March 2016 Running Challenge
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Hi People,
I got a doubt. today the organizers of the next 5K which I registered sent an email telling, do 1 speed run, 1 Tempo run and one long run so that you don't end up injured during the race.
I generally do is just run at normal pace, walk when tired and regain running and put maximum towards end the running. In weekends I just try to put some extra distance. Am I doing something wrong?
What are this Tempo runs and Speed runs? More I am learning about running it's getting more complicated.
Some races send out complimentary training plans. I ignore them. Not everyone is ready for speed work. I'm waiting until fall to schedule it in. I'm sure others can expound on speed work. Just simply put- its varying your pace with faster segments.
I agree with this ^^^
Cracking up on the spider web conversation. When we run trails I make Skip go first, she thinks it's because she so fast, no way it's because she's a spider web sweeper offer. I'm not stupid. I've learned to deal with most spiders, though I'm known to cry if they run under the couch before I can stomp on them 1,000 times while screaming. The other day I walked into the garage and a black widow was just sitting there like "hey man this is my house" now those little b###es will run if you turn your head. I had no choice do to kill her barehanded...yes I cried. We have these brown fuzzy guys here that run about 100 mph, ugh!
When Skip was little we were at some thing at school and they had spiders and snakes and all that. Well she wanted to hold the tarantula and I was just standing there trying not to cry or throw up. I really didn't want her to have my insane fear. Finally the man said "honey watch it won't hurt, your mom will hold it first" Are you f'ing kidding me!!!! So he put it on my arm and that stupid thing started to walk, crawl, creep up my arm it got to my shoulder and I said the nice spider is going to be smashed if you don't take it back. My plan was to swat it off my arm and let him go look for it. All I could think of was Peter Brady laying in the bed in Hawaii with the spider on his chest. He finally took it and put it on Skip. She even let her crawl on her face...no just no. I was sick to my stomach for 3 days.
@whatmerunning the anti-vampire protection ha ha!!! OMG I'm dying
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@MNLittleFinn The main difference for me I think is that this year I started running consecutive days. Previously I would not run 2 days in a row, so with working around my schedule and weather, etc, I would often run only 2 days a week. So while I had worked up to 7 miles last April for my long run, my total mileage that month was still only 33 :-D Too many missed runs and too many 2 milers. Last Friday was only my 2nd ever 7 mile run so from here on everything past 7 miles is new distance for me. I'm excited.0
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Well, now you know to also look out for vampires too!instantmartian wrote: »
There's not much other than few birds and a squirrel or two here or there on my usual loop that goes through the local cemetery. I do, however, look for zombies during every run. The cemetery has different sections with different names (including Faithful Friends pet section). One of these parts of the cemetery is called Resurrection Garden. It is at the very back of the cemetery. The way the named bench is placed, it makes it look like that section is behind a large gate (that leads into the woods) and very tall fence. Zombies are wildlife, right?WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I guess I am loving the wildlife discussion today!instantmartian wrote: »The most interesting wildlife I encountered on a run was a porcupine who decided to meander across the trail in front of me. I knew porcupine were in the area, as I could smell them while out running, sometimes, but that was the first and only time I saw one.
That reminded me of a very recent encounter on the same paved park trails I ran this morning. I don't recall if I mentioned it here or not, but I was running back from the same 5 mile route I took this morning along the stream in the wooded part of the park and a beaver popped out from the brush onto the trail about 100 feet ahead of me. I was very surprised to see a beaver there as this park is surrounded by residential on all sides. Just a couple miles away are prime beaver areas though, so this one meandered in close to civilization I guess.
Anyway, as I kept running (towards it) it got scared and started running away from me right down the trail the same way I was going. It would stop every 12-15 feet or so to look back and see if I was still coming right at him, and then he kept going right down the trail. I was laughing about it because the brush and stream were right there next to him on the side to dart into. But no, we chased each other until the trail veered away from the stream at which point he finally decided to head back to the stream.
I got to tell my wife I was chasing beaver. She was pleased.
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That's me, my easy pace is like from 11:30 to 13:00 min/mile, which severely limits the mileage i can put on in a certain time frame....Though I have been running my 4 milers at 10:35, so I guess there is some wiggle room there for me.Disclaimer: When we start talking about people who run 11 or 12 minutes to the mile, the time on the road is enough greater than what I have for the same distance that I'm not sure how much of my experience is relevant.
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »
Oh, one more thing that I forgot...MNLittleFinn wrote: »WhatMeRunning wrote: »
Are you following a training plan, or any sort of loose guidelines on how you set up your runs from week to week?MNLittleFinn wrote: »With this month drawing to an end, with just one more scheduled run, and having realized that I set a goal that ended up being too low, I'm looking to set my goal for next month. Anyone have a suggestion on how to figure a good mileage goal? I'd almost rather fall short of an ambitious goal that have too easy a goal and meet it early on.
