Sugars/Intolerance? Help me Understand.
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arditarose wrote: »I'm PMing you to avoid a dumpster fire here.
I wish you would post here because I would love to know you opinions.
So here is my experience with food allergies and it has yet been explained to me.
If i eat even a part of an oyster, sallop, mussel or clam I feel like I am being stabbed in the stomach and i spend the night snuggling some porcelain instead of my wife. Found this out on a business trip and confirm on my first vday with the wife... sexy right?
This is the interesting one... I can eat a limited quantity of shrimp (<6 small or 3-4 large) pieces of shrimp... after that, hives, throat closing and anaphylaxic shock. So most people assume shelf fish.... nope... i can pound lobster and crab like its my job. Seriously, 3 lbs of snow crab or 2.5 lbs of lobster with not issue. It makes me sad because i love shrimp cocktail.
So basically, allergies can be tricky lol. I would really rather not do an elimination diet. bleh
I found out mine from through accidental confirmation ... aka i did it twice and saw the same thing and i compared notes on the foods i ate.
You could start there and then replicate the day with different quantities or combinations. Sometimes its not just foods but the quantity.
I would say, i think if i had 6 apples i would probably feel that way too...0 -
That sounds scary.
I wish I knew of a way other than medical testing. The only thing I know possible to do on yr own is to do sort of an elimination diet experiment where you eliminate one thing at a time, or else eliminate all the possibles and reintroduce one thing at a time, keeping a journal of what you ate and how you felt each day. 0 -
JanetYellen wrote: »Could it be an allergy to gluten?
Not if apples caused it. Gluten is in wheat, barley and rye.
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arditarose wrote: »Have you noticed similar reactions after low carb meals?
Generally pain would indicate an allergy (in my experience). You could try some protocols of cutting out foods and then incorporating them back in to determine the source of pain.
No. I started paying attention because I thought it could just be water retention/sodium issue on some of my more extravagant days but really I am a sodium monster 7 days out of the week so I don't think that's it. Mostly carbs, admittedly when I go quite hard/over eat...but not always. Sometimes it'll happen with a moderate amount.
Removing the anomaly of 6 apples, do you recognize it more with ultra processed foods, natural foods or both (food agnostic but possibly gram dependant)0 -
If you don't have health insurance, here's what I'd do in your shoes (I was having bizarre symptoms myself for a long time, to food, and this is what I ended up doing until I could get diagnosed).
1. If you are a healthy weight, and getting enough nutrients, I'd consider dropping the 8 major allergens (wheat (gluten is easier to do, honestly), eggs, dairy, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, shellfish, and fish...plus sesame and sulfites, is usually good). I would ditch these ingredients as though you are allergic, so no ingredients derived from either (like natural flavors - can be from gluten).
2. After this, you're pretty much going to be making food from scratch, even condiments and salad dressing, because you just can't avoid all of those ingredients and buy pre-made food, typically.
3. Which makes it easier to do this: start a food journal. Usually, one would just write down food eaten, time, and then note symptoms and time when they show up. However, since you are having symptoms that you think may be quantity dependent, I'd personally write down food including amount of food, plus the time, and make sure the severity of the symptoms is noted. You want to write down EVERY item included in the food that you ingest, including oils or salt (some salt brands add things like corn - to stabilize iodine - so this actually can make a difference).
Do this for a few weeks, and then see what connections you can make.
There are a number of what are currently called intolerances (very poorly named, because it really just means that the body doesn't tolerate them, but can be for many reasons) that are in numerous, seemingly unrelated foods, so might be worth exploring when you are checking your food journal over.
1. Fructose malabsorption - a low FODMAP diet is required for this. The Monash University has the best, most up to date information I've seen on this yet. Involves a lot of carbs, especially fruits and veggies with more carbs.
2. sulfite sensitivity - some people with this can also have issues with foods high in sulfur, like eggs, broccoli, onions, and so on. But apples is typically not the issue, so this seems less likely.
