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Opinions on CICO while eating healthy?
VividVegan
Posts: 200 Member
I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals. I used to do that along with light exercise and lost weight but didn't become fit and instead became skinny-fat. So I increased my exercise a bit and still wasn't getting anywhere then went to a gym and saw all these lean guys and asked them a lot of questions. They told me no amount of exercise can outdo bad eating habits and I went to a nutritionist who also gave me advice on healthier food choices. So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. Haven't lost much more weight but am losing more inches and much leaner than when I was doing CICO alone (while eating anything). I'm currently helping a friend who's in the same boat I used to be in and she's now leaning out as well. Why do people think CICO is the only thing that's required?
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Replies
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It's the only thing needed to lose weight. It's an overriding principle, a law of nature.
I'm not sure who "people" are. For many people, losing weight is the most important thing they can do to improve their health. It's a lot easier for these people to realize that they don't have to give up everything that they love to eat and hit the gym for 2+ hours per day.
Not everyone has the same fitness goals.16 -
Because it is factually all that is required for weight loss.
People always remind that macros and food composition play a part in body compositon, but not nearly as much as the energy balance and training regimen portion of the equation do.
Just to rebut your "success" but not meant to discredit it any way, I have successfully leaned out (currently sub 7%, started at 19-20ish%) and added muscle (roughly 20lbsin 2 years) as well while eating everything you mentioned. Quite often I might add.13 -
Because it's all you need to lose weight.6
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It's the only thing needed to lose weight. It's an overriding principle, a law of nature.
I'm not sure who "people" are. For many people, losing weight is the most important thing they can do to improve their health. It's a lot easier for these people to realize that they don't have to give up everything that they love to eat and hit the gym for 2+ hours per day.
Not everyone has the same fitness goals.
People on forums for example, especially MFP. I'd like to know why CICO alone got me skinny-fat then. I lost weight, although I looked horrible. Those BB and athletes seem to know what they're talking about.0 -
CICO is all you need to lose weight, but good health and fitness also require good nutrition. Weight loss alone is not going to give someone a fit, lean, and healthy body, but those things aren't important to everybody.13
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FeedMeFish wrote: »It's the only thing needed to lose weight. It's an overriding principle, a law of nature.
I'm not sure who "people" are. For many people, losing weight is the most important thing they can do to improve their health. It's a lot easier for these people to realize that they don't have to give up everything that they love to eat and hit the gym for 2+ hours per day.
Not everyone has the same fitness goals.
People on forums for example, especially MFP. I'd like to know why CICO alone got me skinny-fat then. I lost weight, although I looked horrible. Those BB and athletes seem to know what they're talking about.
If you lost weight, then it worked exactly as advertised.
If you'd read carefully, you will see that pretty much everyone who contributes to these kinds of threads also will add in advice about exercise and getting proper nutrition.10 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals. I used to do that along with light exercise and lost weight but didn't become fit and instead became skinny-fat. So I increased my exercise a bit and still wasn't getting anywhere then went to a gym and saw all these lean guys and asked them a lot of questions. They told me no amount of exercise can outdo bad eating habits and I went to a nutritionist who also gave me advice on healthier food choices. So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. Haven't lost much more weight but am losing more inches and much leaner than when I was doing CICO alone (while eating anything). I'm currently helping a friend who's in the same boat I used to be in and she's now leaning out as well. Why do people think CICO is the only thing that's required?
I agree and experienced this myself.
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FeedMeFish wrote: »So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. ?
You do realize that most people who lose weight, maintain it, and exercise moderately eat the way you do?
CICO does usually NOT mean eating all your allotted calories in cake and pizza (except if you are the guy on the twinkie diet)
Most people who are using CICO add the "unhealthy" stuff in moderation - in other words, eat fast food now and then, drink a soda now and then, have a glass of wine or pizza now or then - when it fits their calories and daily life......
You are probably getting leaner because you are in a calorie deficit and upped/changed your workout.... I was a lot less leaner and had less visible muscle definition when I ran a ten km every Saturday (and a few more km's during the week) than when I was running less but doing more weight training......
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You mention bodybuilders and athletes - were you training like them?
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I would have to say that most people who discuss the CICO method are talking about losing weight, not necessarily reaching fitness goals. Certainly to become more fit a healthy, balanced diet coupled with exercise is key. That is what many people I have read comments from will tell you.6
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Back in my late 20's I lost weight the CICO way only, eating unhealthily and exercising. I felt horrible all the time, had no energy and hated every day of it. This time around I'm still counting calories, but also macros and cutting out junk food, eating healthy and cooking my own meals as much as I can. I feel so much better, have plenty of energy and love every minute of it.
As others have said all that's needed is CICO to lose weight and if that's all you want then that's fine too, each to their own.2 -
CICO is not a method or a way of eating. CICO is not synonymous with counting calories. CICO is an energy balance equation. Everyone who has ever lost weight has done so because their Calories In (CI) is less than their Calories Out (CO). How you achieve that (IIFYM, keto, vegetarian, paleo, any other way of eating) is up to you, you preference for a way of eating, and your personal nutrition and fitness goals.13
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I've seen very few people say CICO is all that is needed for fitness. I've seen lots say it's all that's needed for weight loss. Fitness and weight loss are not synonyms.
CICO is important for both weight loss and fitness. It's not hard to eat the diet you describe (I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts) and still gain weight. At least it wasn't hard for me.8 -
CICO is a way to shorten the basic weight loss equation down to an easily typed acronym. It's not, by itself, a way of eating or diet. It will probably be less confusing in this thread if we could separate out CICO from "counting calories and ignoring other factors." The two are not equivalent.3
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CICO is not a method or a way of eating. CICO is not synonymous with counting calories. CICO is an energy balance equation. Everyone who has ever lost weight has done so because their Calories In (CI) is less than their Calories Out (CO). How you achieve that (IIFYM, keto, vegetarian, paleo, any other way of eating) is up to you, you preference for a way of eating, and your personal nutrition and fitness goals.
All of this.2 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals.
Nobody says that, or, if they do, they're uninformed and you shouldn't listen to them. What people say is that calories in and out is all that's needed to meet your weight goals. Fitness is more complicated and multi-faceted than weight, as you're learning.4 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals. I used to do that along with light exercise and lost weight but didn't become fit and instead became skinny-fat. So I increased my exercise a bit and still wasn't getting anywhere then went to a gym and saw all these lean guys and asked them a lot of questions. They told me no amount of exercise can outdo bad eating habits and I went to a nutritionist who also gave me advice on healthier food choices. So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. Haven't lost much more weight but am losing more inches and much leaner than when I was doing CICO alone (while eating anything). I'm currently helping a friend who's in the same boat I used to be in and she's now leaning out as well. Why do people think CICO is the only thing that's required?
I've never heard anyone claim CI/CO is they only thing that matters for fitness goals. Only for weight loss. You're confusing different things.5 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »It's the only thing needed to lose weight. It's an overriding principle, a law of nature.
I'm not sure who "people" are. For many people, losing weight is the most important thing they can do to improve their health. It's a lot easier for these people to realize that they don't have to give up everything that they love to eat and hit the gym for 2+ hours per day.
Not everyone has the same fitness goals.
People on forums for example, especially MFP. I'd like to know why CICO alone got me skinny-fat then. I lost weight, although I looked horrible. Those BB and athletes seem to know what they're talking about.
People frequently point out that eating adequate protein is necessary to maximize muscle preservation, that not having too aggressive a deficit and doing strength training or other resistance exercise also plays a role in that, and that eating well (i.e., meeting nutritional goals, not cutting out specific foods) may well make a difference to health and energy levels.
How much all this matters depends on where you are in the process. Someone with a lot to lose and for whom weight loss is needed for health will typically lose mostly fat even without worrying about these things and improve test results just by the loss of weight. (I'd still recommend eating well and getting enough protein and moving more if possible.) Someone who is reasonably lean and going for vanity or fitness goals will need to focus more on macros and perhaps other nutrition issues (depending on how bad their diet is). It depends on goals.