Training plan, not yet. Runs have been 3,3,3 for Sun/Tue/Th and 5,6 or 7 on Sat, just taking it kind of easy. Over the last 2 weeks, I jumped up to 4 miles on my not-long-run days, because the 3 milers were getting almost too easy, and 4 feels right. With an 8k in mid July, and a half marathon in September, I won't be "starting" on training for at least another month, since the longest (beginner) HM plan I've seen was 16weeks and that would be beginning of June. I'm doing base building, but my base is already more miles than the first week or 2 of the plans.
Sorry for the wordy answer.
Your non-long runs should not exceed much more than about an hour max. So if you wind up building to a point where you are running 5 or 6 miles on those days but it is taking 70+ minutes to do so you need to rethink your strategy. I would suggest at that point adding in an extra non-long run day and bumping those long run mileage days down to compensate for the added stress of adding in that extra day. The total mileage may stay the same.
So let's say 5 miles takes you one hour (no clue if that is the case) and you are at a point where you are considering going to 6 miles on your non-long run days. Instead of going to 6 miles 3x/week, do 4.5 miles 4x/week which is still the same 18 miles you would get with three 6 milers, but each run would be under that hour or so limit. The reasoning for that is for the effects of those easy non-long training runs give their benefit when under an hour basically. Long runs should be in the 90+ minute range. @Stoshew71 of @MobyCarp may have some sage advice in that regard.
I started to break my longer midweek runs into doubles. I used to do 10 miles for 3 mornings during the week on top of 2 recovery runs on the off days and the actual long run on Saturdays. That was wearing me out. So I capped those 10 milers to 8 miles and then added 4 more miles in the afternoon during lunch time. I realize that may sound really scary where most of you beginners are, but the idea is the same as @WhatMeRunning is suggesting. Breaking up the longer midweek runs into more sessions but smaller per session. Still, it may not be a bad idea to have 1 midweek kinda long run. Whatever fits into your schedule but won't wear you out.
That's interesting about the 10 mile runs. I've noticed that I don't particularly like to run more than 8 miles on work days, because it just seems to crunch the schedule too much. My runs are typically in the evening, so running longer means getting to bed later which means less opportunity for sleep. But enough sleep is like squeezing a balloon; move the run to the morning, and it means getting up earlier, which also means less opportunity for sleep.
Funny thing, the over 8 miles bothers me for an easy run in the evening, but doesn't seem to matter for a quality workout in the evening. I'm sure there's a large mental component to that, because I expect the quality workout to tire me out but I expect to recover on the easy run. When the plan assigned 15 miles at E on a Thursday, that didn't bother me at all. I just made sure I could start early. The reason for the easy run Thursday was pretty obvious; that week the plan had me running 17 miles on Saturday, with the middle 13 at MP.
As I work through this rather aggressive plan, I have to agree that not wearing yourself out is a key thing. A well designed plan will have enough easy running built in to allow recovery from the quality days; but the plan may need to be adjusted if the individual needs more recovery. I'm a bit surprised at how little I've had to adjust my current plan, currently at Week 3, counting down from 16.0 -
@MobyCarp Good point about beginner runners gravitating naturally to LT pace for most runs. I am sure experience is necessary to know what each pace should feel like. I haven't done much research on time limits for non-long run days. I just know the 2-1/2, or 3 hour (or slightly more depending on who you listen to) for long runs. And I believe I explained myself in an earlier post as to why 90 minutes is the minimum for the long run. Here are some articles that speak about 90 minute runs.
http://www.runontexas.com/news/benefits-long-run
http://www.marathonguide.com/training/articles/MandBFuelOnFat.cfm
http://www.active.com/running/articles/the-medium-long-run-a-triathlete-s-secret-weapon
http://runfargirl.com/2014/07/23/the-art-of-the-long-run/
https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2
My reason for personally limiting time and my decision to break up my runs had more to do on feel and schedule (not science or research). I was just feeling like after a while, running a 10 miler too many times in the week was just wearing me out. The beginning of the run may have been fine but towards the end I just didn't have it in me. So I decided to cut runs shorter and just finish what I had planned for the day in the afternoon. Also, getting a 10 miler in meant getting up earlier or face doing the run feeling rushed so I can get ready for work on time. I felt the overall quality of the 2 runs was much better than trying to cram in a 10 miler. Plus I was able to break a barrier and get 12 in a single day. No way I can run a 12 miler in the morning and do it justice if I felt rushed or sleep deprived.
Then the talk of pace. So this winter I was trying to get to 65 mile weeks and feel comfortable with this. Also working on my form and making it more efficient. So I wasn't running any specific speed workouts or tempo runs like I did last fall before my last marathon. I may have ran some miles a bit into tempo range but mostly experimented with how fast can I run and still remain aerobic (and with good form). I am still learning this. But the goal was to try and keep it somewhat in the "conversational pace". Sometimes looking at my watch and it said 7:45, look again a short while and it would say 8:30 or 9:00. So, maybe the best thing to do is ignore the whole pace by a number on my watch and just work on how you are breathing. is it comfortable? Can I talk or sing out loud in complete sentences with little effort?
