For Some of Us there ARE Bad Foods

paperpudding

I also notice Danny didn't have bad in italics, he had food in italics.

As if not only is sugar bad, it is not even really food.

That is just silly. Sugar is just an ingredient ( unless anyone eats it on its own) and as long as people are consuming it in moderation, ie within calorie goals and as part of a balanced diet, it isn't a problem.

lemurcat12

lorrpb wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

tomteboda wrote: »

After posting earlier my long argument about the arbitrariness of the NIH chart of foods, I went on a lovely hike with my dogs. When I sat down with my supper it hit me that I've eaten foods almost exclusively on the "SLOW" and "WOAH" lists today. It made me laugh, because I've met all my nutrition goals for the day but am well under the calories I need yet.

This was all entirely coincidental, I ate what I intended to eat today and changed nothing with respect to the list (either to add or subtract).

While I don't generally share my diary, I thought it would be humorous to show you a diet breaking all the NIH "rules" that still managed to cover all necessary nutritional bases. Everything was weighed on a scale, so I can be fairly certain of my intake.

My goal is 1500 calories. I have MFP set to sedentary, and add exercise in but eat about half my calories back. Because we all know the estimates are grossly exaggerated.

My diet is a little shorter on fruits & vegetables than usual because I ran out of bananas today, which would normally round out my post-hiking/walking snack, and because I had a monster salad from heaven yesterday and nutrition is an overall picture thing anyway. I took vitamins. I do this every day, regardless of what I eat. The one-daily covers the bases if I fall short somewhere during the day, and the Vitamin D is on doctor's orders. I know that absolutely no nutritional purist of any stripe is going to "like" this, but it was my day and I'm happy with it, and I know it fit into my goals very nicely.

I'm a little heavier on both protein and fat than most days today, but my weekly average is (49% Carbohydrate, 29% Fat, 22% Protein). Within 1-2 percentage points that's been fairly steady for the entire 16 months I've been logging.




Oh the ways in which I have broken the rules! Shall I count thee?

1. I fried those eggs. With nonstick spray, so I'm missing what, maybe 2 calories from that? I needed something to eat with my morning lupus medication, and was craving eggs. Not my typical breakfast, I usually go for a half cup of grape nuts with a teaspoon of sugar, but you know, this was good. Even if it was (WOAH)
2. Pasta! Yes, I ate a generous 3 oz portion of Creamette 150 Thin Spaghetti.. but wait, all pasta is not created equal! This pasta was high in fiber, giving me a real leg up on that early in the day. (SLOW)
3. *shudder* Processed pasta sauce! Prego Heart Smart Traditional Spaghetti Sauce, to be preciese. The horror! It came out of a jar, and indeed one cannot be entire certain that they actually used tomatoes even though it says tomatoe puree and diced tomatoes for the first two ingredients. And what's that on ingredient three? Sugar? Well that invalidated all that tomatoey goodness right there, didn't it? Despite the American Heart Association's approval, too. (SLOW)
4. Processed meat. Yes, I decided to up my protein intake by throwing a processed meat (a heavily processed food?) on top of that evil pasta and spaghetti for lunch. Mama Cozzi's Pizza Kitchen Turkey Pepperoni from Aldi's added this delicious burst of flavor and helped me fuel up for my hike. (WOAH)
5. I drank a bunch of diet pop. I'm sure that I'm going to nutrition hell for that, even if it is on the (GO).
6. Taco shells. Specifically Ortega Yellow Corn Taco Shells (made with whole corn and canola oil, not soybean, so I don't risk killing myself short-term because of my soybean allergy). (SLOW)
7. Ground beef. Oh this was wonderful. We don't season it with taco seasoning, but we do add some pepper and cayenne to it. This was 90% lean beef I bought in bulk at Sam's Club and froze awhile ago, so when ground beef pops up in my diet it usually does so for 2-3 days in a row. I had a 4.1 oz hamburger last night, too, for what it's worth. Ground beef this lean needs to be watched fairly carefully as it can dry out easily, but I love the texture and flavor. At any rate...so much for (SLOW)
8. My taco would have been very very sad without cheese. And there's no way fat-free or processed cheese spread is going to dust them either. So I had 1.2 oz of delicious, full-fat cheddar cheese. That's a big-old-(WOAH).
9. I needed more green stuff and the iceberg lettuce didn't cut it. I had half an avocado left over from yesterday (wrapped with a little lime juice, do I need to log that? I shook it off...). That weighed in at 62 g and gave me a bonus of 4 g of fiber with its green deliciousness. But wait! Avocado is... (SLOW).
10. The tacos (2) really needed sour cream. I put a bit of Daisy Light Sour Cream on each, weighing in at a total of 33 grams. It doesn't take much to get that nice tangy addition. It was the perfect topper to a delicious supper and one fantastic (SLOW)
11. Of course, unlisted are my tomatoes, which are no dietary rule-breaker, or my 2 appx. 8-oz servings of skim milk. I have nothing against 1%, 2% or even whole milk, I just prefer the skim stuff. I clearly had enough calories left over I could've drunk whichever I preferred.

