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Did You / Would You Vax Your Child?
Replies
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As someone who is immunesuppressed and will probably be for the rest of my life from meds I really appreciate people getting vaccines!13
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On infant death rate:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-american-babies-die/381008/The effects of socioeconomic status on health have been well-documented, and infant mortality is no exception: Unsurprisingly, the states with the highest rates are also among the poorest. “If Alabama were a country, its rate of 8.7 infant deaths per 1,000 would place it slightly behind Lebanon in the world rankings,” Christopher Ingraham recently noted in The Washington Post, while “Mississippi, with its 9.6 deaths, would be somewhere between Botswana and Bahrain.”
When the researchers took socioeconomic status into account, they found no significant difference in mortality across the three countries among babies born to wealthy, well-educated women. Lower down the socioeconomic ladder, though, the differences became stark; children of poor minority women in the U.S. were much more likely to die within their first year than children born to similar mothers in other countries.
http://sm.stanford.edu/archive/stanmed/2013fall/article2.htmlFive main causes of mortality play into the statistics for babies under a year old: birth defects, sudden infant death syndrome, maternal health complications, unintentional injuries and preterm-related causes of death. But when scientists, including Wise and MacDorman, have crunched the numbers on infant mortality, they find that one factor is the biggest difference maker between the United States and other industrialized countries: premature births.
The poor infant-survival rates in the United States are intrinsically linked to high rates of preterm births, those that occur when a woman is between 22 and 37 weeks pregnant, rather than full-term — 37 to 41 weeks. And the same socioeconomic divides seen in infant mortality rates are seen with preterm birth rates — mothers who are African American, live in certain states or experience high levels of emotional stress during their pregnancy are more likely to give birth preterm. And although fertility treatments and teenage pregnancies both raise the risk of preterm births, neither explains the diversity in infant mortality rates — states with high infant mortality have no higher rates of either.
In fact, the analysis published in 2009 by MacDorman and her colleagues at the CDC found that if the United States had the same rate of preterm births as Sweden, our infant mortality rate would be 33 percent lower. Instead of six deaths per 1,000 births, it would be four, closer to Sweden’s rate of three per 1,000....
In the United States, almost one in eight babies is born between 22 and 37 weeks’ gestation. That’s nearly the highest rate in the industrialized world — second only to Cyprus. The U.S. prematurity rate is double that of Finland, Japan, Norway and Sweden, according to the 2013 report by Save the Children.
At any given gestational age, doctors in the United States are as good as doctors in other developed countries at keeping babies alive.
“If you look at a baby born at 25 weeks in the United States and any other developed country, we do really well,” says neonatologist Philip Sunshine, MD, who has cared for more than 30,000 premature babies during his career at Stanford and Packard Children’s. “We have the technology and we have the resources.”...
It goes on. Poverty is related to higher rates of pre-term births, as is being single (in the US), and diabetes. Also substance abuse, of course, and smoking.
So if you want to blame the obesity rate, there's one connection -- diabetes.
I think you almost certainly have to look at different access to medical care and different cultural approaches (whether pregnant women are encouraged to see a doctor regularly and know they should).4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »People who do not vaccinate their children should be locked away for child endangerment. It's one thing to let your ignorance and massive stupidity have an effect on your own life, but quite another to make that same decision for a child.
het.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/04/0960327111407644.full.pdf+html
@OneHundredToLose what are we as parents in the USA doing wrong that makes us rank dead last out of 34 developed countries at keeping our infants from dying. It can not be that we are making them obese that much faster than the other 33 nations. Are you aware it is often the parents with advanced/terminal degrees in science and healthcare that have vaccination concerns of their infants?
What point are you trying to make here? I think you should state it straight out. Are you actually taking the position that people should not vaccinate or that vaccinating has some negative relationship to infant mortality in the US (which would make no sense)?
It was a question as to what factors may be involved. I have not read any research that vaccinations are bumping up death rates. From the news we know vaccination damage does not necessary result in death. I truly do not know why in the USA we spend so much $$$ compared to many other developed nations and have lower quality health across the board per some sources. High infant deaths are just hard to accept but they greatly improved for years.
