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more protien better...or not?
Replies
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
I would question that. I would think obesity wold be a bigger cause. The fact, that one has BG spikes all day long isn't the driving factor. But if you have some research on it, I would love to see it.0 -
ok ok ok.. one thing you must always remember with protein is!!!!! consume your daily minimum.. thats it!!!
now if you wish to increase muscle growth im talking bulk then increase protein gradually.. if you want lean muscle stick with your minimum and do it the natural way by hard work and various exercises.. marketing has people freaking about carbs and protein.. your body needs both!!!! your daily minimum is enough for day to day, if you are super active increase those levels slightly.. not 2 or 3 shakes a day!! one jacks your stomach up second its a waist of money lol... everyone here has great advice, just take examples from everyone and test them out..
If protein shakes are 'jacking up your stomach', try a different protein. Better yet, if you've got the calories to spare get the protein through regular food.
That's not a good reason to eat the daily minimum (I assume you mean the RDA).
Wasn't there a study that indicated that eating more than the RDA of protein correlated to preserving muscle mass as you age? Or am I pulling that out of the ether?
You are on point. In fact, elderly people are suggested to eat high levels of protein than the average person. I will see if I can dig up the research.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »
No, but the suggestion to have lab work (or check your last results) isn't a bad one if you've got risk factors for kidney disease - like you're diabetic or have high blood pressure. Kidney disease is sneaky and usually isn't discovered until it's really far along. Moderately high protein intake can absolutely make that worse.
Very true. And I would even say it's worth getting bloodwork done annually regardless of protein intake.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Insulin spikes keep people from having high blood glucose spikes.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Actually, according to the mayo clinic, there is no known cause, although genetics, excess weight and inactivity are the main risk factors.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/symptoms-causes/dxc-201698610 -
@ForecasterJason a diabetic state as in dangerously high blood sugar (hyperglycemia) or dangerously low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)? As a type 2 I never spiked or dipped on protein. In fact, I never dipped at all until I got closer to normal weight. Protein usually metablolises too slowly to affect me one way or another. Whey protein, as I've learned from the body builders here, is an exception.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Insulin spikes keep people from having high blood glucose spikes.
Understood. But considering a large portion of the population (more than 100,000,000 Americans) have a disruptive insulin and glucose metabolism, I think more people should be concerned about insulin spikes.Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Actually, according to the mayo clinic, there is no known cause, although genetics, excess weight and inactivity are the main risk factors.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/symptoms-causes/dxc-201698610 -
Right, I did not think protein was usually much of a factor. If my understanding is correct, I thought all along that it's the insulin spike in response to carbs/high blood sugar that is more so the issue.@ForecasterJason a diabetic state as in dangerously high blood sugar (hyperglycemia) or dangerously low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)? As a type 2 I never spiked or dipped on protein. In fact, I never dipped at all until I got closer to normal weight. Protein usually metablolises too slowly to affect me one way or another. Whey protein, as I've learned from the body builders here, is an exception.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
When insulin "spikes" this prevents BG from spiking...so in other words, if your insulin is spiking...congratulations...your body is working the way it should. When you fail to produce enough insulin and you're not getting insulin spikes...well, this is where the issue is...
Note that it said protein causes insulin spikes...not BG spikes.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Insulin spikes keep people from having high blood glucose spikes.
Understood. But considering a large portion of the population (more than 100,000,000 Americans) have a disruptive insulin and glucose metabolism, I think more people should be concerned about insulin spikes.Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Actually, according to the mayo clinic, there is no known cause, although genetics, excess weight and inactivity are the main risk factors.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/symptoms-causes/dxc-20169861
1 out 3 Americans? Depending on how it is defined, that's pretty good when 2 out of 3 Americans are overweight or obese.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Insulin spikes keep people from having high blood glucose spikes.
Understood. But considering a large portion of the population (more than 100,000,000 Americans) have a disruptive insulin and glucose metabolism, I think more people should be concerned about insulin spikes.Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's worth noting though that very high BG spikes is what can (over time) drag some healthy individuals into a diabetic state. So while for most people it may be fine, some people do need to be mindful of this.Carlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lisawinning4losing wrote: »Well, protein keeps me a lot more full than carbs, so I figure that's a much better use of my calories. It also keeps your insulin levels stable because it digests more slowly (read: good for the metabolism), and it helps to build muscle, so I'd say it's a good thing! I definitely wouldn't worry about getting too bulky. Lol.
