MILK...
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htimpaired wrote: »I knew I would get that response but it makes no sense. Cows milk is made by cows FOR baby cows. Almond milk is not made by almonds for almonds. Its made for people. We are the only species to drink the milk of another species and it makes no sense.
So by your logic, we should hook up women and milk them.
LOL how do you come to that conclusion? Breastmilk is for babies, I have never heard of women being hooked up and milked.
And I never said almonds were for people, I said we make almond milk for humans.
And we milk cows and goats for humans.
Humans are creative.
If you think it's not fair to the cows and goats, I get it (although I disagree), but that has nothing to do with whether it's unhealthy or somehow weird. I mean, people also eat cows.0 -
There are many valid ethical arguments against the consumption of animal milks. "Ew!" is not one of them.0
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I love milk but I only like it whole and that's not worth the macros to me. I usually use unsweetened almond milk for things that need milk. I make my hot chocolate with it.
Also I'm "meh" about the whole "ewww animal milk" thing. We had a family cow growing up, I love cow's milk and I won't ever stop loving cow's milk.0 -
mommyrunning wrote: »I drink soy milk or almond milk. I stopped using cow's milk because I became concerned with the use of antibiotics and hormones in animals like cows after a couple of courses I took as part of my degree including nutrition and microbiology. I am not a scientist and I haven't done studies but I felt that it wasn't work the risk and switched. As someone else said it depends on your criteria as the macro-nutrients vary in each.
Antibiotics are given to cows because of mastitis, which also happens in humans all the time. It is common in nursing mothers.
However, the milk produced by cows with mastitis is discarded. The FDA even took samples and their conclusion that across thousands of farms, there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk.
I'm surprised that someone with a degree in microbiology would believe this
Source: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Milk/ucm082165.htm0 -
Dreysander wrote: »I love milk but I only like it whole and that's not worth the macros to me. I usually use unsweetened almond milk for things that need milk. I make my hot chocolate with it.
Also I'm "meh" about the whole "ewww animal milk" thing. We had a family cow growing up, I love cow's milk and I won't ever stop loving cow's milk.
Personally, the only issue I have with milk is that the animals are forcefully bred and then the young are ripped from their mothers and either become veal or another dairy cow. Which makes me feel guilty because I like cheese and yogurt. I don't eat meat, though.
Other than that, milk is pretty good for you but there are certainly good alternatives now for those who don't want to drink milk or can't.0 -
I am ok with animals receiving antibotics just like humans. And the use of pesticides on veggies. Anything that will prevent them from passing on disease to humans is a benefit in my book, especially based on recent Chipotle ecolli break out (organic veggies).
Ps - I prefer cows milk due to the protein0 -
realityfades wrote: »Dreysander wrote: »I love milk but I only like it whole and that's not worth the macros to me. I usually use unsweetened almond milk for things that need milk. I make my hot chocolate with it.
Also I'm "meh" about the whole "ewww animal milk" thing. We had a family cow growing up, I love cow's milk and I won't ever stop loving cow's milk.
Personally, the only issue I have with milk is that the animals are forcefully bred and then the young are ripped from their mothers and either become veal or another dairy cow. Which makes me feel guilty because I like cheese and yogurt. I don't eat meat, though.
Other than that, milk is pretty good for you but there are certainly good alternatives now for those who don't want to drink milk or can't.
Lots of domestic animals are "forcefully bred" and the majority of them are selectively bred so that they have little to no maternal instinct. Dairy cows (especially Holsteins - your typical black and white) and egg chickens have very low maternal drive. Many of them would step all over their babies or not allow calves to nurse if you left calves with them. I say this from a place of experience. We had two Jersey cows that were good mothers, but cousins of mine had a larger scale Holstein operation and taking the calves to hand rear was safer for the calves in general.
Beef cattle actually have a stronger maternal drive than dairy cattle.
Do you eat eggs, by the way? Do you eat store eggs? Have you see how battery chickens are treated?