3. Salicylate sensitivity - needs a low sals diet
4. histamine intolerance - needs a low histamine diet
5. sensitivity to taurines - need to eat low taurines
6. There's a few others that are simply intolerances to certain proteins. Sometimes it's a problem with a few of them at once, so it's really simple intolerances or low level allergies, but they just have to be hunted down. They CAN cause full body pain, and the intolerances seem more likely to cause pain the next day as opposed to right after eating.
7. An odd one, but could apply - celiac disease. This involves the body attacking its intestines when gluten - even tiny particles or contamination of it - are ingested. For at least a third of people with this, they can have NO symptoms when they eat gluten and don't start noticing OTHER problems when they eat. For example, the villi that are destroyed by this are where certain enzymes are made, like those that help digest lactose, or digesting certain sugars, which would be more commonly found in high carb foods. The trouble with this is that it takes weeks for the body to heal on a gluten free diet, so it takes a while of being gluten free (at celiac level compliance, which you 'd need to research) before symptoms start to improve. So this one wouldnt' have a quick fix. But it can cause pain, inflammation, muscle aches, all sorts of stuff that is usually not mentioned outside of literature shared among experts, :-/
8. Parasites or diseases- some parasites, like giardia, are affected by diet. Some diseases like lyme disease are affected by diet. And can cause more symptoms when you eat certain foods. I know gluten seems to have a negative impact on lyme disease.
9. carbohydrate intolerance - this is typically due to a lack of certain enzymes, or too low levels (again, celiac disease could potentially affect this, from what I read). But it doesn't seem to cause the level of pain you are experiencing.
I wish you well - it took me a few years to find out what was going on with my own body (mast cell activation disorder), but there's SO much more information out there that I hope you can figure it out faster!
Excuse me, but as a person with confirmed celiac, I have to say it took years for my intestines to heal and starting year five totally compliant with a GF diet, my kidneys still aren't functioning normally, although they are slowly improving.0 -
I'm PMing you to avoid a dumpster fire here.
I wish you would post here because I would love to know you opinions.
So here is my experience with food allergies and it has yet been explained to me.
If i eat even a part of an oyster, sallop, mussel or clam I feel like I am being stabbed in the stomach and i spend the night snuggling some porcelain instead of my wife. Found this out on a business trip and confirm on my first vday with the wife... sexy right?
This is the interesting one... I can eat a limited quantity of shrimp (<6 small or 3-4 large) pieces of shrimp... after that, hives, throat closing and anaphylaxic shock. So most people assume shelf fish.... nope... i can pound lobster and crab like its my job. Seriously, 3 lbs of snow crab or 2.5 lbs of lobster with not issue. It makes me sad because i love shrimp cocktail.
I'm posting this with great reluctance because I know a lot of people like to demonize carbs and sugar for the wrong reasons and have some ridiculous debates about food addiction/bingeing, but I digress...
The gist of my PM was this:
- An allergy is the most likely culprit because pain that intermittent and fairly immediate after eating is most likely inflammation.
- The two scenarios where I have heard of similar symptoms are (1) anorexics after a binge and (2) post fairly heavy drinking. (Just to be clear, I'm not calling OP anorexic or a binge eater) My thoughts were that because I know she is bulking and cutting, the increases in calories after a cut or overages during a cut could contribute. I know her gap is not nearly as severe as an anorexic however, which makes me think that's not as likely. As to the drinking, she has identified alcohol as a trigger (though the reason hasn't been identified.) There are some people who are more sensitive to alcohol genetically, but also just a general hangover can cause this feeling....but I would also potentially consider its common ingredients with other foods instead since she isn't often drinking heavily, leading me to this:
- Sugar. I don't have evidence to back this up, and I don't typically believe in the necessity of tracking sugar and reducing it significantly, BUT... I have been reading some anecdotes of people with her symptoms who have reduced sugar and seen a resolution.
Ultimately, the suggestions of an elimination diet or food diary are the best bet, because it's likely to be what a doctor recommends anyway.
