Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Did You / Would You Vax Your Child?
Replies
-
I'm just going to add this: I rarely get the flu, and primarily got it when I was a kid (before flu shots existed), though it might have just been really bad head colds (with vomiting). I get the flu shot every year now because it doesn't cost me anything. If I switched employers / health insurance, I would still at least look into whether they would pay for it and what it would cost me out of pocket. If it is not too expensive ($15, let's say), I'll get it even if it isn't free.
Interesting fact to throw in here: I've had DNA analysis done and am genetically immune to a common strain of norovirus. So for all of my genetic deficiencies (HLA genes on chromosome 6 that gave me auto-immune diseases like type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's), I have an advantage somewhere in there.3 -
Everyone here is going to get sued by their children for releasing their medical history without their permission.4
-
I've had DNA analysis done and am genetically immune to a common strain of norovirus.
Gah, I wish my kids had this gene. I hate norovirus.0 -
benjaminhk wrote: »Everyone here is going to get sued by their children for releasing their medical history without their permission.
Haha... my kids will never exist. So I guess aside from having more money and less stress, I can add not getting sued as a benefit to being childfree.1 -
Vaccinations while not without known risks are relative safe and some are extremely effective in the minds of most everyone. Since 1988 only $3.3 millions have been paid out in approved claims of vaccination harm.
hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/index.html
"According to the CDC, from 2006 to 2014 over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. For petitions filed in this time period, 3,422 petitions were adjudicated by the Court, and of those 2,173 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.
Since 1988, over 16,878 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 14,497 petitions have been adjudicated, with 4,582 of those determined to be compensable, while 9,915 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.3 billion"
For the first 18 years of life (through high school) if one takes all 69 doses their odds of successful receiving monetary damages is 1 in 14,492. The odds of having damage from vaccinations are unknown. The fact is at best for the good of the herd some parents pay a huge price and often in more than one way perhaps for the next 60 years.
That boils down to parents collecting $$$ on 1 out of 5390 kids due to vaccination 0-18 years of age. It sounds small if you have 10 kids but it is a huge price to pay if you only have one child if yours is that 1 out of 5390 that proved damages/death to be rewarded cash.
All I am saying we need to be sensitive to the parents who may pay for a lifetime to protect the kids of others.
0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think when one mixes $$$, personal vs. community rights, religion, medical and politics we can expect confusion.
Doctors should know what is best but there is disagreement from that department as well it seems.
healthimpactnews.com/2014/doctors-against-vaccines-the-other-side-of-the-story-is-not-being-told/
Isn't Dr. Oz against vaccinations? That should be a clue to anyone, that they should be vaccinated; since he believes in cleanses.
What Dr. Oz is against I do not know. It it my subjective view Dr. Oz is FOR making money in showbiz.1 -
Just so you know some kids can still get it even when they are vaccinated! Look it up on the vac site or ask your doctor. I know because my daughter did! and I couldn't believe all the nasty comments about me not vaccinating. ...but I did! I believe she didn't get it as bad but she did get it with a shot!Christine_72 wrote: »I vaccinated both my kids.
Here in Australia they've brought in a law, no vaccs= no government benefits.
A little baby died here the other week from whooping cough, apparently caught from an unvaccinated child
Just fyi2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Reimagining wrote: »“Ignorant non-vaccinators”? Wow Positivepowers, you sure area a negative caregiver. The WHO’s mission involves global concerns, with no concern for your individual child. Here is a study for you.
Medical Model Errors
Preventable medical errors by doctors and nurses persist as the No. 3 killer in the U.S. – third only to heart disease and cancer – claiming the lives of some 400,000 people each year.
So as you can guess, I did not vaccinate my kids. They are now healthy, lean, nice young men who participated in school, sports and anything else they desired. My decision was based on much study and research. It was not an “ignorant” choice. Ignorant would have been me blindly following orders. I do not judge those who decided to vaccinate their kids. We are all doing what we believe is best.
My oldest kid got vaccinated two weeks ago. He is starting college and elected to get the shots. He is going into nursing. I hope his experiences help him to be a little more open-minded and kind than some others here.
How would you feel if one of your kids got whooping cough and infected an unvaccinated baby, and the baby died? This is exactly what happened here a few weeks ago..
Read my post. Vaccinated kids can get it and spread it!2 -
Both kids are fully vaccinated and we make sure we get our flu shots as well.0
-
antennachick wrote: »
Just so you know some kids can still get it even when they are vaccinated! Look it up on the vac site or ask your doctor. I know because my daughter did! and I couldn't believe all the nasty comments about me not vaccinating. ...but I did! I believe she didn't get it as bad but she did get it with a shot!Christine_72 wrote: »I vaccinated both my kids.
Here in Australia they've brought in a law, no vaccs= no government benefits.
A little baby died here the other week from whooping cough, apparently caught from an unvaccinated child
Just fyi
No vaccine is or can be 100% effective if for no other reason than that there are people whose immune systems are incapable of generating the correct response. It doesn't mean you avoid a vaccine because you might be one of those people.
