Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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If you want to be completely literal about it, there is a study that was done where a subject did single leg extensions continually for 120 minutes and did burn I believe it was .007 fluid ounces of fat from that area. You could always tell them that if you'd like.zachbonner_ wrote: »
That's creating a calorie deficit then. Again, do all the cardio you want and eat to maintenance or above. How much excess fat is burned off by cardio then? The answer is none. That's why cardio isn't for fat burning. People who do cardio for weight loss STILL have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but the deficit is DEPENDENT on the intake. That's why is usually stated as EAT LESS THAN YOU BURN.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
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you are essentially saying that nothing you do can be fat burning then. And yes, we understand that the fat isn't actually going away during the cardio.
The whole point of the thread is to educate people in the community. And no I've NOT said there's no fat burned at all. I've stated that the amount of fat burned doing cardio is INSIGNIFICANT. Just like the study done on knee extensions for 120 minutes.
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Lol, that's STILL a calorie deficit. That doesn't mean that it's that cardio that burned the fat.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
That's creating a calorie deficit then. Again, do all the cardio you want and eat to maintenance or above. How much excess fat is burned off by cardio then? The answer is none. That's why cardio isn't for fat burning. People who do cardio for weight loss STILL have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but the deficit is DEPENDENT on the intake. That's why is usually stated as EAT LESS THAN YOU BURN.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
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But if you increase the burn 250 calories, you can hold CI steady (eat what you had been) and still lose half a pound a week.
The deficit is dependent on the *relationship* between CI and CO.
If someone ate 250 calories less than then their TDEE (which would include doing cardio or not) they would lose. And regardless if they did cardio or not, fat burn would be the same if lean mass was consistent.
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That's why there are lots of still fat people doing cardio everyday in gyms for a year or longer with no change. Okay. Again thanks for playing.zachbonner_ wrote: »
Except that there are lots and lots of people that believe that if they do cardio, they are burning fat that's significant and it's just not true. In my OP I stated that cardio burns calorie and glycogen first and foremost. To even TOUCH fat, moderated cardio sustained at about 20 minutes or more will burn a higher percentage of fat, but even then it's still not that significant.zachbonner_ wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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you made the logical step in your original post
exercise --> create calorie deficit --> lose fat
you can't just come at me after I've proven why your statement is wrong and say "so don't create a calorie deficit and how much fat have your burned during exercise" because that isn't the argument that any logical person would make. Obviously if you have a rudimentary understanding of weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit to do lose weight.
Not to mention a lot of people don't think they can lose weight without any form of exercise accompanying a reduced intake.
So no you didn't prove my statement wrong. You just elaborated what I've already established in my OP.
Thanks for playing though.
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"Obviously if you have a rudimentary understanding of weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit to do lose weight."
Cardio helps someone who is trying to lose weight to lose weight, end of story.
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Exercise is for fitness and health. Any smart trainer will tell them that. If any trainer told them doing ab crunches would burn ab fat (or any fat for that matter), butt exercise for butt fat, triceps extensions for arm fat, cardio to burn overall fat, etc. then they would be misleading them. I don't see that as "discouraging". But hey to each his own. When you're a trainer, you can tell them whatever you want. I got my stuff together and do just fine with correct information.zachbonner_ wrote: »
No the title is right. Ask any regular gym person on a cardio machine on why they are doing it and I'll bet that 90% will say they are doing it to burn fat and lose weight.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.
Argue it anyway you want, but within the community who are actually trying to LEARN how to lose weight correctly, giving them information that dispels what the fitness and diet industry has been teaching is a good thing.
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Just because the average person on a treadmill doesn't understand the actual science doesn't confirm your statement. That's called appealing to the masses and it is a logical fallacy.
Telling someone they won't "burn fat" (essentially a non scientific blanket term meaning lose weight) by working out is not going to help them but rather discourage them.