Your above links are very helpful as to the high USA infant death rates. I had not thought about the diabetes connection. Thanks
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GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »People who do not vaccinate their children should be locked away for child endangerment. It's one thing to let your ignorance and massive stupidity have an effect on your own life, but quite another to make that same decision for a child.
het.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/04/0960327111407644.full.pdf+html
@OneHundredToLose what are we as parents in the USA doing wrong that makes us rank dead last out of 34 developed countries at keeping our infants from dying. It can not be that we are making them obese that much faster than the other 33 nations. Are you aware it is often the parents with advanced/terminal degrees in science and healthcare that have vaccination concerns of their infants?
What point are you trying to make here? I think you should state it straight out. Are you actually taking the position that people should not vaccinate or that vaccinating has some negative relationship to infant mortality in the US (which would make no sense)?
It was a question as to what factors may be involved. I have not read any research that vaccinations are bumping up death rates. From the news we know vaccination damage does not necessary result in death. I truly do not know why in the USA we spend so much $$$ compared to many other developed nations and have lower quality health across the board per some sources. High infant deaths are just hard to accept but they greatly improved for years.
Check out the links I gave you.
It seems odd to bring it into this thread if that's not what you are trying to say. Insinuating a connection strikes me as irresponsible (as does the anti vax stuff in general--I don't really think it's an appropriate discussion to have on MFP).
As for health care, kind of hard to have a non-political discussion of that although I would be open to trying.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »People who do not vaccinate their children should be locked away for child endangerment. It's one thing to let your ignorance and massive stupidity have an effect on your own life, but quite another to make that same decision for a child.
het.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/04/0960327111407644.full.pdf+html
@OneHundredToLose what are we as parents in the USA doing wrong that makes us rank dead last out of 34 developed countries at keeping our infants from dying. It can not be that we are making them obese that much faster than the other 33 nations. Are you aware it is often the parents with advanced/terminal degrees in science and healthcare that have vaccination concerns of their infants?
What point are you trying to make here? I think you should state it straight out. Are you actually taking the position that people should not vaccinate or that vaccinating has some negative relationship to infant mortality in the US (which would make no sense)?
It was a question as to what factors may be involved. I have not read any research that vaccinations are bumping up death rates. From the news we know vaccination damage does not necessary result in death. I truly do not know why in the USA we spend so much $$$ compared to many other developed nations and have lower quality health across the board per some sources. High infant deaths are just hard to accept but they greatly improved for years.
Check out the links I gave you.
It seems odd to bring it into this thread if that's not what you are trying to say. Insinuating a connection strikes me as irresponsible (as does the anti vax stuff in general--I don't really think it's an appropriate discussion to have on MFP).
As for health care, kind of hard to have a non-political discussion of that although I would be open to trying.
The links are great. Yes I agree. As we can read most places the vax questions do not come up because it has been settled politically already in many countries as is some diet considerations.0 -
Reimagining wrote: »“Ignorant non-vaccinators”? Wow Positivepowers, you sure area a negative caregiver. The WHO’s mission involves global concerns, with no concern for your individual child. Here is a study for you.
Medical Model Errors
Preventable medical errors by doctors and nurses persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year.
So as you can guess, I did not vaccinate my kids. They are now healthy, lean, nice young men who participated in school, sports and anything else they desired. My decision was based on much study and research. It was not an “ignorant” choice. Ignorant would have been me blindly following orders. I do not judge those who decided to vaccinate their kids. We are all doing what we believe is best.
My oldest kid got vaccinated two weeks ago. He is starting college and elected to get the shots. He is going into nursing. I hope his experiences help him to be a little more open-minded and kind than some others here.- That 400k/year estimate is from one study, and not one considered very credible. A more credible estimate is 90,000. And this includes "hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death". This will include people who's cause of death was from other causes but a mistake in diagnosis or treatment contributed to their death, i.e. they would have died anyway if they had not gone to the hospital at all.