If you already know you are, which generally means you DID receive the vaccine and failed to sero-convert in the absence of another immunocompromising condition, that's a different story.0 -
if i ever reproduce my kid will not be vaccinated1
-
CADAVER0USB0N3S wrote: »They amount of vaccines given to children has dramatically increased over the last 20 years and ...
... and life expectancy has gone up over the past 20 years, and childhood mortality has gone down.4 -
NorthCascades wrote: »CADAVER0USB0N3S wrote: »They amount of vaccines given to children has dramatically increased over the last 20 years and ...
... and life expectancy has gone up over the past 20 years, and childhood mortality has gone down.
Mic drop1 -
antennachick wrote: »
Just so you know some kids can still get it even when they are vaccinated! Look it up on the vac site or ask your doctor. I know because my daughter did! and I couldn't believe all the nasty comments about me not vaccinating. ...but I did! I believe she didn't get it as bad but she did get it with a shot!Christine_72 wrote: »I vaccinated both my kids.
Here in Australia they've brought in a law, no vaccs= no government benefits.
A little baby died here the other week from whooping cough, apparently caught from an unvaccinated child
Just fyi
@antennachick you make a factual point. Below are cases that makes your medical point officially.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/01/26/whooping-cough-vaccine-ineffective.aspx
"Up to Half of Vaccinated Preschoolers Were Infected With Whooping Cough
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently featured an article in Emerging Infectious Diseases that highlighted the transmission of whooping cough among vaccinated children.1
The outbreak occurred at a Tallahassee, Florida preschool in 2013. Twenty-six students between the ages of 1 and 5 contracted whooping cough, as did two staff and 11 family members. The majority of the students were fully vaccinated against whooping cough according to the CDC's recommended schedule."
The link below is for anti doctor website types that can find the same above info if a free Medscape account is handy.
medscape.org/viewarticle/856912
"California Whooping Cough Outbreak Also Occurred Among a Highly Vaccinated Community
In 2014, a whooping cough outbreak spread through Elk Grove, California, a community in which all but 80 of the suburb's 4,500 kindergartners were vaccinated. Even still, the county had rates of whooping cough that were up to five times higher than surrounding areas.4
Health officials in the area expressed concern that the vaccine is not protecting children as it should be and suggested its protection lasts only two to three years."
Another source for the above quote. cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6348a2.htm
"90 Percent of Whooping Cough Cases in Vermont Occurred Among Vaccinated Children
Yet another example of the pertussis vaccine's questionable effectiveness came from a wave of cases that occurred in Vermont in 2012.
Of nearly 200 cases reported in Vermont children, 90 percent had received at least one dose of the pertussis vaccine, and most had received five or six doses.8"
Another source for the above quote. vtdigger.org/2012/10/08/90-percent-of-whooping-cough-cases-in-vermont-among-vaccinated-children/
Folks if you have interest please Google and read on the subject of the effective rates against different types of diseases. It is not the right of another on social media to tell a parent to or not to vaccinate. We did that in the doctor's office with the pediatrician looking at all of the facts and modified accordingly. When you read and understand the lack of protection post vaccinations/immunization some of you will be better able to judge the validity of SM posts. There is nothing black and white in a medical sense today on this subject you will come to understand I expect.0 -
Mercola? Really?1
-
FunkyTobias wrote: »Mercola? Really?
FunkyTobias you can read all of the sources that Dr. Mercola used in making his points just like the rest. I did not post the other sources by accident.
Would you like to share the area(s) of your advanced/terminal degrees so we can better grasp where you are coming from. This is for a few readers a serious subject because of the failure of the system to protect the community as it was once thought to protect. Yes we have come a long way in protecting the whole community but we are not there yet with needed understanding and technology.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »Mercola? Really?
FunkyTobias you can read all of the sources that Dr. Mercola used in making his points just like the rest. I did not post the other sources by accident.
Would you like to share the area(s) of your advanced/terminal degrees so we can better grasp where you are coming from. This is for a few readers a serious subject because of the failure of the system to protect the community as it was once thought to protect. Yes we have come a long way in protecting the whole community but we are not there yet with needed understanding and technology.
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
Just Quack slamming.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »Mercola? Really?
FunkyTobias you can read all of the sources that Dr. Mercola used in making his points just like the rest. I did not post the other sources by accident.
Would you like to share the area(s) of your advanced/terminal degrees so we can better grasp where you are coming from. This is for a few readers a serious subject because of the failure of the system to protect the community as it was once thought to protect. Yes we have come a long way in protecting the whole community but we are not there yet with needed understanding and technology.
Because Mercola is a quack!!!!
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html1 -
I have never had a vaccination in my life and went to public school and graduated. I went to community college without any vaccinations. ( I was born long long before the celebrities started their anti VAX crusade . i was born long before it was a trend not to vaccinate )
My son went to public school for 5 yrs and had no vaccinations ever. I was the room mom and was in the school all the time unvaccinated.
My mom received vaccinations upon entering the united states but she's the only person in my family who had them.
People here are claiming kids can't go to public schools without vaccines and that is not true at all . once a school hears religious beliefs as your reasoning, they don't ask another question.
So all of you that feel so safe because you believe kids can't go to school without vaccines, you would probably be very shocked to know just how many kids really don't have vaccinations. You wouldn't be so quick to throw around " its a law ! Its a law "
I do not believe vaccinations cause autism either.
But I do know that many have a false sense of security when they think all kids must be vaccinated to go public schools. There's more unvaccinated kids then most are aware of and for many more reasons other then the anti vax celebrity trend .1 -
As a kid, I was not vaccinated because of religious reasons but as an adult I am up to date. I would hate to think that I spread whooping cough to my grandchildren or anyone's children.1
-
thorsmom01 wrote: »I have never had a vaccination in my life and went to public school and graduated. I went to community college without any vaccinations. ( I was born long long before the celebrities started their anti VAX crusade . i was born long before it was a trend not to vaccinate )
My son went to public school for 5 yrs and had no vaccinations ever. I was the room mom and was in the school all the time unvaccinated.
My mom received vaccinations upon entering the united states but she's the only person in my family who had them.
People here are claiming kids can't go to public schools without vaccines and that is not true at all . once a school hears religious beliefs as your reasoning, they don't ask another question.
So all of you that feel so safe because you believe kids can't go to school without vaccines, you would probably be very shocked to know just how many kids really don't have vaccinations. You wouldn't be so quick to throw around " its a law ! Its a law "
I do not believe vaccinations cause autism either.
But I do know that many have a false sense of security when they think all kids must be vaccinated to go public schools. There's more unvaccinated kids then most are aware of and for many more reasons other then the anti vax celebrity trend .
She is right. There are loopholes in the laws that anyone can get around.0 -
@GaleHawkins THIS is what a credible source looks like.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/
http://www.who.int/topics/vaccines/en/2 -
There is always exemptions, Just like most laws and rules .
Its very naïve to believe that just because a law says kids must be vaccinated to enter school , that all of the kids in the class are in fact vaccinated.
Most would be shocked to find out the real numbers of unvaccinated kids In American public schools.
I will again state that I do not believe vaccinations cause autism . again, I was born way before that trend even started.
1 -
rhtexasgal wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »You cannot get the flu from the flu shot. It is an inactivated virus. The nasal spray, otoh, is a live virus, and it is theoretically possible to get the flu from that, but that is very rare. More than likely, if 93% of the boys you deal with who got the flu shot also got the flu, that means either
1. They had a really bad cold that they reported as the "flu" or
2. They contracted the flu before their shot took effect (takes 7-14 days for influenza to incubate, and two weeks for the shot to reach full effectiveness) or
3. They happened to get a strain of influenza that that year's shot wasn't protecting against or
4. 78% of statistics are made up on the spot
I'm betting on a combination of all of the above. But mostly numbers 1 and 4.
Fwiw - I never got the flu shot until I was 28 years old. Never had the flu. Been getting the flu shot yearly since then. Still never had the flu. So long as we're doing informal "studies".
All of your points make sense but I just have a hard time with over 10 years of coincidences. Just like with all scientific studies, findings can be interpreted many ways. While I can believe what you are saying, I cannot necessarily reconcile certain things when I witness them first hand year after year. My first 7 years of employment, I watched our boys get sick and get well and it was almost cyclical. Sure, there are the waves when you get clusters of kids getting strep, etc. But around flu shot season? Our illnesses always spiked at that time. It was so noticeable that we devised a questionnaire for our parents to fill out and we have been doing this for the past 10 years. That is when we noticed that most of the boys that got flu shots, got sick soon after. Those boys that did not get the shot during those key times did not get the flu. They did get sick with other things but not the flu. My statistics are based on hard copy questionnaires from the parents of our boys. Sure, it is a small sampling of a larger population but we were concerned about all of this because our organization is performing arts which depends on having our boys healthy.
The real problem with an analysis like that is that "influenza like illnesses" are actually unlikely to be influenza. To actually determine that a patient has influenza requires a viral culture, something uncommonly done, so most doctors only diagnose influenza-like illness. Depending on the year, even during the flu season, only about 14% of influenza-like illnesses are actually caused by influenza. Most of the times what people call "the flu" is another virus - a rhinovirus, a coronavirus, an adenovirus, even a rotavirus or norovirus, etc. The influenza vaccine won't protect against those, obviously, as they aren't influenza. Influenza is the most dangerous of the influenza-like illnesses, which is why it's the target for vaccination.
Even among the unvaccinated, 93% won't get the flu in a year. You can't get the flu from the flu shot - it's not living virus.2 -
If I have kids they will be vaccinated No reason not to. To help protect those who can't be. Like my aunt, over a year battling a blood cancer.
My grandfather was left premadently damaged by polio and I don't want that for my child.
And to protect those whose parents refuse to. Like my friends kid. I really hope he doesn't catch anything.0 -
Dear Posters,
I wanted to offer a brief explanation for the locking of this thread. This discussion is welcome to continue in groups.
The forum guidelines include this item:
15. Divisive Topics Are Better Suited For Groups, Not the Main Forums
Divisive topics and posts, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.
If you would like to review the forum guidelines, please visit the following link:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
At our discretion, this locked thread may be deleted entirely in the near future.
With respect,
JustSomeEm0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions