Eating Disorders recovering as Vegans...

Beautiful_Warrior94

I'm curious why people who had eating disorders seem to commonly recover as Vegans? How is that recovering? I mean you're still restricting as a Vegan by cutting out meat, dairy, honey, eggs. Is going Vegan like a cure from Eating Disorders?

Like the majority of famous people on YouTube who almost died from an eating disorder are now Vegan. Demi Lovato is now Vegan.

FrothyGibblets

I'd hazard a guess that by going vegan it still puts incredible restrictions on your diet, so a person recovering from an ED will not feel overwhelmed and still feel somewhat in control.

I'd certainly say it's something psychological within the ED mindset (assuming your observations are true, I don't tend to pay attention to celebrity culture, nor do I know any recovering ED patients) as opposed to recovering EDs coincidentally all going Vegan from a moral or ethical standpoint.

IILikeToMoveItMoveIt

My husband is anorexic and his claim to be vegan when we met just seemed like a more acceptable lable/excuse for his being underweight. Like he's willing to say he's vegan instead of anorexic as people don't voice concern over veganism as much as anorexia that way... He needs to be in control and food restriction gives him that... (among other things) Eating Disorders are complex issues...

stephyc2016

As FrotherGibblets has stated - it's kind of a baby step into eating again.

It probably does have to do with the recovery process and going vegan after having an ED won't put the stress of animal protein/fat on your body. Let's say Allison was anorexic for six months and is now recovering. She hasn't had food in a long while which means she hasn't had animal protein or dairy in that time she wasn't eating. Her body had adjusted to the anorexic lifestyle if you were to put a piece of steak in front of her and made her eat it her body wouldn't be able to process it properly causing her to be sick. Same would go if you put a glass of milk in front of her. Fruits and veggies would still be a bit to digest but it wouldn't be as hard on her body as it would be with animal products. As she gets healthier she can make a choice to continue veganism or to start eating animal products.

Another part of them going vegan is probably due to their doctor's choice. Veganism isn't for everyone. It's a huge lifestyle choice and you need to do a lot of research about going vegan before actually doing it. I've been vegan for 3 years, it was a personal choice and I did not consult a doctor before doing it; however, I personally feel better and have done a lot of research over the years to make sure my decision was the right one.

Everything I have stated above is personal opinion and you do not have to listen to what I've said. There could be many factors to going vegan after having an eating disorder.

Beautiful_Warrior94

Okay all answers make sense. I guess I can understand animal products can be hard on the body with an ED patient.

scribblemoma

As a prior anorexic of 5 years -in recovery for 6 years now- I can tell you that the re-introduction of certain foods can cause physical and emotional discomfort on a multitude of levels (dairy and fats were horrendous for me) ^_^ ANY person who has put their body through severe restriction is going to see almost a pregnancy like reaction as they begin eating again...it's a delicate and dangerous process to re-feed someone with an eating disorder. Around 90% of the people I've talked to who began their recovery period immediately relapsed during the re-feeding phase. Logically they know (or most do) that the sudden bloat and metamorphism of their bodies will gradually disappear but emotionally they aren't able to endure. So I suppose by introducing a low calorie diet, such as veganism, a bit of their eating disorder gets to stay with them (kind of like the husband mentioned above).

However I think it's just as important for a recovering anorexic to evaluate WHY they chose veganism. Is it really for the lifestyle (religious reasons, moral standing, etc.) or is it more of a way to cling to old habits? If it is to stay safe in old habits then reaching out to a support systems, and further weaning into a more omnivore diet, should be considered...lest old habits return.

I went straight back into an omnivore diet myself because I couldn't trust myself as a vegan. But I can tell you that I was in serious physical discomfort (as well as emotional) for MONTHS...I'm glad I stuck to it but if I hadn't been lucky enough to have my support system there's no way I could've done it.

tara_means_star

scribblemoma wrote: »

As a prior anorexic of 5 years -in recovery for 6 years now- I can tell you that the re-introduction of certain foods can cause physical and emotional discomfort on a multitude of levels (dairy and fats were horrendous for me) ^_^ ANY person who has put their body through severe restriction is going to see almost a pregnancy like reaction as they begin eating again...it's a delicate and dangerous process to re-feed someone with an eating disorder. Around 90% of the people I've talked to who began their recovery period immediately relapsed during the re-feeding phase. Logically they know (or most do) that the sudden bloat and metamorphism of their bodies will gradually disappear but emotionally they aren't able to endure. So I suppose by introducing a low calorie diet, such as veganism, a bit of their eating disorder gets to stay with them (kind of like the husband mentioned above).