But I now have a system in place to consistently run 65 miles a week (for 3 weeks then a cutback week). I hope to get to 70 a few times in a few months once my long run starts to hike up even more.
Anyway, i hope this makes sense to many of you.0 -
@Stoshew71 That's great info. I'm starting to think I need to both slow down and/or lengthen my long runs. With my current pace (Averaging 11:08 which is probably too fast, but doesn't feel bad) I'd need to add about a mile in distance and slow down by about 11sec/mile.
This is really cool, learning about this stuff.0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
Well, now you know to also look out for vampires too!instantmartian wrote: »
There's not much other than few birds and a squirrel or two here or there on my usual loop that goes through the local cemetery. I do, however, look for zombies during every run. The cemetery has different sections with different names (including Faithful Friends pet section). One of these parts of the cemetery is called Resurrection Garden. It is at the very back of the cemetery. The way the named bench is placed, it makes it look like that section is behind a large gate (that leads into the woods) and very tall fence. Zombies are wildlife, right?WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I guess I am loving the wildlife discussion today!instantmartian wrote: »The most interesting wildlife I encountered on a run was a porcupine who decided to meander across the trail in front of me. I knew porcupine were in the area, as I could smell them while out running, sometimes, but that was the first and only time I saw one.
That reminded me of a very recent encounter on the same paved park trails I ran this morning. I don't recall if I mentioned it here or not, but I was running back from the same 5 mile route I took this morning along the stream in the wooded part of the park and a beaver popped out from the brush onto the trail about 100 feet ahead of me. I was very surprised to see a beaver there as this park is surrounded by residential on all sides. Just a couple miles away are prime beaver areas though, so this one meandered in close to civilization I guess.
Anyway, as I kept running (towards it) it got scared and started running away from me right down the trail the same way I was going. It would stop every 12-15 feet or so to look back and see if I was still coming right at him, and then he kept going right down the trail. I was laughing about it because the brush and stream were right there next to him on the side to dart into. But no, we chased each other until the trail veered away from the stream at which point he finally decided to head back to the stream.
I got to tell my wife I was chasing beaver. She was pleased.
haha I do! Who would have thought? I've learned so much from this group!
In all seriousness, though, I'm glad I found this little challenge message board. I have learned a ton about running, and even a little about myself, just in the past few months. I would imagine at least some of this are things I would have picked up if I would be able to join a group or something, but middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania doesn't really allow for luxuries such as running groups.0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 That's great info. I'm starting to think I need to both slow down and/or lengthen my long runs. With my current pace (Averaging 11:08 which is probably too fast, but doesn't feel bad) I'd need to add about a mile in distance and slow down by about 11sec/mile.
This is really cool, learning about this stuff.
In reading all of this, I was thinking this exact same thing, pretty much word-for-word.0 -
I think you ought to focus on stretching your long runs too in order to get them to a better overall length of time. But it may be wise to keep in mind the whole 25%-33% rule for long run mileage compared to weekly mileage. Right now with three 4 milers and a 6 mile long run you are right there in that math perfectly (4+4+4+6=18 and 6 is 33% of that 18). So don't just add to only your long runs because that will make your long runs go over that limit.MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 That's great info. I'm starting to think I need to both slow down and/or lengthen my long runs. With my current pace (Averaging 11:08 which is probably too fast, but doesn't feel bad) I'd need to add about a mile in distance and slow down by about 11sec/mile.
This is really cool, learning about this stuff.
Granted, last month we were all debating that and I was one of the ones saying I was not sure it needed to be as firm as that...but it is a good guideline nonetheless and trying to make one run per week a lot longer while not having yet established a good base makes zero sense for any distance runner. The first thing a distance runner should do which virtually everyone agrees on is base-building to build up your average weekly miles, but most importantly to build up your aerobic conditioning. Slow, easy miles is the key to that, building more and more miles as the weeks go by.
Also remember to take occasional "down weeks", they are as important as rest days. I currently like to do cycles of 3 up weeks and 1 down week. Some do other cycles. Last year I did 2 up and 1 down but I don't want to use last year as any example, what I did was unusual and while I was successful it IS a bit of a wonder why I am not injured.
So, you are on your 2nd up week at 4, 4, 4, 6ish which is a great split of mileage per the guru advice out there. Just keep building that up. After your "down week" to recuperate from all that training start going up on each run so that you can allow your long run to grow. Maybe add a day, or two-a-days mixed in, whatever. Here are some various ideas for the next step from your present 18-19 miles/week:
Maintaining 4 runs/week: 5, 5, 5, 7.5 (22.5/week)
Going to 5 runs/week: 4, 4, 4, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two-a-days: 2+2, 4, 2+2, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two long runs/week: 4, 8, 4, 8 (24/week)
Whatever you do, you might want to cap it at about 24/week consideirng your current 18-19/week. In fact, that might even be a bit aggressive so do what feels right for YOU.