When people say CICO is all that matters for weight loss/gain, they are NOT saying there are no other factors to take into account in how you eat.
That said, I'd expect that if someone gets "skinny fat" is will have more to do with not enough protein, too aggressive a deficit, or inadequate training than not having a "clean" diet (according to any definition).0 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals. I used to do that along with light exercise and lost weight but didn't become fit and instead became skinny-fat. So I increased my exercise a bit and still wasn't getting anywhere then went to a gym and saw all these lean guys and asked them a lot of questions. They told me no amount of exercise can outdo bad eating habits and I went to a nutritionist who also gave me advice on healthier food choices. So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. Haven't lost much more weight but am losing more inches and much leaner than when I was doing CICO alone (while eating anything). I'm currently helping a friend who's in the same boat I used to be in and she's now leaning out as well. Why do people think CICO is the only thing that's required?
The clue to why you remained "skinny fat" are your two statements in bold above. You did, however lose weight which is what the equation of CICO is used for to maintain a deficit during the weight loss. We lose more than just fat during a loss period (muscle loss also). Losing weight and fitness are two different things. Chances are you had not bulked up your muscles before your weight loss, and chances are you were not on a regular lifting or body weight regimen to maintain as much of your muscle as one possibly can hope to during a "cut" or weight loss. So you ended up "skinny fat" if that is a definition.
Once you hit the increase of intensity at your current body weight, your body started to adapt and shape itself due to the level of activity (fitness). As you said, the weight was already lost and you haven't lost any more. So you must be eating at maintenance level.
Also, it's worth noting that during a weight loss (deficit using CICO), one can easily feel a lack of energy for exercise - especially if training many hours per week. Studies in cycling and running have shown that combining weight loss with HIIT at the same time results in no improvement in your HIIT fitness while losing weight. Once the weight loss has stopped by reaching your goal, and one is not eating at a deficit the improvement takes off with the intensity.
It appears you reached the moment of goal weight, improved nutrition, maintenance, and bumping up your intensity all at the same time which is a golden combination and explains why you feel good right now.
Enjoy and keep up the good work. Good nutrition, CICO, bumped up intensity, maintenance - it's all good.
Great Video here to piggyback on the subject why maintaining your fitness and good nutrition is so important. Allow yourself 20 minutes to listen to this NY Times Best Seller Doctor and his life experience in his practice...
https://youtu.be/E4katnfHzXA
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »CICO is important for both weight loss and fitness. It's not hard to eat the diet you describe (I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts) and still gain weight. At least it wasn't hard for me.
This has been my experience too.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals.
Nobody says that, or, if they do, they're uninformed and you shouldn't listen to them. What people say is that calories in and out is all that's needed to meet your weight goals. Fitness is more complicated and multi-faceted than weight, as you're learning.
This. CICO is for weight control, not fitness. Weight is just one aspect of overall health. Nutrition, fitness/body composition, sleep, etc. are other aspects of health and accomplished through other methods.2 -
Just to reiterate what other posters have said, no one here says CICO is all that matters for fitness. What they do say:
CICO for weight loss/gain
Exercise for fitness
Macros for satiety and to an extent health.1 -
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals. I used to do that along with light exercise and lost weight but didn't become fit and instead became skinny-fat. So I increased my exercise a bit and still wasn't getting anywhere then went to a gym and saw all these lean guys and asked them a lot of questions. They told me no amount of exercise can outdo bad eating habits and I went to a nutritionist who also gave me advice on healthier food choices. So I slowly switched from processed to natural and lean foods, drank less soda, ate less fast food and had more energy to increase my exercise intensity. I slowly began leaning out and now I don't drink soda, rarely eat fast food, eat more healthy fats instead of fats from packaged foods, and limit desserts (I crave fruits and veggies instead anyways). I drink a gallon of water a day now. Haven't lost much more weight but am losing more inches and much leaner than when I was doing CICO alone (while eating anything). I'm currently helping a friend who's in the same boat I used to be in and she's now leaning out as well. Why do people think CICO is the only thing that's required?