- How much higher do you think the death rate from other causes would be if people avoided medical care altogether?
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I absolutely would! As many have already stated, the scientific results have been factually proven repeatedly over the last century. The incidence of proven deaths caused by vaccinations is miniscule compared to the incidence of death from the diseases they prevent. Also, you can't ignore that NOT vaccinating your child puts other children at risk as well. For some, it may be a matter of personal preference. For others, vaccinations are delayed out of medical necessity (cancer treatments, etc, where the immune system is suppressed.) While some may be comfortable with the increased chances of their child contracting a debilitating disease that may kill their child. How comfortable are they with putting someone else's children at risk? Speaking only for myself, the proven benefits of vaccinations outweigh the unproven claims of their opposition.5
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And yes, if I had kids, I'd absolutely vaccinate them for anything required or recommended by our doctor, just as I do for myself. It's about giving them the best odds. The odds that a vaccine will save their lives or significantly improve quality of life is far, far greater than the odds it will shorten or worsen their quality of life.
Like anything, there's no certainties. All you can do is give them the best chance, and vaccines offer better chances than not.4 -
Yes, we did and the wife and I keep up on our own vaccinations.
My dad had polio growing up. He (obviously) survived but it limited his physical abilities.
And, since myself and my boys have asthma, something like the flu can turn deadly for us.
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For those who have mentioned the HPV vaccination - I will certainly have my children vaccinated for this as well. HPV causes cervical cancer, and it is so preventable. HPV is extremely common. According to the CDC, "... nearly all sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives." http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm
Cervical cancer is a horrible cancer to have, especially in the advanced stages. It can also be difficult and painful to treat once it is contracted. It's an excruciating and slow way to go, and if the HPV vaccination lowers young girls' risks of getting it, that in itself is a huge benefit. No one should have to suffer needlessly from a preventable disease such as cervical cancer.3 -
I think when one mixes $$$, personal vs. community rights, religion, medical and politics we can expect confusion.
Doctors should know what is best but there is disagreement from that department as well it seems.
healthimpactnews.com/2014/doctors-against-vaccines-the-other-side-of-the-story-is-not-being-told/
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My maternal grandfather lived through polio but was handicapped by it. My paternal grandmother got the measels while pregnant with my father, who was born deaf in his right ear. I was born and raised in a third world country and was vaccinated as it was a regulation. You're damn skippy I vaccinate my children. There is no question.5
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Yes. Both my kids get vaccinated at the recommended times.0
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I vaccinate myself and my children because I believe in taking advantage of medical advancement in order to avoid unnecessary diseases, because I believe very strongly in the concept of herd immunity to protect some who are unable to vaccinate themselves/their children (a couple of good examples above) and because the herd immunity is the best way to eradicate these diseases once and for all.
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I don't have kids yet but when I do I will have them vaccinated. I also had a whooping cough vax when my nephew was born to help protect him from me. I do think that having multiple vaccines all at one time can be tough on an infant's immune system and may opt to spread them out a bit, but my kids will absolutely be vaccinated.0
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I line up for any vaccine available. It's the most natural illness prevention method available. After all, all it's doing is priming our body's natural defenses. I get the flu shot every year, got the H1N1, and vaccine to prevent bacterial Pneumonia.
I often wonder what it is about vaccine specifically that scares people. Is it the white lab coats? Approved of by mainstream medicine and science? The very idea of a NEEDLE?
Not the lab coats, not the needle... for whatever unexplained reason I have this idea that what they say is in that shot isn't really in it... or what if the dose is stronger than what they think... I don't know.. BUT I understand it is pretty irrational for me to think that way and I get vaccinations and flu shots anyways because I have young children and they attend daycare so we all need to be as protected as possible. Plus my boyfriend/kids dad has a compromised immune system so if we get ill he could get very sick quite easily.