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3 -
Nope. All explained in the OP. Got you to look though.zachbonner_ wrote: »
If you want to be completely literal about it, there is a study that was done where a subject did single leg extensions continually for 120 minutes and did burn I believe it was .007 fluid ounces of fat from that area. You could always tell them that if you'd like.zachbonner_ wrote: »
That's creating a calorie deficit then. Again, do all the cardio you want and eat to maintenance or above. How much excess fat is burned off by cardio then? The answer is none. That's why cardio isn't for fat burning. People who do cardio for weight loss STILL have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but the deficit is DEPENDENT on the intake. That's why is usually stated as EAT LESS THAN YOU BURN.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
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you are essentially saying that nothing you do can be fat burning then. And yes, we understand that the fat isn't actually going away during the cardio.
The whole point of the thread is to educate people in the community. And no I've NOT said there's no fat burned at all. I've stated that the amount of fat burned doing cardio is INSIGNIFICANT. Just like the study done on knee extensions for 120 minutes.
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I guess your clickbait title is literally wrong as well then.
Thanks for coming by.
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2 -
That's NOT what you've been implying? I mean what fat are we talking about? Fat that's consumed? Of course you're talking about fat from the body. Where else would it come from? If you're saying cardio burns calories to create a deficit, I've already established that in my OP. Do you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Tell you what, say whatever you want from here on in. I promise I'll let you have the last word if that's what you really want.zachbonner_ wrote: »
That's why there are lots of still fat people doing cardio everyday in gyms for a year or longer with no change. Okay. Again thanks for playing.zachbonner_ wrote: »
Except that there are lots and lots of people that believe that if they do cardio, they are burning fat that's significant and it's just not true. In my OP I stated that cardio burns calorie and glycogen first and foremost. To even TOUCH fat, moderated cardio sustained at about 20 minutes or more will burn a higher percentage of fat, but even then it's still not that significant.zachbonner_ wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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you made the logical step in your original post
exercise --> create calorie deficit --> lose fat
you can't just come at me after I've proven why your statement is wrong and say "so don't create a calorie deficit and how much fat have your burned during exercise" because that isn't the argument that any logical person would make. Obviously if you have a rudimentary understanding of weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit to do lose weight.
Not to mention a lot of people don't think they can lose weight without any form of exercise accompanying a reduced intake.
So no you didn't prove my statement wrong. You just elaborated what I've already established in my OP.
Thanks for playing though.
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"Obviously if you have a rudimentary understanding of weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit to do lose weight."
Cardio helps someone who is trying to lose weight to lose weight, end of story.
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If someone can't control what they eat then yes they won't lose weight.
You have this idea in your head that I think cardio directly burns the fat off your body.
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2 -
No the title is right. Ask any regular gym person on a cardio machine on why they are doing it and I'll bet that 90% will say they are doing it to burn fat and lose weight.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.
Argue it anyway you want, but within the community who are actually trying to LEARN how to lose weight correctly, giving them information that dispels what the fitness and diet industry has been teaching is a good thing.
I'm sorry, but your original post logically contradicts your title.
You state that (1) cardio *can* help build a deficit and (2) a deficit "burns fat."
Therefore, cardio can help burn fat. That's what follows logically. Your title says the opposite, so is illogical.
Now, that logic chain doesn't mean cardio *must* help. People could eat too much and ruin the deficit. But it can help. So saying cardio isn't for fat burning is illogical. I get it. Not everyone is a logic nerd.
As far as the part in bold...So what? Cardio can help burn fat/lose weight. They're not wrong. They're only wrong if they believe they can eat more than their CO and lose weight. It's *that* ignorance about the CI CO relationship that needs to be fixed, not labeling cardio as not contributing to fat loss (which you contradict in your OP anyway).2 -
If you read the OP, I directly state that "people that stated one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth". If there isn't a calorie deficit (with the possible exception of recomp) there's not going to excess fat utilized whether cardio is done or not. You're using the old "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy here.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
No the title is right. Ask any regular gym person on a cardio machine on why they are doing it and I'll bet that 90% will say they are doing it to burn fat and lose weight.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.
Argue it anyway you want, but within the community who are actually trying to LEARN how to lose weight correctly, giving them information that dispels what the fitness and diet industry has been teaching is a good thing.
I'm sorry, but your original post logically contradicts your title.
You state that (1) cardio *can* help build a deficit and (2) a deficit "burns fat."
Therefore, cardio can help burn fat. That's what follows logically. Your title says the opposite, so is illogical.