How much to bump up from cycle to cycle as you progress is a good question. I am currently going by the Jack Daniels advice @Stoshew71 discussed some time back where you add 1 mile for each day you run per week. Since you run 4 days, you should be able to safely add about 4 miles each cycle. If you are increasing mileage every week people advise that 10% increase rule, but don't trust that so much. If you add that up each week you will be running marathons in no time, which may not be realistic. You need down weeks and you can't keep adding higher mileage week over week, you will burn out or get injured. I have had the best success maintaining a higher level of mileage for 2-3 weeks, and am honest with myself about how I feel. Last year when I would do a 2 week higher mileage period, if I was really beat down I would not increase my mileage as much as planned the next cycle, if at all. Doing this 3 week up one week down cycle which I am on now feels right for me currently. For you it might be different, but be honest with all discomforts or fatigue, even minor. Injury sucks so bad and it can sneak up on you.
I may be rambling or even confusing things. But there is little reason to fear going with a good base building period for a few months. You can do it however things fit ideally in your life schedule, I did base building last year by doing ALL slow and easy miles, going to 2 long runs per week, then 3 per week, and even my short runs wound up being pretty long by the end of it (about 2 hours each).
As for limiting runs to an hour, I suspect it is simply as @MobyCarp somewhat alluded to, that workout runs should be less than an hour. But in base building the ONLY workout runs are long runs which you want to push up to about 2.5 hours for your longest one of the week. If you have a mid-week long run, have it be a minimum of 1.5 hours so it acts on your body like a long run, longer if you have the time and ability. I'm not sure any more than 3 long runs would be wise for most anyone, but that is just my gut instinct.0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I think you ought to focus on stretching your long runs too in order to get them to a better overall length of time. But it may be wise to keep in mind the whole 25%-33% rule for long run mileage compared to weekly mileage. Right now with three 4 milers and a 6 mile long run you are right there in that math perfectly (4+4+4+6=18 and 6 is 33% of that 18). So don't just add to only your long runs because that will make your long runs go over that limit.MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 That's great info. I'm starting to think I need to both slow down and/or lengthen my long runs. With my current pace (Averaging 11:08 which is probably too fast, but doesn't feel bad) I'd need to add about a mile in distance and slow down by about 11sec/mile.
This is really cool, learning about this stuff.
Granted, last month we were all debating that and I was one of the ones saying I was not sure it needed to be as firm as that...but it is a good guideline nonetheless and trying to make one run per week a lot longer while not having yet established a good base makes zero sense for any distance runner. The first thing a distance runner should do which virtually everyone agrees on is base-building to build up your average weekly miles, but most importantly to build up your aerobic conditioning. Slow, easy miles is the key to that, building more and more miles as the weeks go by.
Also remember to take occasional "down weeks", they are as important as rest days. I currently like to do cycles of 3 up weeks and 1 down week. Some do other cycles. Last year I did 2 up and 1 down but I don't want to use last year as any example, what I did was unusual and while I was successful it IS a bit of a wonder why I am not injured.
So, you are on your 2nd up week at 4, 4, 4, 6ish which is a great split of mileage per the guru advice out there. Just keep building that up. After your "down week" to recuperate from all that training start going up on each run so that you can allow your long run to grow. Maybe add a day, or two-a-days mixed in, whatever. Here are some various ideas for the next step from your present 18-19 miles/week:
Maintaining 4 runs/week: 5, 5, 5, 7.5 (22.5/week)
Going to 5 runs/week: 4, 4, 4, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two-a-days: 2+2, 4, 2+2, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two long runs/week: 4, 8, 4, 8 (24/week)
Whatever you do, you might want to cap it at about 24/week consideirng your current 18-19/week. In fact, that might even be a bit aggressive so do what feels right for YOU.
How much to bump up from cycle to cycle as you progress is a good question. I am currently going by the Jack Daniels advice @Stoshew71 discussed some time back where you add 1 mile for each day you run per week. Since you run 4 days, you should be able to safely add about 4 miles each cycle. If you are increasing mileage every week people advise that 10% increase rule, but don't trust that so much. If you add that up each week you will be running marathons in no time, which may not be realistic. You need down weeks and you can't keep adding higher mileage week over week, you will burn out or get injured. I have had the best success maintaining a higher level of mileage for 2-3 weeks, and am honest with myself about how I feel. Last year when I would do a 2 week higher mileage period, if I was really beat down I would not increase my mileage as much as planned the next cycle, if at all. Doing this 3 week up one week down cycle which I am on now feels right for me currently. For you it might be different, but be honest with all discomforts or fatigue, even minor. Injury sucks so bad and it can sneak up on you.
