Feminists and nonconformists - where do your goals come from?
cristalball
Posts: 14 Member
How do you know if you are bowing to society's views and pressures to try to obtain the "ideal" body or if your goals are more internally and personally motivated? Or does it even matter? I ask because I'm not sure for my own goals and was curious about others.
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Because I want to be beautiful and healthy for myself.0
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As a very outspoken advocate against body-shaming, and a born and bred feminist, I can happily say that it's MY body and I'll make it look however I dam well please. If that happens to mimic societal beauty standards, so be it. I know what I want to look like. I know how I want to feel (energetic and happy). And uterus notwithstanding, I'm perfectly capable of making that decision in spite of the fashion industry.
I also really like clothes I find pretty. I like to feel pretty. I have no issue existing in both spheres and cannot comprehend why I shouldn't.
Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to stop caring what you look like. It means you don't let other people decide that for you. Whether that be some guy saying you're ugly because you don't meet his standard of sexual desirability (cause you are more than a sexual object) or some other woman saying you need to meet standards to be socially acceptable.0 -
I pretty much just want to be strong and healthy. What it looks like? Meh. But I'm old, so I may be an outlier.0
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One of the great failures of the feminist movement was convincing everyone that femininity (lipstick feminism as it's so degradingly named) is somehow inferior to masculinity and thus that we should abandon our femininity as though it were a burden or a waste or the thing that's holding us back from equality. Femininity IS feminist. The idea that it's something undesirable or inferior is anti-feminist.
tl;dr You can absolutely like pretty dresses and hair and makeup and being pretty and still be a feminist.0 -
Oh don't get me started on haes/fa taking over feminism....
Look, I know I'm influenced by the society I've been raised in when it comes to what I find aesthetically pleasing, and my preference for a slimmer look is informed by that. But I don't see the point in remaining overweight to somehow spite society, particularly when I value my health. I am undeniably fitter and healthier at a lower weight. I am stronger, faster, and more productive at a lower weight. I am raising two daughters and I plan to teach them how to use their bodies, that they can be just as fast and strong as the boys, that they don't need to be damsels sitting on the sidelines like they're so often taught. And I think being fitter and healthier makes me a better feminist, not a worse one, and a better role model to raise feminist daughters.
As far as looks go, as I said, sure, my ideals are informed by society (and also biology), but I'm also the type to not really care what others think about what I look like (my hair and clothing is certainly not standard where I live), and I dgaf what others look like either.
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CoffeeNCardio wrote: »As a very outspoken advocate against body-shaming, and a born and bred feminist, I can happily say that it's MY body and I'll make it look however I dam well please. If that happens to mimic societal beauty standards, so be it. I know what I want to look like. I know how I want to feel (energetic and happy). And uterus notwithstanding, I'm perfectly capable of making that decision in spite of the fashion industry.
I also really like clothes I find pretty. I like to feel pretty. I have no issue existing in both spheres and cannot comprehend why I shouldn't.
Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to stop caring what you look like. It means you don't let other people decide that for you. Whether that be some guy saying you're ugly because you don't meet his standard of sexual desirability (cause you are more than a sexual object) or some other woman saying you need to meet standards to be socially acceptable.
qft
although I've never been interested in fashion and I can only shop for about 20 minutes before I want to kill people
and strength training0 -
bendyourkneekatie wrote: »Oh don't get me started on haes/fa taking over feminism....
Look, I know I'm influenced by the society I've been raised in when it comes to what I find aesthetically pleasing, and my preference for a slimmer look is informed by that. But I don't see the point in remaining overweight to somehow spite society, particularly when I value my health. I am undeniably fitter and healthier at a lower weight. I am stronger, faster, and more productive at a lower weight. I am raising two daughters and I plan to teach them how to use their bodies, that they can be just as fast and strong as the boys, that they don't need to be damsels sitting on the sidelines like they're so often taught. And I think being fitter and healthier makes me a better feminist, not a worse one, and a better role model to raise feminist daughters.
