Vegruary anyone?
Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
It sounds like you want a name for a diet that is mostly plants. I don't think there is a name for that yet.
If you're opposed to redefinition, it's worth noting that veganism was initially coined as a way to describe the ethical position. People wanting it to refer to only diet is a relatively new development.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
Vegetarians0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
It sounds like you want a name for a diet that is mostly plants. I don't think there is a name for that yet.
If you're opposed to redefinition, it's worth noting that veganism was initially coined as a way to describe the ethical position. People wanting it to refer to only diet is a relatively new development.
I don't really care what people call their diets. I just find it amusing. I mostly just call my diet 'food'.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
Plant-based is a newer term, I think, but not as a replacement for "non-ethical veganism" (which has never been a thing given the history of the term "vegan," as you said) but to replace vegetarianism (or non-ovo-lacto-vegetarian). I'm old enough to recall when people would specify "ovo-lacto-vegetarian" to indicate that they would eat eggs and dairy, and without it you thought perhaps they did not.
These days, of course, if I bought a recipe book that called itself "Plant-Based Recipes" (and I probably have one or two), I'd expect it to include recipes without animal products, period.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
Plant-based is a newer term, I think, but not as a replacement for "non-ethical veganism" (which has never been a thing given the history of the term "vegan," as you said) but to replace vegetarianism (or non-ovo-lacto-vegetarian). I'm old enough to recall when people would specify "ovo-lacto-vegetarian" to indicate that they would eat eggs and dairy, and without it you thought perhaps they did not.
These days, of course, if I bought a recipe book that called itself "Plant-Based Recipes" (and I probably have one or two), I'd expect it to include recipes without animal products, period.
I think plant-based is meant to cover all the people who are into "The China Study" and "Knives over Forks" and all that stuff, people who are cutting animal products from the diet for health reasons, but aren't necessarily concerned with animals. But I agree that it is often used to cover vegetarianism as well.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Hi I am trying out vegan for the month of feb bc I couldn't commit in Jan. But I am ready! Anybody else?
Why are you "trying out" veganism? It is not a way of eating (that is vegetarianism) it is a way of life where you use no animal products, in any form. No meat, eggs, or dairy; no silk, wool, or leather; no honey or beeswax; nothing made from or made by animals.
It is just a way of eating for some people.
If someone just avoids animal products in their food, but is okay with animal exploitation and suffering for clothing, entertainment, health & beauty products, etc, then they are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Nope I'm not that serious about it.
Then you aren't vegan or "trying out" veganism. I think OP does want to see how a vegan lifestyle would work for her.
Nothing wrong with doing a plant-based diet for a month if you want and if you do it healthfully (which involves more than cutting out meat, eggs, and dairy).
I just want to see what the diet will do for me.
Being vegan would be much easier if you were behind the philosophy that exploiting animals is bad.
Easier how? To stick with the diet?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
Plant-based is a newer term, I think, but not as a replacement for "non-ethical veganism" (which has never been a thing given the history of the term "vegan," as you said) but to replace vegetarianism (or non-ovo-lacto-vegetarian). I'm old enough to recall when people would specify "ovo-lacto-vegetarian" to indicate that they would eat eggs and dairy, and without it you thought perhaps they did not.
These days, of course, if I bought a recipe book that called itself "Plant-Based Recipes" (and I probably have one or two), I'd expect it to include recipes without animal products, period.
I think plant-based is meant to cover all the people who are into "The China Study" and "Knives over Forks" and all that stuff, people who are cutting animal products from the diet for health reasons, but aren't necessarily concerned with animals. But I agree that it is often used to cover vegetarianism as well.
What do we call those that care about animal welfare enough to want them raised humanely but still eat them? Ethical omnivores?0 -
angellll12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Hi I am trying out vegan for the month of feb bc I couldn't commit in Jan. But I am ready! Anybody else?
Why are you "trying out" veganism? It is not a way of eating (that is vegetarianism) it is a way of life where you use no animal products, in any form. No meat, eggs, or dairy; no silk, wool, or leather; no honey or beeswax; nothing made from or made by animals.
It is just a way of eating for some people.
If someone just avoids animal products in their food, but is okay with animal exploitation and suffering for clothing, entertainment, health & beauty products, etc, then they are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Nope I'm not that serious about it.
Then you aren't vegan or "trying out" veganism. I think OP does want to see how a vegan lifestyle would work for her.
Nothing wrong with doing a plant-based diet for a month if you want and if you do it healthfully (which involves more than cutting out meat, eggs, and dairy).
I just want to see what the diet will do for me.
Being vegan would be much easier if you were behind the philosophy that exploiting animals is bad.
Easier how? To stick with the diet?
I think you are missing the point. Veganism is not a diet, per se. It is a lifestyle that is based on an ethical choice to avoid animal exploitation in all aspects of your life. What is your hypothesis as to what this "diet" will do for you? What made you want to try it in the first place? What sorts of food do you eat now? Do you eat meat? Do you eat other animal products?0 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »When it comes to an ethical decision about animal products, you're all in or all out, right? I mean, how do you decide to go back to eating and using animal products after deciding that that's unethical?
I'm really confused by that.
I was a vegan for a few years. The more I learned, the less food choices I had (I practically lived on TVP!) At the time, supermarkets were dipping apples in beef fat to make them shiny so even fruit was limited, and as for wine - curse you finings made from fish swim bladders!
My decision to go back to a more omnivorous diet was prompted by a holiday in Corfu. All the food labels were written in Greek and I couldn't understand them. In my head, that translated to "eat all the bacon" :-)
Lol! Bacon I so love bacon❤️ good thing I know a good replacement! Well I can see it getting all crazy with this thing and that thing having some animal thing in it. I'm not going to drive myself crazy over it.
If it preferred I say plant based diet then so be it. The bottom line is do what feels right to you, if it does not feel right to me I simply can be a vegetarian but probably not consume animal foods. As for the ethical reasons stance well it is my way to help the environment so should I again consume those products it would be as a side dish a treat on occasion. With the foods being raised farm fresh from a farmer I know. I could really only go back on that ethical decision for health reasons. I can't foretell the future but I know as I prepped myself by eating more vegetarian and vegan I felt better and my body started to function better.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »Hi I am trying out vegan for the month of feb bc I couldn't commit in Jan. But I am ready! Anybody else?
Why are you "trying out" veganism? It is not a way of eating (that is vegetarianism) it is a way of life where you use no animal products, in any form. No meat, eggs, or dairy; no silk, wool, or leather; no honey or beeswax; nothing made from or made by animals.
This has been covered earlier in this thread.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Hi I am trying out vegan for the month of feb bc I couldn't commit in Jan. But I am ready! Anybody else?
Why are you "trying out" veganism? It is not a way of eating (that is vegetarianism) it is a way of life where you use no animal products, in any form. No meat, eggs, or dairy; no silk, wool, or leather; no honey or beeswax; nothing made from or made by animals.
It is just a way of eating for some people.
If someone just avoids animal products in their food, but is okay with animal exploitation and suffering for clothing, entertainment, health & beauty products, etc, then they are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Nope I'm not that serious about it.
Then you aren't vegan or "trying out" veganism. I think OP does want to see how a vegan lifestyle would work for her.
Nothing wrong with doing a plant-based diet for a month if you want and if you do it healthfully (which involves more than cutting out meat, eggs, and dairy).
I just want to see what the diet will do for me.
Being vegan would be much easier if you were behind the philosophy that exploiting animals is bad.
Easier how? To stick with the diet?
I think you are missing the point. Veganism is not a diet, per se. It is a lifestyle that is based on an ethical choice to avoid animal exploitation in all aspects of your life. What is your hypothesis as to what this "diet" will do for you? What made you want to try it in the first place? What sorts of food do you eat now? Do you eat meat? Do you eat other animal products?
I'm not sure what it will do for me, that's why I am trying it out, I do get what the ethnical part of veganism is...I'm not interested in that part due to the fact that I don't care to go that hardcore into it ( yet or ever) to change my makeup and soaps, just my diet. So as someone said I'm going more the more vegetarian route I guess.
I don't eat meats already but I consume everything else, milk, eggs ect.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Sorry one of my meds is made using mouse proteins and I don't want to go off it so no veganism for me
Veganism is avoiding animal products to the extent that it is possible. You wouldn't have to give up your medicine to become vegan.