I may be rambling or even confusing things. But there is little reason to fear going by that sort of methodology. You can do it different, I did base building last year by doing ALL slow and easy miles, going to 2 long runs per week, then 3 per week, and even my short runs wound up being pretty long by the end of it (about 2 hours each).
As for limiting runs to an hour, I suspect it is simply as @MobyCarp somewhat alluded to, that workout runs should be less than an hour. But in base building the ONLY workout runs are long runs which you want to push up to about 2.5 hours for your longest one of the week. If you have a mid-week long run, have it be a minimum of 1.5 hours so it acts on your body like a long run, longer if you have the time and ability.
You forgot the part where Jack says and hold it for 4 weeks. In Jack Daniels plan for increasing mileage, you don't increase that much every week. You do a slight jump and hold it for 4 weeks.
I like everything else you mentioned here.0 -
Thanks for clarifying, that is what I was trying to say but confused things by adding "per week" in there. That should be " add 1 mile for each day you run to your total weekly mileage per cycle".WhatMeRunning wrote: »
I think you ought to focus on stretching your long runs too in order to get them to a better overall length of time. But it may be wise to keep in mind the whole 25%-33% rule for long run mileage compared to weekly mileage. Right now with three 4 milers and a 6 mile long run you are right there in that math perfectly (4+4+4+6=18 and 6 is 33% of that 18). So don't just add to only your long runs because that will make your long runs go over that limit.MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 That's great info. I'm starting to think I need to both slow down and/or lengthen my long runs. With my current pace (Averaging 11:08 which is probably too fast, but doesn't feel bad) I'd need to add about a mile in distance and slow down by about 11sec/mile.
This is really cool, learning about this stuff.
Granted, last month we were all debating that and I was one of the ones saying I was not sure it needed to be as firm as that...but it is a good guideline nonetheless and trying to make one run per week a lot longer while not having yet established a good base makes zero sense for any distance runner. The first thing a distance runner should do which virtually everyone agrees on is base-building to build up your average weekly miles, but most importantly to build up your aerobic conditioning. Slow, easy miles is the key to that, building more and more miles as the weeks go by.
Also remember to take occasional "down weeks", they are as important as rest days. I currently like to do cycles of 3 up weeks and 1 down week. Some do other cycles. Last year I did 2 up and 1 down but I don't want to use last year as any example, what I did was unusual and while I was successful it IS a bit of a wonder why I am not injured.
So, you are on your 2nd up week at 4, 4, 4, 6ish which is a great split of mileage per the guru advice out there. Just keep building that up. After your "down week" to recuperate from all that training start going up on each run so that you can allow your long run to grow. Maybe add a day, or two-a-days mixed in, whatever. Here are some various ideas for the next step from your present 18-19 miles/week:
Maintaining 4 runs/week: 5, 5, 5, 7.5 (22.5/week)
Going to 5 runs/week: 4, 4, 4, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two-a-days: 2+2, 4, 2+2, 4, 8 (24/week)
Two long runs/week: 4, 8, 4, 8 (24/week)
Whatever you do, you might want to cap it at about 24/week consideirng your current 18-19/week. In fact, that might even be a bit aggressive so do what feels right for YOU.
How much to bump up from cycle to cycle as you progress is a good question. I am currently going by the Jack Daniels advice @Stoshew71 discussed some time back where you add 1 mile for each day you run per week. Since you run 4 days, you should be able to safely add about 4 miles each cycle. If you are increasing mileage every week people advise that 10% increase rule, but don't trust that so much. If you add that up each week you will be running marathons in no time, which may not be realistic. You need down weeks and you can't keep adding higher mileage week over week, you will burn out or get injured. I have had the best success maintaining a higher level of mileage for 2-3 weeks, and am honest with myself about how I feel. Last year when I would do a 2 week higher mileage period, if I was really beat down I would not increase my mileage as much as planned the next cycle, if at all. Doing this 3 week up one week down cycle which I am on now feels right for me currently. For you it might be different, but be honest with all discomforts or fatigue, even minor. Injury sucks so bad and it can sneak up on you.
I may be rambling or even confusing things. But there is little reason to fear going by that sort of methodology. You can do it different, I did base building last year by doing ALL slow and easy miles, going to 2 long runs per week, then 3 per week, and even my short runs wound up being pretty long by the end of it (about 2 hours each).
As for limiting runs to an hour, I suspect it is simply as @MobyCarp somewhat alluded to, that workout runs should be less than an hour. But in base building the ONLY workout runs are long runs which you want to push up to about 2.5 hours for your longest one of the week. If you have a mid-week long run, have it be a minimum of 1.5 hours so it acts on your body like a long run, longer if you have the time and ability.