---

There you have it, folks. During 1 day, I met all my nutrition goals (well I'm a little short on potassium but I'll make that up before bed) except raw calories in 1,268 calories and managed to tick up 6 (SLOW) foods and 3 (WOAH) ones.

---

Oh, and I'm not done eating for the day. I have no intention of having such a ridiculous deficit today. I'm set for a 500 calorie daily deficit (1 lb/ week), a rate of loss which I've slightly exceeded when measured monthly over the last 16 months.

While have 657 calories to play with yet and still be within my deficit (counting 1/2 exercise calories), I will probably have 204 grams (1.5 cups) of ice cream (420 calories, Food Club Vanilla) with a half cup of blueberries tonight (42 calories) . And with ignoring that (WOAH) I'll yell

HI HO SILVER AWAAAY!

This would not meet "my" nutritional goals because it has a whopping 75% carbs and a scant 15% protein. I prefer no more than 50% carbs and about 20-25% protein, which is more in line with MFPs standard recommendation and is more satiating "for me". If it works for you, great, but I wouldn't promote it as nutritionally sound.

Really? My math has 26% protein, and 42% carbs. What am I doing wrong? It is true that I've never learned Common Core, maybe that's it?

Also, on what basis is 84 g of protein not nutritionally sound? (Protein should be looked at by gram, not percentage of the diet.)

The RDI is only .8 g per kg (of healthy body weight if one is overweight) (for me that would be about 45 g).

Even if you use the recommendation to preserve muscle and provide for best performance for people with athletic goals (which is way beyond what the US dietary guidelines recommend, although more in tune with what a lot of people here like for dieting), it's about .65-.85 g/lb of healthy body weight. For me, that's about 80-105 g.

Sorry, I think I was adding up the wrong line! I APOLOGIZE. I track my macros based on % using the MFP pie chart and that works just fine for me. It all comes out close enough in the end. If my cals are on target and my % are on target, the grams will be on target too. That's just the way math works. I did say "my" goals, not what anyone else should do.

Yeah, I think macros are pretty personal, so percentages can work fine, especially if your calories aren't that high or low.

I think percentages can mess people up if doing a low cal diet or if they have higher cals.

What's the default protein, 20%? At 1200 calories, that's only 60 grams of protein, which IMO is going to be too low for the optimal range to maintain muscle at a deficit for many. Probably not a big thing, but it's why I aimed for more like 30-35% when I was cutting really low.

For the same reason when I'm working out a lot and at maintenance under 20% protein can be fine, as it is still the grams that are right for me.

ClosetBayesian

DannyMcCaffrey wrote: »

For ALL of us there is one bad "food" - Sugar.

Nutritionally meaningless, increases appetite and inflammation, and most likely contributes to obesity.

I challenge your statement with the 100lbs I have lost, and a pint of ice cream.

Lleldiranne

CLK63 wrote: »

I made a lifestyle change around my food choices. I have found that flour and sugar affect me poorly. I feel tired all the time, bloated, sore joints and my mood changes. When I am off the flour and sugar I feel much better. It's my personal choice and experience.

That's fine. No one says you have to eat those.

As long as you aren't saying flour and sugar are bad foods - especially as a generalization to everyone - you are fine eliminating them, and sharing your personal experiences.

Lleldiranne

DannyMcCaffrey wrote: »

For ALL of us there is one bad "food" - Sugar.

Nutritionally meaningless, increases appetite and inflammation, and most likely contributes to obesity.

Sources?

Others have replied to the nutritionally meaningless bit (if it were, why does our system break most things down to glucose?

But, really, I'd love to see some legitimate studies that indicate sugar actually increases appetite. And that it increases inflammation.