However I think it's just as important for a recovering anorexic to evaluate WHY they chose veganism. Is it really for the lifestyle (religious reasons, moral standing, etc.) or is it more of a way to cling to old habits? If it is to stay safe in old habits then reaching out to a support systems, and further weaning into a more omnivore diet, should be considered...lest old habits return.

I went straight back into an omnivore diet myself because I couldn't trust myself as a vegan. But I can tell you that I was in serious physical discomfort (as well as emotional) for MONTHS...I'm glad I stuck to it but if I hadn't been lucky enough to have my support system there's no way I could've done it.

Perfectly stated. I used to work with women with eating disorders in a residential setting and this was exactly what I saw the women there experience.

staringatthesun

in my experience as a recovered anorexic who has been through treatment MANY times, i've found that most of the times anorexics or recovering anorexics claim to be vegan, it's a symptom of their illness. plain and simple.

i've been vegetarian (not vegan), since middle school, when i learned more about animal cruelty and later about the environmental impact of the meat industry. but while in treatment i specifically ate MORE challenging foods than the meat options, to prove that it wasn't my eating disorder talking, lol. and i've specifically avoided veganism because i too (as stated above), find it to be too much of a slippery slope. for me, at least personally, being vegan would absolutely be a way of continuing my ED behaviors, just in a more socially acceptable way. from what i've experienced and seen and heard and read, what i think is frequently the best approach for an anorexic or recovering anorexic who says they are vegan or vegetarian is to continue to explore the matter with them, tease out their reasoning, and if it is a behavior, to slowly begin to challenge it, to separate their food choices from their person, just as you do with the other behaviors. i've also noticed that a lot of treatment providers allow vegetarianism but not veganism in their programs, while working with the vegetarians to discover their true motivations.

PowerKickChic

Have to edit.

PowerKickChic

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

EvgeniZyntx

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

Actually 6% are obese. 29% are either overweight or obese. And they attend less college than semi-vegetarians or lactovegetarians. But this does not mean that becoming vegan will make me smaller or make me lose a degree.

Causality, it is a funny thing.

By the way, Lactovegeterians as 1% less obese and less overweight in that study.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html

PowerKickChic

Oops hah! I just ready what Google popped up and didn't go into detail. Thanks!

staringatthesun

this thread is about people recovering from eating disorders who become vegan and why that is, not about whether you can lose weight or be healthy not eating meat. you guys are talking about something completely different. actually, i'm not even sure what you are talking about or what it would be relevant to... but it's definitely not relevant or helpful in this thread (which is about a serious and deadly mental illness).

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

Actually 6% are obese. 29% are either overweight or obese. And they attend less college than semi-vegetarians or lactovegetarians. But this does not mean that becoming vegan will make me smaller or make me lose a degree.

Causality, it is a funny thing.

By the way, Lactovegeterians as 1% less obese and less overweight in that study.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html

Beautiful_Warrior94

staringatthesun wrote: »

this thread is about people recovering from eating disorders who become vegan and why that is, not about whether you can lose weight or be healthy not eating meat. you guys are talking about something completely different. actually, i'm not even sure what you are talking about or what it would be relevant to... but it's definitely not relevant or helpful in this thread (which is about a serious and deadly mental illness).

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

Actually 6% are obese. 29% are either overweight or obese. And they attend less college than semi-vegetarians or lactovegetarians. But this does not mean that becoming vegan will make me smaller or make me lose a degree.

Causality, it is a funny thing.

By the way, Lactovegeterians as 1% less obese and less overweight in that study.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html

Thank you for understanding the point of this thread. Like I don't want to lose a ton of weight. Just maintain around 145 since I'm only 5foot 7inches and I'm happy at that weight.

And I figure out the other day I'm also lactose intolerant. Along with having a meat intolerance. It kind of sucks though. I mean, when I was seven because I knew anything about eating disorders, before bulimia effected my life I loved cheese. Literally cheese was all I even ate. And growing up my taste buds changed drastically. I don't know if it's from the illness or just your typical growing up taste bud changes. Hey I'm only 21 I'm still new at this.

Beautiful_Warrior94

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

I was a vegetarian for five years and I have tried being a Pescatarian before but soon found out quickly fish and seafood make me sick terribly.

Any places you know of that sell cheapish supplements?

Beautiful_Warrior94

scribblemoma wrote: »

As a prior anorexic of 5 years -in recovery for 6 years now- I can tell you that the re-introduction of certain foods can cause physical and emotional discomfort on a multitude of levels (dairy and fats were horrendous for me) ^_^ ANY person who has put their body through severe restriction is going to see almost a pregnancy like reaction as they begin eating again...it's a delicate and dangerous process to re-feed someone with an eating disorder. Around 90% of the people I've talked to who began their recovery period immediately relapsed during the re-feeding phase. Logically they know (or most do) that the sudden bloat and metamorphism of their bodies will gradually disappear but emotionally they aren't able to endure. So I suppose by introducing a low calorie diet, such as veganism, a bit of their eating disorder gets to stay with them (kind of like the husband mentioned above).

However I think it's just as important for a recovering anorexic to evaluate WHY they chose veganism. Is it really for the lifestyle (religious reasons, moral standing, etc.) or is it more of a way to cling to old habits? If it is to stay safe in old habits then reaching out to a support systems, and further weaning into a more omnivore diet, should be considered...lest old habits return.

I went straight back into an omnivore diet myself because I couldn't trust myself as a vegan. But I can tell you that I was in serious physical discomfort (as well as emotional) for MONTHS...I'm glad I stuck to it but if I hadn't been lucky enough to have my support system there's no way I could've done it.

I know I have been a Vegetarian for a long time. But for a while I between I did have to reintroduce some meats into my diet for a brief time. Only to prove to myself I am going Vegetarian for the right way and that I am not just trying to deprive myself and let my eating disorder win over.

Now that I am free from Ana and Mia I finally know what truly my body can't tolerate; meat, diary, eggs, milk. Ugh it sucks especially since when I was seven(mentioned in a previous post here) I freaking loved cheese!

zoeysasha37

Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

I was a vegetarian for five years and I have tried being a Pescatarian before but soon found out quickly fish and seafood make me sick terribly.

Any places you know of that sell cheapish supplements?

Check your local gnc or health food store for sales. Compare prices online . sometimes places like CVS have buy one get one free. ( this would only help if your in the USA )

Beautiful_Warrior94

thorsmom01 wrote: »

Thin_Beauty94 wrote: »

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

I was a vegetarian for five years and I have tried being a Pescatarian before but soon found out quickly fish and seafood make me sick terribly.

Any places you know of that sell cheapish supplements?

Check your local gnc or health food store for sales. Compare prices online . sometimes places like CVS have buy one get one free. ( this would only help if your in the USA )

I'll check CVS....lets hope I don't go crazy and buy everything in stock

idipyoudipwedip

To the people saying that veganism is such an extreme diet or that you need to supplement every meal.. Simply lies. What is so hard about replacing the meat and eggs in your diet to beans, lentils, tofu, nuts and seeds (these contain no cholesterol and low amounts of saturated fat, unlike animal flesh, as well as containing fibre, which animal carcasses lack), and replacing the dairy milk in your diet to plant milks such as soy milk, coconut milk, almond milk, rice milk, etc? These products also contain tons of added vitamins and minerals. Don't forget that meat and dairy are also supplemented - animals are fed enriched meals and dairy is fortified with calcium. It's not just vegans who need to supplement, everyone does. Luckily, the food industry has done most of it for us. The only supplement vegans may need take is B12, if they don't eat a lot of fortified plant milks or mock meats, because our plants no longer contain enough bacteria that contains B12 because of sanitation practises. However, in meat, there is enough bacteria to get enough B12. B12 pills are quite inexpensive and accessible. It's not a crazy extreme diet. It's just about finding replacements with similar nutrient profiles.