My children are vaccinated also.1 -
All three of mine have their main vaccinations...no concerns.0
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daryan1203 wrote: »CADAVER0USB0N3S wrote: »They amount of vaccines given to children has dramatically increased over the last 20 years
This gets thrown around a lot with the implication that it's a bad thing, but I really don't see why. I guess it just sounds bad so people assume it is bad. But ultimately this kind of thinking is dangerous and leads to people being anti-vaccine.
Every vaccine you get has the potential for causing a nasty reaction. So you don't want to be getting things you don't need or aren't particularly effective if the disease is not a particular risk to you.
Where I live, I'm not going to be exposed to Chagas disease. The vector doesn't live here. If there were a vaccine for it (there's not) I wouldn't get it.
I'd prefer not to get the flu vaccine either because it's not terribly effective (relatively poor sero-conversion rate, and can be designed for wrong strains that year), I haven't gotten the flu in so long I can't even remember the last time, I have no risk factors for the flu being anything more than a couple of days of yuck, and I don't associate closely with anyone who is immunologically impaired. Plus, most forms of the vaccine give me a mild but painful reaction. But, it's required at my job so I get it regardless. And, I recommend it for the young, elderly, immunocompromised, and those who are in close contact with populations for whom flu would be particularly dangerous, etc.
I get all recommended vaccines for my region of the world if I'm in an at risk population and my kids would, too if I had any.
I wonder how many of the people who are anti-vax have pets. There are very definite negative consequences for certain vaccines in cats and dogs - vaccine associated sarcoma (feline injection site sarcoma) - that don't seem to have an analog in humans. Though I'll admit to never hearing 'I'll get cancer' as a reason to not vaccinate. Yet.1 -
chelsy0587 wrote: »I line up for any vaccine available. It's the most natural illness prevention method available. After all, all it's doing is priming our body's natural defenses. I get the flu shot every year, got the H1N1, and vaccine to prevent bacterial Pneumonia.
I often wonder what it is about vaccine specifically that scares people. Is it the white lab coats? Approved of by mainstream medicine and science? The very idea of a NEEDLE?
Not the lab coats, not the needle... (1)for whatever unexplained reason I have this idea that what they say is in that shot isn't really in it... (2)or what if the dose is stronger than what they think... I don't know.. BUT I understand it is pretty irrational for me to think that way and I get vaccinations and flu shots anyways because I have young children and they attend daycare so we all need to be as protected as possible. Plus my boyfriend/kids dad has a compromised immune system so if we get ill he could get very sick quite easily.
My children are vaccinated also.
(1) What would they have to gain from lying? IF that were the case (which it is not), if they were to be found out (which they would), it would be a huge deal and could risk the reputations of the companies that produce the vaccines as well as the scientists who study them. That would be detrimental to everyone's health, since more people would distrust ALL vaccines and we would have even more outbreaks of these diseases and more deaths as a result.
(2) Vaccines are possibly the most studied medicines on the planet. They are administered in meticulously measured, controlled doses. Why on earth would you think they would be more potent "than what they think"? That idea is a disservice to the people who have dedicated years of their lives to researching vaccines and the diseases they prevent.
Your concerns are needless and spread fear and suspicion around something that should not be feared.
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Christine_72 wrote: »I vaccinated both my kids.
Here in Australia they've brought in a law, no vaccs= no government benefits.
A little baby died here the other week from whooping cough, apparently caught from an unvaccinated child
When I was pregnant with my daughter, I enrolled in a study the hospital was running to protect newborns from Whooping cough. I was vaccinated at 34 weeks with the DTaP vaccination. The study shows that vaccinating the mother increases the immunity of the baby as it's transferred in utero and continued in breast milk. Babies are not given their first needles until 2 months in Nova Scotia, Canada so it was nice to have the bridge and know that she was a little more protected.5 -
myheartsabattleground wrote: »I most certainly would! Growing up, you weren't allowed to attend school or participate in intramurals without proof that you "had all your shots."
