Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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Have to agree with the opening post to a large degree, the old saying "you are what you eat" is spot on. You can get away with being a little reckless when you are young, but one too many pizza's will get you one day. I thought I started eating healthy years ago, but it is shocking how you can get caught out, even now sometimes.
I am not a vegetarian, but I do love my fruit and veg these days, and tend to use meat as a treat or enhancer to my dishes, I as good as don't eat process foods these days.
One major tip if most of you don't know it already, get a nutribullet, it is the best appliance in my kitchen by far. If I start to go a few pound off my ideal weight, and as it goes I am way over my best weight at the moment due to ill family members and my Mum recently passing away and the stress that goes with it, that bit of kit gets me back on course with ease. I am actually using it a lot now, feeling great, but the running has a long way to go yet.0 -
Cardiovascular exercise using slow twitch musclesTheNightWalker wrote: »Everyone knows you don't need to exercise at all to lose weight. Diet is the most important thing, but running for a while and generally just being more active WILL help. I'm not sure what you mean by cardio,
Literally that is true, however lower intensity means less calories burned and the calories burned from fat will also be lower than doing a moderate intensity exercise for the same duration.but if it's the heart rate zones it will mostly just increase your endurance, but lower the intensity and you will burn more fat. You'll also be able to run longer.
The more active you are, the more energy your body will need. Stay in a caloric deficit and your body will get the energy from the fat stored on your body. No need to make it harder than it is.
When it's stated that it burns a "higher" percentage of fat per calorie, it's true, however if it's a low calorie burn (say 150 for 60 minutes of walking) you aren't talking a high amount of calories burned. If the percentage is 40% that's 60 calories from that walk. Eating back 6 grams of fat in one's diet would replenish that.
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Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Honest question- Does this mean that one should do lower intensity cardio for a longer duration to help preserve LBM while losing?0 -
Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Honest question- Does this mean that one should do lower intensity cardio for a longer duration to help preserve LBM while losing?
@ninerbuff - should have tagged you initially.
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jessicarae0316 wrote: »
If one's TDEE is say 2000 and they eat 2000, they would NOT lose fat. Reduce intake by 250 calories and fat loss will happen. The body usually has to be in deficit to lose fat.jessicarae0316 wrote: »
If that same person who's TDEE is 2000, ate 2000 calories, and burned 500 calories doing cardio....would they lose fat?
why is that even a question ....? [/quote]
Because this whole thread is making it sound like cardio won't make you lose fat, but in that case if the only thing that person changed was adding cardio, they would lose fat. It's misleading. Of course you can lose weight/fat without exercising at all. [/quote]
I agree with the bolded. I lost probably 50 lbs several years ago just walking and working out at the gym. I didn't change my diet at all. Obviously all the walking and workout calories put me in a deficit, so I would say that yes, working out and/or doing cardio will make you lose weight ( as long as you don't increase food intake). Drives me nuts when I see people say you won't lose weight with exercise. I did it.0 -
Cardio is for fitness but also to expend calories which could create a deficit.0
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@n1cholee93n1cholee93 wrote: »
Well if some are a bit overweight at eating 2500 calories and then just add exercise and burn 500 calories and create just a 250 calorie deficit, they will lose weight. Where many become confused it that they think they NEED to do a cardio regimen of some sort to have it happen. So many magazines, sites, and unknowledgeable trainers tell them this.n1cholee93 wrote: »"Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym" I thought EVERYONE knew that saying??? The one thing that always bothered me about MFP is they encourage you to eat back everything you "lost".
Food = weight loss
Working out = fitness
You can lose weight eating properly, but you can't lose weight just by working out. How do people not know this by now? It's proof enough exercise DOES NOT burn fat like everyone says.
Again this isn't to say that doing cardio is a bad thing. It's a great thing. I'm just dispelling that the verbage "you need to do cardio to burn fat" or "cardio is what burns fat" as being deceptive.
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This is completely an honest question, when doing cardio, isn't it normally way over estimated how many calories one can burn? 45 minutes of a Jillian workout aerobic says i burn upwards of 300 calories. Isn't that way off? I'm meaning, in general, people don't nearly burn as much as they think. And i hear everyone on here talk about "net calories" that they eat back from training and they claim they aren't losing weight.
What does it really take to burn 500 calories?
At a weight of 140lbs running a distance of 6 miles would burn over 500 cals.