As for people with eating disorders turning to veganism, I have a feeling it has something to do with trying to find a diet that they can feel good about and stick with without feeling guilty. It may appear to have "cleaner" food, as people with eating disorders often feel dirty eating high-calorie, high fat foods. A vegan diet may make them feel more "clean" or less bloated. Maybe these people want to latch onto a diet that they can finally feel good about, and the moral and environmental benefits of a vegan diet may make them finally feel justified in eating food for the first time in a long time.

idipyoudipwedip

To be fair, it may seem like an extreme diet if you are switching from eating prepackaged pseudo foods containing dairy and meat to eating homemade whole food vegan meals. However, I would argue that eating meat and dairy every day is extreme. Nobody needs to eat that much. A healthy diet is about 85% vegan by default. Vegetables, fruit, grains, beans, nuts, and seeds should make up most or all of your diet.

EvgeniZyntx

staringatthesun wrote: »

this thread is about people recovering from eating disorders who become vegan and why that is, not about whether you can lose weight or be healthy not eating meat. you guys are talking about something completely different. actually, i'm not even sure what you are talking about or what it would be relevant to... but it's definitely not relevant or helpful in this thread (which is about a serious and deadly mental illness).

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

PowerKickChic wrote: »

I became pescetarian just over 2 months ago. I just couldn't bare to eat most animals and the thought of eating their muscles and fat repulses me now. I only eat seafood that is unintelligent or wild caught. (Only have brain stems and/or that are able to live in the wild without abuse)

I haven't lost weight haha! Mostly because I'm eating more carbs and sugar than I should. A few weeks back I started getting depressed and so tired I could hardly get out of bed. I was becoming malnourished even when I had enough calories. You cant survive as a vegan, vegetarian or Pescatarian if you don't supplement the nutrition you have lost by not eating meat. Its not just about calories in/calorie out like with the people who do.

If you become vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian you NEED supplements. No if, ands of buts. You will need to take 130mg iron, 2400mg fish oil, 5000 vitamin D, a multi vitamin, 5000 mcg B-12 every day and a magnesium, zinc and calcium pill every meal. You will also need to eat fruit every morning to let some of the vitamins absorb. You will need to eat lots and lots of fat. You can go over your daily calories as long as its from fat and healthy foods but not with sugar or carbs. Actually, you shouldn't have a low calorie goal if you don't eat meat anyways.

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

According to google, only 6% of vegetarians are overweight. I really need to get my butt in gear and not be one of them haha! A fat Pescatarian...Sigh!!! I need to lose another 60lbs. I hope I can get there!

Actually 6% are obese. 29% are either overweight or obese. And they attend less college than semi-vegetarians or lactovegetarians. But this does not mean that becoming vegan will make me smaller or make me lose a degree.

Causality, it is a funny thing.

By the way, Lactovegeterians as 1% less obese and less overweight in that study.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/6/1267/T1.expansion.html

PowerKickChic post was about her experience with food repulsion, veganism and anorexia - certainly relevant to the thread. In it, she also mentioned an issue related to perception of veganism and weight populations distribution. It was incorrect and I addressed that.

It's true that my post wasn't directly related to EDs but the perception that veganism is a weight loss solution is also part of the reason why some people take it up as an extremely restrictive diet. If you think that people that are very overweight can't have issues that lead to restrictive EDs - you are quite wrong. Addressing the fact that joining a vegan diet won't solve being overweight by itself is also food for thought for those that might consider such strict eating as a possible solution - and avoid a path that may lead some to issues.