Protein actually spikes insulin (no big deal though because this is normal and healthy and doesn't hurt your metabolism).
does any food raising your insulin levels?
Many fats don't (but some do). The hype around insulin spikes is just that, hype. Unless someone is diabetic, there's no reason to be concerned about the fact that a food raises insulin levels. In healthy individuals, that's what supposed to happen.
Actually, according to the mayo clinic, there is no known cause, although genetics, excess weight and inactivity are the main risk factors.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/symptoms-causes/dxc-20169861
1 out 3 Americans? Depending on how it is defined, that's pretty good when 2 out of 3 Americans are overweight or obese.
Also, take into consideration a large portion of that 1 out of 3 is undiagnosed and the US keeps lowering it's standard (comparatively to other countries), its hard to tell what the actual number is.
Either way, it doesn't support the original claim.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Right, I did not think protein was usually much of a factor. If my understanding is correct, I thought all along that it's the insulin spike in response to carbs/high blood sugar that is more so the issue.@ForecasterJason a diabetic state as in dangerously high blood sugar (hyperglycemia) or dangerously low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)? As a type 2 I never spiked or dipped on protein. In fact, I never dipped at all until I got closer to normal weight. Protein usually metablolises too slowly to affect me one way or another. Whey protein, as I've learned from the body builders here, is an exception.
Insulin is supposed to spike in response to glucose and protein. The issue is more when it starts plateau - gets high and stays high because glucose is free circulating instead of being taken into cells.0 -
ok ok ok.. one thing you must always remember with protein is!!!!! consume your daily minimum.. thats it!!!
now if you wish to increase muscle growth im talking bulk then increase protein gradually.. if you want lean muscle stick with your minimum and do it the natural way by hard work and various exercises.. marketing has people freaking about carbs and protein.. your body needs both!!!! your daily minimum is enough for day to day, if you are super active increase those levels slightly.. not 2 or 3 shakes a day!! one jacks your stomach up second its a waist of money lol... everyone here has great advice, just take examples from everyone and test them out..
If protein shakes are 'jacking up your stomach', try a different protein. Better yet, if you've got the calories to spare get the protein through regular food.
That's not a good reason to eat the daily minimum (I assume you mean the RDA).
Wasn't there a study that indicated that eating more than the RDA of protein correlated to preserving muscle mass as you age? Or am I pulling that out of the ether?
i didnt mean it towards myself, but i have been around plenty of both women and men that take more then they can handle and its a waste "literally" haha. i was just putting it out there.. people are just so stuck on protein these days that you do not need much of it to meet goals.. simple goals i should say.. yes you need protein like everyone knows that.. and everyone needs to know their own daily (depends on many things) based on their goals.. thats also why i said gradually increase!! lol.. regular food is best for protein (my opinion) unless you are on a medical diet then supplements work. when you are starting out you need to meet your/ mecidcal average intake in all fields and work with that before increasing .. now this and all comments on here are subject to debate but slow and easy always wins in the long run.. listen to your body, like i also said earlier try different tips/examples from the different members... and find your sweet spot lol.0 -
ok ok ok.. one thing you must always remember with protein is!!!!! consume your daily minimum.. thats it!!!
now if you wish to increase muscle growth im talking bulk then increase protein gradually.. if you want lean muscle stick with your minimum and do it the natural way by hard work and various exercises.. marketing has people freaking about carbs and protein.. your body needs both!!!! your daily minimum is enough for day to day, if you are super active increase those levels slightly.. not 2 or 3 shakes a day!! one jacks your stomach up second its a waist of money lol... everyone here has great advice, just take examples from everyone and test them out..
If protein shakes are 'jacking up your stomach', try a different protein. Better yet, if you've got the calories to spare get the protein through regular food.
That's not a good reason to eat the daily minimum (I assume you mean the RDA).
Wasn't there a study that indicated that eating more than the RDA of protein correlated to preserving muscle mass as you age? Or am I pulling that out of the ether?
i didnt mean it towards myself, but i have been around plenty of both women and men that take more then they can handle and its a waste "literally" haha. i was just putting it out there.. people are just so stuck on protein these days that you do not need much of it to meet goals.. simple goals i should say.. yes you need protein like everyone knows that.. and everyone needs to know their own daily (depends on many things) based on their goals.. thats also why i said gradually increase!! lol.. regular food is best for protein (my opinion) unless you are on a medical diet then supplements work. when you are starting out you need to meet your/ mecidcal average intake in all fields and work with that before increasing .. now this and all comments on here are subject to debate but slow and easy always wins in the long run.. listen to your body, like i also said earlier try different tips/examples from the different members... and find your sweet spot lol.
