For Some of Us there ARE Bad Foods
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samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
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samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.
If they made an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, would it be clean or not clean?0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.
If they made an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, would it be clean or not clean?
Not sure about clean/dirty, but it sounds pretty disgusting.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.
If they made an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, would it be clean or not clean?
Not sure about clean/dirty, but it sounds pretty disgusting.
Are you saying my woo Twinkie is a fail?
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endlessfall16 wrote: »nut butters are a very good food...but not if it was in my pantry. I'd most likely end up eating it straight out of the jar at 10pm at night...and lots of it. So unfortunately, at this time in my life, it is a bad food (for me).
That reminds me. My wife just discovered honey whipped butter and thought it was godsend.
Is that something sold in stores or just concocted up by chefs?
If she likes it, perhaps you shouldn't feed it to her.0 -
MommyMeggo wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »My understanding is that the whole no bad food thing is about weight loss and only weight loss.
As in 1000 calories of deep fried mars bars is the same as 1000 calories of assorted vegetables, for weight loss.
I don't think I have ever seen someone say there are no bad foods, eat all the deep fried mars bars you like, you will fill all your macros perfectly and live in perfect health.
It's about context. They'd say you can include even a deep fried Mars bar in your diet every once in a while and still have an overall healthful, balanced diet that is calorie-appropriate and meets your goals. Occasionally eating a deep fried Mars bar doesn't harm your health and isn't something to feel bad or shameful about.
Of course, not being Scottish I have not tried a deep-fried Mars bar and feel deeply skeptical about it being worth eating.
I had a fried oreo and a fried snickers on saturday (along with a ton of other carnival food) - 48hrs later was weigh in Monday I had lost 3.1lbs since the previous monday. Bad tasted so good.
YOU NEED A DEEP FRIED SOMETHING!
You know what a funnel cake is? Its those delicious goodies smothered in funnel cake batter and fried.
You should have had the deep fried pecan pie. It was amazing.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.
If they made an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, would it be clean or not clean?
Well, ancient grains and nut butter are still processed, are they not? And, I'm pretty sure they come in packaging (or the nuts do, even if you make the nut butter at home).
But I now kind of want to invent an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, just to post on MFP.
Here is an ancient grain/nut butter peanut butter cup: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-food/new-recipes-featuring-trendy-ancient-grains/ (also some other things)
You could totally make an ancient grain cream puff and fill it with some kind of nut butter (hazelnut would probably be good).
Tons of calories, I'm sure. ;-)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »samiraeh08 wrote: »Okay - here's my 2 cents.
It's easier to eat well when dieting, because you can tell yourself it's just temporary. When we get to goal we relax. Knowing the calories and the tiny portion sizes, of "bad" foods makes it harder to lie to myself.
I am running into this problem too. I find that junk food and sweets are an "all or nothing" situation for me. If I cut out chips, pop tarts and cake, I will crave them badly in the first few days of dieting, but then I will completely stop craving them after about a week if I stick to my natural foods diet. But if i go to a party and have some cake, all of those cravings come back with a vengence. I am starting to realize that i simply cannot have those foods at all, probably forever, but that is ok! Once you get those foods out of your life, you will stop missing them. Now almond butter and ancient grains crackers are my junk food.
Of course knowing that this (nut butter and crackers) can be just as, or more calories/fat than the foods you use to consume - chips, tarts, cake. I guess that is why you labeled them as your 'junk food' or a 'once-in-awhile' treat?
I would say the poster calling her nut butter and ancient grain crackers "junk food" is a bit tounge-in-cheek. Calorie for calorie the nut butter and crackers are more nutrient dense than the chips, tarts, cakes.
If they made an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, would it be clean or not clean?
Well, ancient grains and nut butter are still processed, are they not? And, I'm pretty sure they come in packaging (or the nuts do, even if you make the nut butter at home).
But I now kind of want to invent an ancient grain nut butter Twinkie, just to post on MFP.
Here is an ancient grain/nut butter peanut butter cup: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-food/new-recipes-featuring-trendy-ancient-grains/ (also some other things)
You could totally make an ancient grain cream puff and fill it with some kind of nut butter (hazelnut would probably be good).
Tons of calories, I'm sure. ;-)
So it would be ironically filthy. 0 -
Nut butter0
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Alluminati wrote: »Nut butter
Say that ten times fast ...0 -
Pretty sure the point that the OP has tried to put across has been lost several pages back.
You can use the 'stickies' on here as your bible all you want...to each their own.
But everybody is different, and all the OP was trying to say (from what I see) is that it may not be appropriate to tell people looking for advice that there are no bad foods, simply because what works for some can 110% not work for others.
I know people who could eat nothing but donuts and lose weight, and I know people who could have 1 donut a day and be stopped dead in their tracks (yes, even while having a deficit).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I have been using MFP for some time, but have only recently started visiting this board. I find myself surprised at the number of people who say such things as "there are no bad foods" or "you can eat whatever you want" when they no nothing of the individual circumstances of the poster.
