Vegan gone unvegan because of bone broth craze?
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janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?0 -
pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?1 -
Presumably bone broth, not meat, but I initially read that as eating meat was the trend.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
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Bone broth = soup stock... if soup is a regular part of your diet then ummm figure it out... as many animals as we consume beef, pork, chicken, lamb/ mutton, various fish, etc. People have been boiling and rendering the marrow since we crawled into caves and made use of fire. Of course you don't need chunks of an animal skeleton to make soup stock... but vegetable soup stock will obviously lack bone marrow... which is the primary benefit of simmering stock for days...
I make a 16 cup batch about every 3 months and use it instead of buying it at the store ... less salt and more vegetables and herbs... talk to your grandparents about "bone broth" i find the term laughable like some marketing genius suddenly invented it... ridiculous to even discuss the merits when it's been a cooking staple for millennia1 -
MobOfBricks wrote: »Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
I would expect most vegans would not throw away things they already own. The maximum damage to animals is done at purchase time (or more specifically, at the time when it is no longer refundable), not at the time of its use. The same goes for food, it's generally better to finish consuming any animal-containing food you have instead of throwing it away and purchasing vegan replacements.0 -
pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.0 -
MobOfBricks wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
Some vegans find new homes for items like belts (donation, giving to friends, etc) while others continue to use them until they're worn out and then buy vegan replacements. It's a personal preference, but I imagine most would agree with you that throwing it in the trash isn't a good solution. I personally wore a leather watchband for my first couple years of veganism. My intention was to use it until it wore out, but eventually I became too uncomfortable with it so I gave it to a friend who I knew would wear and enjoy it.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
Apparently so... http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/04/04/522190305/broth-loving-hipsters-are-pushing-up-the-price-of-bones0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."0 -
"[…] a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. "
Does this include using animals for labor? Were those veggies carried to market in a cart being pulled by a horse/donkey? Did those local organic veggies come from a field plowed by a horse? ... or was fertilizer used that came from livestock? The language used seems a bit extreme.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."
Hmm, interesting...
Yeah, stuff like this is weird...I make bone broth in the winter for soups and stews because it's delicious. I guess it's kind of like how my wife and I started eating quinoa years ago after a trip to Peru...the all of a sudden I had friends commenting on being "trendy"...I was eating quinoa way before quinoa was cool...
I'm curious as to how some of my friends haven't jumped on this though...I have a few friends who seem to always jump on the latest nutrition thing...0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »"[…] a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. "
Does this include using animals for labor? Were those veggies carried to market in a cart being pulled by a horse/donkey? Did those local organic veggies come from a field plowed by a horse? ... or was fertilizer used that came from livestock? The language used seems a bit extreme.
I am sure there are some countries that still use horses to plow and take vegetables to market in carts pulled by donkeys, but I am in the US where that isn't happening much.
As far as fertilizer, you'll notice the language about "as far as possible and practicable" in the text you pasted above. None of us can live a life that is entirely free of animal exploitation (drugs are tested on animals, for example). It's about identifying the items that we can do without and supporting a world where we develop further alternatives to using animals in this way.
I don't think there is anything particularly extreme about identifying behavior that we don't support and don't wish to participate in. It's something that most of us do in certain areas of life. Vegans just do this when it comes to animals, that's the only difference.1 -
People decide for themselves what they think is the most ethical manner to deal with items they already own, which they bought prior to becoming vegan. There isn't a set rule for it.MobOfBricks wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
Mostly, people opt to use the item for the rest of its natural life and they plan to replace it with a vegan alternative as soon as that becomes appropriate. Some donate the item (s) and replace immediately, and some throw stuff away.
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
People decide for themselves what they think is the most ethical manner to deal with items they already own, which they bought prior to becoming vegan. There isn't a set rule for it.MobOfBricks wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
Mostly, people opt to use the item for the rest of its natural life and they plan to replace it with a vegan alternative as soon as that becomes appropriate. Some donate the item (s) and replace immediately, and some throw stuff away.
Thank you and janejellyroll for your responses.
I see veganism as a full measure environmental activism.
Your responses clarify to me that common sense and reason should override "black or white" rules sourced by the internet.
Boiling a dead animal's bone for 24 hours and then drink its juice, apart from being as horrible as it sounds, it also has probably the same health benefits as boiling my shoe for 24 hours.
It is not only the exploitation of the animal, it is also the exploitation of the humans and the energy needed to convince people to buy bone juice.
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If you read the book The Blue Zones, about the five regions of the world where people live the longest, they are mostly plant based but eat meat on average five times a month. In Sardinia they have minestrone soup for lunch and often use some bones in their broth. In Okinawa Japan they have miso soup daily which is a tofu soup made with fish stock. It seems like mixing a plant based diet with a little bones is good. When I make bone broth I can often use the same bones up to three times.0
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All seems mad to me. I haven't personally come across anyone pushing bone broth as a health food, but the primary association that comes to mind when I think of bone broth isn't Super Health Food, but frugality!
To be honest, given my values, that's no bad thing. I am absolutely 100% in favour of people who eat meat being frugal and using all the parts; I'd much rather people used all of one chicken than that they bought two and used half of each. But doesn't mean I'm eating it in a million years!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."
Yep, this. For example, I was at SnapKitchen not long ago, and they had some soups that were really pushing it.
On the container: "Thai Curry and Lime BONE BROTH" (bone broth in bigger letters). And on the bottom of the container, again: "made from real chicken bone broth."
They have a few different flavors (some chicken, some beef). One of them is also labeled "paleo friendly" and has goji berries and turmeric.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."
Hmm, interesting...
Yeah, stuff like this is weird...I make bone broth in the winter for soups and stews because it's delicious.
Yeah, agreed. I do it too, for that reason. I find the trendiness comical (it's trendy where I am, but I live in an area where people tend to be into food trends for sure), but I also find the idea that it's disgusting (on this thread) a little odd.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."
Hmm, interesting...
Yeah, stuff like this is weird...I make bone broth in the winter for soups and stews because it's delicious.
Yeah, agreed. I do it too, for that reason. I find the trendiness comical (it's trendy where I am, but I live in an area where people tend to be into food trends for sure), but I also find the idea that it's disgusting (on this thread) a little odd.
Apparently not too many hipsters in the deserts of New Mexico...0
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