Still no.
There is no reason to say it's better to start with the rdi and gradually increase. There's no reason to say that the rdi is better for lean muscle gains. There's no reason to say you "don't need much of it to meet goals."0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Right, I did not think protein was usually much of a factor. If my understanding is correct, I thought all along that it's the insulin spike in response to carbs/high blood sugar that is more so the issue.@ForecasterJason a diabetic state as in dangerously high blood sugar (hyperglycemia) or dangerously low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)? As a type 2 I never spiked or dipped on protein. In fact, I never dipped at all until I got closer to normal weight. Protein usually metablolises too slowly to affect me one way or another. Whey protein, as I've learned from the body builders here, is an exception.
Insulin is supposed to spike in response to glucose and protein. The issue is more when it starts plateau - gets high and stays high because glucose is free circulating instead of being taken into cells.
This is one of the better explanations I've heard. Thank you.0 -
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For maintaining weight, I am at .5 Gram of protein / per pound. It takes me about 3-4 months to go thru 5 lb of protein0
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This was on his Facebook page today........
Brad Schoenfeld
2 hrs · Ossining, NY, United States ·
I'm in the process of writing up an article on the maximal amount of protein that can be used for muscle-building in a single meal and hence implications for frequency of feedings. A good amount of interesting research on the topic, but it's important to consider that protein metabolism is influenced by a variety of factors (protein source, protein dosage, whether other nutrients are simultaneously consumed, etc). Not as black-and-white a topic as it may seem on the surface - findings need a good deal of extrapolation to draw evidence-based conclusions.0 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »This was on his Facebook page today........
Brad Schoenfeld
2 hrs · Ossining, NY, United States ·
I'm in the process of writing up an article on the maximal amount of protein that can be used for muscle-building in a single meal and hence implications for frequency of feedings. A good amount of interesting research on the topic, but it's important to consider that protein metabolism is influenced by a variety of factors (protein source, protein dosage, whether other nutrients are simultaneously consumed, etc). Not as black-and-white a topic as it may seem on the surface - findings need a good deal of extrapolation to draw evidence-based conclusions.
Oh that is excited0 -
Excerpt:High protein diets have been found to preserve lean body mass when dieting in both obese people[11] and athletes [12] and has also been shown to improve overall body composition[13]. A doubling of protein intake from 0.9g/kg (near the daily recommended intake for the general population) to 1.8g/kg is able to preserve lean muscle mass during short-term and relatively drastic drops in calories.[14]0 -
The only problems with increasing protein % for haphazard dieters is that it then requires more nutritious foods from your remaining calories as fats and especially carbs.
So you have to drop a Bladder Buster size Coke, a Biggie order of fries or a couple doughnuts for something healthier. Where's the problem?0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »I try to eat/drink 1gram of protein per pound I weigh. But being around 250Lbs, that's pretty hard. Therefore I normally drink 1 or 2 protein shakes a day. And I have for about the past 15 years.
Ya know...the whole grams per pound thing is supposed to be for pounds of lean body mass...
You could be getting by with a lot less.
And this is why you will see some sources recommend .8 gm per pound. Just doing a rough estimate assuming 20% BF.0 -
Didn't want to start a new thread, but a person I have quite high regard for has been saying the average Western diet contains more than enough protein, and doesn't need extra concern and supplementation when in a deficit.
Thoughts?
I thought I'd mention it because there seems to be great concern these days and at MFP about getting enough protein in a deficit, but 20 years ago, before this trend started, millions of dieting people weren't fading away with muscle wastage.
Bit puzzled.
Does this person have registered dietitian or PhD in Nutrition behind their name?0 -
The Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends 10-35% of calories from protein. As a 6'2" 205 lb male I aim for about 200 gm of protein a day. I maintain at around 2800 calories a day (maybe a bit more) so at a gram per pound of bodyweight I'm right around 30% of calories from protein.
Hard to say how anyone would call that excessive.
0
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