Contradicted in your line of thinking. But feel free to keep explaining the way you want. I've got it down correctly and community here understands what I'm trying to convey to make their weight loss efforts more productive.Now, that logic chain doesn't mean cardio *must* help. People could eat too much and ruin the deficit. But it can help. So saying cardio isn't for fat burning is illogical. I get it. Not everyone is a logic nerd.
As far as the part in bold...So what? Cardio can help burn fat/lose weight. They're not wrong. They're only wrong if they believe they can eat more than their CO and lose weight. It's *that* ignorance about the CI CO relationship that needs to be fixed, not labeling cardio as not contributing to fat loss (which you contradict in your OP anyway).
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Y'all are arguing semantics. @ninerbuff just like the statement "cardio IS for fat burning" is an absolute statement that is false, so is "cardio ISN'T for fat burning". Cardio can be for fat burning. If I am eating at a deficit, and adding in cardio to create a larger deficit or make it easier to adhere, it could be said that it is for fat loss. Is it the only thing that causes the fat loss? No...But it's part of it and can be the sole reason one is doing it. It's the absolute statement in the title that is getting contention. You know how MFP likes absolutes...0
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@ninerbuff I guess you were right that this thread was needed
There are posts every day from people that are spending hours at the gym and can't understand why they aren't "shedding fat". Plenty of people think that if you do cardio, you will automatically, while you are stepping away on the treadmill, burn off fat. I see article titles, show teasers, fitness links all the time promising the exercise to do that's "best at burning fat". All the OP was saying is that's not how it works. That it's the deficit over time (which you can get from exercise or just eating less) that causes your body to turn to your fat for fuel, not the exercise in that moment. At least that's how I read it!2 -
We both know how it works. It's just like the EPOC thing with lifting and it's myth too. How you liking them DUBS though? I'll be shocked if they don't win it all this year.Y'all are arguing semantics. @ninerbuff just like the statement "cardio IS for fat burning" is an absolute statement that is false, so is "cardio ISN'T for fat burning". Cardio can be for fat burning. If I am eating at a deficit, and adding in cardio to create a larger deficit or make it easier to adhere, it could be said that it is for fat loss. Is it the only thing that causes the fat loss? No...But it's part of it and can be the sole reason one is doing it. It's the absolute statement in the title that is getting contention. You know how MFP likes absolutes...
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IMO, people who use cardio as a means of fat burning wind up on the punishment/reward hamster wheel. I ate like a pig so tomorrow i will do lots of cardio, or, I can eat this whole pizza because I did cardio this morning. For me, strength train to build and maintain muscle, cardio to strengthen my cardiovascular system and energy deficit to lose fat...4
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We both know how it works. It's just like the EPOC thing with lifting and it's myth too. How you liking them DUBS though? I'll be shocked if they don't win it all this year.Y'all are arguing semantics. @ninerbuff just like the statement "cardio IS for fat burning" is an absolute statement that is false, so is "cardio ISN'T for fat burning". Cardio can be for fat burning. If I am eating at a deficit, and adding in cardio to create a larger deficit or make it easier to adhere, it could be said that it is for fat loss. Is it the only thing that causes the fat loss? No...But it's part of it and can be the sole reason one is doing it. It's the absolute statement in the title that is getting contention. You know how MFP likes absolutes...
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Honestly, anything less than them going undefeated was a failure in my opinion...0 -
If you read the OP, I directly state that "people that stated one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth". If there isn't a calorie deficit (with the possible exception of recomp) there's not going to excess fat utilized whether cardio is done or not. You're using the old "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy here.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
No the title is right. Ask any regular gym person on a cardio machine on why they are doing it and I'll bet that 90% will say they are doing it to burn fat and lose weight.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.
Argue it anyway you want, but within the community who are actually trying to LEARN how to lose weight correctly, giving them information that dispels what the fitness and diet industry has been teaching is a good thing.
I'm sorry, but your original post logically contradicts your title.
You state that (1) cardio *can* help build a deficit and (2) a deficit "burns fat."
Therefore, cardio can help burn fat. That's what follows logically. Your title says the opposite, so is illogical.