As far as looks go, as I said, sure, my ideals are informed by society (and also biology), but I'm also the type to not really care what others think about what I look like (my hair and clothing is certainly not standard where I live), and I dgaf what others look like either.
Well stated.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »One of the great failures of the feminist movement was convincing everyone that femininity (lipstick feminism as it's so degradingly named) is somehow inferior to masculinity and thus that we should abandon our femininity as though it were a burden or a waste or the thing that's holding us back from equality. Femininity IS feminist. The idea that it's something undesirable or inferior is anti-feminist.
tl;dr You can absolutely like pretty dresses and hair and makeup and being pretty and still be a feminist.
That's absolutely true. As if it were a sign of equality to imitate masculinity. Women should become aware of their own strong points, and that doesn't mean physical strength. Women are - in their own way - so much stronger than men. The very fact that we are the "preserver" of mankind is a strong argument. Just let a man have a baby... Ugh ... no chance for mankind.... ;0) And, for all military feminists, having a baby is no shame or a sign of inferiority, that is what the male world wants to make us believe. And anyway, it's a such a stupid thought and a shame. I have a dream ... to face each other with respect. Then, and only then, mankind will be grown-up.0 -
HAES is unfortunately a lie
people shouldn't tell themselves lies
there is nothing wrong in a feminist considering themselves a sexual being0 -
HAES is unfortunately a lie
people shouldn't tell themselves lies
there is nothing wrong in a feminist considering themselves a sexual being
@rabbitjb Truth.
Not directed at Rabbit: When I made the comment about sexual objectification, it was about objectification. Accepting your own sexuality, owning it, and being comfortable with yourself as a being both capable of sex and who enjoys sex is the very opposite. A feminist embraces their sexuality without allowing others to define them by it.0 -
HAES is unfortunately a lie
people shouldn't tell themselves lies
there is nothing wrong in a feminist considering themselves a sexual being
There is nothing wrong with ANYBODY considering themselves a sexual being. I know I'm the wrong gender to be contributing to this thread, but I'm just replying as somebody who has resorted to experimenting with steroids in order to attempt to adhere to attractivness standards.
On a different note, some of THE most inspiring people I've met on my fitness journey have been the many female lifters on here. The way I see it, if a woman can succeed and flourish in what has been traditionally a male-dominated environment then she is obviously skilled at what she does. To me, that embodies feminism far more than the aims of the HAES movement.
Anyway, I've probably kicked a hornet's nest just by replying to this thread and being male, so I'll make a quick retreat!0 -
HAES is unfortunately a lie
people shouldn't tell themselves lies
there is nothing wrong in a feminist considering themselves a sexual being
There is nothing wrong with ANYBODY considering themselves a sexual being. I know I'm the wrong gender to be contributing to this thread, but I'm just replying as somebody who has resorted to experimenting with steroids in order to attempt to adhere to attractivness standards.
On a different note, some of THE most inspiring people I've met on my fitness journey have been the many female lifters on here. The way I see it, if a woman can succeed and flourish in what has been traditionally a male-dominated environment then she is obviously skilled at what she does. To me, that embodies feminism far more than the aims of the HAES movement.
Anyway, I've probably kicked a hornet's nest just by replying to this thread and being male, so I'll make a quick retreat!
A Feminist is someone who believes in and strives for equality across the genders. A man is just as capable of being a feminist as a woman. And any feminist who cannot tolerate male allies is not a feminist at all. I am sorry if you have experienced a bad reception in the past for this, cause that's not what feminism is about. Feminists marry men, date men, give birth to men, and in many happy circumstances ARE men.0 -
A Feminist is someone who believes in and strives for equality across the genders. A man is just as capable of being a feminist as a woman. And any feminist who cannot tolerate male allies is not a feminist at all. I am sorry if you have experienced a bad reception in the past for this, cause that's not what feminism is about. Feminists marry men, date men, give birth to men, and in many happy circumstances ARE men.[/quote]
Agreed!0 -
Thanks!