You forgot the part where Jack says and hold it for 4 weeks. In Jack Daniels plan for increasing mileage, you don't increase that much every week. You do a slight jump and hold it for 4 weeks.
I like everything else you mentioned here.0 -
Thanks for the advice guys...now to throw a wrench into it, because I really jive with the rule of no more than 30% weekly distance for a long run. I was looking at the hal Higdon half marathon Novice 1 and 2 plans, and at the end, the long runs are 40-50% of the weekly total. Is this because it's specifically leading up to a race? I was always kind of curious as to how those could break that rule.0
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This is just my personal opinion, but I think the Hal Higdon beginner plans are just that, taking a beginner to a specific race but with no plans of that runner continuing to run after that race. It completely skips the base building phase which is what establishes someones ability to do distance running long-term.0
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »This is just my personal opinion, but I think the Hal Higdon beginner plans are just that, taking a beginner to a specific race but with no plans of that runner continuing to run after that race. It completely skips the base building phase which is what establishes someones ability to do distance running long-term.
Thanks. I was wondering if that might be it. It's making it difficult to find a training plan, because I don't see myself as intermediate, but I put more miles on than a "real beginner." Good thing I have a while to figure it out.0 -
skippygirlsmom wrote: »Cracking up on the spider web conversation. When we run trails I make Skip go first, she thinks it's because she so fast, no way it's because she's a spider web sweeper offer. I'm not stupid. I've learned to deal with most spiders, though I'm known to cry if they run under the couch before I can stomp on them 1,000 times while screaming. The other day I walked into the garage and a black widow was just sitting there like "hey man this is my house" now those little b###es will run if you turn your head. I had no choice do to kill her barehanded...yes I cried. We have these brown fuzzy guys here that run about 100 mph, ugh!
When Skip was little we were at some thing at school and they had spiders and snakes and all that. Well she wanted to hold the tarantula and I was just standing there trying not to cry or throw up. I really didn't want her to have my insane fear. Finally the man said "honey watch it won't hurt, your mom will hold it first" Are you f'ing kidding me!!!! So he put it on my arm and that stupid thing started to walk, crawl, creep up my arm it got to my shoulder and I said the nice spider is going to be smashed if you don't take it back. My plan was to swat it off my arm and let him go look for it. All I could think of was Peter Brady laying in the bed in Hawaii with the spider on his chest. He finally took it and put it on Skip. She even let her crawl on her face...no just no. I was sick to my stomach for 3 days.
Hahahaha - yes, yes, yes - this is me exactly and my daughter wanted to hold and have everything as a pet! I was willing to have pet lizards, geckos and chameleons along with many mammals but no snakes and no tarantulas!
I don't mind snakes but don't need a pet one.0 -
I ran my first half on the Hal Higdon beginner program. I could not stick to it so well, the workout runs (intervals and tempo runs) really took a toll on me and I could rarely finish them. But I did the best I could to achieve the weekly mileage. I made it to that first half and while I struggled, I did finish it. I wound up with a mild case of cuboid syndrome in my right foot a couple weeks later when I tried to start running again. I also developed a good ITB pain DURING the half, but in the recovery afterwards that pain diminished.
Once I was better, I tried to work myself back up to the weekly mileage I had been at per the same plan roughly, but started running into that ITB pain whenever I tried to run more than 10 miles on a long run. That is not the fault of that program, I had to learn the proper strength exercises to do as cross training to help. But I think it shows where things can go wrong if you try to make it a long term plan instead of a strategic single race plan.
Once I stopped running a second time to work on strength to deal with that ITB pain, (building core and glute strength specifically) I did not try following such a program again. Instead I switched to the Maffetone method basically, running slow and easy every time within my MAF (maximum aerobic function). The idea was to build up my weekly mileage and aerobic capacity as much as possible.
Based on putting that plan in a calendar, it looked like I could possibly build up a good enough base to run a full later that year in the fall. It required base building the entire way. That's what I did. I became so comfortable running really long distances at a slow and easy pace that I also signed up for 2 more full marathons in that same fall doing 3 full marathons within 29 days, 2 of them on back to back weekends. I don't suggest people do this, but I did, and made it injury free. I was also able to go without running for 2-3 weeks to recover after all this and was able to recover my mileage a lot easier this next time around than that first time after doing that first half marathon.
From my experience, the most effective distance training I have done so far was that base building. After that base was established and I ran those fulls I spent some time doing speedwork, tempo runs, intervals, etc to work on increasing my pace. It helped after doing nothing but "low and slow" for so long. But I am back in a base building phase right now to get my mileage up for all of my planned races, so I can feel very confident I can do a half every weekend this spring, and 2 halfs each weekend in the fall.
