course, but I get frustrated with people not reading the thread before responding.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »"Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.
I like to add, buying and using only what you need for meals. Throwing out food because it went bad is wasteful.
Agreed. I'm working on that one, myself, getting better at it. It would be nice if the packaging for a lot of stuff (e.g. veg at my local/cheapest grocery store) were less "family sized" so that as a single person, I wouldn't have to expend as much effort in managing food storage and planning, but just planning better helps a lot. (Although I am still very unlikely to blanch half a cabbage for freezing. Cabbage is a real problem.)
I just roast an entire head after slicing into 1 inch slices. So good, and I'll eat it over the next few days.0 -
Pretty2Petite wrote: »Excuse me ? Vegetarianism should be a start to transition into veganism. The milk industry is still cruel as well as egg industry.vegan is the best possible way to sustain the environment. With that said... The amount of water to produce a pound of beef could allow you to shower for 6 months. The amount of grain fed to animals for slaughter could end world hunger. I'd say vegetarianism does do a fair bit. Carnists have no excuses so seriously stop trying
You know the best possible way to sustain the environment? If people stop having so many damn kids. the earth cannot sustain the quantity! (ok, end side bar).
In all seriousness, there will be this study, then a bunch of other ones saying the opposite, and back and forth we go. Eat what you like. Don't overeat. Be responsible with what you buy and don't be wasteful. But veganism is not the answer.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
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FunkyTobias wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Mel Brooks....History of the World.....what a show.......the Inquisition. . . .
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Mel Brooks....History of the World.....what a show.......the Inquisition. . . .
I'm still waiting on "Jews in Space", flying around defending the human race.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Mel Brooks....History of the World.....what a show.......the Inquisition. . . .
I'm still waiting on "Jews in Space", flying around defending the human race.
I'm still waiting for part II :grumble: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I've been a vegan for a long time... but even I don't get along with "those" types. It's a diverse world, people... let's remember that it takes all kinds and no one way is optimal for everyone, not even practical for everyone.
Ethical standpoints aside, I can't think of a single time that strict, fundamentalist dogma like that serves any positive purpose... unless we are talking about how effective the Spanish inquisition was, or something like that. (Not really positive, but can't deny the effectiveness there)
I expected quite a bit from this thread, but I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Mel Brooks....History of the World.....what a show.......the Inquisition. . . .
I'm still waiting on "Jews in Space", flying around defending the human race.
*ahem*
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queenliz99 wrote: »"Update: This story received criticism from our readers. Since it was originally published, we’ve updated the article with some new information and context (see below)."
^^ least surprising outcome. I have a bunch of live-and-let-live veggie friends, but heavily political vegetarians aren't unknown for their dedication.
"In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions."
^^ (another) good argument for getting serious about policies that will help people eat less. Like making restaurants use normal portion sizes as their default & post nutritional info in big print and plain language at the point of ordering, and requiring food manufacturers to provide nutritional info consistent with (realistic) serving sizes.
I like to add, buying and using only what you need for meals. Throwing out food because it went bad is wasteful.
Agreed. I'm working on that one, myself, getting better at it. It would be nice if the packaging for a lot of stuff (e.g. veg at my local/cheapest grocery store) were less "family sized" so that as a single person, I wouldn't have to expend as much effort in managing food storage and planning, but just planning better helps a lot. (Although I am still very unlikely to blanch half a cabbage for freezing. Cabbage is a real problem.)
I just roast an entire head after slicing into 1 inch slices. So good, and I'll eat it over the next few days.
I get cabbage from my CSA (lots in the late fall), and do the same or even just cut off chunks to roast. I find cabbage lasts a good long time, also, so even with just me I can finish it.
I think eating from a CSA has trained me to finish up vegetables and be creative in how I use them, so when I have the luxury of buying whatever from the store (in the winter), I find it really easy to use them up and the sizes seem, if anything, too small. I do eat lots of veg, though.0
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