The theory we immediately gain weight after sudden weight loss is a false and heres why.
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »Im deleting this post your all idiots who cannot read.
The alternative would be to actually take on board what people are saying.
No-one actually minds if you do low carb / high carb / add sugar to your porridge or not but what you are stating as facts simply aren't, they are your opinion and actually not a very well informed opinion.
Maybe a cup of hot, sweet tea would help calm you down?
That's what us Brits have been doing for centuries.
That sounds lovely, thank you. With milk, please.0 -
Congrats on your weight loss.
Your statements about sugar being prohibitive of fat loss are false.
Water weight does decrease and increase as total carbohydrate fluctuates within the diet but it's not an "on/off" switch.
Changes in body weight come from a variety of sources. Changes in water weight, glycogen, differences in food content from natural changes in food weight vs "bathroom habits", and (small) differences in protein turnover and of course differences between fat storage and fat oxidation from day to day.
You are still storing and oxidizing fat when water weight goes up and down.
Finally the only way you accumulate fat is for fat storage to exceed fat oxidation over a given time period. And the only way you lose fat is when fat oxidation exceeds fat storage over a given time period.
Even in the presence of added sugar and carbohydrate, fat oxidation will exceed fat storage if you consume fewer calories than you burn.
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The primary concerns about added sugar are that it is VERY easy for diets high in added sugar to become hypercaloric.
Secondary concerns are that diets high in added sugar tend to be of poor nutrient quality because foods high in added sugar tend to be foods with low nutrient density.
Avoiding FRUIT because of sugar is a really poor strategy unless for some reason you have a medical need to do so and even every T2 diabetic that I know (I coach a few of them) eats a variety of fruit on a regular basis.
Macronutrition does matter in that it may effect energy expenditure, it WILL effect satiety and adherence, and it WILL effect other important aspects of long term progress. For example protein obviously contributes towards skeletal muscle repair and growth, carbohydrates are great to fuel intense training performance and training PERFORMANCE is a potent mediator of strength and hypertrophy. Etc.
And so this is NOT me saying that "only calories matter". Far from it.
But adding some sugar to a diet that's otherwise reasonably set up, especially in a training population, isn't going to do any noticeable harm to fat loss.
Here's a more complete take on it: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/SideSteel/view/sugar-scapegoat-and-scaremongering-something-to-monitor-8751527 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »It's true that there's often an initial bounce in water weight after raising your calories, largely from carrying more glycogen stores. There's also a mental component of people who think their "diet is over". However, there's another effect that explains some of the weight regain : hunger.
When you are on a prolonged deficit and then begin to eat at maintenance again, you will actually get a lot hungrier than you were on the deficit - there's a rebound hunger effect as your body is now trying to put on weight to prepare for the next time you "starve".
The transition from loss to maintenance is not easy. Statistically speaking it's much harder than losing in the first place.
But your stomach is smaller so you would not be able to consume in the initial phase. The reason why people get hungrier is due to moralism kicking in, its the same if you eat breakfast you are more likely to be hungrier if you ate breakfast by lunch time than if you did not have breakfast. The initial rebound is water weight which could add 6-8lb.
This is one of many reasons why it is more beneficial to eat 5 meals a day as opposed to 3.
I can't figure out what you are trying to say in the bolded portion.
I'll translate: I have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll keep posting nonsense.2 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »It's true that there's often an initial bounce in water weight after raising your calories, largely from carrying more glycogen stores. There's also a mental component of people who think their "diet is over". However, there's another effect that explains some of the weight regain : hunger.
When you are on a prolonged deficit and then begin to eat at maintenance again, you will actually get a lot hungrier than you were on the deficit - there's a rebound hunger effect as your body is now trying to put on weight to prepare for the next time you "starve".
The transition from loss to maintenance is not easy. Statistically speaking it's much harder than losing in the first place.
But your stomach is smaller so you would not be able to consume in the initial phase. The reason why people get hungrier is due to moralism kicking in, its the same if you eat breakfast you are more likely to be hungrier if you ate breakfast by lunch time than if you did not have breakfast. The initial rebound is water weight which could add 6-8lb.
This is one of many reasons why it is more beneficial to eat 5 meals a day as opposed to 3.
I can't figure out what you are trying to say in the bolded portion.
I'll translate: I have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll keep posting nonsense.
Maybe I would understand if I hadn't eaten that big spoon full of stupid!!