We know that people respond differently to medicines; we know that they respond differently to alcohol. Yet people seem to assume that whatever works for them apply to everyone else.
I find that most of the "itos" food group are bad foods for me. Consider the following situation:
I typically save calories so that if I get hungry in the evening, there is room for a snack. So lets assume I am going to "spend" 160 calories.
My choices:
A. Eat 1/4 cup of nuts B. 160 calories of raw veggies with hummus or C. 160 calories of Cheetos
If I were to select A or B, I would end up more full the whole evening, and I would experiences no strong urges to eat the entire pantry. If I were to select C., I would be REALLY hungry 15 minutes later and would have to fight back INTENSE cravings to eat more.
Now my willpower is usually very good; but even if it holds up, I am starving all night. However, if I have had a really bad day or am otherwise exhausted and feeling stressed, I may be vulnerable to succumbing.
Success for me means eliminating "itos". I have gone as long as 6-7 years without touching these foods, and my weight fluctuations are within about a 15-20 pound band. This band is much larger when I eat these kind of foods.
I understand that this does not apply to everyone. But I think we need to be careful about telling people they can succeed while eating everything they like to eat, because there are people for whom this generalization is simply not true.
OP, I completely agree with you!
Any chance you will bother responding to the other posts?
Somehow I think not, although I do regret that.
I think it's rude not to address counterarguments, even to express disagreement. I'd be interested in reasoned disagreement, and would consider it (just as I've come to understand that Need2 simply means something different from "bad food" than I would and so calling it "bad food" works for her). So many seem to refuse to understand the arguments and pretend, instead, that others are ignoring nutrition, which is 180 degrees from the reality. (I think I am much more concerned with nutrition than someone who oversimplifies it to not eating a few "bad" foods.)
I'd particularly be interested in any response to how (a) not eating foods you don't want to eat or care about isn't cutting them out; and (b) the posts about how one fits "bad foods" (like my pork example) into a healthy diet (if you claim it can't be done or can't be healthy or pork shoulder is still BAD).
1. There's no rule that if one replies to OP they also must rehash every response in the thread! I simply wanted to support OP because this view is so often trashed on MFP. I think one of the general netiquette rules on most discussion boards is that you shouldn't tell other people how to post. But I guess I should be flattered that, for whatever reason, you seem to value my opinion so much!
2. I mostly participate from my phone so most posts tend to be short. I do have other things to do, so engaging in long repetitive arguments isn't high on my list.
3. For me, bad foods are those that have a bad effect on my energy, cravings, digestion, well being etc. I don't know why anyone would criticize that.
4. Re (a) I agree and I never said that. I do cut out some foods that I like but have bad effects on me, mentioned above. But I don't consider not eating foods I don't like as cutting out.
5. Re (b) you can have all the pork shoulder you want to! I have no rules about pork shoulder, especially for you.0 -
Pretty sure the point that the OP has tried to put across has been lost several pages back.
You can use the 'stickies' on here as your bible all you want...to each their own.
But everybody is different, and all the OP was trying to say (from what I see) is that it may not be appropriate to tell people looking for advice that there are no bad foods, simply because what works for some can 110% not work for others.
I know people who could eat nothing but donuts and lose weight, and I know people who could have 1 donut a day and be stopped dead in their tracks (yes, even while having a deficit).
That's totally on point. It's not about the hair-splitting argumentative posturing of definitions of food and nutrition. It is about what is appropriate, helpful, generative. Hear, hear, @Deadlift5
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I would try to reserve a "junky" snack like Cheetos for a day where it's not the last thing I'll eat. I don't do well if I have something not quite nutritional at the end of the day...0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I have been using MFP for some time, but have only recently started visiting this board. I find myself surprised at the number of people who say such things as "there are no bad foods" or "you can eat whatever you want" when they no nothing of the individual circumstances of the poster.
We know that people respond differently to medicines; we know that they respond differently to alcohol. Yet people seem to assume that whatever works for them apply to everyone else.
I find that most of the "itos" food group are bad foods for me. Consider the following situation:
I typically save calories so that if I get hungry in the evening, there is room for a snack. So lets assume I am going to "spend" 160 calories.
My choices:
A. Eat 1/4 cup of nuts B. 160 calories of raw veggies with hummus or C. 160 calories of Cheetos
If I were to select A or B, I would end up more full the whole evening, and I would experiences no strong urges to eat the entire pantry. If I were to select C., I would be REALLY hungry 15 minutes later and would have to fight back INTENSE cravings to eat more.
Now my willpower is usually very good; but even if it holds up, I am starving all night. However, if I have had a really bad day or am otherwise exhausted and feeling stressed, I may be vulnerable to succumbing.
Success for me means eliminating "itos". I have gone as long as 6-7 years without touching these foods, and my weight fluctuations are within about a 15-20 pound band. This band is much larger when I eat these kind of foods.
I understand that this does not apply to everyone. But I think we need to be careful about telling people they can succeed while eating everything they like to eat, because there are people for whom this generalization is simply not true.