Thanks @janejellyroll medication is a trick matter as probably all of them were tested on animals at one time. I feel bad about the mice but a little mouse goes a long way. They grow it in a lab so they get lots and lots of doses from a few cells. It was a choose between possibly dying and more than likely losing my entire large intestine and parts of my small or a biologic. I can still lose it but so far so good. They charge an arm and a leg for it though. $5000 (just for the med but in the states you have to pay for the clinic time, iv, etc) which I get as an infusion every 6 weeks.0 -
Do what feels right to you. There is a such thing as a dietary vegan who consumes no animal foods- meat, dairy eggs, honey, gelatin or whatever else is made from an animal or insect. But people prefer to call that plant based diet because the philosophy behind veganism is nothing construed as animal cruelty/ animal rights/ activism. Clothing etc.angellll12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »angellll12 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Hi I am trying out vegan for the month of feb bc I couldn't commit in Jan. But I am ready! Anybody else?
Why are you "trying out" veganism? It is not a way of eating (that is vegetarianism) it is a way of life where you use no animal products, in any form. No meat, eggs, or dairy; no silk, wool, or leather; no honey or beeswax; nothing made from or made by animals.
It is just a way of eating for some people.
If someone just avoids animal products in their food, but is okay with animal exploitation and suffering for clothing, entertainment, health & beauty products, etc, then they are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Nope I'm not that serious about it.
OP. In veganism month are we suppose purchase new makeup soaps and clothes? Or is it just a food kind of thing?
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
But veganism isn't a diet. It's an ethical position. A diet with few to no animal products is a plant-based diet.
Plant-based is a newer term, I think, but not as a replacement for "non-ethical veganism" (which has never been a thing given the history of the term "vegan," as you said) but to replace vegetarianism (or non-ovo-lacto-vegetarian). I'm old enough to recall when people would specify "ovo-lacto-vegetarian" to indicate that they would eat eggs and dairy, and without it you thought perhaps they did not.
These days, of course, if I bought a recipe book that called itself "Plant-Based Recipes" (and I probably have one or two), I'd expect it to include recipes without animal products, period.
I think plant-based is meant to cover all the people who are into "The China Study" and "Knives over Forks" and all that stuff, people who are cutting animal products from the diet for health reasons, but aren't necessarily concerned with animals. But I agree that it is often used to cover vegetarianism as well.
What do we call those that care about animal welfare enough to want them raised humanely but still eat them? Ethical omnivores?
I don't know if there is a name for that.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Sorry one of my meds is made using mouse proteins and I don't want to go off it so no veganism for me
Veganism is avoiding animal products to the extent that it is possible. You wouldn't have to give up your medicine to become vegan.
Thanks @janejellyroll medication is a trick matter as probably all of them were tested on animals at one time. I feel bad about the mice but a little mouse goes a long way. They grow it in a lab so they get lots and lots of doses from a few cells. It was a choose between possibly dying and more than likely losing my entire large intestine and parts of my small or a biologic. I can still lose it but so far so good. They charge an arm and a leg for it though. $5000 (just for the med but in the states you have to pay for the clinic time, iv, etc) which I get as an infusion every 6 weeks.
I wouldn't expect you to choose death over taking a medicine that could save your life. I'm glad you found a treatment that works for you.
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Free range technically means they only have to be outside of there cages for one hour a day. I was buying those eggs too. Then I discovered what it really meant but you can call the company and ask what free range means to them. Since there are really no regulations or rules on the matter.vivmom2014 wrote: »However, I do think it's important to point out that "free range" is fairly meaningless in terms of how the animals are treated. It's more of a marketing ploy than anything that makes much of a real difference.
Well, this is depressing, but not surprising.
I wonder about the eggs I've seen in Whole Foods (for a very hefty price tag) that state on the packaging: "Our girls roam in the sunshine and grass" - (referring to the hens) - just another load of spin?
I've switched to buying organic free-range eggs. If we can't trust the packaging to mean anything, what's the point? Sigh.
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Thanks @janejellyroll my name is Jane too (well jayne)0
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angelexperiment wrote: »
Free range technically means they only have to be outside of there cages for one hour a day. I was buying those eggs too. Then I discovered what it really meant but you can call the company and ask what free range means to them. Since there are really no regulations or rules on the matter.vivmom2014 wrote: »However, I do think it's important to point out that "free range" is fairly meaningless in terms of how the animals are treated. It's more of a marketing ploy than anything that makes much of a real difference.