No I'm not lol. That would be saying: 1). People who did cardio lost weight. 2). Cardio causes weight loss. That's not at all what I'm saying. Of course that line of reasoning is flawed. But it's also flawed to say (1) "cardio isn't for fat loss" when it can be. In your mind, it appears that saying (1) is the *same* as saying (2) "cardio isn't necessary or sufficient for fat loss" but those are two different statements, with very different meanings and consequences.
I get what you *really* mean, but when you make statements like (1) you're distorting (2) and not really saying it. That could confuse and mislead people. It's statements like (1) that could lead people to putting cardio and diet into fixed boxes of "for health/fitness" and "for weight loss/maintenance," respectively.
I don't work in fitness, so I'm not regularly dealing with CICO ignoramuses. I understand that the spirit of your message is to help people become aware of that relationship and stop thinking that cardio is necessary or sufficient for weight loss. And *that's* a great and helpful message to spread. 1 -
I... actually didn't know this. I feel like an idiot because several people here seem to think it should be common knowledge by now, but I really had no idea. I've been doing cardio every day, thinking that it was helping with my weight loss. I mean, having a higher calorie limit is great and all, but I think I could've just been food-stingy two days ago when I jogged that mile in a near-blizzard and went without the resulting runny nose and earache. xD
I think I'll stick to it, though. I just quit smoking after ten years of pumping my lungs full of toxic chemicals, so they could use the workout. Also, I'm guessing aerobics has something to do with the major reduction in heart palpitations I've experienced; I used to get them every night, but I've been without them for a week now.
This is still great information to have. Thanks for sharing. 2 -
We both know how it works. It's just like the EPOC thing with lifting and it's myth too. How you liking them DUBS though? I'll be shocked if they don't win it all this year.Y'all are arguing semantics. @ninerbuff just like the statement "cardio IS for fat burning" is an absolute statement that is false, so is "cardio ISN'T for fat burning". Cardio can be for fat burning. If I am eating at a deficit, and adding in cardio to create a larger deficit or make it easier to adhere, it could be said that it is for fat loss. Is it the only thing that causes the fat loss? No...But it's part of it and can be the sole reason one is doing it. It's the absolute statement in the title that is getting contention. You know how MFP likes absolutes...
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Honestly, anything less than them going undefeated was a failure in my opinion...
Hahaha! With Durant, they can go off in any quarter and it's usually big. Can't wait till the playoffs.
We both know how it works. It's just like the EPOC thing with lifting and it's myth too. How you liking them DUBS though? I'll be shocked if they don't win it all this year.Y'all are arguing semantics. @ninerbuff just like the statement "cardio IS for fat burning" is an absolute statement that is false, so is "cardio ISN'T for fat burning". Cardio can be for fat burning. If I am eating at a deficit, and adding in cardio to create a larger deficit or make it easier to adhere, it could be said that it is for fat loss. Is it the only thing that causes the fat loss? No...But it's part of it and can be the sole reason one is doing it. It's the absolute statement in the title that is getting contention. You know how MFP likes absolutes...
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Honestly, anything less than them going undefeated was a failure in my opinion...
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It's perfectly fine to stick with it. Especially for health reasons. Just remember that it's how much you eat up to your TDEE that determines your deficit and if you're staying under, you should lose weight.I... actually didn't know this. I feel like an idiot because several people here seem to think it should be common knowledge by now, but I really had no idea. I've been doing cardio every day, thinking that it was helping with my weight loss. I mean, having a higher calorie limit is great and all, but I think I could've just been food-stingy two days ago when I jogged that mile in a near-blizzard and went without the resulting runny nose and earache. xD
I think I'll stick to it, though. I just quit smoking after ten years of pumping my lungs full of toxic chemicals, so they could use the workout. Also, I'm guessing aerobics has something to do with the major reduction in heart palpitations I've experienced; I used to get them every night, but I've been without them for a week now.
This is still great information to have. Thanks for sharing.
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kind of a click-bait crap title. Cardio, just like all energy usage is for fat burning. After glycogen is gone, what do you think your body does for energy. If you are eating at a surplus then fat get added and you are losing the battle. Your message is good but you picked a poor way to get your point across. IMO.2
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