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Fat Acceptance Movement
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The issue of the older obese is another sordid tale from the politicized arm of the public fat acceptance movement. As soon as their spokespeople succumb to the diseases of obesity and get chair bound, they are shunted out of the spotlight, ignored and never heard from again. New, young, fresh blood rises up to take their place to perpetuate the lie that obesity is just fine.
Mind you, I don't support fat shaming of any sort. I also am in favor of respecting all people.
I am very against this organized movement, though.7 -
RonnieLodge wrote: »
I work in healthcare as well and see a great deal of very large people (requiring more manpower, equipment, $$$$ and time to treat) and plenty of older people (65yrs +).
Don't see that many obese older people though.
Wife and I were just talking about that. Very few obese over 70.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Wife and I were just talking about that. Very few obese over 70.
Hmmm. I would assume that in the meta, the cost of one living to be 70+ would be notably higher than the expenses of dealing with the obese, and it just gets exponentially more expensive as they age. Though, I have to imagine what few morbidly obese elderly exist are probably a factor of ten worse than either demographic by itself.0 -
If you treat people like *kitten* because of (. . . . . ) you are a bad person. Period.
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I have a problem with this on a personal level. I think big people are beautiful! I think there are lots of big people out there who can kick my butt, lift more than me, outrun me, and swim harder than me. I think you can be healthy and big. But, I think without the mentality of always "being better" we throw ourselves down a rabbit hole of self-acceptance that encourages a host of unhealthy habits, from being overweight without also being healthy, to keeping a messy house, or being lackadaisical in faith.
I am reinventing myself every day. I think it's a good thing. I love believing I can always be a better me. When I told one of my best friends this, she burst into tears, she said "But I like you just the way you are" she has since taken a movement against "reinventing" oneself and thinks anyone who wants to change has a mental illness. Other friends are also against this. Mostly my friends who have always been thin. I have never been thin in my life, I've been overweight since I was a toddler, I was 180lbs at age 12. I was taught that no matter what you want to achieve you can ALWAYS do better.
So when I hear people supporting the fat acceptance movement, I say "you're right, they are great...but they, like you or me, can always be better"1 -
Yesterday, my RN daughter had a 300+ pd 70 yo patient who is bedridden and can only move her arms. It took 2 nurses to roll her over to clean her butt. Daughter's back is sore as heck today.
I see this all the time as well - anyone working on the front lines of healthcare deals with this everyday as the system holds no consequences for bad behavior. The standard medical beds used for years have been decommissioned as they cannot support patients over 400 lbs. Recently a friend informed me that the body bags they order can rarely hold the deceased at his hospital and that they have to order horse body bags.1 -
I see this all the time as well - anyone working on the front lines of healthcare deals with this everyday as the system holds no consequences for bad behavior. The standard medical beds used for years have been decommissioned as they cannot support patients over 400 lbs. Recently a friend informed me that the body bags they order can rarely hold the deceased at his hospital and that they have to order horse body bags.
*shudders* I do not ever want to be one of those people they need horse body bags for...
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ladyreva78 wrote: »
*shudders* I do not ever want to be one of those people they need horse body bags for...
Not to mention the casket the size of a queen bed.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Not to mention the casket the size of a queen bed.
Thanks... now I'm picturing a horse in a queen-size bed being buried... Poor sods having to dig that grave...
Somewhat more on topic: I am a bit disgusted with myself that I was actually slowly reaching a weight were that was a real possibility. Does that mean I'm fat-shaming myself? oh the horror...4 -
I see this all the time as well - anyone working on the front lines of healthcare deals with this everyday as the system holds no consequences for bad behavior. The standard medical beds used for years have been decommissioned as they cannot support patients over 400 lbs. Recently a friend informed me that the body bags they order can rarely hold the deceased at his hospital and that they have to order horse body bags.
Is there even such a thing as a horse body bag? I thought you just used the back hoe to bury them out in the back 40. Or sent them to the landfill or rendering plant, in which case a body bag seems an elaborate nicety.
Still, I wouldn't want to be zipped into a horse body bag upon my death (or rendered, for that matter).1 -
Mary_Anastasia wrote: »I think big people are beautiful! I think there are lots of big people out there who can kick my butt, lift more than me, outrun me, and swim harder than me. I think you can be healthy and big.
Firstly the term "big" should not be used to describe people who are obese. Secondly, it is absurd to say all people of a certain size are beautiful.
Also there are numerous health risks directly related to being overweight/obese.
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The problem I have with it is, you are NOT healthy at any size. Both ways- to skinny is unhealthy and to fat is unhealthy. To skinny can give you reproduction issues, muscle and joint issues. To fat can give you heart issues, joint issues, diabetes, and high cholesterol.
However, shaming someone for being fat makes you an *kitten*, human decency is not limited by someone's size.4 -
The problem I have with it is, you are NOT healthy at any size. Both ways- to skinny is unhealthy and to fat is unhealthy. To skinny can give you reproduction issues, muscle and joint issues. To fat can give you heart issues, joint issues, diabetes, and high cholesterol.
However, shaming someone for being fat makes you an *kitten*, human decency is not limited by someone's size.
Exactly, its not okay to make fun of fat people and "shame" them. But being overweight and obese should NOT be shown as healthy in the media. It is terrible that they are showing "obesity is healthy and normal, some people are just big" because it skews the general perception of obesity. Many people nowadays say that people who are on the low end of healthy are "anorexic thin" and "way too thin". It was never this way back in the the day. But not that everyone is used to seeing so many obese and overweight it has become normal. THAT is the problem.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Not to mention the casket the size of a queen bed.
Fun story, though...
There is an old cemetery not far from where I live... historical, as it includes a group of people that came through this area and decided to stop here rather than continue onward with the rest of the group further west. It had become forgotten and over-run. At some point, a farmer bought the land and just moved the remaining stones and threw them in a well or something.
A local historical organization discovered this and decided to purchase the land and try to protect it. At some later point, a university was doing some research about the leader of the group that broke off. Now, keep in mind that this was a very long time ago and we didn't have the processed food available that we have today. There wasn't even a McDonald's back then. But the leader of the group that split off was fabled to have been extremely heavy. The stories were that it took a whole lot of men and horses / mules to move his body. So anyway, the university came out with ground-penetrating radar. The one grave whose occupant could be identified was where a coffin was 5 feet wide.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Fun story, though...
There is an old cemetery not far from where I live... historical, as it includes a group of people that came through this area and decided to stop here rather than continue onward with the rest of the group further west. It had become forgotten and over-run. At some point, a farmer bought the land and just moved the remaining stones and threw them in a well or something.
A local historical organization discovered this and decided to purchase the land and try to protect it. At some later point, a university was doing some research about the leader of the group that broke off. Now, keep in mind that this was a very long time ago and we didn't have the processed food available that we have today. There wasn't even a McDonald's back then. But the leader of the group that split off was fabled to have been extremely heavy. The stories were that it took a whole lot of men and horses / mules to move his body. So anyway, the university came out with ground-penetrating radar. The one grave whose occupant could be identified was where a coffin was 5 feet wide.
Wouldn't have been a post-presidency William Howard Taft, would it?
Speaking of him, the anti-Taft propaganda back in the day focused so much on how hilariously fat he was, that I'm starting to wonder if he was the best president of all time. I mean, I get that it was an easy jab, but damn man, that's all they had on him?3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Wouldn't have been a post-presidency William Howard Taft, would it?
Speaking of him, the anti-Taft propaganda back in the day focused so much on how hilariously fat he was, that I'm starting to wonder if he was the best president of all time. I mean, I get that it was an easy jab, but damn man, that's all they had on him?
No, it isn't Taft. Taft is the only President who was also Chief Justice, and he had a ton of governance experience around the world before becoming President. Say what you will about his weight, but you can't question if he had the credentials to be President.3 -
caffeinatedcami wrote: »I was thinking about body image issues (my own and society's in general) and I learned about something called the Fat Acceptance Movement. The Healthy at Any Size Movement is related to this as well. I am curious what people's thoughts on this are.
Personally I am of two minds about it. I have never been clinically overweight but I definitely flirted with the normal-overweight bmi boundary at one point. I have had body image issues since I was a teenager and three of my immediate family members have suffered from anorexia. So I know the toll that negative body image can have on a person. Everyone should love themselves regardless of their size. And fat-shaming should not be tolerated. However, I agree with a lot of the points made in this blog post "6 Things I Don't Understand About the Fat Acceptance Movement". At a certain point does it really demonstrate self-love to give up on weight loss? What are your thoughts?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/04/6-things-i-dont-understand-about-the-fat-acceptance-movement/
I haven't read any of the replies, not even the first page so this reply is re: the OP only. I totally agree with the article. Maybe it's because I too come from a time before the internet was in every home. Before the obesity epidemic. Maybe it's because I have too many friends who are suffering the affects of obesity. Too many young obese or severely overweight friends and relatives.
All the points in the article are things I also wonder about often.0 -
Mary_Anastasia wrote: »I think you can be healthy and big. quote]
Discuss this with any medical professional. Unless someone is a special snowflake issues with overfat will, like the chickens, come home to roost.0 -
Mary_Anastasia wrote: »I have a problem with this on a personal level. I think big people are beautiful! I think there are lots of big people out there who can kick my butt, lift more than me, outrun me, and swim harder than me. I think you can be healthy and big...
Be careful not to confuse "healthy" with "having some level of physical fitness". They're not the same thing.4 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
Exactly, its not okay to make fun of fat people and "shame" them. But being overweight and obese should NOT be shown as healthy in the media. It is terrible that they are showing "obesity is healthy and normal, some people are just big" because it skews the general perception of obesity. Many people nowadays say that people who are on the low end of healthy are "anorexic thin" and "way too thin". It was never this way back in the the day. But not that everyone is used to seeing so many obese and overweight it has become normal. THAT is the problem.
Except that having a BMI <20 had been shown in many analysis to be strongly correlated with high rates of morbidity and mortality, been after controlling for preexisting illnesses. How high? Higher than "overweight" and "class 1" obesity. Slightly higher than"class 2" obesity. Moreover, outcomes have changed since the smoking rates have dropped.
Lumping "overweight" and all "obese" individuals together makes no statistical sense and less sense for people exhorting on the ills of too much weight.4 -
Except that having a BMI <20 had been shown in many analysis to be strongly correlated with high rates of morbidity and mortality, been after controlling for preexisting illnesses. How high? Higher than "overweight" and "class 1" obesity. Slightly higher than"class 2" obesity. Moreover, outcomes have changed since the smoking rates have dropped.
Lumping "overweight" and all "obese" individuals together makes no statistical sense and less sense for people exhorting on the ills of too much weight.
You have to remember with the BMI less than 20 statistic than many people who are terminally ill fall to below 20 before they die so it isn't necessarily the fact that they are below 20 that is explaining the higher mortality5 -
Anorexics have pro-ana groups, obese people have fat-acceptance groups. Its a way of retreating from a society that considers their health to be at risk and instead surrounding themselves with people who are affirming that what they are or what they are doing is okay.13
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Except that having a BMI <20 had been shown in many analysis to be strongly correlated with high rates of morbidity and mortality, been after controlling for preexisting illnesses. How high? Higher than "overweight" and "class 1" obesity. Slightly higher than"class 2" obesity. Moreover, outcomes have changed since the smoking rates have dropped.
Lumping "overweight" and all "obese" individuals together makes no statistical sense and less sense for people exhorting on the ills of too much weight.
Can you site a source for this? The only data I've seen that suggested this did NOT account for medical conditions.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Anorexics have pro-ana groups, obese people have fat-acceptance groups. Its a way of retreating from a society that considers their health to be at risk and instead surrounding themselves with people who are affirming that what they are or what they are doing is okay.
Exactly though I know a lot of people with diagnosed eating disorders who hate hate hate pro ana as it seems a lot of the members are "wannabe" anorexics and glamorize a horrible disease0 -
Except that having a BMI <20 had been shown in many analysis to be strongly correlated with high rates of morbidity and mortality, been after controlling for preexisting illnesses. How high? Higher than "overweight" and "class 1" obesity. Slightly higher than"class 2" obesity. Moreover, outcomes have changed since the smoking rates have dropped.
