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How much will one pay/risk for weight loss?

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  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    Minerbuff, since it's easy to jump to the supposition that you've never actually needed to lose 5 lb, I'll answer your question by saying that I can show you any episode of Biggest Loser and say "That's how to lose 5 lb in a week."

    I think he's probably a fan of the SF 49ers, not of the mining profession. ;-)

    Not that there's anything wrong with being a miner.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    Minerbuff, since it's easy to jump to the supposition that you've never actually needed to lose 5 lb, I'll answer your question by saying that I can show you any episode of Biggest Loser and say "That's how to lose 5 lb in a week."

    Actually their "week of weight loss" is more like two weeks thanks to editing (going off of interviews with former contestants). And several outspoken contestants have discussed how unhealthy the program is with trainers and producers of the show telling them to ignore the advice of the doctors paid by the show to care for them during their time there.

    Utterly ridiculous that you would hold this show up as a healthy way to lose weight.
    The parameters in the OP are to lose 5lbs in a week without diet and exercise. I am sure that they do both on that show.

    @JeromeBarry1I think it is entirely possible for one to lose 5 pounds and more in a healthy manner. Each situation is unique.

    It's possible and healthy to lose 5 lbs per week?? That is a weekly caloric deficit of 17,500. I don't think so. If we are talking about the first couple weeks when water weight is coming off then fine, but to be healthy sustainable weekly loss???

    Again, going by the parameters in the OP, 5lbs in a week. It is very possible that a 400 pound 37 year old man eating 1300 calories per day could expect to safely lose 5 pounds in a week. That is considering diet alone. It is possible that he could lose even more if his activity level were increased. Each situation is unique. Is it sustainable? Maybe. There are a lot of factors that come into play as to whether or not it can be done safely.

    Oh, well you didn't mention such specific circumstances. I think the OP was talking about the general dieter who comes here and then looks for the magical (often dangerous) fixes to lose 5 lbs in a week. For the average dieter...not the morbid obese, it isn't practical nor healthy for one to lose 5 lbs a week. I don't think MFP picked 2 lbs as the max just on a whim.

    If anyone thinks 5 lbs. a week is a doable, realistic, healthy goal then they have a rude awakening.

    If anyone the average dieter thinks 5 lbs. a week is a doable sustainable

    FTFY

    lol
    edited March 2016
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    Minerbuff, since it's easy to jump to the supposition that you've never actually needed to lose 5 lb, I'll answer your question by saying that I can show you any episode of Biggest Loser and say "That's how to lose 5 lb in a week."

    Actually their "week of weight loss" is more like two weeks thanks to editing (going off of interviews with former contestants). And several outspoken contestants have discussed how unhealthy the program is with trainers and producers of the show telling them to ignore the advice of the doctors paid by the show to care for them during their time there.

    Utterly ridiculous that you would hold this show up as a healthy way to lose weight.
    The parameters in the OP are to lose 5lbs in a week without diet and exercise. I am sure that they do both on that show.

    @JeromeBarry1I think it is entirely possible for one to lose 5 pounds and more in a healthy manner. Each situation is unique.

    It's possible and healthy to lose 5 lbs per week?? That is a weekly caloric deficit of 17,500. I don't think so. If we are talking about the first couple weeks when water weight is coming off then fine, but to be healthy sustainable weekly loss???

    Again, going by the parameters in the OP, 5lbs in a week. It is very possible that a 400 pound 37 year old man eating 1300 calories per day could expect to safely lose 5 pounds in a week. That is considering diet alone. It is possible that he could lose even more if his activity level were increased. Each situation is unique. Is it sustainable? Maybe. There are a lot of factors that come into play as to whether or not it can be done safely.

    Not sustainable. On a long enough time line, no weight loss is sustainable. Eventually it will have to be some amount less, and chances are good one will lose lean mass if the deficit is above 31 calories per pound of current body fat per day.

    I get a 400 pounds and eating 1300 calories with a sedentary TDEE is about 4 pounds though.

    I might have my spreadsheet set to light activity. Interesting info about the 31 calories. If the guy is 40% bf, that would give him a window of around 5000 calories, right?

    ETA: Of course that percentage would probably bring down is expenditure as well.