Well, this is depressing, but not surprising.
I wonder about the eggs I've seen in Whole Foods (for a very hefty price tag) that state on the packaging: "Our girls roam in the sunshine and grass" - (referring to the hens) - just another load of spin?
I've switched to buying organic free-range eggs. If we can't trust the packaging to mean anything, what's the point? Sigh.
That's a good idea! You can actually get a lot of information on a food product by calling the 1-800 number they provide.
Free range also means they must have access to the outside, but that can mean almost anything from freely frolicking in a field, to a fenced-in concrete slab, to nothing more than a hole big enough to stick their little head out.0 -
Hi, I am vegan after being vegetarian for a couple of years. The best thing to do is just try to do your best. There are those who can be quite militant and dogmatic but I feel going vegan is something to celebrate. I have found that preparation is key. I always take a small bottle of soy milk with me in case I pop into a cafe ( the one from Lidl is best and is lovely in coffee). Also I have found that well meaning so called friends will do their upmost to talk you into eating non vegan foods. Its like when you are on a diet and everyone tells you not to bother even though you know you look a right mess. And don't let anyone belittle your attempts even if you are only doing it for a few weeks. It is difficult to change habits of a lifetime, so good luck and one day at a time. It may well be that you find with time that you enjoy being a vegan.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »Thank you @janejellyroll @Cynsonya @kshama2001 for the replies. I need to read up more on what, exactly, "free range" means. It sounds *so* good, doesn't it? If it sounds too good to be true...
I started buying free range chickens after learning about debeaking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range
...Free-range poultry
In poultry-keeping, "free range" is widely confused with yarding, which means keeping poultry in fenced yards. Yarding, as well as floorless portable chicken pens ("chicken tractors") may have some of the benefits of free-range livestock but, in reality, the methods have little in common with the free-range method.
A behavioral definition of free range is perhaps the most useful: "chickens kept with a fence that restricts their movements very little." This has practical implications. For example, according to Jull, "The most effective measure of preventing cannibalism seems to be to give the birds good grass range."[5] De-beaking was invented to prevent cannibalism for birds not on free range, and the need for de-beaking can be seen as a litmus test for whether the chickens' environment is sufficiently "free-range-like."
The U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) requires that chickens raised for their meat have access to the outside in order to receive the free-range certification.[6] There is no requirement for access to pasture, and there may be access to only dirt or gravel . Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in the United States. Likewise, free-range egg producers have no common standard on what the term means.
The broadness of "free range" in the U.S. has caused some people to look for alternative terms. "Pastured poultry" is a term promoted by farmer/author Joel Salatin for broiler chickens raised on grass pasture for all of their lives except for the initial brooding period. The Pastured Poultry concept is promoted by the American Pastured Poultry Producers' Association (APPPA),[7] an organization of farmers raising their poultry using Salatin's principles.
Alternative terminology can also be used to make high-density confinement sound more palatable. For example: cage-free, free-running, free-roaming, naturally nested, etc. are used as an alternative to the technical term, high-density floor confinement. Whether high-density floor confinement is more humane than high-density cage confinement is arguable, but in any event, high-density confinement (of whatever type) is the antithesis of free range.
Thanks! But:
I admire vegans. I am making only small changes (stopped eating meat in November of 2014), but I guess it's something. Lame? Perhaps. But, again, it's something. We can all only start somewhere.
I don't think it is lame at all.
Thanks. My daughter reminds me that consuming dairy from the grocery store is still egregious, and I know this. I'm working on it!
I'm really happy to live near a dairy farm where I can see the cows outside on the pasture. I stopped buying organic milk from the supermarket and am buying this instead.
I wish more people would/could do this. I'm ready to jump on board. Thanks for the inspiration.
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also I have found that well meaning so called friends will do their upmost to talk you into eating non vegan foods. Its like when you are on a diet and everyone tells you not to bother even though you know you look a right mess. And don't let anyone belittle your attempts even if you are only doing it for a few weeks. It is difficult to change habits of a lifetime, so good luck and one day at a time. It may well be that you find with time that you enjoy being a vegan.