Alternatively walk 12 miles.
The far bigger problem than exercise calories is food logging inaccuracy. A small drift on a much larger number is far more significant.0 -
People these days eat straight up crap. Chips, soda, hot dogs, McDonald's, and everything else. Never a veggie or a fruit oh how about some old fashioned water and a good run around the block. Take account for the things you consume or they will consume you with obesity and disease.
I can bring my example if it can be of use: for the last 10 years i eliminated all that. My diet was based on fruits veggie nuts grains seeds plant derived food, no dairy except for a glass milk a day (my beloved cappuccino) no soda whatsoever no alcohol. No meat and fish very rarely. But i didn't loose a pound. I did not gain either but did not loose! I didn't have to loose much, 10 pounds or so but nothing. So I realized now that probably I was eating too much even though it was all healthy stuff. For example by calorie counting i realize now that my healthy smoothies were also very caloric! On the good side I can say that I don't have a flu or a cold since 8 /9 years!!! And my blood exams are always perfect. But this is only my story. For istance the first week i started the calorie counting i noticed i assumed too little protein so i add a protein shake homemade and only this ranges 350/400 calorie! But even if i didn't have to loose weight i would never eat those foods i think my last full meal at mc donalds is10 years ago! (But i had fries about 6 months ago have to be honest) few years back instead i cut down and went on strict diet and in about 6 months i lost a lot! Maybe too much but i was really eating little especially at night. But I was also miserable that period! So whatever i lost i got it back because that kind of regimen was unsustainable and unrealistic.
We'll see how it goes im on the plan only 2 weeks.
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n1cholee93 wrote: »"Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym" I thought EVERYONE knew that saying??? The one thing that always bothered me about MFP is they encourage you to eat back everything you "lost".
Food = weight loss
Working out = fitness
You can lose weight eating properly, but you can't lose weight just by working out. How do people not know this by now? It's proof enough exercise DOES NOT burn fat like everyone says.
Well, when I've had active jobs and lifestyles, such as when I was a sheeter machine operator for work and did a lot of gardening as a hobby, or a full time yoga teacher who also walked a lot for transportation, I didn't need to put any though into what I ate to maintain a healthy weight. It's when I switch to desk jobs that I have problems. It's like I unconsciously want to eat a certain amount of calories per day and if my CO doesn't naturally match up I need to put more thought into my CI and/or CO.0 -
Harleyford10 wrote: »Ok so I'm new to all of this. So what your saying is with my exercise and if I eat say 500 cal less then I'm suppose to a day I will lose weight? Honest question cause I really don't know.
@Harleyford10 from where are you getting your daily calorie allotment? If from MFP, the deficit is already built in and you do not need to exercise in order to lose weight. (There are plenty of other reasons to exercise.)
With MFP, you are supposed to eat all your calories plus those you earn from exercise (but since MFP exercise burns are widely considered to be inflated, many suggest you eat only half of them back.)0 -
Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Honest question- Does this mean that one should do lower intensity cardio for a longer duration to help preserve LBM while losing?
You won't preserve LBM in a diet, you hope to keep some of what makes it up though - muscle mass. Go to the bathroom each morning and you lose LBM. Need less blood to reach less fat, less LBM.
During normal life muscle is broken down and rebuilt.
During a diet with less raw material available, the body will decide least used is last rebuilt with limited means.
That for many extreme diets means unused muscle is not built back up. Muscle is lost.
More intense use of muscle actually tells body it's needed. Like strength training, or intervals. So it's kept.
What's better for your point is less deficit - then do whatever level of cardio you want. Eating reasonably for whatever you burn in total.
You could do long low intensity cardio with extreme deficit and still lose muscle mass. Has nothing to do with what happens to be the fuel source during the workout, but what is available from eating later.0 -
Nope. One should have a good resistance program to preserve LBM while on a calorie deficit.
Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Honest question- Does this mean that one should do lower intensity cardio for a longer duration to help preserve LBM while losing?
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The working out help to create a deficit, that's why you lost weight. Again, one could exercise all they want, but if they ate back their TDEE, weight loss won't happen.I lost probably 50 lbs several years ago just walking and working out at the gym. I didn't change my diet at all. Obviously all the walking and workout calories put me in a deficit, so I would say that yes, working out and/or doing cardio will make you lose weight ( as long as you don't increase food intake). Drives me nuts when I see people say you won't lose weight with exercise. I did it.