Is there a link between vax and asd / downs? MAYBE
Has it been 100% Proven? NOPE
Are there blatantly ignorant people wasting air? YESSIR
Study after study has shown no link to autism. And downs is a chromosomal disorder.
Yes, my kids are vaccinated.
I agree there is no direct established link between autism and vaccinations. Never the less most of us have been touched by autism one way or another. Here is a doctor at a recent medical convention talking about autism research going on at this time. It does seem to be diet related at least in part.
https://youtu.be/cw4vbkD9lIg0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »I most certainly would! Growing up, you weren't allowed to attend school or participate in intramurals without proof that you "had all your shots."
Is there a link between vax and asd / downs? MAYBE
Has it been 100% Proven? NOPE
Are there blatantly ignorant people wasting air? YESSIR
Study after study has shown no link to autism. And downs is a chromosomal disorder.
Yes, my kids are vaccinated.
I agree there is no direct established link between autism and vaccinations. Never the less most of us have been touched by autism one way or another. Here is a doctor at a recent medical convention talking about autism research going on at this time. It does seem to be diet related at least in part.
https://youtu.be/cw4vbkD9lIg
How is this related to vaccines? At all?
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Reimagining wrote: »“Ignorant non-vaccinators”? Wow Positivepowers, you sure area a negative caregiver. The WHO’s mission involves global concerns, with no concern for your individual child. Here is a study for you.
Medical Model Errors
Preventable medical errors by doctors and nurses persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year.
So as you can guess, I did not vaccinate my kids. They are now healthy, lean, nice young men who participated in school, sports and anything else they desired. My decision was based on much study and research. It was not an “ignorant” choice. Ignorant would have been me blindly following orders. I do not judge those who decided to vaccinate their kids. We are all doing what we believe is best.
My oldest kid got vaccinated two weeks ago. He is starting college and elected to get the shots. He is going into nursing. I hope his experiences help him to be a little more open-minded and kind than some others here.
What does medical errors have to do with vaccines? Medical errors are in reference to administering the wrong medication, or amputating the wrong limb, that kinda stuff.
I have a friend who had polio as a child from living in an orphanage in India where vaccines were not available. The lasting affects of the illness are devasting to her. It's a horrible illness, and if society can irradicate it through a simple vaccine, why shouldn't they? Unless some people like experiencing the wasting of their limbs?3 -
Sorry to double post, but I forgot to add that, yes, I vaccinated my children. I stay up to date on my own vaccinations, especially my annual flu shot.
I also make sure my dogs are vaccinated - believe it or not, the ideas behind antivaccination are now starting to infiltrate the veterinary world. Yeah, there are people even choosing not to vaccinate their pets for rabies - it is quite alarming!
Choosing never to vaccinate your pets for rabies is very bad. But, choosing to not get the later in life rabies vaccine is not. Current rabies vaccines once properly given and boosted, confer immunity for years (if it ever sero-converted; and if it didn't you could give the vaccine until the cows come home and they wouldn't be immune). Current evidence suggests the immunity is conferred for life, but that's not yet generally accepted. Plus, rabies is one of the vaccines with potentially really nasty reactions.
Once my exclusively indoor cats get to be seniors, I don't give them rabies vax anymore. Once the dog, who's on a 3-year program, gets to be a senior I'll probably take him off, too. But, since he goes outside, I'd be checking his immunity with regular antibody titers.0 -
Granted, this graphic is about a decade old so the numbers are a bit off due to the upswing in the anti-vax movement but even accounting for that I do not understand how anyone rational could look at it and still claim that vaccines are a bad thing
As for my, yes I am vaccinated. Hell, I have had vaccines the general public does not generally get (how many of you have had prophylactic rabies vaccines??) simply because there is small but not insignificant chance of me possibly being exposed and the ounce of prevention is worth it to me.4 -
Reimagining wrote: »“Ignorant non-vaccinators”? Wow Positivepowers, you sure area a negative caregiver. The WHO’s mission involves global concerns, with no concern for your individual child. Here is a study for you.
Medical Model Errors
Preventable medical errors by doctors and nurses persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year.