    400 pound man is probably a lot more than 40% body fat - 60% lean mass would be 240 pounds of lean mass, that's pro bodybuilder stage weight levels. Though, even higher body fat means more would be oxidizable, assuming fat mass is the rate limiter for such an edge case compared to the research.
    http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/determining-the-maximum-dietary-deficit-for-fat-loss/
    ^ Lyle McDonald's take on this research:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    Minerbuff, since it's easy to jump to the supposition that you've never actually needed to lose 5 lb, I'll answer your question by saying that I can show you any episode of Biggest Loser and say "That's how to lose 5 lb in a week."

    Actually their "week of weight loss" is more like two weeks thanks to editing (going off of interviews with former contestants). And several outspoken contestants have discussed how unhealthy the program is with trainers and producers of the show telling them to ignore the advice of the doctors paid by the show to care for them during their time there.

    Utterly ridiculous that you would hold this show up as a healthy way to lose weight.
    The parameters in the OP are to lose 5lbs in a week without diet and exercise. I am sure that they do both on that show.

    @JeromeBarry1I think it is entirely possible for one to lose 5 pounds and more in a healthy manner. Each situation is unique.

    It's possible and healthy to lose 5 lbs per week?? That is a weekly caloric deficit of 17,500. I don't think so. If we are talking about the first couple weeks when water weight is coming off then fine, but to be healthy sustainable weekly loss???

    Again, going by the parameters in the OP, 5lbs in a week. It is very possible that a 400 pound 37 year old man eating 1300 calories per day could expect to safely lose 5 pounds in a week. That is considering diet alone. It is possible that he could lose even more if his activity level were increased. Each situation is unique. Is it sustainable? Maybe. There are a lot of factors that come into play as to whether or not it can be done safely.

    Oh, well you didn't mention such specific circumstances. I think the OP was talking about the general dieter who comes here and then looks for the magical (often dangerous) fixes to lose 5 lbs in a week. For the average dieter...not the morbid obese, it isn't practical nor healthy for one to lose 5 lbs a week. I don't think MFP picked 2 lbs as the max just on a whim.

    If anyone the average dieter thinks 5 lbs. a week is a doable sustainable, realistic, healthy goal then they have a rude awakening.

    FTFY

    Please don't change my words. Feel free to use your own, but I don't need someone else telling what I can and cannot say or thinking it is okay to censor me. Not cool.

    Really? Fine.

    1. I didn't censor you. Your words are still there. I'll go back and change my post.

    2. I in no way said you couldn't say that. I simply corrected you the same way that you correct many many others all over these boards. I just chose to do it in a more efficient way. I have seen the same technique used many times before here.

    SMH.
    edited March 2016
  • kommodevarankommodevaran Posts: 17,960Member Member Posts: 17,960Member Member
    I lost 45 pounds eating low fat :#
  • DorkothyParkerDorkothyParker Posts: 618Member Member Posts: 618Member Member
    When I suffered from anorexia, I was well aware of the dangers. (Granted, you never believe you are "sick enough"). I remembered one day I was late(ish) to work and I basically jogged to school and downed a cup of very thick instant coffee. As I was standing in front of the class, I began to feel woozy. My heart rate soared, my limbs and face went numb, I felt like I was going to throw up. I worried if this was how I was going to die. I ended up having to lie down in the teacher's room for the rest of my kindergarten classes (no coverage for my after school classes.) My coteachers kept coming in and offering me rice and other food.

    This was not when I sought help for my ED.

    So yes, people do unreasonable things and will surely risk health for weight loss.
  • EvgeniZyntxEvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,424Member Member Posts: 24,424Member Member
    shell1005 wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    Minerbuff, since it's easy to jump to the supposition that you've never actually needed to lose 5 lb, I'll answer your question by saying that I can show you any episode of Biggest Loser and say "That's how to lose 5 lb in a week."

    Actually their "week of weight loss" is more like two weeks thanks to editing (going off of interviews with former contestants). And several outspoken contestants have discussed how unhealthy the program is with trainers and producers of the show telling them to ignore the advice of the doctors paid by the show to care for them during their time there.

    Utterly ridiculous that you would hold this show up as a healthy way to lose weight.
    The parameters in the OP are to lose 5lbs in a week without diet and exercise. I am sure that they do both on that show.

    @JeromeBarry1I think it is entirely possible for one to lose 5 pounds and more in a healthy manner. Each situation is unique.