Check out "periodization training". That is what I am trying to do this year. There are many ways to train, I believe in that one currently. 0 -
Good day today. 0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »I ran my first half on the Hal Higdon beginner program. I could not stick to it so well, the workout runs (intervals and tempo runs) really took a toll on me and I could rarely finish them. But I did the best I could to achieve the weekly mileage. I made it to that first half and while I struggled, I did finish it. I wound up with a mild case of cuboid syndrome in my right foot a couple weeks later when I tried to start running again. I also developed a good ITB pain DURING the half, but in the recovery afterwards that pain diminished.
Once I was better, I tried to work myself back up to the weekly mileage I had been at per the same plan roughly, but started running into that ITB pain whenever I tried to run more than 10 miles on a long run. That is not the fault of that program, I had to learn the proper strength exercises to do as cross training to help. But I think it shows where things can go wrong if you try to make it a long term plan instead of a strategic single race plan.
Once I stopped running a second time to work on strength to deal with that ITB pain, (building core and glute strength specifically) I did not try following such a program again. Instead I switched to the Maffetone method basically, running slow and easy every time within my MAF (maximum aerobic function). The idea was to build up my weekly mileage and aerobic capacity as much as possible.
Based on putting that plan in a calendar, it looked like I could possibly build up a good enough base to run a full later that year in the fall. It required base building the entire way. That's what I did. I became so comfortable running really long distances at a slow and easy pace that I also signed up for 2 more full marathons in that same fall doing 3 full marathons within 29 days, 2 of them on back to back weekends. I don't suggest people do this, but I did, and made it injury free. I was also able to go without running for 2-3 weeks to recover after all this and was able to recover my mileage a lot easier this next time around than that first time after doing that first half marathon.
From my experience, the most effective distance training I have done so far was that base building. After that base was established and I ran those fulls I spent some time doing speedwork, tempo runs, intervals, etc to work on increasing my pace. It helped after doing nothing but "low and slow" for so long. But I am back in a base building phase right now to get my mileage up for all of my planned races, so I can feel very confident I can do a half every weekend this spring, and 2 halfs each weekend in the fall.
Check out "periodization training". That is what I am trying to do this year. There are many ways to train, I believe in that one currently.
This is pretty much what I did as well. Before my 1st HM I did not know the 'rules' for building or increasing distance or that there were plans available. I just ran and on the weekends ran longer. I finished the HM just fine and went back to running as I had but also had injuries (shin splints and a torn plantar fascia). When I came back after recovering, listening to my ortho doc and learning from others here, I also started base building, increasing distances slowly and essentially following the Maffetone method. I have only really used a race training plan once and that was for the SF HM and by that time I was able to follow the intermediate plan. I can't say if it helped because I ended up running that race with my daughter and pacing her. It was her first and we took it very slow.
I am planning to use Maffetone when I start back again and follow a race plan before SF again this year.0 -
Periodization training is a staple in almost every sport but it applies to noobs and elite as well. You can't be in the best shape for a race (or a lifting competition etc) all year around and not get injured at some point, cause that level of fitness isn't safe. It's relative for your level of course but the whole idea is simple. Build a base (this applies to everyone, even if you are elite), then peak before competition (when you are at your best), then taper (reduce volume to allow body to fully recover) then race (lift etc) at your max. It's also the reason we take slower weeks every once in a while or risk breaking down and accumulating too much fatigue0
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I think running gets more complicated the more I think about it. It's hard changing my philosophy from just ru to something more structured. I'm already at 4 days a week, but with how I'm feeling, I have a suspicion I'll be wanting to go to 5 (or 1-2 two-a-days) when school's out for summer.0
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Just an easy run today. I rolled my ankle at a gig on Saturday and it hurt when running on Sunday, so today was a test. It felt much better today, so hopefully an easier week and it won't bother me at all for my half marathon on Sunday.
1st March - 3.03 miles
3rd March - 4.03 miles
6th March - 9.13 miles
8th March - 3.30 miles
12th March - 10.28 miles
17th March - 3.77 miles
19th March - 6.22 10km race PR!
21st March - 3.06 miles
25th March - 4.06 miles
26th March - 4.15 miles
27th March - 6.02 miles
29th March - 3.05 miles
MTD - 60.1/65 miles
Upcoming races:
3rd Apr - Paddock Wood Half Marathon
8th May - Run Hackney Half Marathon
2nd Oct - Tonbridge Half Marathon
30th Oct - River Thames Half Marathon0 -
I'm not training for a race, have never ran a race, and don't intend to ever run a race. So it's a little hard for me to figure out what I'm doing and why. I honestly just started running because it was the next thing after walking so much to lose weight and doing other indoor aerobics. I still just run as part of a well-rounded active lifestyle. I had originally thought that I'd probably max out at 6 miles/1 hour long runs this spring but since I've slowed down and quit killing myself with running so fast, I can now kinda think of 5 miles as not a big deal, which leaves me wondering how far to take the long run? Do I even NEED a long run if I'm not training for anything? I kinda think I want to run 10 miles but not for any reason. I just like being challenged. Just rambling here.....0
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@greenolivetree Short answer: No
If you just run to run just run. Don't run too hard everytime and listen to your body. That's it.0 -
Truth be told, it is only as complicated as you allow it to be when comparing so many training options and various advice from various sources. The trick is to figure out what your goals are (even if it is just run to lose weight) and find the method/plan you think will best match up to your goals, and get some second and third opinions perhaps just to see if other feedback helps persuade or dissuade you from your plan. It would probably not make sense for @greenolivetree to do a bunch of base building to run crazy miles each week if that is not the goal. And the amount required to be qualified as "crazy miles" is purely subjective. Likewise, many people, myself included, have run their first half marathon with something like the Hal Higdon program. I guess I was only rambling (I posted too much looking back) because in hindsight I would have rather done things differently starting out than how I did. But my goals may not match up with others so that experience may not apply.