And any food, eaten in excess, contributes to obesity. It's calories.

lorrpb

lemurcat12 wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

tomteboda wrote: »

After posting earlier my long argument about the arbitrariness of the NIH chart of foods, I went on a lovely hike with my dogs. When I sat down with my supper it hit me that I've eaten foods almost exclusively on the "SLOW" and "WOAH" lists today. It made me laugh, because I've met all my nutrition goals for the day but am well under the calories I need yet.

This was all entirely coincidental, I ate what I intended to eat today and changed nothing with respect to the list (either to add or subtract).

While I don't generally share my diary, I thought it would be humorous to show you a diet breaking all the NIH "rules" that still managed to cover all necessary nutritional bases. Everything was weighed on a scale, so I can be fairly certain of my intake.

My goal is 1500 calories. I have MFP set to sedentary, and add exercise in but eat about half my calories back. Because we all know the estimates are grossly exaggerated.

My diet is a little shorter on fruits & vegetables than usual because I ran out of bananas today, which would normally round out my post-hiking/walking snack, and because I had a monster salad from heaven yesterday and nutrition is an overall picture thing anyway. I took vitamins. I do this every day, regardless of what I eat. The one-daily covers the bases if I fall short somewhere during the day, and the Vitamin D is on doctor's orders. I know that absolutely no nutritional purist of any stripe is going to "like" this, but it was my day and I'm happy with it, and I know it fit into my goals very nicely.

I'm a little heavier on both protein and fat than most days today, but my weekly average is (49% Carbohydrate, 29% Fat, 22% Protein). Within 1-2 percentage points that's been fairly steady for the entire 16 months I've been logging.




Oh the ways in which I have broken the rules! Shall I count thee?

1. I fried those eggs. With nonstick spray, so I'm missing what, maybe 2 calories from that? I needed something to eat with my morning lupus medication, and was craving eggs. Not my typical breakfast, I usually go for a half cup of grape nuts with a teaspoon of sugar, but you know, this was good. Even if it was (WOAH)
2. Pasta! Yes, I ate a generous 3 oz portion of Creamette 150 Thin Spaghetti.. but wait, all pasta is not created equal! This pasta was high in fiber, giving me a real leg up on that early in the day. (SLOW)
3. *shudder* Processed pasta sauce! Prego Heart Smart Traditional Spaghetti Sauce, to be preciese. The horror! It came out of a jar, and indeed one cannot be entire certain that they actually used tomatoes even though it says tomatoe puree and diced tomatoes for the first two ingredients. And what's that on ingredient three? Sugar? Well that invalidated all that tomatoey goodness right there, didn't it? Despite the American Heart Association's approval, too. (SLOW)
4. Processed meat. Yes, I decided to up my protein intake by throwing a processed meat (a heavily processed food?) on top of that evil pasta and spaghetti for lunch. Mama Cozzi's Pizza Kitchen Turkey Pepperoni from Aldi's added this delicious burst of flavor and helped me fuel up for my hike. (WOAH)
5. I drank a bunch of diet pop. I'm sure that I'm going to nutrition hell for that, even if it is on the (GO).
6. Taco shells. Specifically Ortega Yellow Corn Taco Shells (made with whole corn and canola oil, not soybean, so I don't risk killing myself short-term because of my soybean allergy). (SLOW)
7. Ground beef. Oh this was wonderful. We don't season it with taco seasoning, but we do add some pepper and cayenne to it. This was 90% lean beef I bought in bulk at Sam's Club and froze awhile ago, so when ground beef pops up in my diet it usually does so for 2-3 days in a row. I had a 4.1 oz hamburger last night, too, for what it's worth. Ground beef this lean needs to be watched fairly carefully as it can dry out easily, but I love the texture and flavor. At any rate...so much for (SLOW)
8. My taco would have been very very sad without cheese. And there's no way fat-free or processed cheese spread is going to dust them either. So I had 1.2 oz of delicious, full-fat cheddar cheese. That's a big-old-(WOAH).
9. I needed more green stuff and the iceberg lettuce didn't cut it. I had half an avocado left over from yesterday (wrapped with a little lime juice, do I need to log that? I shook it off...). That weighed in at 62 g and gave me a bonus of 4 g of fiber with its green deliciousness. But wait! Avocado is... (SLOW).
10. The tacos (2) really needed sour cream. I put a bit of Daisy Light Sour Cream on each, weighing in at a total of 33 grams. It doesn't take much to get that nice tangy addition. It was the perfect topper to a delicious supper and one fantastic (SLOW)
11. Of course, unlisted are my tomatoes, which are no dietary rule-breaker, or my 2 appx. 8-oz servings of skim milk. I have nothing against 1%, 2% or even whole milk, I just prefer the skim stuff. I clearly had enough calories left over I could've drunk whichever I preferred.

