If Ketogenic diet is the answer to all our problems-why is still based around caloric values?

viren19890
viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hello,

Just wondering-isn't this basically answer to all our prayers. I mean going on a maintenance caloric allowance and then replacing all the carbs with Fats/protein. Voila! we stay at the same weight and everything is replaced with muscle.

I was reading that energy is taken from fats instead of carbs and then when fats are lower (being in a deficit) it'll take away from fat stored in body. All muscle stays intact and we lose fat and fat only.

Are there any studies or research done on this topic? Proper ones not the chocolate helps you lose weight kind.

If this is all true then why isn't it employed by almost everyone?
Body recomp gang should go bonkers over this stuff right?
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Replies

  • MsBuzzkillington
    MsBuzzkillington Posts: 171 Member
    Well if they don't... there's probably a reason for it.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    edited May 2016
    viren19890 wrote: »
    Hello,

    Just wondering-isn't this basically answer to all our prayers. I mean going on a maintenance caloric allowance and then replacing all the carbs with Fats/protein. Voila! we stay at the same weight and everything is replaced with muscle.

    I was reading that energy is taken from fats instead of carbs and then when fats are lower (being in a deficit) it'll take away from fat stored in body. All muscle[/url] stays intact and we lose fat and fat only.

    Are there any studies or research done on this topic? Proper ones not the chocolate helps you lose weight kind.

    If this is all true then why isn't it employed by almost everyone?
    Body recomp gang should go bonkers over this stuff right?

    Keto can cause problems for some people.

    In my case keto seems to be working well and in my case as long as I eat my macro and never going hungry I can maintain at 200 pounds. I do not eat keto for weight loss and body recomp yet it does both in my case.

    I left sugar and all forms of grains Oct 2014 hoping for pain management. Pain levels dropped from 7-8 to 2-3 30 days later after 40 years of high levels of pain and remain low eating < 50 grams of carbs daily.

    Do not replace Carbs with protein if you want to get into and stay in nutritional ketosis because for most people carbs need to be less than 50 grams daily and protein in the 70-90 grams per day range and you make up the difference with fats to hit your calorie needs. Half of the protein one eats becomes glucose it is like one ate that many more carbs. High protein and keto does not mix.

    Nutritional ketosis is muscle sparing in part thanks to chaperone mediated autophagy which leads to reusing junk protein stuck in one's cells. This is one reason people living in nutritional ketosis often start looking younger due to one's skin becoming more healthy looking after the junk protein in skin cells start to get recycled for building muscles, etc. It is all cells that contain junk protein over time.

    nature.com/cr/journal/v24/n1/full/cr2013153a.html

    Ketosis is not magic but just basic human physiology science. Living on ketones instead of mainly glucose can be hard to get the mind wrapped around.

    Google is the best way I have found to learn the concept but after two years I still have a lot more to learn even starting out with an OD degree. One should give themselves lot of time if they want to understand this way of eating.

  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    yeah that's the thing... Compliance. For those people that do follow the keto woe, it really does work wonderfully for them.

    Others simply refuse or feel the need to give up carbs/sugar
  • MelaniaTrump
    MelaniaTrump Posts: 2,694 Member
    edited May 2016
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

  • 85Cardinals
    85Cardinals Posts: 733 Member
    edited May 2016
    It's just complicated. It's science. I really do think it's more than just cico, but that's a good place to start. Keto helps so many people, it has great merit too.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    There is no such thing as good or bad carbs. They are just carbs.

    I know what you mean. But some people see "bad carbs" as those they tend to binge on or can't eat in moderation, so cutting them out helps them to stick with a deficit.

    If i was going to say bad carbs, I'd choose breakfast cereal, because I love the stuff and have trouble eating it in moderation. They're bad for me, but are good for others who don't have a problem with them :smiley: But if I'm going to be brutally honest... My willpower is the "bad" thing in all of this :wink:
  • Purplebunnysarah
    Purplebunnysarah Posts: 3,252 Member
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    I eat way more veggies now that I'm low carb than I did eating a more mainstream diet... I just eat smaller quantities of specific types, or eat them less frequently.
  • viren19890
    viren19890 Posts: 778 Member
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Veggies equal calories plus carbs. Surely eating an unlimited amount is a contradiction to keeping the diet low on carbs and calories.