The clue to why you remained "skinny fat" are your two statements in bold above. You did, however lose weight which is what the equation of CICO is used for to maintain a deficit during the weight loss. We lose more than just fat during a loss period (muscle loss also). Losing weight and fitness are two different things. Chances are you had not bulked up your muscles before your weight loss, and chances are you were not on a regular lifting or body weight regimen to maintain as much of your muscle as one possibly can hope to during a "cut" or weight loss. So you ended up "skinny fat" if that is a definition.
Once you hit the increase of intensity at your current body weight, your body started to adapt and shape itself due to the level of activity (fitness). As you said, the weight was already lost and you haven't lost any more. So you must be eating at maintenance level.
Also, it's worth noting that during a weight loss (deficit using CICO), one can easily feel a lack of energy for exercise - especially if training many hours per week. Studies in cycling and running have shown that combining weight loss with HIIT at the same time results in no improvement in your HIIT fitness while losing weight. Once the weight loss has stopped by reaching your goal, and one is not eating at a deficit the improvement takes off with the intensity.
It appears you reached the moment of goal weight, improved nutrition, maintenance, and bumping up your intensity all at the same time which is a golden combination and explains why you feel good right now.
Enjoy and keep up the good work. Good nutrition, CICO, bumped up intensity, maintenance - it's all good.
Great Video here to piggyback on the subject why maintaining your fitness and good nutrition is so important. Allow yourself 20 minutes to listen to this NY Times Best Seller Doctor and his life experience in his practice...https://youtu.be/E4katnfHzXA
Thanks for explaining it all thoroughly. I think I have a better understanding of it now. According to what I had been told/experienced/observed though it was just hard to grasp/understand. Even more confusing when I was told that 3,500 calories = 1 pound of fat (which kept me wondering if that's the case then how come my weight dropped with a calorie deficit but barely my fat)? I even have 2 Dexa scan results as proof.0 -
I love posts like this when a basic principle was misunderstood and/or misapplied and somehow the MFP community is to blame.10
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If you're skinny-fat, you need to lift heavy (duh!)
Since you were on the BB forums, I assume this is what you did, and why you saw results.
Can we /thread on this subject?
Read here....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p1
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FeedMeFish wrote: »It's the only thing needed to lose weight. It's an overriding principle, a law of nature.
I'm not sure who "people" are. For many people, losing weight is the most important thing they can do to improve their health. It's a lot easier for these people to realize that they don't have to give up everything that they love to eat and hit the gym for 2+ hours per day.
Not everyone has the same fitness goals.
People on forums for example, especially MFP. I'd like to know why CICO alone got me skinny-fat then. I lost weight, although I looked horrible. Those BB and athletes seem to know what they're talking about.
If your goal is weight loss, all you need is a calorie deficit. All you had was a calorie deficit, and you did in fact lose weight. If that was your sole and only goal, you would have accomplished it handily.
If you have other health and fitness goals, obviously you need to have a plan to address those as well. If your goal was better body composition, all you likely need is sufficient protein, sufficient total calories, and a good progressive strength training plan. Most fitness comes from exercise, but protein is needed to build muscle.2 -
FeedMeFish wrote: »I hear/see all these people claiming CICO alone is the only thing needed to reach fitness goals.
I've never heard this claim before, and if you ever hear it again please run like hell in the other direction because it's completely nonsense.2 -
You are mistaking CICO with portion-control-diet-only weight loss program.1
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Let's see how long we can keep the thread going with virtually everybody saying the same thing. I'll go next.
A deficit is all you need to lose weight, well there are other things like amputations and what, but you get what I'm saying. Content of your diet is important for fitness.1 -
Losing weight and being fit are two different things. But for the being fit and body composition part, there are still a lot of ways to do it. You have to put in the work in exercise, but the diet composition part has a lot of routes to take. Some prefer moderation of all foods, and others find that removing certain things works better for them and keeps them on track.
Really for fitness, working out hard and consistently is key. Even studies on VLCD show more muscle preservation with the tougher exercise, and in more reasonable diets it's just as true.0
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