It looks like I've been exposed to too much Tumblr!! 0 -
I don't want to look like a Victoria's Secret model, for real. I don't even understand why that's 'the look'. I do like a look that lots of people like, but you don't have to go opposite of what the 'standards' dictate, imho.
And for both women and men, I really like a lot of natural variation. I hate how everything is so damned similar in magazines, etc. And the natural variation part comes easily for some of us, lol. I won't ever have to worry about being mistaken for a perfect specimen of female beauty
So that's one way to handle it; even if you tried to achieve 'perfection' there'll probably be parts that just don't quite fit, and that's still great.0 -
HAES pisses me off. Obesity causes plenty of problems. Something like 50 - 80% of women who suffer from PCOS, for example, are obese. Coincidence? Diabetes. Knee problems. Back pain. I don't want to be obese. End of. The ideal body is not one with excess bodily fat.0
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HAES is unfortunately a lie
people shouldn't tell themselves lies
there is nothing wrong in a feminist considering themselves a sexual being
There is nothing wrong with ANYBODY considering themselves a sexual being. I know I'm the wrong gender to be contributing to this thread, but I'm just replying as somebody who has resorted to experimenting with steroids in order to attempt to adhere to attractivness standards.
On a different note, some of THE most inspiring people I've met on my fitness journey have been the many female lifters on here. The way I see it, if a woman can succeed and flourish in what has been traditionally a male-dominated environment then she is obviously skilled at what she does. To me, that embodies feminism far more than the aims of the HAES movement.
Anyway, I've probably kicked a hornet's nest just by replying to this thread and being male, so I'll make a quick retreat!
truth
.. and the kind of person who does not want a 'male' to have an opinion or self-define as a feminist by virtue of their being a 'male' can simply not be a defined as a feminist... the word one would be looking for there would be tw@t0 -
My goals come from wanting to be healthy. Diabetes and heart disease runs in the family. It just so happens that the way to combat this for me is through weight loss.
I also agree with the majority of posts above, if you want to look a certain way and it happens to agree with society as long as you don't impose it on other people then, in my opinion, that's a healthy attitude and feminist too.0 -
Societal: I want to be able to fit decently into the clothes I like. I could reject this and say clothes should fit me and not the other way around, blah blah blah but it is what it is
Personal: Being the stronger, fitter person means I'm the one they call on when a tough job requiring stamina needs to be completed, because I'll get it done, no excuses. At a larger body size I was still this person, but it got increasingly difficult and I couldn't output as much on demand as I wanted. Fitness, specifically, does mean I can do what I want, when I want, and that's empowering to me0 -
I'm a non-conformist in lots of ways and most definitely a feminist. I am also feminine, love to be feminine and all that comes with it. I am also pretty vain, always have been whatever my size.
I have a passion for history and clothing and buy a lot of vintage. Vintage is generally small, being smaller means I can fit into more pretties.
The thing that kick started me was my health starting to be impacted by my weight. I'm where I thought I would stop initially but my goals have changed and I just want to be hot now! Not for anyone else but me. I want to look in the mirror and see a physically strong and capable woman. I want to see less wobble and dimples. I think that partly comes from my mental health too (or lack thereof), my body and aesthetic is something I can control.
Anyone can be a feminist, all genders, all interests. Feminism does not and should not mean burning bras (my bewbs need all the support they can get thanks) and hairy armpits if that's not your jam.0 -
A Feminist is someone who believes in and strives for equality across the genders. A man is just as capable of being a feminist as a woman. And any feminist who cannot tolerate male allies is not a feminist at all. I am sorry if you have experienced a bad reception in the past for this, cause that's not what feminism is about. Feminists marry men, date men, give birth to men, and in many happy circumstances ARE men.
I'm pretty sure I'm a feminist, but it can sometimes feel like there's always a bigger feminist out there waiting to tell me I'm wrong...
Anyway, my goals are (at 42) being the best I can be, an example to the young people I work with and some serious good mental health from exercising. And I think it makes me look good, too.
