I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)

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Replies

  • pcpop7
    pcpop7 Posts: 161 Member
    BiggDaddy58 wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.

    Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.

    I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.

    It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.

    I do get this comment..

    But, with MFP it is all about numbers.. Everything is about the numbers. Has nothing really to do with getting fit per se, etc....

    If you hate numbers or math, then calorie counting is the absolutely wrong thing for you to be doing and should find an alternate way to achieve your goals.

    Why OP is doing something he despises is what I do not understand.

    There is always more than one way to get to the destination or to the end result, it is what you choose to get you there and the path you choose!

    I really don't understand WHY you think I am doing something I despise? I am a numbers guy..so I love the calorie counting aspect...CICO..I also understand there is more than way..hence the post..asking for WHY you do it..how long you're going to do..always? Forever? Etc etc..At some point I hope to not have to log in and count calories..at some point in my life, I hope to have learned what is what..about how many calories, how much exercise I should get in..etc etc.
    !

    I sort of get it I think. But if by 57 you have not worked out self control and worked out how to do it without tools, what makes you think you will work it out now ?

    I'm 44 myself and been at it for 4 years now getting healthier and weight control being part of that. The scale is a tool like many other tools and frankly I reckon I tried 40 years of my life without the tools and that didn't work out so good hence why I now use them.
  • neldabg
    neldabg Posts: 1,452 Member
    For me, I set my sights on losing weight straight through, without too much preventable mistakes, and I read tons of articles and blogs, and threads here on MFP about the reasons behind the ever so dreaded plateaus. I decided that I would never be that person who struggled to lose weight once she approached her goal range.
    I lost the first 15ish pounds on my own, without logging and weighing, then another couple pounds with just logging, and for the rest of weight loss and into maintenance, I log(ged) and weigh(ed).
    Basically, I tightened up my logging as I neared my goal weight, knowing that underestimating would have a greater impact as I got closer to my goal weight.
    With all of this, I never had trouble losing and maintaining weight consistently.
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    BiggDaddy58 wrote: »
    "OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies."

    You wrote:
    Thanks for understanding my thoughts. I certainly did not intend them to alienate people, and it isn't a criticism of their choices. I appreciate the feedback.

    I think I understand what you are feeling and asking which I do not see anything negative. I have been through this thought process -- so I know -- and that's why I've refined my approach to fit my lifestyle.

    My lifestyle consists of: being spontaneous with friends, family members, events when it comes to foods. The flow of dinner time, creative cooking, being happy with the amount of foods and consuming dishes the way they are meant, flexibility, on and on...

    Basically I get to the source of the eating issue. It's self control. I'm no longer naive to see only good things about foods. Foods have their place and time and their own values. That took some training. As soon as I have that perspective, controlling myself around foods has become so much easier and ironically foods also taste much better (I don't skim, abuse, and I get healthier, that kind of things).


  • JeromeBarry1
    JeromeBarry1 Posts: 10,179 Member
    I began this as Obese II with no scale. I lost a bunch of weight, then got a scale. I lost a bunch more weight. Now I am Obese I. Many successful maintainers don't use a scale and that's ok. People were healthy eating a moderate variety of foods long before digital scales were invented. I'm going to keep using my scale and logging every 1 or 2 gram variety in a stalk of celery just because I'm fascinated with the knowledge. When I get close to my goal and when the rate of change is very slow and the calorie deficit is 250, I certainly will use the scale because that's when it matters most. For most of us in the Obese ranges, the scale is a teaching instrument that teaches you why you're not losing despite your protestations of starvation mode. Not you directly, @BigDaddy58, but you've seen these discussions and you know what I'm talking about.
  • frankiesgirlie
    frankiesgirlie Posts: 669 Member
    Wait till you get to the last 10 lbs. Every morsel matters because you have no margin of error.
    Also, if you come on MFP having never been overweight but trying to get rid of the ever nagging 10 vanity lbs that your body has liked holding onto, you have to be precise.

    Having said that, I'm a numbers nerd, and I like logging, but I mainly weigh calorie dense things like pasta, butter,oil. But if I buy a bag of halo tangerines and they appear to be uniform in size, I only weigh the first one and use that amount over and over till the bag is gone.

    Not because I mind using a scale, but sometimes just as a time saver.

    I've also learned that while losing the last 10 lbs, and aiming for the recommended 1/2 lb per week loss that I have to aim for a higher 300 calorie deficit to lose weight. Either that, or WEiGH EVERYTHING!!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited June 2016
    Like some others have said, I still use my scale because I find it a lot easier than messing with measuring cups. I used a scale to bake for years before using it for dieting, so it doesn't seem weird to me.

    I'm currently at maintenance and not logging, but I still weigh some things because it's helpful. I suck at estimating pasta or oatmeal or the like and don't see any reason to pull out less accurate measuring cups when the scale is easier. I like having a serving of ice cream after dinner, so I weigh it out when I do. I'm not obsessive about getting it right to the gram, but measuring keeps me honest. Same with meat and cheese and cottage cheese (which I love). With ice cream or cottage cheese a scale is FAR easier than getting out measuring implements (put bowl on scale and add ice cream until I hit the right amount). For meat, well, weight is the normal way to do it anyway. I could eyeball, but for me weighing is part of the cooking process. I sometimes still find myself dumping veggies on the scale after I chop even though there's no reason to. But sometimes it makes me think "you know, I really should have a little more."
    Otherwise I use the information listed on the package or what MFP has for it.

