Cardio isn't for "fat burning".

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Replies

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
    Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
    Who says that?
    It's a snobbery group of people who only do weight lifting and think and state that it's better

    who said that in this thread???
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    edited March 2016
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    edited March 2016
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.

    yes, you could achieve 12% body fat through just straight calorie deficit….I am not sure if one would like how they look at the same time. I think the same site - nerd fitness - has a picture of 12 percent body fat vs 12 percent ripped body fat …..

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
    Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
    Who says that?
    It's a snobbery group of people who only do weight lifting and think and state that it's better

    who said that in this thread???

    A group of fitness guru chicks that work at fitness first-hate the crap ppl spam-myths it's getting on my nerves. Totally works against people just starting out like young women who are new to all this

    so no one in this thread said that…?

    you seem to have a lot of bit up hate towards people that lift weights and/or are heavy into fitness….you might want to let it go...
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.
    The thread is saying you need to be in an energy deficit, period...
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.

    She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.
    The thread is saying you need to be in an energy deficit, period...

    Yes. That is what I meant.
    Until we got to the point where someone mentioned getting to 12% body fat by just jogging (presumably putting her in a calorie deficit) and now people are saying she couldn't have done that.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,982 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
    Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
    Weight lifting improves a muscles condition dependent on how you do it. Some do it for strength, some for maintenance and some for muscular endurance.
    As to increasing metabolic rate? EPOC is overly exaggerated by the fitness community and those who may have never studied physiology. One can raise their RMR, but it's not that significant and it doesn't have to come just from weight lifting. High intensity exercise will do it. And because weight lifting is more along those lines than cardio, many people think that it's a metabolic booster.
    It's still going to come down to CICO.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So they are just full of it..knew it. I hate exercize snobs
    Full of it...........eh. Unknowlegdeable in how physiology really works, probably. Any exercise one can do for life is good. People just like to endorse what they like to do for exercise.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.

    She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely

    I agree it's probably pretty hard and like an issue with the way it was estimated but again, assuming the jogging put her into an energy deficit, why couldn't she?
    And the first responses were that she couldn't have hit 12% without lifting or running at an elite level.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,982 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?
    Unlikely without some physical regimen. Well unless starves themselves. Understand that if one is just doing diet alone to lose weight and is trying to get to say 17% or less, the body will usually compensate by catabolizing lean muscle tissue rather than give up fat stores. So the percentage of lean mass/body fat will invariably stay the same.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.

    She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely

    I agree it's probably pretty hard and like an issue with the way it was estimated but again, assuming the jogging put her into an energy deficit, why couldn't she?
    And the first responses were that she couldn't have hit 12% without lifting or running at an elite level.

    The issue for me isn't that she couldn't lose the fat without lifting or running at an elite level but that having a high percentage of lbm usually means that you have a large amount of muscle which is not attainable on diet alone. Going down to 12% just by cardio (or diet) without muscle hypertrophy or at least retention if you have a lot of muscle before weight loss would make you very, very underweight.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    edited March 2016
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved ;)

    12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
    Key word here: ELITE
    One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?

    Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?

    I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"

    I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
    I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
    The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.

    She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely

    I agree it's probably pretty hard and like an issue with the way it was estimated but again, assuming the jogging put her into an energy deficit, why couldn't she?
    And the first responses were that she couldn't have hit 12% without lifting or running at an elite level.

    The issue for me isn't that she couldn't lose the fat without lifting or running at an elite level but that having a high percentage of lbm usually means that you have a large amount of muscle which is not attainable on diet alone. Going down to 12% just by cardio (or diet) without muscle hypertrophy or at least retention if you have a lot of muscle before weight loss would make you very, very underweight.