Lumping "overweight" and all "obese" individuals together makes no statistical sense and less sense for people exhorting on the ills of too much weight.
Have you seen the newest meta-analysis that they did using data for never smokers? I'm not arguing with you, but it changes the old data a bit. Smoking affected the numbers by inversely skewing the data against lower BMI's.
However, being underweight is still as bad as being obese, if I recall correctly off the top of my head.
http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i21560 -
chloe0wens wrote: »Nope, just nope. I "loved" myself overweight, because I was "worth it" to "treat myself" (etc. etc.). One day I woke up and realised that I disgusted myself and needed to change. Self love and accepting myself led to complacency and increasingly larger pants. Realising that I wasn't genetically destined to be big and that my weight was something I could change, hating looking at myself in mirrors, crying buying clothes, that got me off my *kitten* and out of the fridge.
Preach it!0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Have you seen the newest meta-analysis that they did using data for never smokers? I'm not arguing with you, but it changes the old data a bit. Smoking affected the numbers by inversely skewing the data against lower BMI's.
However, being underweight is still as bad as being obese, if I recall correctly off the top of my head.
http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2156
Yes underweight is bad but the cutoff is 18.5 not 20.3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »
Exactly though I know a lot of people with diagnosed eating disorders who hate hate hate pro ana as it seems a lot of the members are "wannabe" anorexics and glamorize a horrible disease
I would assume the same is true of obese people and fat acceptance that some obese people would hate it. Not sure if there are "wannabe" obese people though, our society does glamorize being thin so I can see the "wannabe" annorexics...but probably not wannabe obese people.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
Actually, the fat acceptance movement holds that speaking of fatness as a negative is fat shaming.
Even saying that it's not healthy isn't acceptable. All of the things you mentioned about the government's efforts, press coverage and doctors? They're all wrong and fat shaming.
Right, but that's why I said other than HAES. I think those people are marginal, and that society as a whole thinks those positions are idiotic, so I'm not concerned that society is going to decide that all these things that are commonplace are awful, terrible things we cannot do. I'm open to an argument that things will change, but I definitely don't see it around me (which again, is good).0 -
I'm saying, I don't understand the fat shaming issue.
Saying that someone's opinions can be discounted (on something not having anything to do with weight, to make it clear), because fat. Telling someone they are disgusting, because fat. Going up to someone and telling her that she makes you sick and needs to lose weight. Using "fat" as the main way of undercutting someone's views or attaching mocking photos of fat people to classist commentary (people of Walmart, for example), all strike me as fat shaming in some sense. I didn't experience it much when fat (there were reasons for this and also I'm oblivious), but I got some milder forms of it (and like I said before, even when not actually fat the f word was used to shame me at times), and I've definitely seen it. IMO, this does not have anything to do with charging more if someone uses 2 airplane seats or being told that your weight is a health risk, obviously.I was told by a larger person that they don't like people that work out.
Well, that person was being narrow-minded or ridiculous or projecting insecurities or who knows what. When I was fat (I'm not now, haven't been most of my life) I liked people who work out (even was one, occasionally). But I don't see what it has to do with the shaming issue. Did you feel shamed? If I say I don't like people who take the elevator one floor when they could take the stairs am I shaming? I don't think so -- I would be shaming if I made a rude comment to someone who did (and although occasionally tempted I do not).Ya know, people are *kitten*. They criticize others on childish whims. I could wear something stupid and be ridiculed for it- I don't have to be fat.
True, but it's not polite, and one particular target is fat people.I have no idea why you think confronting "fat" people would be ideal or even a sarcastic solution.
I am genuinely asking what on earth you are suggesting. If you think we need to make it clear that fatness is "not okay" and "not acceptable" in a way beyond what of course we agree is fine and is already done now (doctors and government programs talking about it as a health issue) what do you mean. If you are saying that you think that the message that it's a health issue is not out there, I am mystified how you could think that.1
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