OP, I completely agree with you!
Any chance you will bother responding to the other posts?
Somehow I think not, although I do regret that.
I think it's rude not to address counterarguments, even to express disagreement. I'd be interested in reasoned disagreement, and would consider it (just as I've come to understand that Need2 simply means something different from "bad food" than I would and so calling it "bad food" works for her). So many seem to refuse to understand the arguments and pretend, instead, that others are ignoring nutrition, which is 180 degrees from the reality. (I think I am much more concerned with nutrition than someone who oversimplifies it to not eating a few "bad" foods.)
I'd particularly be interested in any response to how (a) not eating foods you don't want to eat or care about isn't cutting them out; and (b) the posts about how one fits "bad foods" (like my pork example) into a healthy diet (if you claim it can't be done or can't be healthy or pork shoulder is still BAD).
1. There's no rule that if one replies to OP they also must rehash every response in the thread! I simply wanted to support OP because this view is so often trashed on MFP. I think one of the general netiquette rules on most discussion boards is that you shouldn't tell other people how to post. But I guess I should be flattered that, for whatever reason, you seem to value my opinion so much!
I thought your post read as passive aggressive, and since you made a huge point of agreeing with one poster you seemed to be disagreeing with the responses which were -- contrary to your and OP's implication -- not at all anti nutrition. I find it very rude that many ignore posts saying that nutrition matters to distort the "no bad foods" position into one that suggests we should eat only Cheetos or whatever. (I have never once in my life wanted to eat Cheetos, so thinking of it as a "bad food" seems pointless to me. If you like it, eat it; if you don't, don't, but don't pretend it's because you are too good for it, it's because you don't like it.)4. For me, bad foods are those that have a bad effect on my energy, cravings, digestion, well being etc. I don't know why anyone would criticize that.
I wouldn't. I object to claiming those are BAD for everyone vs. poor choices for you at a particular time. My example is that basically pure sugar (a gel) can be a good choice when running a marathon. Also, that I am allergic to penicillin doesn't make it bad, it makes it bad for me.5. Re (a) I agree and I never said that.
Great, but OP did, and you made a huge point of agreeing with him. No one eats everything -- we all have foods that typically aren't tasty or worth it to us. Most of us don't consider that cutting out foods or requires that we label them "bad."7. Re (b) you can have all the pork shoulder you want to! I have no rules about pork shoulder, especially for you.
Cool. But the side of the argument you supported (and made a huge point of supporting) did. So it seemed like an implicit agreement.
I also don't care what you eat or don't eat. When I say (contrary to OP's argument that Cheetos are BAD), that I don't believe in bad foods, I don't mean that nutrition doesn't matter (the offensive claim that you and others have made) and I certainly don't mean you should eat Cheetos (like I said, a food that it would never cross my mind to eat). I mean that if you happen to like Cheetos, you shouldn't feel bad about that.
I suspect that we don't really disagree, but I feel like you and OP want to pretend we do, and that anyone who says "I don't believe in bad foods" is saying "eat candy constantly" and that's why I feel frustrated at the lack of engagement.
And yes, I do wish there was more actual communication on MFP. If that makes you feel good, great. Maybe you will bother communicating. That would be cool. (I don't seek your approval -- I wish that you'd reject my actual arguments vs, some made-up idea of what I'm claiming which, again, seems rude when it happens.)0 -
Pretty sure the point that the OP has tried to put across has been lost several pages back.
You can use the 'stickies' on here as your bible all you want...to each their own.
But everybody is different, and all the OP was trying to say (from what I see) is that it may not be appropriate to tell people looking for advice that there are no bad foods, simply because what works for some can 110% not work for others.
I know people who could eat nothing but donuts and lose weight, and I know people who could have 1 donut a day and be stopped dead in their tracks (yes, even while having a deficit).
That is as possible as someone Jumping up and not falling back down because "hey,everyone is different."0 -
I know people who could eat nothing but donuts and lose weight, and I know people who could have 1 donut a day and be stopped dead in their tracks (yes, even while having a deficit).
Incorrect. Those calories are not magical. Think about it, if certain calories were able to create extra matter from nothing, that would be magic. We should send donuts and other sweets to countries who have a starving population since in some of them, it will stop weight loss in its tracks....
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There are foods that are bad for some people, but they differ for everyone. You have to figure out what you need to be healthy and happy and lose weight long term.
For me, fast food is BAD. Not because it will kill me in moderation, but because of how my mind reacts to it. So, is it really the food itself, or me?
Don't get too caught up in how others define things. Use what works for you. But understanding the underlying idea that the food itself isn't really the problem helps to focus us on ourselves, and our relationship with the food. Labeling certain foods as bad can play mind games, and shift the focus from your own behavior, and growth.
Because in the end, it's not the Whopper's fault that I drive by the BK every night after a long work day and am too tired to cook.
And the other angle is that while a food might not really be "bad", large amounts of it can create bad results for us. If all your calories are from candy bars, in the long run you might be able to stay under your calories, but you won;t be healthy.0
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