what do you do to lower your sugar intake?
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stevencloser wrote: »3 week spells at various carb intake in a calorie deficit shows effect of carb intake on triglycerides (white triangles) :-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240601/
Overweight / obese subjects with metabolic syndrome.
Is there any evidence that sugar intake does not affect triglycerides ?
At 251 it's as low as it is at 47, so...
so let's not mention 344
Let's mention the whole thing. It went further down after it got increased, got a spike when further increased, dropped back down when even further increased (this is after 9 weeks of steadily increasing carb intake, mind you so don't even try to pretend those are aftereffects of the low carb diet) and then went back up when increased to really high levels. What does that tell you? Is it
a) high sugar increases your triglycerides
b) the data you presented is all over the place0 -
Lemurcat 12...I was not ignoring you, reading about Katz.
I admire David Katz and think he has a lot of common sense. He himself has stated too much sugar is poison. I think we can all agree to that. I understand sugar is not your problem but it is for a lot of obese people. They should not be shamed because they want to know how to lower sugar from their diet. For me it is not just sugar but all the processed foods (cakes, cookies, salad dressings,etc, etc) that extra sugar or high fructose corn syrup is added to so that we continue with a sweetened palate. Low fat foods in the 80's were loaded with sugar...they were calorie high and nutrient low. I believe there is a big sugar problem and I also believe weight loss, no matter where you get your calories from is calories in -calories out...I believe a healthy diet is less processed foods and less added sugar and less white flour and less heavily saturated fats. Fruits, vegetables, healthy carbs, eggs,meat, beans nut ...my weakness is sugar and cheese...both I believe are not good for me but for very different reasons and yes I would have cheesecake on a very special occasion but plan for it.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/corn-syrup-versus-sugar-legal-fight-court/story?id=159696180 -
I love this: David Katz, M.D., M.P.H. of Yale University, said. "This is a case where sugar is sugar, and our problem is excess. The dose makes the poison, of either variety."
In a review of a book Dr. David Katz states: The soft-drink industry is, however, vast and shrewd, profitable, pervasive and powerful. For public health to prevail over soda politics as usual, we have miles to go. This book is the richly drawn map of how to get there, from here.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v526/n7571/full/526034a.html
Corn Syrup Has 'Infiltrated' Food, Yale Doctor Tells Jury
By Bonnie Eslinger
Law360, Los Angeles (November 10, 2015, 11:15 PM ET) -- A Yale University medical professor testified for sugar refiners Tuesday in their $1.1 billion California false advertising suit against makers of high fructose corn syrup, saying the relatively new sweetener has "infiltrated foods that people don't expect to be sweet."
The sugar industry continued making its case in Los Angeles federal court that high fructose corn syrup manufacturers set out to mislead the public about the nutritional value of its product during a $135 million "sugar is sugar" marketing campaign by bringing to the stand medical doctor David L. Katz, director of Yale University's Prevention Research Center.
http://www.law360.com/articles/725459/corn-syrup-has-infiltrated-food-yale-doctor-tells-jury
Good night for now. Lemur cat, thank you for introducing me to Dr. Katz. I plan on buying one of his books. I admire him.
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Christine -
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I have to watch my sugar. I use splenda and things like stevia. Things like my coffee creamer and sweets are sugar free varieties. I drink only low sugar or no added sugar juices. I still eat sugar but just minimal amounts. there is sugar in my fruit and bread. stuff like that0
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Lemurcat 12...I was not ignoring you, reading about Katz.
I admire David Katz and think he has a lot of common sense. He himself has stated too much sugar is poison. I think we can all agree to that.
I've said lots of times that excess sugar should be avoided. Where I was disagreeing with you -- and why I posted the pieces I did -- is the claim that fructose is worse than other sugars, which would mean that people should be concerned about fruit.I understand sugar is not your problem but it is for a lot of obese people. They should not be shamed because they want to know how to lower sugar from their diet.
How did I "shame" them? I think I gave good advice of how to do that, in this very thread.