(Sorry, that's the funniest thing I've seen today. I can't help myself!)0 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »
But essentially i completely disagree with you. If two twins with identical weights, heights, activity levels etc were to compete in a weight loss challenge. One were to eat Mcdonalds high is sugar and carbs but was only allowed to eat 2000 calories the other twin was only allowed to eat chicken and rice hitting 2000 calories per day.johnturnerbradley wrote: »OP - congrats on your success but you are slipping into evangelism for what worked for you and then projecting that into advice for everybody.
I was successful losing weight with a very different strategy. Sugar and carbs in general are simply not an issue for me, not the reason I gained weight either. My strategy would most likely only be suitable for a small proportion of people and I certainly don't think everyone needs to do the same as me, that would be silly. The one constant for successful weight loss is achieving a sustainable calorie deficit over an extended period of time and adherence is incredibly personal.
There's days I have extraordinary high levels of both sugar and carbs in general - think 800g of carbs was my highest? But that's in context of my exercise needs, to say they are evil is missing the point of context.
What was your strategy of losing weight, how much did you lose and how long did it take you?
I agree, the way in which each and everyone achieves our goals is individual and creating our own strategy or looking for a template to work off of is more likely to succeed long term.
But if someone was overweight and they wanted to know how I lost so much then I guarantee my strategy would work for them. It's not to say others wouldn't do the same but as general proven guidance keep carbs and sugar low watch the calories and see the weight fly off.
If you create a calorie deficit with carbs or without carbs, and the deficits are equal, the weight loss is the same.
The twin eating chicken and rice would lose more weight than the other even if the calories were the same due to the nutritional break down of macros in the food.
This is objectively false.
The laws of thermodynamics demand that if energy expenditure and calorie intake are the same (thus creating equal deficits) the same amount of energy must be utilized from existing stores, resulting in the same amount of weight lost.
Macros are important for a lot of things, but the rate of weight loss is not one of them.0 -
Additional considerations regarding sugar -- and keep in mind (this is important) I'm not suggesting that people eat sugar with no regard to a healthy diet, appropriate nutritional intake and appropriate total calorie intake.
Having said that, if sugar by itself were some inherently obesogenic substrate I would think that we'd see substantial differences in fat loss when carbohydrates are replaced with straight sugar.
But:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11477496
Slightly greater weight loss in the higher added sugar group ^
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9094871
(Full text: http://www.conazucar.com/pdf/informes/sobrepeso/Metabolic-and-behavioral-effects-of-high-sucrose-diet-during-weight-loss.pdf)
^ "Results showed that a high sucrose content in a hypoenergetic, low-fat diet did not adversely affect weight loss, metabolism, plasma lipids, or emotional affect."
And keep in mind this was a high carb diet where the high sugar group was eating a BUTTLOAD of sugar and they STILL lost fat because calorie deficit and the differences in fat loss between groups was insignificant (.4%)
(Important note: With respect to that last study, a valid concern about high sugar diets in free living conditions is that they are NOT typically hypoenergetic, which is again why added sugar can be concerning as I outlined in my previously linked blog post)5 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »Sugar is evil if over consumed especially when combines with high carbohydrates. I.e Various branded Sauces we combine with pasta, rice, potatoes. Sugar and Carbohydrates are both high energy sources, if over consumed consistently together there is only one result... weight gain.
Sugar is not evil.
Sugars are carbohydrates. In fact, all carbohydrates are sugars. Simple sugars are short chained carbohydrates and complex sugars are long chained carbohydrates.
Carbohydrates alone do not cause weight gain. Overconsumption of calories, regardless of the macro they come from, causes weight gain.
A piece of paster vs grained sugar that is added to 80% of food we see in our shops. That is the difference.
Yes again i have said surplus of calories. read post pal
I don't know what pastor is. Is it an evil or saintly carbohydrate?0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »It's true that there's often an initial bounce in water weight after raising your calories, largely from carrying more glycogen stores. There's also a mental component of people who think their "diet is over". However, there's another effect that explains some of the weight regain : hunger.
When you are on a prolonged deficit and then begin to eat at maintenance again, you will actually get a lot hungrier than you were on the deficit - there's a rebound hunger effect as your body is now trying to put on weight to prepare for the next time you "starve".
The transition from loss to maintenance is not easy. Statistically speaking it's much harder than losing in the first place.
But your stomach is smaller so you would not be able to consume in the initial phase. The reason why people get hungrier is due to moralism kicking in, its the same if you eat breakfast you are more likely to be hungrier if you ate breakfast by lunch time than if you did not have breakfast. The initial rebound is water weight which could add 6-8lb.
This is one of many reasons why it is more beneficial to eat 5 meals a day as opposed to 3.
Nope - stomach size doesn't change.
What is "moralism kicking in"?
Nope - it is not more beneficial to eat 5 meals a day as opposed to 3.