EDs are, as you post, "serious and deadly illnesses" - addressing how people enter them - with the perception that a highly restrictive diet (which may or may not lead to an ED) is a way to lose weight is relevant.

janejellyroll

idipyoudipwedip wrote: »

To be fair, it may seem like an extreme diet if you are switching from eating prepackaged pseudo foods containing dairy and meat to eating homemade whole food vegan meals. However, I would argue that eating meat and dairy every day is extreme. Nobody needs to eat that much. A healthy diet is about 85% vegan by default. Vegetables, fruit, grains, beans, nuts, and seeds should make up most or all of your diet.

I don't think using language like "pseudo foods" is really helpful. There are vegan pre-packaged options, there are non-pre-packaged animal foods. You're setting up some kind of false contrast between the two diets. There are many ways to eat animal products, there are many ways to be vegan.

PowerKickChic

idipyoudipwedip wrote: »

To the people saying that veganism is such an extreme diet or that you need to supplement every meal.. Simply lies. What is so hard about replacing the meat and eggs in your diet to beans, lentils, tofu, nuts and seeds (these contain no cholesterol and low amounts of saturated fat, unlike animal flesh, as well as containing fibre, which animal carcasses lack), and replacing the dairy milk in your diet to plant milks such as soy milk, coconut milk, almond milk, rice milk, etc? These products also contain tons of added vitamins and minerals. Don't forget that meat and dairy are also supplemented - animals are fed enriched meals and dairy is fortified with calcium. It's not just vegans who need to supplement, everyone does. Luckily, the food industry has done most of it for us. The only supplement vegans may need take is B12, if they don't eat a lot of fortified plant milks or mock meats, because our plants no longer contain enough bacteria that contains B12 because of sanitation practises. However, in meat, there is enough bacteria to get enough B12. B12 pills are quite inexpensive and accessible. It's not a crazy extreme diet. It's just about finding replacements with similar nutrient profiles.

As for people with eating disorders turning to veganism, I have a feeling it has something to do with trying to find a diet that they can feel good about and stick with without feeling guilty. It may appear to have "cleaner" food, as people with eating disorders often feel dirty eating high-calorie, high fat foods. A vegan diet may make them feel more "clean" or less bloated. Maybe these people want to latch onto a diet that they can finally feel good about, and the moral and environmental benefits of a vegan diet may make them finally feel justified in eating food for the first time in a long time.

Okay, yes, getting all your vitamins from food is possible but you will have to have a perfect diet every single day and for almost everyone, that is not reasonable. Some people don't like all the foods that your body needs to function correctly when your a vegan. I stand behind my statement that people NEED supplements so that if they will have proper nutrition, I mean, we are not perfect like you. Why the heck are you arguing against supplements that help people who are making a transition into a meatless lifestyle? I am sharing my experience, I started having deficiencies even though I was planning my day with the nutrition your claim you need. I even saw a nutritionist, I value her opinion over some random hater on the internet.

People, please listen, it is very important that you take supplements as a safeguard because your nutrition is almost never going to be perfect. Even if you are careful to eat the right food, sometimes they don't get absorbed the way they should. People like her get on their soapbox and don't understand that most of us are not willing to go to extremes like they do. Making the transition to a meatless diet is not easy and it needs to be taken in steps. You cant just wake up one day and know exactly what you like, exactly what your body needs and eat that way every single day. She is unreasonable and expects everyone to think and act like herself. Please, take care of yourself.

PowerKickChic

Thanks EvgeniZyntx Its much appreciated

For the other people who are hating, this is what I wrote that is relevant to the thread:

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

-People are so limited by what they can eat sometimes, its very easy to not get enough calories. It could start a road to anorexia or unhealthily habits. I have found myself not wanting to eat because it was so difficult to calculate the nutrition I needed. I am just beginning this journey and I'm not going to be perfect and most people are not going to be either. We are learning. (Thus supplements are important)

I really don't care what people think of me because my intentions were to help others and share my experience. I know that I am being nice and you chose to be snarky. I have found that people who are mean to others are one of two things: One-Trying to bring the other person down to their level or Two- Trying to inflate themselves up to the persons level or act like they are better than everyone else. Either way, I am flattered that you view me so highly.
I'm done with this thread, I don't need this negativity. I'm off to the gym!