Again, what I found problematic about your argument was the idea that fructose is worse than other sugars and thus that fruit is a problem. I think most people have very different reactions to individual foods containing sugar (and no interest in straight sugar), and that fruit is usually helpful, not something that is bad for people or provokes bingeing.For me it is not just sugar but all the processed foods (cakes, cookies, salad dressings,etc, etc) that extra sugar or high fructose corn syrup is added to so that we continue with a sweetened palate.
I've never really eaten foods containing HFCS, but again the difference between that and sucrose is limited (55% vs. 50%), sweets that are homemade or from a local bakery/restaurant (and IMO much harder to resist than the lower quality mass market ones made with HFCS) are made with sucrose, not HFCS, and fruit probably has a higher percentage of sugar from fructose in many cases. I'd say the difference between all these foods and fruit is that they also contain fat (often not one of the so-called healthy fats, either).Low fat foods in the 80's were loaded with sugar...they were calorie high and nutrient low.
And yet the more reputable sources indicate that we didn't decrease the amount of fat we were eating, but even increased it some. Sure, we increased sugar more (I think that's because it got cheaper and the amount of soda/energy drinks increased a ton, but in selected populations -- it's one of those products, like alcohol, where a very high percentage of sales is to a minority of users).0 -
I love this: David Katz, M.D., M.P.H. of Yale University, said. "This is a case where sugar is sugar, and our problem is excess. The dose makes the poison, of either variety."
Right, I think this is what the moderation folks have been saying (it's certainly what I always say) -- the issue is excess. If you didn't understand that, we aren't communicating well.
Demonizing one ingredient or macro (whether fructose or sat fat or carbs or fat) and deciding that that one thing is the problem is, well, the problem. Obviously no one disagrees that a healthy diet is preferred (and Katz thinks it's pretty well-known what a healthy diet is, and his ideas are basically the same ones I have come to).0 -
I found a few studies, but I'm not diving into all that while we're discussing the fructose-sucrose thing or anything like certain researchers that might get the thread closed, because I hate writing up science posts and then having the thread missing!
But one key question, imho, is whether your lipids are already higher than you like. Metabolism of sugar can certainly affect that, but if someone has no biomarkers for those sorts of problems other than being overfat**, I'm not sure the advice is the same. OTOH, cutting down on added sugar or higher levels of carbs should never make anyone feel silly/guilty. It's a fine thing to do if you like anyway. Carbs are special like that.
But fruits offer so many amazing benefits, particularly to cardiovascular health btw, that I will lean towards telling everyone to eat some fruit of different colors. I can't help it!
**Is your waistline in a dangerous risk zone? How is your blood pressure, and insulin resistance? Any genetic problems regarding high lipids running in your family?
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Again, what I found problematic about your argument was the idea that fructose is worse than other sugars and thus that fruit is a problem. I think most people have very different reactions to individual foods containing sugar (and no interest in straight sugar), and that fruit is usually helpful, not something that is bad for people or provokes bingeing.
When have I ever said fruit was bad????????? I said fruit was a part of a healthy diet.
Did you even read what I wrote? I am all against added processed food, added sugars especially in the form of high fructose corn syrup which your Dr. Katz has even testified against.
Where I got into the fructose argument if you read and follow the thread is when someone stated fructose is metabolized the same as glucose. NOT! Biochem 101!!! In fact, if you had bothered to read what I said was that in addition to fructose and glucose, fruits had minerals, vitamins and fiber. Someone was quoting their source from wikipedia and yes, in return I used wikipedia as they seemed to believe it is a credible source. It does say this in the article:
It is also more lipogenic, or fat-producing, than glucose. Unlike glucose, too, it does not cause insulin to be released or stimulate production of leptin, a key hormone for regulating energy intake and expenditure. These factors raise concerns about chronically high intakes of dietary fructose, because it appears to behave more like fat in the body than like other carbohydrates.
Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic β cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate.
Not sure why you are so down on me.0 -
Again, what I found problematic about your argument was the idea that fructose is worse than other sugars and thus that fruit is a problem. I think most people have very different reactions to individual foods containing sugar (and no interest in straight sugar), and that fruit is usually helpful, not something that is bad for people or provokes bingeing.