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I know it's a lot more fun to have muscles and good health than to be over weight. I think I've always enjoyed hard physical work because no one expected me, as a 5 foot woman, to be able to keep up, let alone out do some on the job. Being fit enables me to do what I want, instead of just watching others. And now that I'm older I believe a body in motion, stays in motion. We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing.
You have to do it for yourself, it's empowering to push yourself and compete against yourself and believe in yourself. For me it never had anything to do with the latest fashion or what society expected of me.
More the joy of remembering when I wasn't able to do a certain physical task that over time, I've mastered.0 -
I think for me the most important take away from feminism is that people of any gender should have freedom of choice. So while I, due to socialization, societal messages etc. strive to look a certain way and accomplish goals that relate to fitness, I am very aware that it is a personal choice. There is no one size fits all in life and of course that relates to nutrition, fitness and body image. I know that there is a societal preference for a specific body type, especially for women, which I pretty much adhere to. That's why I think that it's important to support variation from that very narrow definition of acceptable femininity, even when personally fitting that mold.0
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Hello! I have been following lots of 'fat activists' for a while now on Twitter, and I sort of feel like it had hindered my journey. I need to lose weight for my health, I have PCOS and it is imperative that I reduce my body weight if I want to reduce my symptoms and protect my fertility. I agree hat HAES and FA are kind of *kitten*, because most of the people I know who subscribe to HAES don't *actually* try to be healthy, they just exercise and eat absolute crap. That's not healthy! It can't be healthy if the nutrition is all over the place.
I don't believe that weight loss needs to be a 'feminist' issue. I consider myself a feminist and was really annoyed by the backlash I got from some of my Twitter followers when I mentioned how good I felt having quit sugar (added sugar, mind). "We don't want diet chat", "That's fat-phobic". Shut up. I gave up sugar and within 7 days, I had my period back, which I hadn't had for about a year. Can you imagine people trying to make me feel bad for improving my own health, just because of their own agenda? What you do with your body is your own business, and anyone who wants to make you feel bad about it has no right to; they're probably just still insecure about themselves even though they might crow on about 'fat acceptance' and whatever.
You do what you need to do for yourself! Everyone here on MFP will support you because we're in it together 0 -
My goals come entirely from what I want to look like and what I want my body to be able to do. I don't really give a damn what society thinks, although I was much more aware of it 150 lbs ago (I wasn't fond of being the largest person in any given room, it made me uncomfortable to be stared at). I love being fit, healthy and strong with well defined muscle and most of my goals relate to how much stronger I can be or how much faster I can move.
And don't get me started on HAES. If I had believed in that crap I'd probably be 400 lbs by now and still full of excuses.0 -
cristalball wrote: »How do you know if you are bowing to society's views and pressures to try to obtain the "ideal" body or if your goals are more internally and personally motivated? Or does it even matter? I ask because I'm not sure for my own goals and was curious about others.
Well, you can lose weight or exercise for whatever reason you want. Be happy with who you are no matter what your outside looks like.
I think it can be pretty negative for your self esteem if you are changing your body to fit someone else's mold or demand. I think it is sad if you feel you need to surgically alter yourself, change your skin color or do extreme things to look "perfect" or try to be happy.
That "ideal body" is just a fad that will be different in a decade. I think lots of different body shapes are more attractive than everyone looking alike. I find it somewhat disturbing how much celebrities look alike- women and men. They are just people though no matter what they look like.
I am 41 years old and married for 16 years. I have a teenage daughter watching me. I'm not striving for society's ideal body. As an adult I have been from 100-180 lbs. I have some grey hairs now. I am always pale unless I am sunburned. I have never looked like a model at any weight. I'm still me and I'm okay.
I am striving for a healthy body because I deserve a healthy body. I want to be able to live my life fully and I need to weigh less or be more fit to do that.
I do care if my spouse finds me attractive and taking care of myself is a part of that. I don't care what my butt looks like or if I look great in a bikini on the beach though. A smaller dress size or a lower weight does not make me a more valuable person- it is just a number to me.
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Both @CoffeeNCardio and @bendyourkneekatie pretty much covered most of my thoughts on this verbatim.