Oddly enough, I only started running because walking was no longer a challenge and I only wanted to lose weight. I only signed up for a 10k because I was had converted my regular 6 mile walks to a combo of walking and running. It was only after running that full 10k with no walking (to my surprise) that I figured I would tackle a half. And it was only after that first half, recovering to run again the way I had before, and running slower/easier as described a few posts up that I ever considered a full. At this point, I have no idea where running is taking me, but I do have plans for this year that I hope to complete. There was a point building up to all that where the time and money invested in running helped me commit to it more than originally planned. Plus, I feel great!
Next year...who knows? Maybe try an ultra? Maybe do more of the same? Maybe give it all up and start knitting? I have no idea.0 -
crazy as it is, I'm seriously thinking about adding another day per week, just a short mileage day so I can have a little cushion for adding mileage, with my current Sun/Tu/Th/Sat schedule, I'm thinking about adding a W run and keeping it 1-2 miles shorter than the other not-long-run days0
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So today I did 16.4mi on the 25k course that I'm running next weekend. It's called Beginners Luck 25k. Was hoping the winds would have died down (60mph yesterday in LV), but NOOO. I got to the trailhead, opened my door and nearly ripped my arm off lol. Can't change the weather, so I just put on my hydration vest and started running. Felt like I was going backwards the headwind was so strong. I was leaning so far forward just to make forward progress haha. The temps were fantastic though, 44F at the start, hands were feeling numb by mile 4. Ate 2 cliff bars and had a bottle of gatorade and water. Was plenty for today. Place is usually busy, but I only saw 2 other runners the whole time. All in all good trail running stimulus. Wish it wasn't forecast to be 88f for the race though. I could blow up and run slower lol. Oh well. Now going to kill a whole pizza like it's a bagel bite
https://www.strava.com/activities/530014115
3/1 15 easy
3/3 20 easy LSD
3/7 easy 2mi @ 7:45/mi
3/11 easy 5k (8:04/mi)
*3/12 easy 6.2mi mtn
3/14 5.3mi progressive @ 8:07mi
3/15 3.1 eas @ 9:07
3/18 3.6mi rest
3/19 2mi rest
3/20 5.3mi progressive @ 7:32mi
3/21 1mi rest
3/22 7.2mi tempo @ 8:20
3/25 10mi tempo @ 8:36
3/27 3.4mi
3/29 16.4mi Trail run with 1,788ft vertical (10:45/mi avg)
Total: 103.6/150mi
Upcoming races:
4/9: Beginners Luck 25k Trail
5/7: REVEL MTCharelston Marathon
6/4: Twilight and Beyond 50k0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »Thanks for the advice guys...now to throw a wrench into it, because I really jive with the rule of no more than 30% weekly distance for a long run. I was looking at the hal Higdon half marathon Novice 1 and 2 plans, and at the end, the long runs are 40-50% of the weekly total. Is this because it's specifically leading up to a race? I was always kind of curious as to how those could break that rule.
Funny you mentioned that...
http://therunningstan.blogspot.com/2016/02/my-gripes-on-training-plans.html
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I just bookmarked your blog. I think my current problem is that I may have set too "easy" a goal, I have 25 weeks to prepare for my half marathon, and I have no clue how to do prep that long, which is a gripe of mine about training plans, they are just the build up, and don't give guidance on base building and maintaining in the long run. Currently I'm trying to find a happy medium that I can do for the next 8-9 weeks so I am in good shape to begin dedicated race training, or find a way to make up a plan that gets me to race day, starting now.Funny you mentioned that...
http://therunningstan.blogspot.com/2016/02/my-gripes-on-training-plans.html
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@WhatMeRunning The knitting comment made me laugh.
I really just run because I love being active. I still enjoy a walk. Strength train 3 times a week. And add in other odd workouts here and there. I love accomplishing new distance or new speed in running just like I love finding out I can lift a heavier weight strength training. People say I'm addicted to exercise and okay, yeah, so I am. So I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing :-D0
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