    That makes sense. It just didn't come across with the responses that were made.
  • schibsted750
    schibsted750 Posts: 355 Member
    edited March 2016
    http://ajpregu.phbysiology.org/content/ajpregu/297/3/R793.full.pdf

    I won't speak for the rats, but in my experience leisurely cycling, jogging, or even walking dramatically improves mood and makes "emotional" eating less likely. So no, it doesn't burn fat directly, but it does make subjective experience of dieting easier to cope with, and that improves adherence. Granted, of course, that you eat back your exercise calories, and don't make your deficit bigger.
  • SingingSingleTracker
    SingingSingleTracker Posts: 1,866 Member
    edited March 2016
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging ;)

    And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe

    I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.

    When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.

    I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...

    24901529314_bea9d54372_o.jpg

    25439327021_da54436f58_o.jpg

    24905429933_2873701303_b.jpg

    25236458200_b6fc2865e5_o.jpg

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    25505942026_4efa04147d_o.jpg

    25532101485_73ec503ef5_o.png

    25505962556_4edb329b6d_o.jpg

    If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.

    Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:

    http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world
  • Montepulciano
    Montepulciano Posts: 845 Member
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    That's like short term "competition" body fat percentage only. No wonder you won the best body contest.

    25431601281_50dc6efa75_o.jpg

    Love this, thank you.
  • robininfl
    robininfl Posts: 1,137 Member
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.

    That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    robininfl wrote: »
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.

    That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
    I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.
    I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.

  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    robininfl wrote: »
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.

    That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
    I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.
    I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.

    If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    I know since I've started walking for exercise, jogging is not in my repertoire, My calves are rock solid. I very much doubt I've grown muscle there, but just shed the fat that was covering them.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging ;)

    And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe

    I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.

    When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.

    I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...

    [snip...

    If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.

    Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:

    http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world

    Interesting...thanks for that

    I take back my ripped comment

    I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...

    Something for me to explore further
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    robininfl wrote: »
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.

    That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
    I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.
    I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.

    If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.
    Ok thanks for the explanation. For someone eating at maintenance, I would think the effects would be more like a recomp, correct?

  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,486 Member
    edited March 2016
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging ;)

    And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe

    I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.

    When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.

    I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...

    [snip...

    If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.

    Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:

    http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world

    Interesting...thanks for that

    I take back my ripped comment

    I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...

    Something for me to explore further

    Glad you said that @rabbitjb. My reaction to the first runner's picture especially was not favourable. Each to their own though.
    I think my personal preference is the slight layer of fat over muscle, rather than an elite runner's.
    As I don't run the likelihood of ever achieving that look is zilch anyway.

    Cheers, h.
  • sawi8210
    sawi8210 Posts: 4 Member
    If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    Are you still in a deficit after your wine? Then you are good
    sawi8210 wrote: »
    If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)

  • codygish
    codygish Posts: 63 Member
    sawi8210 wrote: »
    If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)

    Deficit = good.

    Wine = good.

    Wine and deficit = excellent day.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    robininfl wrote: »
    I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog

    You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.

    That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
    I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.
    I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.

    If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.
    Ok thanks for the explanation. For someone eating at maintenance, I would think the effects would be more like a recomp, correct?
    Possibly but there are a lot if factors in play. Running wouldn't add a lot of muscle and running at maintenance wouldn't cause a lot of recomp but possibly some for newer runners over time.
  • sawi8210
    sawi8210 Posts: 4 Member
    Thank you for the response! Definitely an excellent day with wine and a deficit. Lol.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    rabbitjb wrote: »
    @SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging ;)

    And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe

    I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.

    When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.

    I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...

    [snip...

    If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.

    Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:

    http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world

    Interesting...thanks for that

    I take back my ripped comment

    I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...

    Something for me to explore further

    Glad you said that @rabbitjb. My reaction to the first runner's picture especially was not favourable. Each to their own though.
    I think my personal preference is the slight layer of fat over muscle, rather than an elite runner's.
    As I don't run the likelihood of ever achieving that look is zilch anyway.

    Cheers, h.

    Where are these pictures? I didn't see any attacked to that article.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    No one has said that.