Obesity Journal study: It's not just CICO

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  • Seffell
    Seffell Posts: 2,222 Member
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    snowflake930 wrote: »
    NotSoPerfectPam wrote: »
    The study shows that their metabolism is PERMANENTLY altered. They didn't study regular dieters, but the implication is that any type of diet screws with your metabolism. I know a lot of folks (myself included) struggle to lose weight on my TDEE based on MFP calculations.

    Permanently? How could they possibly know this? The people have not died. They have not gotten the statistics from the rest of their lives. Nothing is permanent, except death.

    I was thinking the same thing :)
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
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    .. it's still CICO.

    But yeah, of course their metabolism will be lower because, as someone said, they probably burned a lot of muscle in the process. Plus I highly doubt that most people who lose weight will have a 1500 calorie deficit or whatever insane deficit they are required to have for that show...
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    I've read a few things along that line: cutting calories results in a slower metabolism so CO is less.

    I've even read that fasting is better than eating a low calorie diet because the metabolism is actually very slightly increased, probably in an effort to help the body go out and find food. Ketosis is thought to possibly mimic this, although I do not believe there are any dfifinitive studies, and what I have seen discussed is only a very small increase in BMR (about 100kcal). Higher protein diets offer that thermogenic effect too. Appetite suppression seems to be the main benefit, so one can more happily eat less.. forever. LOL
    https://www.periscope.tv/w/1vOxwDVvqZgKB or http://www.thenutritionwonk.com/#!Is-the-Insulin-Theory-of-Obesity-Over/cmbz/5726e6810cf26b6d6848a8f8
  • annaskiski
    annaskiski Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Also, in that book I mentioned above, they said it typically takes a comparable amount of time for your metabolism to recover, as you were on the cut.

    So if you are dieting for a year, it takes a year for your metabolism to fully recover.....
  • eeejer
    eeejer Posts: 339 Member
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    if you don't lift weights while losing fat your BMR will go down more than you want. This is just 101 stuff.
  • eeejer
    eeejer Posts: 339 Member
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    NotSoPerfectPam wrote: »
    The study shows that their metabolism is PERMANENTLY altered. They didn't study regular dieters, but the implication is that any type of diet screws with your metabolism. I know a lot of folks (myself included) struggle to lose weight on my TDEE based on MFP calculations.

    That is because it is only an estimate, and has to be adjusted based on real-world results on the scale (Assuming you are logging 100% correctly).
  • Mentali
    Mentali Posts: 352 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    My understanding is that the only way to scientifically measure BMR is in a lab that monitors oxygen expenditure in a closed room, over a long period of time. Otherwise, a persons RMR is an estimate. I wonder if these people were studied under true laboratory conditions to measure if their metabolism had truly been "damaged" or if their weight regain might not have been caused by something else, and just blamed on a damaged metabolism.

    I didn't read the actual study because it gave me a 404 when I clicked it, but the article seemed to imply that they were tested in laboratory settings, and also measured for a few weeks beforehand using some other technology to make sure they weren't "gaming the test" by suddenly increasing their exercise just beforehand.
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
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    eeejer wrote: »
    if you don't lift weights while losing fat your BMR will go down more than you want. This is just 101 stuff.

    I think you're overstating it a bit there. There are plenty of exercises that can help that don't involve lifting weights. Body weight training, swimming, biking, etc. can all help maintain and build muscle mass to help with BMR. Weight training has the advantage of allowing one to change weight and rep schemes down to a rather fine degree.
  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
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    gebeziseva wrote: »
    What does this have to do with CICO?
    CICO means that you lose weight if you eat less than you burn and you gain weight if you eat more than you burn. How much you're going to burn has nothing to do with this principle.

    Also this is the only way a person can lose weight - eat less than you burn - more out than in. This is not disputable. So it is just CICO.

    ETA: Now if you want to lose them pounds super fast and decide to eat like a mouse and then screw your metabolism as a result, well then I guess we always have natural selection at work :)

    To your question - how do we get our TDEE/BMR tested - EASY :)
    I do that for the last few month. I put all my data - the calories in, the calories out through exercise if any, and my weight in excel tables and calculate what my TDEE is as a result of that. This is my actual TDEE and it can't lie :) Fortunately for me it is very close to what the online formulas suggest it is (my calculation is experimental fitting of data, theirs is based on thermodynamics). This method can only work though if you are extra careful with your food measuring and logging.

    One doctor associated with this study is quoted as saying that calorie rstricting diets just don't work. I thought it was a bit deprssing myself, I mean the whole thing was, for obese people and sortof hopeless.

  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
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    ryry62685 wrote: »
    ANother thought I just had.

    They didn't know what their BMR was before they gained weight. THis study ASSUMED the contestants were at the average before hand and when they lost weight and were below the average they ASSUMED it was a decline. All of these contestants were morbidly obese. It is very likely they already had lower resting metabolic rates than the average population which is probably why with poor eating habits they were able to get that large.

    To do this properly you would really need to measure someones BMR at their low weight. Have them gain a crap ton of weight and probably live like that for an appreciable amount of time, then lose back to their original weight and measure.

    It would also be wise to account for differences in BF% because I'm guessing all these contestants have higher than average BF% at a given weight due to how much muscle they likely lost from following the extreme protocol.

    I'm pretty sure that was checked, the bmr thing, before weight loss.

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