    It's possible and healthy to lose 5 lbs per week?? That is a weekly caloric deficit of 17,500. I don't think so. If we are talking about the first couple weeks when water weight is coming off then fine, but to be healthy sustainable weekly loss???

    Yes, it is.

    Context, as usual matters, making weight for an event and using specific methods like a Protein Sparing Modified Fast allows someone to lose 5 lbs in a week without health risks when carried out for a few weeks max. Also, for certain morbidly obese individuals that weight loss (at 2% of weight) may be accessible without issue.

    It is obviously not a sustainable weight loss nor does it necessarily translate into fat loss but certainly possible to do o in a responsible manner.

    Which is the crux of the issue. What is nutritionally possible with proper oversight may also result in critical health issues in another person. Recommending a 5lb per week loss is a no-go for that reason.
  • NorthCascadesNorthCascades Posts: 9,246Member Member Posts: 9,246Member Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Would you:

    Stand still while a car approached you at 25 miles an hour with no intention of stopping?

    No, but last fall I got hit by a car going 35 to 40 mph while I was doing hill repeats on my bike. The car ran a red light behind me, then I woke up in the street with some guy telling me I should get out of the road if I'm able to. Next thing I remember was sitting down on the sidewalk, I don't know how I got there. Spent the rest of that day and almost all of the next one in the hospital. The doctors kept telling me how lucky I was not to have broken anything, although I still have pain in my hip from the accident.

    I have 734 miles on my new bike (and 40,000 feet elevation gain), which I've had for two months.

    To be fair, though, I don't ride for weight loss. Health, fun, a way to deal with cabin fever, transportation (sometimes), etc. Calories are just the icing on the cake. But I'm tolerating my share of risk for all that.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member
    @ninerbuff hey you have a higher chance of getting killed by a toddler than a terrorist if you are american
    I believe that.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • ninerbuffninerbuff Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member
    Sugarbeat wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    People understand the risks behind your examples. They don't understand the risks behind rapid weight loss. The diet industry is largely at fault there, but lack of education on basic health science adds to the problem.
    Which is sad because health should be a priority to teach, especially now with so many people being overweight/obese even amongst children.
    I think I only had 1 overweight teacher growing up. The rest seemed "normal" even though I had no idea if they dieted or exercised.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    But "health" isn't what is so often promoted, its weight loss. A lot of people equate weight loss with good health. Quicker weight loss means better health faster. I'm not saying I agree with them, but that seems to be the train of thought I hear around me.
    Well the number 1 risk factor indicator is still someone's weight, so I can see how that train of thought rings true. However more people on here and other sites are losing weight for vanity reasons rather than health reasons. Thing is they aren't mutually exclusive. Someone who's in pretty good health, will usually have a decent physique.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • susanmc31susanmc31 Posts: 287Member Member Posts: 287Member Member

    *
    edited March 2016
  • DearestWinterDearestWinter Posts: 595Member Member Posts: 595Member Member
    People who want quick fixes are generally not interested in or realistic about the long term consequences. And even if they acknowledge those consequences many are in denial about the possibility that something bad would happen to them.

    Easiest example - jaywalkers. They want to cross the street quickly. They may be aware that there's a greater risk a car will hit them if they cross the street at that time but they don't think being hit by a car is something that would really happen to them. (And if it has happened to them before then it wouldn't actually happen again.)

    And maybe these quick fix dieters are also jaywalkers and they were right not to worry about the risks of quick-fix diet because a truck kills them when they cross the street against the light. Who knows?

    (That was a bit morbid. Apologies!)
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Sugarbeat wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    People understand the risks behind your examples. They don't understand the risks behind rapid weight loss. The diet industry is largely at fault there, but lack of education on basic health science adds to the problem.
    Which is sad because health should be a priority to teach, especially now with so many people being overweight/obese even amongst children.
    I think I only had 1 overweight teacher growing up. The rest seemed "normal" even though I had no idea if they dieted or exercised.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    But "health" isn't what is so often promoted, its weight loss. A lot of people equate weight loss with good health. Quicker weight loss means better health faster. I'm not saying I agree with them, but that seems to be the train of thought I hear around me.
    Well the number 1 risk factor indicator is still someone's weight, so I can see how that train of thought rings true. However more people on here and other sites are losing weight for vanity reasons rather than health reasons. Thing is they aren't mutually exclusive. Someone who's in pretty good health, will usually have a decent physique.


