Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
Options
Replies
-
Unlikely without some physical regimen. Well unless starves themselves. Understand that if one is just doing diet alone to lose weight and is trying to get to say 17% or less, the body will usually compensate by catabolizing lean muscle tissue rather than give up fat stores. So the percentage of lean mass/body fat will invariably stay the same.3dogsrunning wrote: »
Key word here: ELITESingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?
Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »
Key word here: ELITESingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?
Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?
I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"
I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.
She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely
I agree it's probably pretty hard and like an issue with the way it was estimated but again, assuming the jogging put her into an energy deficit, why couldn't she?
And the first responses were that she couldn't have hit 12% without lifting or running at an elite level.
The issue for me isn't that she couldn't lose the fat without lifting or running at an elite level but that having a high percentage of lbm usually means that you have a large amount of muscle which is not attainable on diet alone. Going down to 12% just by cardio (or diet) without muscle hypertrophy or at least retention if you have a lot of muscle before weight loss would make you very, very underweight.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »
Key word here: ELITESingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker she got that just from jogging, no lifting involved
12% is pretty standard for female elite runners: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/ideal-body-fat-percentage-for-runners
One isn't going to get that by just doing some jogging for 30 minutes to and hour a day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So you can't hit a very low body fat level just by cutting calories?
Isn't the whole point of this thread that fat loss is based on eating fewer calories than you need?
I think to get to an elite level it is going to take strict logging, strict micro/macro adherence, strict lifting regimen, etc…key word here being "strict"
I'm not talking about the 12% look in the photo (that is one example of what someone looks like at 12%. As someone else pointed out elite runners often how similar body fat levels but do Not look the same ). I'm not talking about and elite athlete though.
I'm talking about achieving 12% body fat.
The thread is saying to lose fat you need to eat fewer calories. Period.
She claims she only did cardio and didn't watch her diet at all. Very unlikely
I agree it's probably pretty hard and like an issue with the way it was estimated but again, assuming the jogging put her into an energy deficit, why couldn't she?
And the first responses were that she couldn't have hit 12% without lifting or running at an elite level.
The issue for me isn't that she couldn't lose the fat without lifting or running at an elite level but that having a high percentage of lbm usually means that you have a large amount of muscle which is not attainable on diet alone. Going down to 12% just by cardio (or diet) without muscle hypertrophy or at least retention if you have a lot of muscle before weight loss would make you very, very underweight.
That makes sense. It just didn't come across with the responses that were made.0 -
http://ajpregu.phbysiology.org/content/ajpregu/297/3/R793.full.pdf
I won't speak for the rats, but in my experience leisurely cycling, jogging, or even walking dramatically improves mood and makes "emotional" eating less likely. So no, it doesn't burn fat directly, but it does make subjective experience of dieting easier to cope with, and that improves adherence. Granted, of course, that you eat back your exercise calories, and don't make your deficit bigger.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging
And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe
I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.
When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.
I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...
If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.
Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:
http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world0 -
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
That's like short term "competition" body fat percentage only. No wonder you won the best body contest.
Love this, thank you.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.
That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?0 -
I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.singingflutelady wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.
That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.
0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.singingflutelady wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.
That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.
If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.0 -
I know since I've started walking for exercise, jogging is not in my repertoire, My calves are rock solid. I very much doubt I've grown muscle there, but just shed the fat that was covering them.0
-
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging
And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe
I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.
When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.
I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...
[snip...
If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.
Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:
http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world
Interesting...thanks for that
I take back my ripped comment
I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further0 -
Ok thanks for the explanation. For someone eating at maintenance, I would think the effects would be more like a recomp, correct?Wheelhouse15 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.singingflutelady wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.
That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.
If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.
0 -
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging
And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe
I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.
When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.
I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...
[snip...
If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.
Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:
http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world
Interesting...thanks for that
I take back my ripped comment
I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further
Glad you said that @rabbitjb. My reaction to the first runner's picture especially was not favourable. Each to their own though.
I think my personal preference is the slight layer of fat over muscle, rather than an elite runner's.