But we all know that's not fun 0 -
What kinds of carb-heavy foods are these? There are allergens in apples that are similar to many other fruit and nut species, so people with some allergies might be allergic to apples, peaches, apricots, cherries, etc.
Do you have other allergies? Do antihistamines produce any relief when these symptoms appear?0 -
I would start by noting in your diary each time this happens. You can then go back And see what may be in common on these days. It may have not been the apples but instead something else you ate before the apples. So I would pay close attention to this when it happens.
I would also start saving up for a trip to the doctor. If it really is bothering you, it's worth seeing a professional. If you put 20$ aside per week, you could afford a visit shortly. There are also public health clinics that are available to those who are not insured that use a sliding scale payment method. They go by how much you make to determine what they will charge you.
Sometimes putting ourselves first is necessary. You don't know what's going on so its really worth having the proper tests run. Sometimes we have to help ourselves.
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OP, if eating less fixes the problem, then just eat less until you have insurance and can be allergy tested. you know the solution even if you don't know the problem's medical name.0
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arditarose wrote: »Have you noticed similar reactions after low carb meals?
Generally pain would indicate an allergy (in my experience). You could try some protocols of cutting out foods and then incorporating them back in to determine the source of pain.
No. I started paying attention because I thought it could just be water retention/sodium issue on some of my more extravagant days but really I am a sodium monster 7 days out of the week so I don't think that's it. Mostly carbs, admittedly when I go quite hard/over eat...but not always. Sometimes it'll happen with a moderate amount.
Removing the anomaly of 6 apples, do you recognize it more with ultra processed foods, natural foods or both (food agnostic but possibly gram dependant)
Nah. I ate a beautiful/upscale restaurant with homemade fresh bread a few weeks ago. I had rabbit, pancetta wrapped chicken livers, a two glasses of wine, and as much bread as I wanted because it was my birthday. Later that night I had pretzels. The next day I was sore. I am pretty sure I would not have been sore if I had not eaten the bread and pretzels. Pretzels were obviously processed. I don't know. I'm confused.0 -
MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »OP, if eating less fixes the problem, then just eat less until you have insurance and can be allergy tested. you know the solution even if you don't know the problem's medical name.
Yeah, this is my take on it too.
I guess what I really wanted from this thread was to understand the difference in carbs/sugar...from fruit, to bread, etc.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »What kinds of carb-heavy foods are these? There are allergens in apples that are similar to many other fruit and nut species, so people with some allergies might be allergic to apples, peaches, apricots, cherries, etc.
Do you have other allergies? Do antihistamines produce any relief when these symptoms appear?
No other allergies. A few weeks ago I noticed an itchiness in my throat after eating a lot of kale...but it was only after eating a lot. Otherwise, a salad with a bit of kale has not produced that reaction.
Sometimes I'll take a tylenol when it hurts and it helps a bit.0 -
Every Saturday I enjoy a high calorie meal. The problem usually happens after this. Maybe I'll try to go just meat and veg for it, and still include a glass of wine and see how I feel.
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It could be a food sensitivity rather than an allergy. Food sensitivities can sstart to show symptoms within minutes or up to three days later... that's just when symptoms appear. They can last for hours, days or weeks. Plus the symptoms of food sensitivities goes beyond a tummy ache. Some people get ataxia, neuropathies, arthritis, migraines or just fatigued.
I would keep a food and symptoms journal for a few weeks. It could help you pin point things.
Ditto the others with checking blood glucose too. Keeping my blood glucose stable has dramatically reduced my pain levels.0 -
Okay...thanks guys. I was able to pinpoint the sugar/carb thing but maybe I can take it a step further.0
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arditarose wrote: »Every Saturday I enjoy a high calorie meal. The problem usually happens after this. Maybe I'll try to go just meat and veg for it, and still include a glass of wine and see how I feel.