So as you can guess, I did not vaccinate my kids. They are now healthy, lean, nice young men who participated in school, sports and anything else they desired. My decision was based on much study and research. It was not an “ignorant” choice. Ignorant would have been me blindly following orders. I do not judge those who decided to vaccinate their kids. We are all doing what we believe is best.
My oldest kid got vaccinated two weeks ago. He is starting college and elected to get the shots. He is going into nursing. I hope his experiences help him to be a little more open-minded and kind than some others here.
Judge those of us who vaccinate? You should be thanking us. Because most of us vaccinate, your children were protected by herd immunity. And there are many who have to depend on immunity because they cannot be vaccinated. Those who don't vaccinated put them at risk.5 -
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FunkyTobias wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »myheartsabattleground wrote: »I most certainly would! Growing up, you weren't allowed to attend school or participate in intramurals without proof that you "had all your shots."
Is there a link between vax and asd / downs? MAYBE
Has it been 100% Proven? NOPE
Are there blatantly ignorant people wasting air? YESSIR
Study after study has shown no link to autism. And downs is a chromosomal disorder.
Yes, my kids are vaccinated.
I agree there is no direct established link between autism and vaccinations. Never the less most of us have been touched by autism one way or another. Here is a doctor at a recent medical convention talking about autism research going on at this time. It does seem to be diet related at least in part.
https://youtu.be/cw4vbkD9lIg
How is this related to vaccines? At all?
It supports the quoted post. There is no medical research that I have reviewed that draws a connection between autism and vaccinations in a direct provable way. There is medical research showing diet/gut microbes seem to play a role as one cause as to why our kids may develop autism and how diet may help mange it like other neurological medical issues.1 -
I can see both sides of the vaccination equation. My kids are vaccinated but we do so on an individual shot basis rather than the combo ones now. I firmly believe that the MMR did "something" to my now 17 year old son. Before kindergarten (or around that time), he was still getting the combo shots. His personality changed afterward. He went from bubbly and inquisitive to quiet and almost mute for a while. He did not have any autistic tendencies before kindergarten and that last set of combo shots. Now, he has a formal diagnosis of Aspergers and an anxiety disorder. We finally started homeschooling him after elementary school due to too many issues. Today, he is still quiet but is somewhat normal socially (at least at first introduction). It is only when you are around him a while that you truly see something "off." We learned from his issues and stopped the combo shots with his younger brother.
Our family does not take the flu shot. I am 44 and have never had the flu and neither have my kids. My hubby has only had the flu those times in the Navy when the flu shot was a requirement. When my mother got the shot, she got the flu. She had to get the shot when she was a teacher. 4 years ago, she retired so she stopped getting the flu shot. Guess what? She has not had the flu since! I work with a nonprofit that deals with young boys so I have been around 200+ boys each week for about 17 years. About 10 years ago, I started keeping records of when the boys got sick. It seems that a whopping 93% of the boys who got the flu shot ended up getting the flu. Yeah, this is purely anecdotal but it has been consistent for ten years now!
I evaluate on a case by case basis and for the most part am pro-vaccine - with some caveats like the single shot at a time versus the combo shots.3 -
You cannot get the flu from the flu shot. It is an inactivated virus. The nasal spray, otoh, is a live virus, and it is theoretically possible to get the flu from that, but that is very rare. More than likely, if 93% of the boys you deal with who got the flu shot also got the flu, that means either
1. They had a really bad cold that they reported as the "flu" or
2. They contracted the flu before their shot took effect (takes 7-14 days for influenza to incubate, and two weeks for the shot to reach full effectiveness) or
3. They happened to get a strain of influenza that that year's shot wasn't protecting against or
4. 78% of statistics are made up on the spot
I'm betting on a combination of all of the above. But mostly numbers 1 and 4.
Fwiw - I never got the flu shot until I was 28 years old. Never had the flu. Been getting the flu shot yearly since then. Still never had the flu. So long as we're doing informal "studies".5
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