    I'm not familiar with the "rapid fat loss" protocol, so I could be completely off base..
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    People can do fine with keto compliance if they come to the realization being put in their coffin is the other option. :)

    Like I said keto is just based on human physiology that evolved over time. We are just Flex Fuel machines that can run on glucose and ketone bodies.

    There are no bad carbs that we grow in our gardens or were grown in a field somewhere I expect. Processed carbs may or not be in the best interest of our bodies.

    I see life potential as four quarters of 30 years each. In a medical sense we know cell health can start to decline after age 30 and by 40 most of us know we are past our prime. Most people will make it to age 60. The third quarter takes about a bunch of people. My 96 year old neighbor just pasted away a few weeks ago. Those who make it to the four quarter seldom make it past 115-116 per Google.

    The 18-30 age group will still have most of their high school class still alive so a crystal clear view that death is coming has not dawned on most of the group. When our parents/guardians die then we know we are next in line to die.

    We are all free to eat the way we desire without others harassing us. We are free to smoke with the understanding it will does increase the risk of our premature death.

    MFP is the same as BITOG (Bob is the oil Guy) forums in that both food and motor oil get talked to death and we defend our position like many do religion and politics.

    Food and motor oil are important but most of both are just fine and will do a good job.

    I found the macro that cut down my internal inflammation and quickly my health started improving. When it was carbs (a non essential food group) that was proven by elimination at the age of 63 to be causing 40 years of serious health issues and deformities leaving off the processed carbs was easy after two weeks and nearly two years later my craves are still gone.

    Our brains were designed to control what we eat and how much of it we eat.

    I still like the taste of sugar and have the memories pies and cakes. I just have no craving to pick them up and eat them. I like their looks and taste but I do not have a burning desire to touch, taste or eat them like I did before going off of sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey.

    My way of eating is not restrictive because it gives me a better quality of life. Not running around on my wife is not restrictive because it gives me a better quality of life.

    What we eat is just a simple decision that we make and nothing less or nothing more.

    I expect our thought processes may do many of us more harm than the kind of food we eat.

    We evolved without soda pop and processed food we all agree. We also evolved without cell phones, cars, Rx meds, etc, etc.

    I have no desire to go back to the stone age way of life and that includes their diet and food supply. :)
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    viren19890 wrote: »
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.

    The PSMF is a rapid fat loss diet, basically a crash diet, with very low calories . Lyle has your fats and calories down so low in that diet that eating a copious amount of vegetables would not take you out of a deficit.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    viren19890 wrote: »
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.

    @viren19890 most books are like that. Some of us convert carbs to fat very well so the <50 grams works for us. Most whole foods contain fiber, minerals, vitamins which may not be the case with highly processed food that has chemically been altered. Few people think fresh meat is worse for health than a cheap hot dog.

    If you find a way of eating that is interesting give it a try for 90 days is you wish and decide what your body is telling to about that way of eating and go from that point.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    edited May 2016
    arditarose wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.

    The PSMF is a rapid fat loss diet, basically a crash diet, with very low calories . Lyle has your fats and calories down so low in that diet that eating a copious amount of vegetables would not take you out of a deficit.
    And to add to that-veg has a lot of fiber so even after you fill up with them, it's easy to meet the 50g net carbs once you subtract the fiber. Also, he does mention not to eat veg higher in sugar.
  • ogmomma2012
    ogmomma2012 Posts: 1,520 Member
    Lol, regardless of eating style, a deficit will result in weightloss. If you have other factors, like emotional eating or addictive eating, no diet style will help combat that until you get your eating habits helped.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    viren19890 wrote: »
    I just read a book by Lyle McDonald "Rapid Fat loss" he talks about increasing protein to 1.25 g/lbm for 16-24% BF people -carbs less than 50 grams but then goes to say eat unlimited vegetables.

    This threw me off and I put the book aside lol - I mean unlimited vegetables would have calories and would defeat the purpose.

    The PSMF is a rapid fat loss diet, basically a crash diet, with very low calories . Lyle has your fats and calories down so low in that diet that eating a copious amount of vegetables would not take you out of a deficit.

    This. Plus he changed that in the 2nd edition so the OP most likely has a pirated copy
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    JanetYellen wrote: »
    I think it works for some people that have problems with BAD carbs.
    Like cupcakes, chips, sugary drinks, twinkies, cookies, french fries, candy.
    And I think it works because they don't really like to eat veggies and beans.

    5/7 of those BAD carbs have just as much fat as carbs...

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