I wonder why this is. Human nature? Rudeness? Defensiveness? Fear?
My daughter watched Cowspiracy and felt disturbed by it enough to stop eating meat. She mentioned her diet change at a lunch gathering of her 20-something friends and they had a field day w/ derision. Some of it good natured, but then a few of them kept hammering away at it past the point of no return.
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vivmom2014 wrote: »also I have found that well meaning so called friends will do their upmost to talk you into eating non vegan foods. Its like when you are on a diet and everyone tells you not to bother even though you know you look a right mess. And don't let anyone belittle your attempts even if you are only doing it for a few weeks. It is difficult to change habits of a lifetime, so good luck and one day at a time. It may well be that you find with time that you enjoy being a vegan.
I wonder why this is. Human nature? Rudeness? Defensiveness? Fear?
My daughter watched Cowspiracy and felt disturbed by it enough to stop eating meat. She mentioned her diet change at a lunch gathering of her 20-something friends and they had a field day w/ derision. Some of it good natured, but then a few of them kept hammering away at it past the point of no return.
One concept that may explain some of this is "do-gooder derogation." The theory is that when we see someone attempt to do something good that we don't want to personally attempt, we will attack either their motives or the usefulness of their action as a way to deal with the emotions their attempt brings up for us.
If we convince ourselves that animal exploitation is inevitable or doesn't really cause harm and those who attempt to reduce their participation are silly, misguided, or wrong, then we don't have to avoid participating in it ourselves.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »also I have found that well meaning so called friends will do their upmost to talk you into eating non vegan foods. Its like when you are on a diet and everyone tells you not to bother even though you know you look a right mess. And don't let anyone belittle your attempts even if you are only doing it for a few weeks. It is difficult to change habits of a lifetime, so good luck and one day at a time. It may well be that you find with time that you enjoy being a vegan.
I wonder why this is. Human nature? Rudeness? Defensiveness? Fear?
My daughter watched Cowspiracy and felt disturbed by it enough to stop eating meat. She mentioned her diet change at a lunch gathering of her 20-something friends and they had a field day w/ derision. Some of it good natured, but then a few of them kept hammering away at it past the point of no return.
One concept that may explain some of this is "do-gooder derogation." The theory is that when we see someone attempt to do something good that we don't want to personally attempt, we will attack either their motives or the usefulness of their action as a way to deal with the emotions their attempt brings up for us.
If we convince ourselves that animal exploitation is inevitable or doesn't really cause harm and those who attempt to reduce their participation are silly, misguided, or wrong, then we don't have to avoid participating in it ourselves.
Yes. Excellent points.
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My car has leather seats. I'm out!0
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CalorieCountChocula wrote: »My car has leather seats. I'm out!
Many people going vegan decide to use up the animal products they have already purchased and simply replace them with non-animal versions when they are worn out. Having a car with leather seats isn't an impediment to going vegan.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »CalorieCountChocula wrote: »My car has leather seats. I'm out!
Many people going vegan decide to use up the animal products they have already purchased and simply replace them with non-animal versions when they are worn out. Having a car with leather seats isn't an impediment to going vegan.
I so appreciate the comments you have posted in terms of medication and this. You've already purchased it, that part's done. Not everyone may have the money to just go out and replace everything immediately. Also, from an environmental standpoint, perhaps it's not something you can give away and would have to throw out. (Like shoes, that are good enough to wear but not good enough to give away. Or half-used shampoos and soaps and cosmetics.) Adding to a landfill doesn't help.
It's odd that the people trying to come down on OP and tell her "what about x, y, and z" aren't veg*n! And people like to stereotype vegans as being judgmental.0 -
vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »Thank you @janejellyroll @Cynsonya @kshama2001 for the replies. I need to read up more on what, exactly, "free range" means. It sounds *so* good, doesn't it? If it sounds too good to be true...
I started buying free range chickens after learning about debeaking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range
...Free-range poultry
In poultry-keeping, "free range" is widely confused with yarding, which means keeping poultry in fenced yards. Yarding, as well as floorless portable chicken pens ("chicken tractors") may have some of the benefits of free-range livestock but, in reality, the methods have little in common with the free-range method.
A behavioral definition of free range is perhaps the most useful: "chickens kept with a fence that restricts their movements very little." This has practical implications. For example, according to Jull, "The most effective measure of preventing cannibalism seems to be to give the birds good grass range."[5] De-beaking was invented to prevent cannibalism for birds not on free range, and the need for de-beaking can be seen as a litmus test for whether the chickens' environment is sufficiently "free-range-like."
The U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) requires that chickens raised for their meat have access to the outside in order to receive the free-range certification.[6] There is no requirement for access to pasture, and there may be access to only dirt or gravel . Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in the United States. Likewise, free-range egg producers have no common standard on what the term means.
The broadness of "free range" in the U.S. has caused some people to look for alternative terms. "Pastured poultry" is a term promoted by farmer/author Joel Salatin for broiler chickens raised on grass pasture for all of their lives except for the initial brooding period. The Pastured Poultry concept is promoted by the American Pastured Poultry Producers' Association (APPPA),[7] an organization of farmers raising their poultry using Salatin's principles.
Alternative terminology can also be used to make high-density confinement sound more palatable. For example: cage-free, free-running, free-roaming, naturally nested, etc. are used as an alternative to the technical term, high-density floor confinement. Whether high-density floor confinement is more humane than high-density cage confinement is arguable, but in any event, high-density confinement (of whatever type) is the antithesis of free range.
Thanks! But:
I admire vegans. I am making only small changes (stopped eating meat in November of 2014), but I guess it's something. Lame? Perhaps. But, again, it's something. We can all only start somewhere.
That's not lame at all! If everyone makes small changes (not just talking about food choices, but in general), that can add up to make big differences.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
You're missing the point of why "vegan" was coined. Originally, vegetarian meant no animal products. Then, when the definition started to generally include dairy and eggs, for a while "strict vegetarian" was used to mean vegan. Then, the term vegan was finally coined to encompass all the ethical aspects and completely separate it from vegetarianism. It means something very specific and was coined to carry that meaning. To try to co-opt it is inappropriate. Plant-based just means that's the focus of your diet. What's the problem with that?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Vegans don't wear any clothing or use any products that are made from animals too. It's not just a food thing
What are people that follow a vegan diet but use other animal products called, if not vegan?
They're on a plant-based diet.
Yes, this is my understanding of the terminology as well, and it seems pretty well understood around me, even by non vegans (which is why I'm piping in).
I'm in a big city, so maybe the distinctions are less commonly understood elsewhere by people not invested in veganism?
Yeah, I think there is still a lot of confusion around what the various terms mean.
Because some group or other is always (re)defining some term. "Plant-based" sounds more like Michael Pollan's "Eat food ... mostly plants" way of eating than a vegan diet, which already has a name.
You're missing the point of why "vegan" was coined. Originally, vegetarian meant no animal products. Then, when the definition started to generally include dairy and eggs, for a while "strict vegetarian" was used to mean vegan. Then, the term vegan was finally coined to encompass all the ethical aspects and completely separate it from vegetarianism. It means something very specific and was coined to carry that meaning. To try to co-opt it is inappropriate. Plant-based just means that's the focus of your diet. What's the problem with that?
Not sure which you were asking about (vegan or plant-based) but I don't really have problems with any diet terms or their varying meanings.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »CalorieCountChocula wrote: »My car has leather seats. I'm out!
Many people going vegan decide to use up the animal products they have already purchased and simply replace them with non-animal versions when they are worn out. Having a car with leather seats isn't an impediment to going vegan.
I so appreciate the comments you have posted in terms of medication and this. You've already purchased it, that part's done. Not everyone may have the money to just go out and replace everything immediately. Also, from an environmental standpoint, perhaps it's not something you can give away and would have to throw out. (Like shoes, that are good enough to wear but not good enough to give away. Or half-used shampoos and soaps and cosmetics.) Adding to a landfill doesn't help.
It's odd that the people trying to come down on OP and tell her "what about x, y, and z" aren't veg*n! And people like to stereotype vegans as being judgmental.
Yep, for most people it simply isn't practical to buy all new health & beauty supplies, clothing, cars, etc all at once. I would say it's the norm for vegans to use these things up and just purchase vegan replacements. Throwing those things out doesn't really accomplish anything.0
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