As I don't run the likelihood of ever achieving that look is zilch anyway.
Cheers, h.0 -
If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)0
-
Are you still in a deficit after your wine? Then you are goodIf I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
0 -
If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
Deficit = good.
Wine = good.
Wine and deficit = excellent day.2 -
Possibly but there are a lot if factors in play. Running wouldn't add a lot of muscle and running at maintenance wouldn't cause a lot of recomp but possibly some for newer runners over time.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Ok thanks for the explanation. For someone eating at maintenance, I would think the effects would be more like a recomp, correct?Wheelhouse15 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I'm not sure if it's really true, but I've thought that building muscle from jogging would be mostly confined to one's growing years, since the muscles are still developing then.singingflutelady wrote: »alismommy1992 wrote: »I dnt think thats true at all i did nothing but cardio last time i lost weight and i won a best body contest my 37% bf went down to 12% and i looked toned and all i did was jog
You obviously were eating less than you burned. It isn't magical. How was you bf% measured? 12% is super low for women in elite athlete range. You didn't incorporate any strength training? Jogging doesn't cause muscle growth.
That depends on where you start...Jogging added muscle to my legs and butt, I went from slender/skinny with jazzercise to slender/fit with jogging, legs got 2" bigger and it certainly wasn't fat. Then 2" more from yoga, again it's muscle, I am noticeably stronger. Any exercise will use muscle, stress muscle, grow muscle, right? Jogging is bouncing your body up and down with the muscles in your legs and butt, why wouldn't it grow muscle?
I think for adults who are out of shape and start up jogging, the exercise is probably enough to cause some slight muscle growth. My thinking is due to the fact that in this case the exercise causes muscle tears beyond what it's used to, just like with weight lifting. But I don't think most people could go very far with it - meaning after a short period of time the muscle adapts and additional changes are more so endurance as opposed to repairing/building torn fibers.
If you go from sedentary to running you could gain some muscle but it depends on your diet. Since a lot of people do it in a deficit because they want to lose weight then they won't but they will gain higher residual muscle tone so they might think they are. For those who are in a surplus they will gain some muscle and they will also add some density to their bones. These won't be anywhere near a person who pursues lifting but running will cause the body will add some muscle, particularly Type 1 fibers, as it adapts to the new burden.
0 -
Thank you for the response! Definitely an excellent day with wine and a deficit. Lol.0
-
middlehaitch wrote: »SingingSingleTracker wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@SingingSingleTracker but elite runners strength train. Most if not all elite athletes include strength training in their programs. Also an elite runner wouldn't call it jogging
And no woman at 12% would use the word toned ...ripped maybe
I spend a lot of time around runners and cyclists. Even if they are not elite marathon winners at major events, body fat for an endurance athlete is very low. Male or female. I took alismommy1992's comment that she got down to 12% body fat via running (jogging) to heart. I've seen it many times before from runners I know.
When I ran the New York City Marathon just "for fun", with all of the training I did getting ready for it, I ended up weighing 155 pounds at 6'4" going into the race. I was downing a pint of B & J's every night, eating a couple thousand calories a day more than normal to fuel the training and could not keep the weight on with all of the running. And my time was "average". All of those miles jogging, running, training really makes one lean and mean.
I see a lot of female runners on a trail where I train. Several of them run and yes - jog - "a lot" and have the same look as these elites...
[snip...
If you think their body fat percentage is low - you ought to see professional ballerinas!!! Or Peleton male cyclists in the grand tours.
Good article on how the Kenyan runners eat and dominate in endurance running:
http://www.active.com/running/articles/eating-practices-of-the-best-endurance-athletes-in-the-world
Interesting...thanks for that
I take back my ripped comment
I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further
Glad you said that @rabbitjb. My reaction to the first runner's picture especially was not favourable. Each to their own though.
I think my personal preference is the slight layer of fat over muscle, rather than an elite runner's.
As I don't run the likelihood of ever achieving that look is zilch anyway.
Cheers, h.
Where are these pictures? I didn't see any attacked to that article.0 -
No one has said that.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 401 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 996 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions