Low Carb / High Fat Eating Plan
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It isn't necessarily a nutrient. Nutrients are things required to live period, not all things known to have health benefits. It is possible that certain phytochemicals making up fruits and vegetables have health benefits without being essential to human life._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Whoa.. wait, I thought that a micronutrient was the same from whatever source. What magical nutrients are only found in fruits and veggies?
Here's what we do. The American Cancer Institutes says that there is overwhelming evidence based on 150+ studies that 5+ surviving of fruit and vegetables reduce cancer risks, and mortality rates.
There are other studies, particularly I remember Harvard's health symposium lectures mentioning one of the, that show that people taking multi-vitamin and mineral supplements don't reliably show any particular decreases in health mortality rates from any outcome.
So, I would now make a subtractive inference. We know fruits and vegetables contain micronutrients and other stuff, and that between those two, they lower mortality incidence. We know know micronutrients on their own do not lower mortality incidence. Disjunctive syllogism seems to give me the inference that something in fruits and vegetables that is not micro-nutrients causes lower mortality incidence.
You have implied that these studies proved f/v intake caused reduced cancers and lowered mortality. It may be true, but it is not proven. With that said, I do think there is something there too and beleive whole natural foods are very desirable.
Other foods that contain phytochemicals - foods that most low carbers eat frequently - are nuts, seeds, some legumes, fungi, teas, coffees, wines, cocoa, herbs and spices and also eating in addition to fruits and vegetables. Over focusing on fruit and veggie intake alone for complex plant chemicals isn't really relevant to a low carber who is inclined toward minding something more than just macros.
It was enough to prove it to the American Cancer Institute. If you want to be hung up on what is proof, I have to tell you, there is no positive proof in science, it isn't how it works. All science can ever say is "we haven't found a contradicting evidence, yet".
The problem with the laundry list of items you've noted in ketogenic diets is ... they aren't fruits and vegetables, so we can't extrapolate that even if it is phytochemicals, that those things contain the phytochemicals that fruits and vegetables contain. The leading hypotheses tend to be that various phytochemicals have various health benefits, so that eating a variety, particularly a variety of colors, is important. In contrast, low carb, and particularly ketogenic diets are rather ... monochromatic.
I wonder, would a dog on ketogenic diet with mushrooms and coffee get the same benefits as a human does from a variety of fruits and vegetables?
I'm hung up on the perils of correlation, it makes for silly decision-making.
Ketogenic diets can easily work with fruit & veggie intake, along with a bunch of other natural foods containing phytochemicals. Anyone who cares about complete nutrition can make keto as nutritional as is important to them. It is not any different than any other diet.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Hmm, meta-studies as opposed to actual diet trials. There are a number of issues with this statistical epidemiology, whenever I see "fruits and vegetables" or other conflations like "red and processed meat" I am suspicious that the combination is being used to produce an outcome - red meat had no effect, processed did, so lump the two together and make a claim.
High levels of fruit intake were associated with ovarian cancer in one study (EPIC-OXFORD) whereas vegetables were protective (individual fruits and veg had various risk factors). By combining "fruit and veg" they could say "increased fruit and veg is associated with reduced cancer risk" in the headline, whle in the depths of the study owning up to the reality that vegetables were protective and high levels of fruit intake associated with increased cancer risk in this instance.
As for 5 to 8 servings of fruit and veg can I ask how many people eat this much, or is it just an extrapolation by an algorithm ? In the UK less than 30% of the population get to 5-a-day and it looks to be lower in the USA (although the scheme parameters vary by country).
Where are these 5-8 portions a day people, and are they confounded by being non-smoking wealthy teetotallers with health as their #1 priority ? Are they a statistically significant sample on which to base any policy ?
You want diet trials on fruits? And vegetables?
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What about eating beans to help lower insulin. Have you tried that or looked into it? Not saying it would definitely work for you. Just a suggestion.0
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Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
You can start with protein, 1g/lb lean body mass. I eat 115-120g protein.
I try to keep Carbs at 75g or less if I'm trying to lose body fat.
The rest is Fat. It's usually 45-50% of my cals each day.
I stay in a deficit if I consume 1600-1800cals/day ( and moderate exercise)
I lose rapidly doing this, 2lbs/week.
Great info! Thank you!0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Hmm, meta-studies as opposed to actual diet trials. There are a number of issues with this statistical epidemiology, whenever I see "fruits and vegetables" or other conflations like "red and processed meat" I am suspicious that the combination is being used to produce an outcome - red meat had no effect, processed did, so lump the two together and make a claim.
High levels of fruit intake were associated with ovarian cancer in one study (EPIC-OXFORD) whereas vegetables were protective (individual fruits and veg had various risk factors). By combining "fruit and veg" they could say "increased fruit and veg is associated with reduced cancer risk" in the headline, whle in the depths of the study owning up to the reality that vegetables were protective and high levels of fruit intake associated with increased cancer risk in this instance.
As for 5 to 8 servings of fruit and veg can I ask how many people eat this much, or is it just an extrapolation by an algorithm ? In the UK less than 30% of the population get to 5-a-day and it looks to be lower in the USA (although the scheme parameters vary by country).
Where are these 5-8 portions a day people, and are they confounded by being non-smoking wealthy teetotallers with health as their #1 priority ? Are they a statistically significant sample on which to base any policy ?
Because the UK and the US are such a good example of healthy eating!
I opened this thread because I'm looking for example of low carb diets for those hungry PMS days, but I'm suspicious when I see so few veggies in a diary (not a lot of fruit I can understand though).
I'm probably lower carb by most standards, and I eat a LOT of plant foods. Eat food, mostly plants, not too much.
Lunch today was a gigantic kale, almond, feta and chickpea salad with some sardines on top.
Dinner is a bit of chicken, and some edamame. I LOVE edamame.
Fruit? Sure, I eat some fruit. Had a couple of cuties yesterday, some berries the day before that.
Many folks who are lower or low carb (by S.A.D aka "western pattern" standards, and even by MFP standards.
I would imagine folks at BOTH ends of the carb spectrum eat and don't eat plant foods. Several of our revered regulars of the IIFYM crowd, with open diaries, eat virtually no plant foods other than some red peppers with their steak.
For *me* it's the the foods made from heavily refined carbs that cause the cravings and caused the PMS woes for me.
Slightly necro....2 -
I needed to change my diet again because of food intolerance to include chicken and stuff. I still eat 80% plant foods. But, my diet is probably low carb and definitely high fat (to keep my calories up).0
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