---

There you have it, folks. During 1 day, I met all my nutrition goals (well I'm a little short on potassium but I'll make that up before bed) except raw calories in 1,268 calories and managed to tick up 6 (SLOW) foods and 3 (WOAH) ones.

---

Oh, and I'm not done eating for the day. I have no intention of having such a ridiculous deficit today. I'm set for a 500 calorie daily deficit (1 lb/ week), a rate of loss which I've slightly exceeded when measured monthly over the last 16 months.

While have 657 calories to play with yet and still be within my deficit (counting 1/2 exercise calories), I will probably have 204 grams (1.5 cups) of ice cream (420 calories, Food Club Vanilla) with a half cup of blueberries tonight (42 calories) . And with ignoring that (WOAH) I'll yell

HI HO SILVER AWAAAY!

This would not meet "my" nutritional goals because it has a whopping 75% carbs and a scant 15% protein. I prefer no more than 50% carbs and about 20-25% protein, which is more in line with MFPs standard recommendation and is more satiating "for me". If it works for you, great, but I wouldn't promote it as nutritionally sound.

Really? My math has 26% protein, and 42% carbs. What am I doing wrong? It is true that I've never learned Common Core, maybe that's it?

Also, on what basis is 84 g of protein not nutritionally sound? (Protein should be looked at by gram, not percentage of the diet.)

The RDI is only .8 g per kg (of healthy body weight if one is overweight) (for me that would be about 45 g).

Even if you use the recommendation to preserve muscle and provide for best performance for people with athletic goals (which is way beyond what the US dietary guidelines recommend, although more in tune with what a lot of people here like for dieting), it's about .65-.85 g/lb of healthy body weight. For me, that's about 80-105 g.

Sorry, I think I was adding up the wrong line! I APOLOGIZE. I track my macros based on % using the MFP pie chart and that works just fine for me. It all comes out close enough in the end. If my cals are on target and my % are on target, the grams will be on target too. That's just the way math works. I did say "my" goals, not what anyone else should do.

Yeah, I think macros are pretty personal, so percentages can work fine, especially if your calories aren't that high or low.

I think percentages can mess people up if doing a low cal diet or if they have higher cals.

What's the default protein, 20%? At 1200 calories, that's only 60 grams of protein, which IMO is going to be too low for the optimal range to maintain muscle at a deficit for many. Probably not a big thing, but it's why I aimed for more like 30-35% when I was cutting really low.

For the same reason when I'm working out a lot and at maintenance under 20% protein can be fine, as it is still the grams that are right for me.

Yes, I think the default is 20%, that's my bare minimum and I usually aim for about 25%, which on 1700 cals is fine.

There is so much unclear and conflicting info on protein consumption that I don't know how to evaluate it. I've seen 6-.8g and .8-1.0g. I've seen it based on total body weight and on lean body mass only. I've seen it based current weight and "ideal" weight. Why shouldn't it be based on current weight, even for overweight people. You want to retain as much of the muscle that you have, right? So why deprive your current muscles? What is the ideal weight supposed to be based on since so many here seem to dismiss the BMI charts? If it's based lean body mass, then how do you know what that is, short of a bod pod or hydrotank? How would know what LBM is if using an "ideal" weight? Would you also make up an "ideal" BF%? BMI and BF% are not usually adjusted for age, which they should be. So it all sounds like mish-mash to me, and that's why a % is easier to deal with.

lemurcat12

lorrpb wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

tomteboda wrote: »

After posting earlier my long argument about the arbitrariness of the NIH chart of foods, I went on a lovely hike with my dogs. When I sat down with my supper it hit me that I've eaten foods almost exclusively on the "SLOW" and "WOAH" lists today. It made me laugh, because I've met all my nutrition goals for the day but am well under the calories I need yet.

This was all entirely coincidental, I ate what I intended to eat today and changed nothing with respect to the list (either to add or subtract).

While I don't generally share my diary, I thought it would be humorous to show you a diet breaking all the NIH "rules" that still managed to cover all necessary nutritional bases. Everything was weighed on a scale, so I can be fairly certain of my intake.