When have I ever said fruit was bad????????? I said fruit was a part of a healthy diet.
Did you even read what I wrote? I am all against added processed food, added sugars especially in the form of high fructose corn syrup which your Dr. Katz has even testified against.
Where I got into the fructose argument if you read and follow the thread is when someone stated fructose is metabolized the same as glucose. NOT! Biochem 101!!! In fact, if you had bothered to read what I said was that in addition to fructose and glucose, fruits had minerals, vitamins and fiber. Someone was quoting their source from wikipedia and yes, in return I used wikipedia as they seemed to believe it is a credible source. It does say this in the article:
It is also more lipogenic, or fat-producing, than glucose. Unlike glucose, too, it does not cause insulin to be released or stimulate production of leptin, a key hormone for regulating energy intake and expenditure. These factors raise concerns about chronically high intakes of dietary fructose, because it appears to behave more like fat in the body than like other carbohydrates.
Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic β cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate.
Not sure why you are so down on me.
Many fruits contain a good amount more fructose than glucose. While table sugar is always 50/50.0 -
Mountain Dew
20 oz (590 ml) Bottle
Sugars, total: 77grams
Calories, total: 290
Calories from sugar: 290
Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
Bananas: 1 medium banana has 105 calories, and 7.1 grams of fructose.
Plus again I will state, with fruits you get vitamins, fiber and minerals. They take longer to digest.0 -
Well I started by logging a normal few days worth of food and recognised where my sugar came from. All my life I've been taking in (100-150 a day) 700-1000kg of sugar a week... thats a bag! Past few days I cut they food items out and I have taken in like 40g a day. A third of what I normally take. It was easier for me as my sugar came from orange juice, adding sugar to things and cereals. Wasnt much to cut out! Best of luck.0
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Mountain Dew
20 oz (590 ml) Bottle
Sugars, total: 77grams
Calories, total: 290
Calories from sugar: 290
Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
Bananas: 1 medium banana has 105 calories, and 7.1 grams of fructose.
Plus again I will state, with fruits you get vitamins, fiber and minerals. They take longer to digest.
You're conflating total sugar with only fructose here.0 -
MsZombieApocalypse wrote: »Well I started by logging a normal few days worth of food and recognised where my sugar came from. All my life I've been taking in (100-150 a day) 700-1000kg of sugar a week... thats a bag! Past few days I cut they food items out and I have taken in like 40g a day. A third of what I normally take. It was easier for me as my sugar came from orange juice, adding sugar to things and cereals. Wasnt much to cut out! Best of luck.
1000kg of sugar a week, you would be well and truly zombified
You mean grams, right? 1000g = 1kg
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Sugar is implicated in triglycerides. Eat fewer processed foods and eat whole fruit instead of drinking juice. Don't add sugar to anything. Your sweet tooth might disappear if you don't cater to it.0
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To lower your cholesterol eat oatmeal.
To lower the sugar:
- one or two servings of fruit per day, if you need more vitamins start taking multi-vitamins supps (ask your doctor first). Fruit is sugar
- don't drink your fruit, eat it
- drink lots of water, it will help with the cravings
- eat leafy greens, it will help with the cravings
- don't use salad dressings, full of hidden sugar
- avoid eating too much white potato, grains and rice, it convert to sugar. Sweet potato is better
- eat veggies with high protein like mushroom, high protein diet decrease cravings
- if you eat dairy better to avoid it, it's sugar
- most ready food, canned food, packaged food have hidden sugar, make your own at home
Hope this helps!0 -
Again, what I found problematic about your argument was the idea that fructose is worse than other sugars and thus that fruit is a problem. I think most people have very different reactions to individual foods containing sugar (and no interest in straight sugar), and that fruit is usually helpful, not something that is bad for people or provokes bingeing.
When have I ever said fruit was bad????????? I said fruit was a part of a healthy diet.
You argued that fructose was bad for us vs. other sugars. You do know that fructose is prevalent in fruit, right?