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Nope. One should have a good resistance program to preserve LBM while on a calorie deficit.
Broscience. While longer duration (if the intensity is low enough) will revert to a higher percentage of fat being burned over glycogen, it would take an EXTREME amount of exercise to burn of the glycogen stores in your body. Even ELITE ATHLETES don't do it. And if one really did deplete ALL of their glycogen stores, they'd likely be on the ground convulsing. Seen it live on TV on an Ironman comp on ESPN.While the OP is correct, it's a bit misleading. One should do 20+ minutes of cardio to be fat burning. Up to the 20 minute mark (approximately), you're basically burning off the sugars stored in your blood and muscle lining. the general statement is correct that if you are at a consistent calorie deficit, you will lose fat.
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Honest question- Does this mean that one should do lower intensity cardio for a longer duration to help preserve LBM while losing?
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Thanks! I lift 4x/week and normally would walk/elliptical after, but have just started running again. I'll keep at it!
I want to maintain a level of cardio endurance- the ability to run a 5k as I please.0 -
I really like this string. The information shared is invaluable. I knew in my heart that the way to lose weight is to eat less but for some reason (over the years), I had convinced myself that exercise was the key to weight loss! I am still exercising faithfully, but am looking at what types of food I eat, the portion size and the total calorie count.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »n1cholee93 wrote: »"Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym" I thought EVERYONE knew that saying??? The one thing that always bothered me about MFP is they encourage you to eat back everything you "lost".
Food = weight loss
Working out = fitness
You can lose weight eating properly, but you can't lose weight just by working out. How do people not know this by now? It's proof enough exercise DOES NOT burn fat like everyone says.
Well, when I've had active jobs and lifestyles, such as when I was a sheeter machine operator for work and did a lot of gardening as a hobby, or a full time yoga teacher who also walked a lot for transportation, I didn't need to put any though into what I ate to maintain a healthy weight. It's when I switch to desk jobs that I have problems. It's like I unconsciously want to eat a certain amount of calories per day and if my CO doesn't naturally match up I need to put more thought into my CI and/or CO.
I often eat more when I am less busy. So on weekends that I have more stuff planned I am less likely, for whatever reason, to seek out additional food as additional entertainment. It's not conscious. It's like oh I have to get going so I can get to the museum and then after that I'm doing xyz. The museum provides the stimulation. If I sit around all day doing not a lot, I look forward to lunch as being an event and want extra things. That's my experience anyways. But I agree you can also get stuck in a mental rut where you are used to eating a certain amount, certain portions.0 -
Um.
Burning excess calories (AKA "energy") reduces the amount of incoming calories, thus helping in weight loss.
It may not directly burn fat, but cardio burns calories which would turn into fat..so.0 -
quinndeborde wrote: »Um.
Burning excess calories (AKA "energy") reduces the amount of incoming calories, thus helping in weight loss.
It may not directly burn fat, but cardio burns calories which would turn into fat..so.
Calories In = How much you eat
Calories Out = How much you burn
You lose weight by making Calories In less than Calories Out. It is really that simple.
"Burning excess calories (AKA "energy")" as you say increases the Calories Out side. That's all it does. If you don't increase the Calories In, you lose weight. The problem is many people increase both sides of the equation and they don't lose anything. This is probably because exercise also makes you hungry. It could be because people who don't understand think because they exercise it is OK to have that extra milk shake at dinner time.0 -
Love this discussion learning a lot! But although i am now trying to weigh everything for calorie counting at a point what is the use to be that precise if I cant know for sure how many calories i spend by excercising? For instance i swim 3-4 times a week now but i am just guessing the calories i burn out as it all depends ....so it's never an exact match. Also map my run gives an indication i guess.0
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Um, you could also eat less than you burn, not do cardio and still burn fat.quinndeborde wrote: »Um.
Burning excess calories (AKA "energy") reduces the amount of incoming calories, thus helping in weight loss.
It may not directly burn fat, but cardio burns calories which would turn into fat..so.
Math still applies here.
Say you burn calories (AKA energy) to the tune of 500 calories, but eat 500 calories over your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure which includes the 500 calorie burn). Guess what? Those turn to fat.