My goal is 1500 calories. I have MFP set to sedentary, and add exercise in but eat about half my calories back. Because we all know the estimates are grossly exaggerated.

My diet is a little shorter on fruits & vegetables than usual because I ran out of bananas today, which would normally round out my post-hiking/walking snack, and because I had a monster salad from heaven yesterday and nutrition is an overall picture thing anyway. I took vitamins. I do this every day, regardless of what I eat. The one-daily covers the bases if I fall short somewhere during the day, and the Vitamin D is on doctor's orders. I know that absolutely no nutritional purist of any stripe is going to "like" this, but it was my day and I'm happy with it, and I know it fit into my goals very nicely.

I'm a little heavier on both protein and fat than most days today, but my weekly average is (49% Carbohydrate, 29% Fat, 22% Protein). Within 1-2 percentage points that's been fairly steady for the entire 16 months I've been logging.




Oh the ways in which I have broken the rules! Shall I count thee?

1. I fried those eggs. With nonstick spray, so I'm missing what, maybe 2 calories from that? I needed something to eat with my morning lupus medication, and was craving eggs. Not my typical breakfast, I usually go for a half cup of grape nuts with a teaspoon of sugar, but you know, this was good. Even if it was (WOAH)
2. Pasta! Yes, I ate a generous 3 oz portion of Creamette 150 Thin Spaghetti.. but wait, all pasta is not created equal! This pasta was high in fiber, giving me a real leg up on that early in the day. (SLOW)
3. *shudder* Processed pasta sauce! Prego Heart Smart Traditional Spaghetti Sauce, to be preciese. The horror! It came out of a jar, and indeed one cannot be entire certain that they actually used tomatoes even though it says tomatoe puree and diced tomatoes for the first two ingredients. And what's that on ingredient three? Sugar? Well that invalidated all that tomatoey goodness right there, didn't it? Despite the American Heart Association's approval, too. (SLOW)
4. Processed meat. Yes, I decided to up my protein intake by throwing a processed meat (a heavily processed food?) on top of that evil pasta and spaghetti for lunch. Mama Cozzi's Pizza Kitchen Turkey Pepperoni from Aldi's added this delicious burst of flavor and helped me fuel up for my hike. (WOAH)
5. I drank a bunch of diet pop. I'm sure that I'm going to nutrition hell for that, even if it is on the (GO).
6. Taco shells. Specifically Ortega Yellow Corn Taco Shells (made with whole corn and canola oil, not soybean, so I don't risk killing myself short-term because of my soybean allergy). (SLOW)
7. Ground beef. Oh this was wonderful. We don't season it with taco seasoning, but we do add some pepper and cayenne to it. This was 90% lean beef I bought in bulk at Sam's Club and froze awhile ago, so when ground beef pops up in my diet it usually does so for 2-3 days in a row. I had a 4.1 oz hamburger last night, too, for what it's worth. Ground beef this lean needs to be watched fairly carefully as it can dry out easily, but I love the texture and flavor. At any rate...so much for (SLOW)
8. My taco would have been very very sad without cheese. And there's no way fat-free or processed cheese spread is going to dust them either. So I had 1.2 oz of delicious, full-fat cheddar cheese. That's a big-old-(WOAH).
9. I needed more green stuff and the iceberg lettuce didn't cut it. I had half an avocado left over from yesterday (wrapped with a little lime juice, do I need to log that? I shook it off...). That weighed in at 62 g and gave me a bonus of 4 g of fiber with its green deliciousness. But wait! Avocado is... (SLOW).
10. The tacos (2) really needed sour cream. I put a bit of Daisy Light Sour Cream on each, weighing in at a total of 33 grams. It doesn't take much to get that nice tangy addition. It was the perfect topper to a delicious supper and one fantastic (SLOW)
11. Of course, unlisted are my tomatoes, which are no dietary rule-breaker, or my 2 appx. 8-oz servings of skim milk. I have nothing against 1%, 2% or even whole milk, I just prefer the skim stuff. I clearly had enough calories left over I could've drunk whichever I preferred.

---

There you have it, folks. During 1 day, I met all my nutrition goals (well I'm a little short on potassium but I'll make that up before bed) except raw calories in 1,268 calories and managed to tick up 6 (SLOW) foods and 3 (WOAH) ones.