That's why I posted the pieces from David Katz, as he was addressing that specific argument (and expressing concern about the way in which the focus on fructose has made people afraid to eat fruit, which we see all the time on MFP).Did you even read what I wrote? I am all against added processed food, added sugars especially in the form of high fructose corn syrup which your Dr. Katz has even testified against.
Processed is a meaningless term. A vast array of food (from the smoked salmon and cottage cheese I ate this morning to the paczki my co-worker brought us from her family's bakery -- trust me, no HFCS, although definitely high cal and not especially nutrient rich in nutrients I would otherwise have trouble getting). I'm not sure why you are focusing on HFCS. There are numerous sources of fructose besides HFCS. Plenty of people who enjoy and overeat sugar likely don't eat much HFCS.Where I got into the fructose argument if you read and follow the thread is when someone stated fructose is metabolized the same as glucose.
The question is whether it is worse for us -- again, should we be avoiding fruit? -- and actually that poster has responded to your points about metabolism.Not sure why you are so down on me.
I'm not at all. I agree with some of your points, and don't dislike people just because I disagree with them. I think the point about fruit (which contains fructose) is an important one, that's all. As for being down on people, weren't you were the one who accused me of shaming people who wanted to cut down on sugar, just a few posts back, when my point has been to defend fruit (and eating sugar in general in moderation) and to encourage people to cut down if they eat excess or otherwise want to. I think most Americans eat more foods high in added sugar than they probably should.
I find that these threads often result in people talking past each other and I think one big reason is that factual statements like sugar is basically sugar -- there's no evidence of a significant difference when it comes to health based on type of sugar -- or "a calorie is a calorie" get misinterpreted, despite careful explanations to the contrary, as people saying what you eat doesn't matter, that nutrition doesn't matter, or that foods are all the same. But no one says or means those things.0 -
Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
My favorite example, from my own recipe box:
One of my chocolate chip cookies: 206 calories, 14 grams of sugar (sucrose, as I don't cook with HFCS).
150 g apple: 78 calories, 16 grams of sugar (a mix of fructose, sucrose, and glucose)
Yes, the chocolate chip cookie will be harder for me not to overeat. Depending on what else I've had in my day, the apple may add more nutrients I need (probably not, though, given how I tend to eat) and has more fiber. Neither is necessarily more filling, as it really depends (this is for me, as I can find a cookie filling). The biggest advantage the apple has, of course, is that it has many fewer calories.
But, of course, the cookie has fewer calories from sugar (and fructose). It has a lot more calories from butter.
Focusing on the differences between the sugars, vs. the differences between the foods makes no sense at all to me.
And if someone ate lots of cookies and no fruit and asked how to decrease their sugar consumption, I'd say "eat fewer cookies and consider whether some other sources of sweetness (although they do have sugar, of course) might work for you and lead to less overeating, like fruit." But that's because I don't think the issue is so much sugar but control and calories.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
My favorite example, from my own recipe box:
One of my chocolate chip cookies: 206 calories, 14 grams of sugar (sucrose, as I don't cook with HFCS).
150 g apple: 78 calories, 16 grams of sugar (a mix of fructose, sucrose, and glucose)
Yes, the chocolate chip cookie will be harder for me not to overeat. Depending on what else I've had in my day, the apple may add more nutrients I need (probably not, though, given how I tend to eat) and has more fiber. Neither is necessarily more filling, as it really depends (this is for me, as I can find a cookie filling). The biggest advantage the apple has, of course, is that it has many fewer calories.
But, of course, the cookie has fewer calories from sugar (and fructose). It has a lot more calories from butter.
Focusing on the differences between the sugars, vs. the differences between the foods makes no sense at all to me.
And if someone ate lots of cookies and no fruit and asked how to decrease their sugar consumption, I'd say "eat fewer cookies and consider whether some other sources of sweetness (although they do have sugar, of course) might work for you and lead to less overeating, like fruit." But that's because I don't think the issue is so much sugar but control and calories.
weight of the cookies?
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Cookies?
