Interesting Studies: Probably low carb related in one way or another
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
You know that is a running joke? That no matter how long the study is, its never long enough to become "fat adapted" .
It does note in the narrative that longer term studies are needed.
From my anecdotal evidence, even with being strict non dirty keto for 3-4 months, i never got anywhere near my strength with carbs. And i am not talking a little. I am taking like 25% reductions in strength. Now, i still gotta run TKD with 30g glucose pre-workout to see if that helps, but CKD and pre workout food hasn't helped.
Of course it might be a little different for running. But power sports, the data i have seen suggest keto is suboptimal. But its great for cutting body fat.0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
You know that is a running joke? That no matter how long the study is, its never long enough to become "fat adapted" .
It does note in the narrative that longer term studies are needed.
From my anecdotal evidence, even with being strict non dirty keto for 3-4 months, i never got anywhere near my strength with carbs. And i am not talking a little. I am taking like 25% reductions in strength. Now, i still gotta run TKD with 30g glucose pre-workout to see if that helps, but CKD and pre workout food hasn't helped.
Of course it might be a little different for running. But power sports, the data i have seen suggest keto is suboptimal. But its great for cutting body fat.
There are definitely some variables with different sports and intensity, but generally the keto adaptation time period is around 12-16 weeks with the toughest part at around 4-6 weeks when glycogen is depleted and skeletal muscles are not yet adapted to optimize FFA oxidation at higher exertion rates. During that time, our CNS and skeletal muscles have to fight over ketones. Of course, many studies use people who have been on keto for 30 days (4-6 weeks...) and then act like it is a new finding when subjects are low energy. Dr's Volek and Phinney explain this in detail in some of their books.0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
You know that is a running joke? That no matter how long the study is, its never long enough to become "fat adapted" .
It does note in the narrative that longer term studies are needed.
From my anecdotal evidence, even with being strict non dirty keto for 3-4 months, i never got anywhere near my strength with carbs. And i am not talking a little. I am taking like 25% reductions in strength. Now, i still gotta run TKD with 30g glucose pre-workout to see if that helps, but CKD and pre workout food hasn't helped.
Of course it might be a little different for running. But power sports, the data i have seen suggest keto is suboptimal. But its great for cutting body fat.
There are definitely some variables with different sports and intensity, but generally the keto adaptation time period is around 12-16 weeks with the toughest part at around 4-6 weeks when glycogen is depleted and skeletal muscles are not yet adapted to optimize FFA oxidation at higher exertion rates. During that time, our CNS and skeletal muscles have to fight over ketones. Of course, many studies use people who have been on keto for 30 days (4-6 weeks...) and then act like it is a new finding when subjects are low energy. Dr's Volek and Phinney explain this in detail in some of their books.
Is there data (outside of me buying a book) on keto adaptation. IIRC, Dr. Hall had some data showing it much quicker.
ETA: i certainly recognize there are tons of variables. Fasting, carb factors, and exercise all can effect glycogen levels.0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
You know that is a running joke? That no matter how long the study is, its never long enough to become "fat adapted" .
It does note in the narrative that longer term studies are needed.
From my anecdotal evidence, even with being strict non dirty keto for 3-4 months, i never got anywhere near my strength with carbs. And i am not talking a little. I am taking like 25% reductions in strength. Now, i still gotta run TKD with 30g glucose pre-workout to see if that helps, but CKD and pre workout food hasn't helped.
Of course it might be a little different for running. But power sports, the data i have seen suggest keto is suboptimal. But its great for cutting body fat.
There are definitely some variables with different sports and intensity, but generally the keto adaptation time period is around 12-16 weeks with the toughest part at around 4-6 weeks when glycogen is depleted and skeletal muscles are not yet adapted to optimize FFA oxidation at higher exertion rates. During that time, our CNS and skeletal muscles have to fight over ketones. Of course, many studies use people who have been on keto for 30 days (4-6 weeks...) and then act like it is a new finding when subjects are low energy. Dr's Volek and Phinney explain this in detail in some of their books.
Is there data (outside of me buying a book) on keto adaptation. IIRC, Dr. Hall had some data showing it much quicker.
ETA: i certainly recognize there are tons of variables. Fasting, carb factors, and exercise all can effect glycogen levels.
Interestingly enough, the idea of keto-adaptation was originally mentioned in the 1880's by a US Army surgeon (Lt. Frederick Schwatka). But there wasn't much actual research published until the 1980's. So it is relatively recent in terms of scientific knowledge. My observation in terms of scientific research is that it takes 10-20 years from when a paper is published before experts in the field become widely aware (my personal observation is mostly in dealing with endocrinologists with new information on type 1 diabetes). Then, another 10-20 years before generalists in the field (i.e. GP's in my example) know the information. And if the generally interested public at large ever knows about it at all, it's another 10-20 years.
Anyway, the initial published research on keto adaptation:
Phinney SD, Horton ES, Sims EA, Hanson JS, Danforth E, Jr., LaGrange BM: Capacity for moderate exercise in obese subjects after adaptation to a hypocaloric, ketogenic diet. J Clin Invest 1980, 66(5): 1152-1161.
Phinney SD, Bistrian BR, Wolfe RR, Blackburn GL: The human metabolic response to chronic ketosis without caloric restriction: physical and biochemical adaptation. Metabolism 1983, 32(8): 757-768.
A study in rodents that might be worth reading also:
Simi B, Sempore B, Mayet MH, Favier RJ: Additive effects of training and high-fat diet on energy metabolism during exercise. J Appl Physiol 1991, 71(1):197-203.
ETA: I'll acknowledge also that there isn't much research on the keto adaptation. There is the stuff from 40 years ago. Since then, there is nothing that I am aware of that refutes it. There is also not much to confirm it either. Apparently it just isn't something people are interested in researching, though there are plenty of studies published fairly consistently in those decades that show sub-standard performance with athletes when only following a keto diet for a month or less. It's almost as though the biased researchers choose that time limit intentionally because we all know that isn't long enough.0 -
https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/05/bmjebm-2020-111412.full
From abstract:We have evaluated dietary recommendations for people diagnosed with familial hypercholesterolaemia (FH), a genetic condition in which increased low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) is associated with an increased risk for coronary heart disease (CHD). Recommendations for FH individuals have emphasised a low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet to reduce their LDL-C levels. The basis of this recommendation is the ‘diet-heart hypothesis’, which postulates that consumption of food rich in saturated fat increases serum cholesterol levels, which increases risk of CHD. We have challenged the rationale for FH dietary recommendations based on the absence of support for the diet-heart hypothesis, and the lack of evidence that a low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet reduces coronary events in FH individuals. As an alternative approach, we have summarised research which has shown that the subset of FH individuals that develop CHD exhibit risk factors associated with an insulin-resistant phenotype (elevated triglycerides, blood glucose, haemoglobin A1c (HbA1c), obesity, hyperinsulinaemia, high‐sensitivity C reactive protein, hypertension) or increased susceptibility to develop coagulopathy. The insulin-resistant phenotype, also referred to as the metabolic syndrome, manifests as carbohydrate intolerance, which is most effectively managed by a low carbohydrate diet (LCD). Therefore, we propose that FH individuals with signs of insulin resistance should be made aware of the benefits of an LCD.1
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