    I did it for vanity reasons and only got the health benefits. I'm still looking into who I demand my caloric refund from.
  • coreyreichlecoreyreichle Posts: 1,039Member Member Posts: 1,039Member Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    People understand the risks behind your examples. They don't understand the risks behind rapid weight loss. The diet industry is largely at fault there, but lack of education on basic health science adds to the problem.
    Which is sad because health should be a priority to teach, especially now with so many people being overweight/obese even amongst children.
    I think I only had 1 overweight teacher growing up. The rest seemed "normal" even though I had no idea if they dieted or exercised.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I just can't buy into the lack of education as a reason for overweight or obesity. Ask a 3rd grader why someone is fat and they will say that person eats too much.

    How many people think they can down 4 slices of pizza, because they ran a couple of miles? Or, that they've earned a 6 pack of beer because they did some yard work?

    Sure, it's easy enough to figure out if someone is fat, they eat/ate too much. Most people have no idea what "too much" is. People say I'm starving myself on a 2000 calorie a day diet...
  • LounmounLounmoun Posts: 8,433Member Member Posts: 8,433Member Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Would you:

    Stand still while a car approached you at 25 miles an hour with no intention of stopping?
    Jump off a 10ft platform and hit the ground?
    Let your toddler play unattended on a playground?
    Juggle knives?

    I assuming most would say "NO" to the above. But for some reason you say "Hey I can show you how to lose 5lbs in a week without dieting and exercise!" all bets go out the window. People are willing to shell out and take risks they normally wouldn't to lose 10lbs.

    Discuss.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    When I started trying to lose weight 15 years ago I didn't really know how to do it. I did some things that were uncomfortable and unsustainable but not actually damaging thankfully. I didn't necessarily want to lose weight rapidly and did not shell out loads of money on shakes or pills but did read a few weight loss books by doctors that never once mentioned calories and promised easy weight loss with their diet. They made fast weight loss seem normal and right because they had the success stories. I feel stupid now for not just counting calories.
    I hope people who come here figure out that they don't need to suffer, starve or shell out a lot of money. They only need to eat the right number of calories for them and there are free tools to help them do that.

    Btw, in school my overweight teachers were the female physical education teachers.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member Posts: 42,538Member, Greeter Member
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Would you:

    Stand still while a car approached you at 25 miles an hour with no intention of stopping?
    Jump off a 10ft platform and hit the ground?
    Let your toddler play unattended on a playground?
    Juggle knives?

    I assuming most would say "NO" to the above. But for some reason you say "Hey I can show you how to lose 5lbs in a week without dieting and exercise!" all bets go out the window. People are willing to shell out and take risks they normally wouldn't to lose 10lbs.

    Discuss.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    When I started trying to lose weight 15 years ago I didn't really know how to do it. I did some things that were uncomfortable and unsustainable but not actually damaging thankfully. I didn't necessarily want to lose weight rapidly and did not shell out loads of money on shakes or pills but did read a few weight loss books by doctors that never once mentioned calories and promised easy weight loss with their diet. They made fast weight loss seem normal and right because they had the success stories. I feel stupid now for not just counting calories.
    I hope people who come here figure out that they don't need to suffer, starve or shell out a lot of money. They only need to eat the right number of calories for them and there are free tools to help them do that.

    Btw, in school my overweight teachers were the female physical education teachers.
    I was lucky. In all my PE classes my instructors were pretty fit. One was a competing natural bodybuilder (Steve McCarl) and I got some good instruction on lifting from him. Possibly may be one of the reasons I got into bodybuilding (along with the numerous comic book heroes I worshipped at the time).

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • kimny72kimny72 Posts: 14,109Member Member Posts: 14,109Member Member
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I believe you are only as uneducated as you choose to be. Of course it means swimming against the tide of all those weight loss myths and woo...trying to make money off your desperate desire to lose weight and the ignorance of all those weight loss myths. However knowledge is power. I laugh at those informercials now. I see the truth in them and know that my weight and my fitness are in no one's hands but my own.

    IKR??? I used to fall for all that stuff, and now that I know better, it seems so... obvious.
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