Aside from aesthetics, I've noticed in the past 8 months of changing my lifestyle that a slew of other problems have pretty much gone away. Before I started exercising regularly and making better choices nutritionally, I would struggle to wake up every day. I'd go to work simply because I had to make money to live, then I'd come home, pig out and lie in bed until the morning. I never did much else. I was always upset and felt numb. Eventually I got tired of it and forced myself to make a change. Eight months and 27 pounds later, I'm a completely different person physically and mentally. I am up every morning at 5 am filled with energy, I'm a positive person and people around me feel that. I'm better at my job because of how I feel about myself and my life now. I'm only tired when I get home at night and it's time for bed. I sleep through the night and wake up well rested. I would have never imagined myself to change so much and I didn't know this is the person I always was.
That being said, I had a "friend" tell me that the only reason I'm happier now is because I fit society's ideal of beauty. They expressed a lot of vitriol toward my change in lifestyle and physique. It was hurtful and they were wrong. Some people will find me attractive and some people won't; every person has different standards of beauty. I wouldn't care either way, but as it turns out my brain isn't exactly wired for romantic relationships; I feel comfortable being alone and I always will. I didn't do this so that other people would find me physically attractive, I did it for my mental health. Daily routines and structure are what help me be the best person I can be. Every person here has a different story, therefore different reasons as to why they chose to change. Even if someone did it for the sole purpose of being "hot", that's completely within their rights to do so.
People will always find something to gripe about, especially people who call themselves feminists when they aren't. I was once told that since I shave, I'm "conforming to the patriarchy" when in reality I have sensory issues and that includes being extremely bothered by my body hair. I can only handle the hair on my arms and head, anything else makes me squeamish. As @CoffeeNCardio said, true feminists support equality of all genders. I don't hate men; my two best friends are both men and have as many complexities and societal pressures to face as I do. As long as what you're doing makes you happy and doesn't cause any harm to yourself or others, you should be free to do it. You only have one life and shouldn't feel shamed for wanting to live it the best you can.0 -
I'm 50 now and I can tell you at 23, it was all about vanity and trying to fit into some societal ideal, despite being a feminist and otherwise a nonconformist. I wouldn't have said it then, but looking back, it was a big blind spot I had. Then at 27 I had my first child and I went back to work and my husband stayed home and it became more about keeping my sanity and making sure I had enough energy to work all day and mother all evening with that child and then another. I don't think I really started thinking about that blind spot until I thought how I might influence my daughters' impression of their bodies, though. I started leaving society's opinions on the sidelines more and more, especially as the rise of the internet really started bombarding me with unrealistic ideals I could never compete with. Now I'm 50 and I'm fighting a family history of early deaths from lifestyle issues so my motivation has changed yet again. Vanity to sanity to health.
I don't think it really matters too much what motivates you, as long as you know what it is an are comfortable with it.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »As a very outspoken advocate against body-shaming, and a born and bred feminist, I can happily say that it's MY body and I'll make it look however I dam well please. If that happens to mimic societal beauty standards, so be it. I know what I want to look like. I know how I want to feel (energetic and happy). And uterus notwithstanding, I'm perfectly capable of making that decision in spite of the fashion industry.
I also really like clothes I find pretty. I like to feel pretty. I have no issue existing in both spheres and cannot comprehend why I shouldn't.
Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to stop caring what you look like. It means you don't let other people decide that for you. Whether that be some guy saying you're ugly because you don't meet his standard of sexual desirability (cause you are more than a sexual object) or some other woman saying you need to meet standards to be socially acceptable.
I couldn't have said this better myself. I completely concur.
Also, my goals lately have been more centered around fitness. I'm not at my goal weight, but I know I'll get there; I just feel way better about myself when I achieve my fitness goals.0 -
Things I love about weight loss:
Increased energy
Legs no longer rubbing together when I walk
Periods are lighter
Suffering less when it's hot
Better times for running races
Less risk of diabetes and other diseases
Goals don't have to be about what you see in the mirror! Your weight loss is about what feels good for you!0
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