Have you considered sulfurs in wine?0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »I would start by noting in your diary each time this happens. You can then go back And see what may be in common on these days. It may have not been the apples but instead something else you ate before the apples. So I would pay close attention to this when it happens.
I would also start saving up for a trip to the doctor. If it really is bothering you, it's worth seeing a professional. If you put 20$ aside per week, you could afford a visit shortly. There are also public health clinics that are available to those who are not insured that use a sliding scale payment method. They go by how much you make to determine what they will charge you.
Sometimes putting ourselves first is necessary. You don't know what's going on so its really worth having the proper tests run. Sometimes we have to help ourselves.
Yup, I definitely agree that a doctor is called for - even uninsured - but I'll reiterate that she needs to consider the insurance ramifications if it turns out she needs treatment. If she needs treatment, exploring her cheapest possible insurance options ahead of time could be a better bet. The Affordable Care Act subsidies or Medicaid would be potential options depending on her state & her income levels.
Essentially, while insurers can no longer disqualify or raise rates because of pre-existing conditions, if you don't have continuous health coverage (no more than 90 consecutive days uninsured) they may give you an 'exclusion period' of up to 12 months (18 if you enroll late) where any condition for which you received any medical advice, care, or diagnosis within the 6 months prior to your enrollment are not covered. After the exclusion period, insurance will cover it as normal. Essentially it's a way to ensure people don't just wait until they need insurance and then try to buy it.
However, if the condition is not one for which you've sought medical advice, the pre-existing condition exclusion won't apply.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »Every Saturday I enjoy a high calorie meal. The problem usually happens after this. Maybe I'll try to go just meat and veg for it, and still include a glass of wine and see how I feel.
Have you considered sulfurs in wine?
Not really since I don't always drink when it happens.0 -
I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
Ah. I'm a shy person. Now kind of regretting making this post.0 -
arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
Ah. I'm a shy person. Now kind of regretting making this post.
You are always so supportive, I think we all want to help you.
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queenliz99 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
Ah. I'm a shy person. Now kind of regretting making this post.
You are always so supportive, I think we all want to help you.
Thank you
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arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
Ah. I'm a shy person. Now kind of regretting making this post.
I'm sorry the question you really wanted the answer to isn't in my knowledge base
I wish I could help- I hate seeing a friend suffer. I know you're smart and can figure this out. You've done so well at getting I shape.0 -
arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
Ah. I'm a shy person. Now kind of regretting making this post.
I'm sorry the question you really wanted the answer to isn't in my knowledge base
I wish I could help- I hate seeing a friend suffer. I know you're smart and can figure this out. You've done so well at getting I shape.
It's not that bad. It happens when I over indulge. It's most likely my own fault. It is interesting though, as it's not a symptom every one gets when they over indulge.0 -
arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
I think the problem is nobody knows what you actually DO have, so it's all kind of speculative on what you would actually do to manage or treat this condition once it was diagnosed. Nothing so far sounds like a perfect fit for what you've described - fructose malabsorption would explain the broad spectrum of trigger foods, but normally causes primarily stomach discomfort, errors in fructose metabolism usually have much more severe symptoms, allergies could explain the symptoms but there's not a clear pattern pointing to an allergen or allergens.
I guess if you want to experiment, try a generic Allegra or Zyrtec next time - if it's a true food allergy (histamine-mediated) then they will likely improve your symptoms; if it's an intolerance, it won't have any effect.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I don't really understand what I would need "treatment" for, for those who are saying I need to see a doctor. I don't have a deadly allergy or anything.
I think the problem is nobody knows what you actually DO have, so it's all kind of speculative on what you would actually do to manage or treat this condition once it was diagnosed. Nothing so far sounds like a perfect fit for what you've described - fructose malabsorption would explain the broad spectrum of trigger foods, but normally causes primarily stomach discomfort, errors in fructose metabolism usually have much more severe symptoms, allergies could explain the symptoms but there's not a clear pattern pointing to an allergen or allergens.