Are you going to hit every nutritional myth here?
Buzzfeed education at its finest.1 -
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TL:DR
But is the subject line an actual theory? I mean, I know statistically most who lose a lot of weight will regain some or all of it, but I've never heard of it as a theory or that it happens immediately.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
It it's weird, was at 3400-3600 for about a year. Then cut on 25-2800 for a few weeks. Then started bumping up. Now I'm higher than before the cut. I don't get it. It's only been 2 weeks though so we'll see. But yea, I lift a lot and ride a bikes a lot.
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LMAO classic MFP.
Someone comes in with Brand New Information(TM) and tells everyone else who has lost weight that We're Doing It Wrong and Sugar is Evil.
Dude, I'm losing weight and carbs are literally most of my diet? I admire people who can monitor macros because calories alone are hard enough to track when you're a lazy vegan. My body apparently doesn't give a flux about macros because the weight is coming off, albeit slowly.
Just admit ya dun goofed rather than resort to insults.6 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »Im deleting this post your all idiots who cannot read.
How is this post still here?
Is it so people can laugh at him calling us idiots while he completely obliterates the English language?
And I'm embarrassed to be from the same country. We UK folk can spell, honest! I even know the difference between your and you're because I'm very clever.6 -
philippakate197 wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »Im deleting this post your all idiots who cannot read.
How is this post still here?
Is it so people can laugh at him calling us idiots while he completely obliterates the English language?
And I'm embarrassed to be from the same country. We UK folk can spell, honest! I even know the difference between your and you're because I'm very clever.
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »Sugar is evil if over consumed especially when combines with high carbohydrates. I.e Various branded Sauces we combine with pasta, rice, potatoes. Sugar and Carbohydrates are both high energy sources, if over consumed consistently together there is only one result... weight gain.
If ANY food is over consumed you will gain weight. I over consumed fine imported cheeses and ribeye steaks and got ridiculously fat.2 -
johnturnerbradley wrote: »
I'm 175lbs at 7%... Let me know when not eating added sugar gets you there...
#proofisinthepudding
But puddings have sugar!
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johnturnerbradley wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »It's true that there's often an initial bounce in water weight after raising your calories, largely from carrying more glycogen stores. There's also a mental component of people who think their "diet is over". However, there's another effect that explains some of the weight regain : hunger.
When you are on a prolonged deficit and then begin to eat at maintenance again, you will actually get a lot hungrier than you were on the deficit - there's a rebound hunger effect as your body is now trying to put on weight to prepare for the next time you "starve".
The transition from loss to maintenance is not easy. Statistically speaking it's much harder than losing in the first place.
But your stomach is smaller so you would not be able to consume in the initial phase. The reason why people get hungrier is due to moralism kicking in, its the same if you eat breakfast you are more likely to be hungrier if you ate breakfast by lunch time than if you did not have breakfast. The initial rebound is water weight which could add 6-8lb.
This is one of many reasons why it is more beneficial to eat 5 meals a day as opposed to 3.
I can't figure out what you are trying to say in the bolded portion.
I think "moralism" is meant to be like "More-ish". WHen you get the munchies, and want a little more...
I could be wrong though.
The breakfast thing I get. If I eat breakfast Im starving by mid-morning and likely to snack/eat a big lunch. If I dont eat breakfast my hunger just doesnt kick in and Im happy to have a moderate lunch, its something that helps me with adherence.
That said, obviously most of everything else he has said is nonsense.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »johnturnerbradley wrote: »Im deleting this post your all idiots who cannot read.
The fact of the matter is, as only some of you have read properly it is about water weight and how people do not account of water when they stop training. Man i don't know what they feed you in your country but it sounds like a big spoon full of stupid!
Insults are not necessary.
I tried to stay out. Now we're talkin'.
Guy comes on with 35 posts. Decides to take on [yet another] debate about carbs - for the 20,000th time - this month... Cannot gain traction. Gets mad, throws insults, threatens to take ball and go home. Have I got the cliff notes?
You missed the conclusions section from the theoretical diet composition study conducted on identical twins. I thought that was an important contribution.1 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
It it's weird, was at 3400-3600 for about a year. Then cut on 25-2800 for a few weeks. Then started bumping up. Now I'm higher than before the cut. I don't get it. It's only been 2 weeks though so we'll see. But yea, I lift a lot and ride a bikes a lot.
Had a good discussion and laugh over the TDEE calculators with some lifting friends. They truly are only a starting point and you have to dial in on your own individual needs. Most of them put me at 2700 to maintain...pffftttt, I gain on 2700, maintain at around 2500.
Of course I don't ride nor run so I'm not burning the cals like you are.
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