As far as supplements, I research the brands then buy them off amazon

janejellyroll

PowerKickChic wrote: »

Thanks EvgeniZyntx Its much appreciated

For the other people who are hating, this is what I wrote that is relevant to the thread:

I can understand how someone could become anorexic or even look like they are when they are actually eating a lot of food. For example, Its super hard to find anything to eat in a typical restaurant, even for me who eats seafood. I am guessing most vegans and vegetarians have to eat salad, a potato and or a side of veggies. That is more than likely not enough calories to count as a full meal.

I really don't care what people think of me because my intentions were to help others and share my experience. I know that I am being nice and you chose to be snarky. I have found that people who are mean to others are one of two things: One-Trying to bring the other person down to their level or Two- Trying to inflate themselves up to the persons level or act like they are better than everyone else. Either way, I am flattered that you view me so highly.
I'm done with this thread, I don't need this negativity. I'm off to the gym!

As far as supplements, I research the brands then buy them off amazon

I'm vegan. Depending on where I'm eating, I usually have options beyond salad, potato, or a vegetable side. Experiences can vary widely by location, but more and more places offer vegan options on the menu or are willing to make changes to dishes in order to make them vegan. Some of my favorite meals when eating out are Indian/Thai food, vegetable sushi, portobello mushroom sandwiches, pizza (several places in my area even offer vegan cheese and faux meat toppings), burrito bowls, hummus sandwiches, and pasta with marinara.

idipyoudipwedip

Sure, take supplements if you feel like you aren't getting enough nutrition. But that goes for all people, not just vegans. I don't appreciate people saying as a vegan you NEED to supplement. All styles of eating can have nutritional deficiencies. For example, osteoporosis, lack of calcium in the bones, occurs in most in places with the most dairy consumption. How is that possible if drinking milk gives you all this calcium? Simply having meat and dairy in your diet is not enough to say that you're nutritionally complete, just as it's not fair to say that all vegans need supplements.

I also absolutely agree that some vegan foods are non nutritional pseudo foods, as I call them. You can be unhealthy on a vegan diet. But my point was that it's not an extreme change to make if you're already eating a healthy diet. If your diet contains already lots of vegetables, grains, beans, nuts, and limited amounts of meat and eggs and dairy, then cutting out the last three is not extremely restrictive like a lot of people are saying it is. It's only extreme if you're not already eating the other things and you have to then shift your whole eating pattern.

janejellyroll

idipyoudipwedip wrote: »

Sure, take supplements if you feel like you aren't getting enough nutrition. But that goes for all people, not just vegans. I don't appreciate people saying as a vegan you NEED to supplement. All styles of eating can have nutritional deficiencies. For example, osteoporosis, lack of calcium in the bones, occurs in most in places with the most dairy consumption. How is that possible if drinking milk gives you all this calcium? Simply having meat and dairy in your diet is not enough to say that you're nutritionally complete, just as it's not fair to say that all vegans need supplements.

I also absolutely agree that some vegan foods are non nutritional pseudo foods, as I call them. You can be unhealthy on a vegan diet. But my point was that it's not an extreme change to make if you're already eating a healthy diet. If your diet contains already lots of vegetables, grains, beans, nuts, and limited amounts of meat and eggs and dairy, then cutting out the last three is not extremely restrictive like a lot of people are saying it is. It's only extreme if you're not already eating the other things and you have to then shift your whole eating pattern.

Vegans do need to supplement B12 (or eat fortified foods). I agree that non-vegans can also have deficiencies, but let's not go too far in the other direction. We need to pay attention to how we are getting B12 (as do some other people, including those over age 50).

And, for most people, eliminating foods from the diet entirely is restrictive. It's a restriction that I'm in favor of and one that I think is worth it. But I don't think we make it easier for people to contemplate veganism when we act like going vegan is no big deal. For some people it is challenging to give up certain foods -- it's hard to give up certain tastes or textures or to navigate certain social situations. For some, it's hard to meet certain nutritional needs until they add new foods to their diet. When we act like going vegan is no big deal, I would argue we make it harder for people to consider veganism. They may think "Well, it's easy for some people to go vegan because they don't miss anything. But I'm not one of those people so I never could."