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Love this discussion learning a lot! But although i am now trying to weigh everything for calorie counting at a point what is the use to be that precise if I cant know for sure how many calories i spend by excercising? For instance i swim 3-4 times a week now but i am just guessing the calories i burn out as it all depends ....so it's never an exact match. Also map my run gives an indication i guess.
Very true - one side of the equation is much easier to get a good estimate on.
Since the other side is more iffy, it means it's even more important to be as good on the food side as you can.
Then you adjust as needed for long ranges of time.
Hopefully not assuming bigger loss is better by default.
But when you think of it - what % of your daily or weekly calories is the exercise calories as currently estimated?
What if the exercise calories was 50% more - how does that change the % for the day or week?
Just go for best estimate without knocking yourself out - unless you just enjoy the numbers - which some of us do.0 -
bump0
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Cardio is for fun.2
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Personally I'd rather do without it at this time in my life. I do it to keep the cardiovascular benefits and to allow me a little more room for food, but with the exception of biking and kickboxing, I despise doing it.lithezebra wrote: »Cardio is for fun.
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Personally I'd rather do without it at this time in my life. I do it to keep the cardiovascular benefits and to allow me a little more room for food, but with the exception of biking and kickboxing, I despise doing it.lithezebra wrote: »Cardio is for fun.
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Do you need to do any other cardio if you enjoy biking and kickboxing?0 -
No, but unfortunately I can't always do both. I don't have a bag at home anymore and biking does depend on the weather. And I don't ride the bike at the gym.lithezebra wrote: »
Personally I'd rather do without it at this time in my life. I do it to keep the cardiovascular benefits and to allow me a little more room for food, but with the exception of biking and kickboxing, I despise doing it.lithezebra wrote: »Cardio is for fun.
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Do you need to do any other cardio if you enjoy biking and kickboxing?
I'll always "find" a way to do it almost daily, it's just not something I'm into, like lifting weights.
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My favorite from of cardio at the moment is jumping rope. I like learning the skills of the different steps/moves and the time flies by. I'm like you @ninerbuff, I generally do not enjoy cardio. Prefer lifting, calisthenics, gymnastic strength training etc...0
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I'd have to agree that you do not have to do cardio to lose fat/weight. However, it increases endurance, helps you burn more calories (which can help you offset a slightly higher calorie intake) and you can generally burn calories faster using aerobic or anaerobic cardio than you can say.. lifting weights, or doing squats. So should you do it, likely yes, a few times a week for at least 15 minutes. It'll help you reach your goals faster and lose fat faster. Do you HAVE to do it? Nope. If all you want is to lose fat/weight and not increase your cardiovascular endurance and strength then don't do it. If you prefer lifting that's just as good, but you're going to have to work at it a little harder most likely to burn the same amount of calories. I think a combination of lifting and cardio is the perfect way to lose weight, gain muscle, and become more fit.
I've been doing cardio mixed with body weight training and free weights for a little over a year now. I've lost almost 110 lbs, gained a ton of muscle and strength, and i've done it all on a calorie deficit. Granted, I may eat 2200-2500 calories a day, but my TDEE with my exercise is probably around 3000 calories a day or more. Just my humble opinion, YMMV. I don't think there's any reason to say cardio is not bad or a myth, it does work, but there are alternatives. Simply dieting without exercise at all will make you skinny fat which doesn't look good most of the time.
Having said that, I'm now finding it very difficult to gain more muscle on a deficit because my fat stores are getting smaller. Granted, less body fat is what I want, but eventually when I hit the weight and body fat I want (I am close) I will have no choice but to add calories in the form of complex carbs and protein slowly to start gaining muscle again. If you read most bodybuilding sites, they'll tell you that you can't gain muscle on a deficit, that it takes a calorie surplus. That's true, but keep in mind, when you have lots of fat and extra weight that surplus comes from fat stores even though you are on a deficit, and that's what you want. Cardio, in my opinion again, helps you burn those stores faster and more efficiently. But just because it works for me doesn't mean it will work that way for you. Everyone is different, and there are many options, but as the original poster said, it takes a calorie deficit first and foremost to lose fat.
So after around 14 months, my Resting Heart Rate is between 42-45bpm, and my body fat % is less than 15%, and I'm within 5 lbs of my final goal weight. Would I do it any different if I was starting over today? I might take it a little slower, but otherwise no. I'd still mix cardio with strength training.0
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