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
My favorite example, from my own recipe box:
One of my chocolate chip cookies: 206 calories, 14 grams of sugar (sucrose, as I don't cook with HFCS).
150 g apple: 78 calories, 16 grams of sugar (a mix of fructose, sucrose, and glucose)
Yes, the chocolate chip cookie will be harder for me not to overeat. Depending on what else I've had in my day, the apple may add more nutrients I need (probably not, though, given how I tend to eat) and has more fiber. Neither is necessarily more filling, as it really depends (this is for me, as I can find a cookie filling). The biggest advantage the apple has, of course, is that it has many fewer calories.
But, of course, the cookie has fewer calories from sugar (and fructose). It has a lot more calories from butter.
Focusing on the differences between the sugars, vs. the differences between the foods makes no sense at all to me.
And if someone ate lots of cookies and no fruit and asked how to decrease their sugar consumption, I'd say "eat fewer cookies and consider whether some other sources of sweetness (although they do have sugar, of course) might work for you and lead to less overeating, like fruit." But that's because I don't think the issue is so much sugar but control and calories.
weight of the cookies?
I don't have them broken up by weight, but by # per batch. 206 calories should give you a good idea of the size, though.
Calories from (and likely main sources of): 13 grams of fat (butter, eggs, chocolate), 2 grams of protein (eggs, flour), 22 grams of carbs (flour, sugar, chocolate), 14 g sugar (sugar, chocolate). More fat than carbs. Chips are semi-sweet.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Apples: 1 medium apple has 95 calories, and 12.6 grams of fructose. You would have to eat 2-1/2 apples to get to 240 calories and still have half the amount of sugar.
My favorite example, from my own recipe box:
One of my chocolate chip cookies: 206 calories, 14 grams of sugar (sucrose, as I don't cook with HFCS).
150 g apple: 78 calories, 16 grams of sugar (a mix of fructose, sucrose, and glucose)
Yes, the chocolate chip cookie will be harder for me not to overeat. Depending on what else I've had in my day, the apple may add more nutrients I need (probably not, though, given how I tend to eat) and has more fiber. Neither is necessarily more filling, as it really depends (this is for me, as I can find a cookie filling). The biggest advantage the apple has, of course, is that it has many fewer calories.
But, of course, the cookie has fewer calories from sugar (and fructose). It has a lot more calories from butter.
Focusing on the differences between the sugars, vs. the differences between the foods makes no sense at all to me.
And if someone ate lots of cookies and no fruit and asked how to decrease their sugar consumption, I'd say "eat fewer cookies and consider whether some other sources of sweetness (although they do have sugar, of course) might work for you and lead to less overeating, like fruit." But that's because I don't think the issue is so much sugar but control and calories.
Interesting comparison. You state that "neither is more filling", although you qualify it with "this is for me". An apple alone rarely satisfies me, I usually end up grabbing a few nuts to go with it. But for me, cookies are more like an appetite stimulant than a food that satisfies. Looking at how much filling fat there is in your cookies, and given that there is actually less sugar, this doesn't make sense. Maybe it's the lack of fibre? The speed with which glucose enters my blood?
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To lower your cholesterol eat oatmeal.
To lower the sugar:
- one or two servings of fruit per day, if you need more vitamins start taking multi-vitamins supps (ask your doctor first). Fruit is sugar
- don't drink your fruit, eat it
- drink lots of water, it will help with the cravings
- eat leafy greens, it will help with the cravings
- don't use salad dressings, full of hidden sugar
- avoid eating too much white potato, grains and rice, it convert to sugar. Sweet potato is better
- eat veggies with high protein like mushroom, high protein diet decrease cravings
- if you eat dairy better to avoid it, it's sugar
- most ready food, canned food, packaged food have hidden sugar, make your own at home
Hope this helps!
Thanks for your suggestions. That is helpful!0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »I found a few studies, but I'm not diving into all that while we're discussing the fructose-sucrose thing or anything like certain researchers that might get the thread closed, because I hate writing up science posts and then having the thread missing!
But one key question, imho, is whether your lipids are already higher than you like. Metabolism of sugar can certainly affect that, but if someone has no biomarkers for those sorts of problems other than being overfat**, I'm not sure the advice is the same. OTOH, cutting down on added sugar or higher levels of carbs should never make anyone feel silly/guilty. It's a fine thing to do if you like anyway. Carbs are special like that.
But fruits offer so many amazing benefits, particularly to cardiovascular health btw, that I will lean towards telling everyone to eat some fruit of different colors. I can't help it!
**Is your waistline in a dangerous risk zone? How is your blood pressure, and insulin resistance? Any genetic problems regarding high lipids running in your family?
Thanks! To the last statement yes everything sucks! I'm 5' 187lbs my blood pressure is creeping up and I already have a superficial clot in my leg that is incredibly annoying.
Not sure about insulin but diabetes and heart disease run in my family.
Overall I I think lowering sugar would benefit my current predicament as I am also lowering calories and trying to excersize more, while eating steel cut oats most days. I also agree that a few servings of fruits a day is a benefit.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »What do you have to say in response to the two David Katz articles that I linked and quoted, that directly discuss this issue?
Wiki on Katz: David L. Katz (born 20 February 1963 in Los Angeles, California) is a nutritionist and the founding director of the Prevention Research Center at Yale University, as well as an associate professor of public health practice at the Yale University School of Medicine. In 2005, Katz was appointed the associate director for nutrition science at the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity at Yale.
I would want to know what association Dr Katz (and Yale) have with the International Sugar Association and what kind of money they have given him (or yale) to produce his studies.0 -
cross2bear wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What do you have to say in response to the two David Katz articles that I linked and quoted, that directly discuss this issue?
Wiki on Katz: David L. Katz (born 20 February 1963 in Los Angeles, California) is a nutritionist and the founding director of the Prevention Research Center at Yale University, as well as an associate professor of public health practice at the Yale University School of Medicine. In 2005, Katz was appointed the associate director for nutrition science at the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity at Yale.
I would want to know what association Dr Katz (and Yale) have with the International Sugar Association and what kind of money they have given him (or yale) to produce his studies.
Seriously?0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »Yeah, my endocrinologist wanted to put me on statins for my triglycerides and that completely freaked me out, because I really watch my balance of types of fat and had never had lipid issues before. At the same time my blood sugars had gone pre-diabetic for several months at that point. I didn't need to lose more weight, but I had just lost weight recently.
Just from cutting down on carbs to control my blood sugars, my triglycerides got great I didn't change anything else at that point. I had read about the research on triglycerides and diabetes and metabolic syndrome, so it wasn't a huge surprise, but it was still a pleasant one.
I haven't read all the studies posted in this thread, but yes, scientists have been studying for a while now the effect of blood glucose on lipid problems. It's frequently discussed regarding 'metabolic syndrome', which usually includes overfat folks, but I have read studies that controlled even better for weight than most. I'll try to find a couple tomorrow, maybe.
Unfortunately the titles don't always hint that they used normal-weight subjects, so you have to wade through the plethora of studies that control for weight in ways but don't always investigate normal-weight folks as study groups. Metabolic syndrome is pretty darned important on its own, though, so even if it is extra weight that is causing sugar metabolism to be wonky, I think it matters. (And BTW, that's where a lot of research seems to lead: that weight problems can disrupt more systems than they previously thought. The issue of normal-weight folks also having to have the problem is indeed a separate question.)
Anyway, I do fit the normal-weight category nicely as a case study But I have hyperglycemia, so that explains my triglyceride problem right there and doesn't indicate that someone not getting blood sugar problems would see the benefit I did from reducing carbs. Dunno about that 
Thats interesting!0 -
I've cut down on my sugar intake by reducing my overall caloric intake. Now that I don't eat as much overall, I'm pretty much forced to lower my sugar intake. I personally don't even track sugar.
However, judging from the fact that this thread has gone on for 5 pages, I have a feeling that this answer will be lost on many and you all will keep arguing about how sugar is going to kill us all.
I'll be over here enjoying my chocolate biscotti that I will be fitting into my daily goals.0
This discussion has been closed.
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