I guess if you want to experiment, try a generic Allegra or Zyrtec next time - if it's a true food allergy (histamine-mediated) then they will likely improve your symptoms; if it's an intolerance, it won't have any effect.
Interesting. I take Allegra sometimes for general allergies. Maybe I'll pop one next time this happens.0 -
If you can pinpoint it to a specific meal maybe drop a component each week and see if it makes a difference. Doesn't seem like you need to do an overall elimination diet since you can pinpoint it somewhat.
I'm actually pro elimination diet -- my sister has IBS and managed to identify her triggers (weirdo stuff like melon and avocado and raw broccoli) and has done much better since, just from avoiding them.0 -
There are variety of treatment options depending on the severity of the issue. The question comes down to, is it an allergy or a bigger issue like @yarwell mention with diabetes. If you want to start with a standard elimination diet protocol that can get your started but if the signs still exist, then it can be a bigger issue.
For some, like my wife who was diagnosed with a medical condition, she has to take prescription supplements, has dietary restrictions and is now doing weekly IV bags for hydration (and for some time she was on beta blockers and a steroid). Her issue was discovered while she was dealing with pancreatitis but ultimately, she was tired often, had a lot of stomach issues.
The doctor route is generally the best as they can run test to eliminate major issues (vitamin/mineral deficiencies, disease like celiac, etc...)0 -
definately sounds like an allergy....0
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I'm PMing you to avoid a dumpster fire here.
I wish you would post here because I would love to know you opinions.
So here is my experience with food allergies and it has yet been explained to me.
If i eat even a part of an oyster, sallop, mussel or clam I feel like I am being stabbed in the stomach and i spend the night snuggling some porcelain instead of my wife. Found this out on a business trip and confirm on my first vday with the wife... sexy right?
This is the interesting one... I can eat a limited quantity of shrimp (<6 small or 3-4 large) pieces of shrimp... after that, hives, throat closing and anaphylaxic shock. So most people assume shelf fish.... nope... i can pound lobster and crab like its my job. Seriously, 3 lbs of snow crab or 2.5 lbs of lobster with not issue. It makes me sad because i love shrimp cocktail.
My husband is the same, allergic to shrimp only but other shellfish are fine. His allergist told him it was a particular protein unique to shrimp that he must be allergic to.
I also suspect I'm becoming less tolerant of mussels and clams, as you said, they seem fine going down but in the middle of the night I will be awakened with a painful and horrific bathroom experience. This is a relatively new development and at first I thought I just had the bad luck to get food poisoning twice in the same year but when it happened a third time and I started thinking of common elements, the steamed mussels (one of my all time favorite things - so sad!) seem to be the common denominator.
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Sorry to hear about your problem. It sounds painful and confusing.
I think the advice from @shaumom is great. I had chronic pain and inflammation that would flare up in my leg and wrist (previous injuries) and found that foods were a huge factor after doing an elimination diet. My worst triggers are processed meats, but I also get symptoms if I gorge on wheat products or sugar. While my experience is different from yours, I think you'd benefit from trying it out. Just google "the 4 R's of gut health" or something like that and you'll find a lot of good resources to follow. Basically, its Remove, Repair, Restore, Replace, which is referring to potential intolerances and gut health and flora.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/elimination-diet
Fruit sugar is fructose while sugar in cakes or breads might be regular white sugar (sucrose) or could be fructose (from high fructose corn syrup), depending on how it was made. HFCS is cheaper than white sugar. Sucrose will break down into glucose and fructose. Glucose and fructose are processed differently by the body.arditarose wrote: »What is the difference between sugars from an apple or added sugar in cakes or sugar in bread?
It's hard to say without more info, but I'd suspect fructose. Just cause your reaction to apples was so severe. Could be an apple-specific problem, though. Do you react to other fruits? Honey is pretty high in fructose. Do you react to that?
Fruits and vegetables don't just contain fructose. They also contain glucose and even sucrose, or where do you think white sugar comes from?0
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