---

Oh, and I'm not done eating for the day. I have no intention of having such a ridiculous deficit today. I'm set for a 500 calorie daily deficit (1 lb/ week), a rate of loss which I've slightly exceeded when measured monthly over the last 16 months.

While have 657 calories to play with yet and still be within my deficit (counting 1/2 exercise calories), I will probably have 204 grams (1.5 cups) of ice cream (420 calories, Food Club Vanilla) with a half cup of blueberries tonight (42 calories) . And with ignoring that (WOAH) I'll yell

HI HO SILVER AWAAAY!

This would not meet "my" nutritional goals because it has a whopping 75% carbs and a scant 15% protein. I prefer no more than 50% carbs and about 20-25% protein, which is more in line with MFPs standard recommendation and is more satiating "for me". If it works for you, great, but I wouldn't promote it as nutritionally sound.

Really? My math has 26% protein, and 42% carbs. What am I doing wrong? It is true that I've never learned Common Core, maybe that's it?

Also, on what basis is 84 g of protein not nutritionally sound? (Protein should be looked at by gram, not percentage of the diet.)

The RDI is only .8 g per kg (of healthy body weight if one is overweight) (for me that would be about 45 g).

Even if you use the recommendation to preserve muscle and provide for best performance for people with athletic goals (which is way beyond what the US dietary guidelines recommend, although more in tune with what a lot of people here like for dieting), it's about .65-.85 g/lb of healthy body weight. For me, that's about 80-105 g.

Sorry, I think I was adding up the wrong line! I APOLOGIZE. I track my macros based on % using the MFP pie chart and that works just fine for me. It all comes out close enough in the end. If my cals are on target and my % are on target, the grams will be on target too. That's just the way math works. I did say "my" goals, not what anyone else should do.

Yeah, I think macros are pretty personal, so percentages can work fine, especially if your calories aren't that high or low.

I think percentages can mess people up if doing a low cal diet or if they have higher cals.

What's the default protein, 20%? At 1200 calories, that's only 60 grams of protein, which IMO is going to be too low for the optimal range to maintain muscle at a deficit for many. Probably not a big thing, but it's why I aimed for more like 30-35% when I was cutting really low.

For the same reason when I'm working out a lot and at maintenance under 20% protein can be fine, as it is still the grams that are right for me.

Yes, I think the default is 20%, that's my bare minimum and I usually aim for about 25%, which on 1700 cals is fine.

There is so much unclear and conflicting info on protein consumption that I don't know how to evaluate it. I've seen 6-.8g and .8-1.0g. I've seen it based on total body weight and on lean body mass only. I've seen it based current weight and "ideal" weight. Why shouldn't it be based on current weight, even for overweight people. You want to retain as much of the muscle that you have, right? So why deprive your current muscles? What is the ideal weight supposed to be based on since so many here seem to dismiss the BMI charts? If it's based lean body mass, then how do you know what that is, short of a bod pod or hydrotank? How would know what LBM is if using an "ideal" weight? Would you also make up an "ideal" BF%? BMI and BF% are not usually adjusted for age, which they should be. So it all sounds like mish-mash to me, and that's why a % is easier to deal with.

I consider the Examine.com site quite reputable and they cite studies for their conclusions, and based on that I buy into the .65-.85 g/lb of healthy body weight number, for those at a deficit and working out. See http://examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/ and also http://examine.com/faq/how-does-protein-affect-weight-loss/

I think basing it on LBM is best, but most don't know their LBM (the 1 g # is usually per lb of LBM).

Current weight would be wrong, because the current weight numbers are an estimate based on LBM adjusted for an average person, I think, and you wouldn't have much more LBM just because you are overweight (the protein serves to protect and repair muscle, not the fat, so excess fat wouldn't necessarily matter). Based on this I'd guess women would be on the lower end and safe, since we have more body fat at a healthy weight than men do, but we also have more trouble building muscle (and people need more as they get older, because it's harder for people to build), so I tend to err on the high side -- the .8g.

For ideal weight I think goal weight works or current weight if in a healthy range (but then I don't dismiss the BMI chart unless you know you have more muscle than average for some reason, and if so you are more likely to know your LBM or have a good estimate).

Anyway, that's just how I think of it. I'm about to start a meatless experiment for a while, and I suspect that's going to make it tougher for me to hit my usual protein targets for a while (during the learning process), so I hope I'm also right that there's a good bit of room for error, especially if one is not at a huge deficit.

tomteboda

@lorrpb Just for you