I don't like large scale commercial dairy / egg operations, we buy our milk from a local family who has about 50 head of cattle and we raise our own chickens. You can be a responsible consumer of things like eggs and dairy. You can avoid supporting cruelty.0 -
Dreysander wrote: »realityfades wrote: »Dreysander wrote: »I love milk but I only like it whole and that's not worth the macros to me. I usually use unsweetened almond milk for things that need milk. I make my hot chocolate with it.
Also I'm "meh" about the whole "ewww animal milk" thing. We had a family cow growing up, I love cow's milk and I won't ever stop loving cow's milk.
Personally, the only issue I have with milk is that the animals are forcefully bred and then the young are ripped from their mothers and either become veal or another dairy cow. Which makes me feel guilty because I like cheese and yogurt. I don't eat meat, though.
Other than that, milk is pretty good for you but there are certainly good alternatives now for those who don't want to drink milk or can't.
Lots of domestic animals are "forcefully bred" and the majority of them are selectively bred so that they have little to no maternal instinct. Dairy cows (especially Holsteins - your typical black and white) and egg chickens have very low maternal drive. Many of them would step all over their babies or not allow calves to nurse if you left calves with them. I say this from a place of experience. We had two Jersey cows that were good mothers, but cousins of mine had a larger scale Holstein operation and taking the calves to hand rear was safer for the calves in general.
Beef cattle actually have a stronger maternal drive than dairy cattle.
Do you eat eggs, by the way? Do you eat store eggs? Have you see how battery chickens are treated?
I don't like large scale commercial dairy / egg operations, we buy our milk from a local family who has about 50 head of cattle and we raise our own chickens. You can be a responsible consumer of things like eggs and dairy. You can avoid supporting cruelty.
No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
And yes, I am talking about the big farms. Not responsible ones.0 -
No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.0 -
"Free range" means that chickens have access to outside. It doesn't specify how much space and for how long. Many "free range" egg operations look like this
http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/36/82/63549418846475/0/organic-cage-free-natural-truth-behind-egg-chicken-labels.w654.jpg
Granted it's better than a battery hen house but it's still too cramped. It's better to not buy store eggs at all if you can help it, get them from the farmers market or from a local farm if you can. I realize that's not always possible, even for somebody like me who has chickens - my hens' production is waaaaay down due to the short days and sometimes I have to buy store eggs - but yeah just sayin'.
Animal based industries are, at their heart, an industry.0 -
Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.
Ok? I wasn't debating that. I just said what my boyfriend buys. He gets the eggs from Whole Foods and they're the brown, free range, organic ones. I can't even eat eggs ffs. What he buys has nothing to do with my beliefs about large run farms.0 -
I am ok with animals receiving antibotics just like humans. And the use of pesticides on veggies. Anything that will prevent them from passing on disease to humans is a benefit in my book, especially based on recent Chipotle ecolli break out (organic veggies).
That's not going to stop an outbreak of e.coli. E.coli is found in human and animal feces. If your organic food was grown in cow manure and not properly washed you can get e.coli. If your antibiotic ridden beef was slaughtered in unsanitary conditions you can get e.coli.
I personally prefer not to have meat that's pumped with hormones and antibiotics.0 -
Well the fact that you bought up that the eggs he buys are "free range, organic, brown eggs" means you must think that is pertinent information. If you didn't, you wouldn't have included it.
Brown eggs are not better than white eggs btw, they're just a different color.0 -
Dreysander wrote: »Well the fact that you bought up that the eggs he buys are "free range, organic, brown eggs" means you must think that is pertinent information. If you didn't, you wouldn't have included it.
Brown eggs are not better than white eggs btw, they're just a different color.
I only brought it up because we were talking about the conditions of large run farms.0 -
I am ok with animals receiving antibotics just like humans. And the use of pesticides on veggies. Anything that will prevent them from passing on disease to humans is a benefit in my book, especially based on recent Chipotle ecolli break out (organic veggies).
Ps - I prefer cows milk due to the protein
I wouldn't be concerned with sick animals receiving antibiotics (I would never advocate denying an animal medical care), but the routine dosing of animals with antibiotics (to help support weight gain) is a key factor in the increasing trend of antibiotic resistance. And that puts us all at risk.
If animals receive antibiotics "just like humans," (that is, when they're ill), that would be fine.0 -
Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.
A "free range" chicken doesn't even have to go outside, they just need to have theoretical access. That can be a small door for many chickens and it doesn't mean that a chicken necessarily see grass or the sun.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.
A "free range" chicken doesn't even have to go outside, they just need to have theoretical access. That can be a small door for many chickens and it doesn't mean that a chicken necessarily see grass or the sun.
I guess my point was that "free range" doesn't mean the chicken is running around a barn yard like non-commercial chickens would be.0 -
Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Last_mango_in_paradise wrote: »No, I don't eat eggs. I am allergic. My boyfriend does though and he gets free range, organic ones.
You do know that the definition of "range free" when it comes to store eggs is the fact that they're allowed a little patch of grass out in the sun to walk around on a few times a day. They are by no means running around a farm yard.
A "free range" chicken doesn't even have to go outside, they just need to have theoretical access. That can be a small door for many chickens and it doesn't mean that a chicken necessarily see grass or the sun.
I guess my point was that "free range" doesn't mean the chicken is running around a barn yard like non-commercial chickens would be.
I totally agree -- I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't mean they're necessarily on grass or even outside a few times a day.0 -
I drink cow's milk to carry on an ancient legacy. 10,000 years ago or so, cow's milk was so important to the survival of one of my ancestors that he/she EVOLVED lactase persistence to tolerate it as an adult. He/she passed the lactase persistence gene on to his/her offspring and then proceeded to out-compete almost all other humans in Europe. To deny this would be to reject my position as grand champion of the species survival game.
Yup...this. I'm mostly of European descent. I have the gene that allows me to digest lactose as an adult thanks to my ancestors who figured out that the milk of cows could be a food source. I have no problem drinking milk. It tastes good, has decent protein and it is pretty balanced nutritionally.0 -
realityfades wrote: »mommyrunning wrote: »I drink soy milk or almond milk. I stopped using cow's milk because I became concerned with the use of antibiotics and hormones in animals like cows after a couple of courses I took as part of my degree including nutrition and microbiology. I am not a scientist and I haven't done studies but I felt that it wasn't work the risk and switched. As someone else said it depends on your criteria as the macro-nutrients vary in each.
Antibiotics are given to cows because of mastitis, which also happens in humans all the time. It is common in nursing mothers.
However, the milk produced by cows with mastitis is discarded. The FDA even took samples and their conclusion that across thousands of farms, there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk.
I'm surprised that someone with a degree in microbiology would believe this
Source: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Milk/ucm082165.htm
First I support the use of antibiotics to treat illness in animals. They are given for a number of illnesses. If it ended there then I might feel differently.
My degree is not in microbiology but it's one of the courses I took as a part of my degree. There was information/research that talked about antibiotic resistance and how bacteria works along with lab work to see for ourselves how they work.
Your statement said "there was very little evidence that said antibiotics have tainted milk". Very little is not the same as none. You quoted the FDA which is generally considered reputable but they don't necessarily deem something to be risk free. They decide whether it's "safe enough" for human consumption (the benefit is greater than the risk)
Antibiotics have been used to promote growth and improve feed efficiency in livestock which in my opinion is unethical but that doesn't stop some from doing it.
In addition to my concern about antibiotic use in animals leading to antibiotic resistance there is also the issue of animals being fed hormones that could possible be passed through.
As I stated in my original comment I decided it just wasn't worth the risk for me. For some it doesn't seem like a big enough risk to not drink milk. I think that is a decision each person needs to make for themselves.
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