Sometimes it's hard to consider veganism and that's okay. Veganism is for everyone, not just those who find it easy to give up animal exploitation.

idipyoudipwedip

Again, everybody needs to supplement or eat fortified foods. It's the nature of our current agricultural system. It is not some special thing for vegans. Anyone who eats cereal has iron-enriched cereal and calcium-enriched milk, so they are already supplementing. Switching to soy milk enriched with calcium and B12 is not an extreme choice that is difficult to make for most people. Unless you already regularly eat prepackaged foods with dairy in them, simply switching from dairy to plant milk in your cooking is quite easy. I'm tired of this idea of veganism as some nutritionally deficient diet that you have to be super careful on to make sure you get enough nutrients. Vegetarians and vegans have lower rates of most morbidities and longer longevity, according to meta-studies adjusting for other factors like socioeconomic status. I'm not saying a veg diet is inherently healthier than a omnivorous one, just that most vegetarians and vegans have no more of a problem being nutritionally sound, and there's evidence that they actually get better nutrition than a LOT of meat-eating people. Nobody goes around to people who eat meat, though, saying "make sure you take a fibre supplement! Meat-eating diets are so extreme, you might not get enough fibre to be in optimal health!" It wouldn't be fair because a meat-eating diet CAN get enough fibre in it, quite easily, just like a vegan diet can get enough B12 in it, quite easily.

idipyoudipwedip

I agree that veganism can be hard to get into for some people, who rely on animal flesh as a staple of their diet. However, if you're already eating a healthy diet, it's really just about little changes here and there and won't affect 85% of your diet. Of course, most people aren't eating healthy diets, so I think you're right in general to not say veganism is super easy for everyone. However I don't like this pervasive idea that veganism is extremely restrictive and you have to be super diligent about nutrients, because it's not necessarily true and may actually deter people from becoming vegan because they don't think they could ever do it. Vegan population is growing, which means more and more mock meats, fake cheeses and veg restaurants are popping up, and it's becoming easier and easier to be vegan, especially in cities. This idea that veganism is extreme is just unfair.

BunnyBomb

Wow i didn't know that people with eating disorders commonly recover as Vegan. I like questions like these, it makes people think about things they potentially wouldn't otherwise.

To the OP - is this commonality something you've noticed in real life or did a recent article spur your thinking? If it's the latter is there a particular article that stirred up the question?

I did a quick Google myself but all I found was (what looks like) a decade long debate about whether Veganism is s cover for eating disorders, which isn't what you were asking about really.

I did find one article though where a Vegan author rips the living hell out of some publication for even daring to make the connection! Haha. So it seems like an area of some... preciousness, with candid authors to boot

janejellyroll

idipyoudipwedip wrote: »

I agree that veganism can be hard to get into for some people, who rely on animal flesh as a staple of their diet. However, if you're already eating a healthy diet, it's really just about little changes here and there and won't affect 85% of your diet. Of course, most people aren't eating healthy diets, so I think you're right in general to not say veganism is super easy for everyone. However I don't like this pervasive idea that veganism is extremely restrictive and you have to be super diligent about nutrients, because it's not necessarily true and may actually deter people from becoming vegan because they don't think they could ever do it. Vegan population is growing, which means more and more mock meats, fake cheeses and veg restaurants are popping up, and it's becoming easier and easier to be vegan, especially in cities. This idea that veganism is extreme is just unfair.

Telling people that veganism is super-easy and that they won't have any problems with it and everyone has to supplement so it's no big deal doesn't help anyone become vegan.

If someone *thinks* veganism is restrictive or hard, it's better to find out why and help them find ways to address that instead of insisting that it isn't restrictive.

If I keep repeating that veganism is just "little changes" and someone knows, from looking that their own diet, that is isn't, they could easily conclude that veganism isn't for them. Why would I want them to think that?

Better to meet people where they are at and help them figure out how they can go vegan instead of repeating that veganism is just little changes that everyone can make without noticing.

If someone thinks veganism is extreme, how does it help to just dismiss that and get frustrated? Let it open up the conversation, figure out WHY they think it is extreme and progress from there.