    Other than things like pasta (which like I said, I suck at estimating) or ice cream, most of what I eat has no package.

    I started with lots to lose and lost the first chunk without weighing, because I was afraid it would feel burdensome. I mainly estimated. I lost fine, because I knew how to eat to lose weight and tracking was helpful. When I got more specific I realized I was undereating (I had already as I was losing 3 lb/week, but was scared to add back in some higher cal foods). Being more accurate helped me with that.

    I eventually learned about tracking accurately (using the USDA entries and weighing) because I found it fun. I may decide to lose more weight (I'm 125 now), and while I maybe could without weighing I'd likely weigh again because for me it's motivating and a fun part of the process. I go out to eat often enough at places with no calorie listing, so even when I'm weighing I'm always aware there's imperfections.

    I think a lot of people who question it like you did assume that it's more burdensome than it is. I find making recipes a burden and so rarely do it (I list out all my ingredients separately unless the dish makes it impossible to do that), but weighing for me is no burden -- less of one than spending time estimating, as I learned when I switched. (The worst part of logging for me is having to estimate restaurant meals, so I typically just guess at the calories.)
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    PAV8888 wrote: »

    The most probable side effects of excessive deficits are:
    --increased risk of non compliance
    --increased loss of lean mass
    --increased adaptive thermogenesis



    YMMV :smiley:
    I would like to ask so I could learn...

    How much is excessive? And how long does this excessiveness have to take place before we run into the increased risks?

    What is YMMV? :)
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    Thanks, PAV. I like what you wrote. Gonna take time to go through it.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    PAV--enjoyed your reasoning and agree with it. Congratulations on a great loss. Even though you're using a shovel--you've made it.
  • biggsterjackster
    biggsterjackster Posts: 419 Member
    I have very little to lose and even 100 cal more or less makes a big difference to me. So weighing my food (especially high calorie foods like peanut butter) is super important for me.
  • ogtmama
    ogtmama Posts: 1,403 Member
    Eyeballing is far less burdensome for me, but that's because I'm fairly relaxed about my weight loss. I shoot for a pound and a half per week...a pound makes me happy, 2 pounds makes me very happy. I don't have a particular goal weight, so I really don't understand the people who fight tooth and nail for the last 6 pounds.

    I say, do whatever works for you...maybe though, someone should start a group for people who don't weigh food. It's kinda lonely out here. I thought it was only me.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    eveandqsmom wrote: »
    Eyeballing is far less burdensome for me, but that's because I'm fairly relaxed about my weight loss. I shoot for a pound and a half per week...a pound makes me happy, 2 pounds makes me very happy. I don't have a particular goal weight, so I really don't understand the people who fight tooth and nail for the last 6 pounds.

    I say, do whatever works for you...maybe though, someone should start a group for people who don't weigh food. It's kinda lonely out here. I thought it was only me.

    There are actually a lot of people here who don't weigh; in fact, a lot of the "veteran" posters don't even log anymore. But since most posters are asking questions because they are struggling to lose weight, the easiest first answer is, "Start weighing and logging everything." Because it's hard to tell what someone is doing wrong if they have been eyeballing or not consistently logging. And that way they can see in black and white what is going wrong. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it :wink:

    As far as your second part, I am not quite happy with the shape I'm in, so I am trying to lose a little weight. I'm not fighting for a particular number, I'm just curious if another 5 lbs will make the difference. The food scale is second nature to me and does not cause me stress or use up extra time. I doubt that explanation would cover everyone (or even most) trying to lose a small number of lbs, but that's me. I also find having a goal helps me to continue to eat right! :drinker:
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    edited June 2016
    BiggDaddy58 wrote: »
    "All of this.
    Got a huge deficit you can do, you've got a ton of leeway for incorrect estimates. Take advantage of it. No reason to be nitpicky and make things difficult if you're being successful.
    When you don't have that much leeway, lots of people find that weight loss is not so easy. That's when weighing comes in. "

    Once again, I acknowledged this in my original post? I think perhaps some are taking offense w/o really reading what I wrote? I said "I know the weight comes off easier, when you are really overweight" and then "Maybe if I get down to 198 and have serious trouble losing anymore , I'll get more serious about it. But this is a lifestyle change, it should not, after time, require food scales and worrying over juice in a can..should it?"

    So I basically said in my original post exactly what you just said and a slew of people liked..which means nobody read what I posted..they rushed to post? This happens a lot in online forums.

    My thought is..as the first replier to my post said "those of us that got many years under our belts, we will stick with what we know and what works for us!"

    I never said CHANGE what you're doing. I didn't say it was dumb or incorrect or stupid. I simply thought, if you have years under your belt, I would think at some point you would be able to tell what you can eat, what is good for you, what to avoid, how much to eat and so on.

    My intent was not to antagonize people..or question what they were doing? I have only read a few thoughts, but that surely looks where the responses are headed to me. Defensive replies to what is perceived as an attack on what they do? That was not the intent of my original post.

    Just FYI - you might want to start using the quote button when you're responding to people. Otherwise, we don't get a notification. Plus, it makes it harder to find and read in the thread.

    I am confused as to why you'd think a number of posts basically agreeing with your initial statement equates to people taking offense. Or why you'd think that meant that people didn't read the OP. You said you got it, but you didn't. People posted to confirm that yes, you understand the concept but obviously didn't need to use it yet - understanding why you 'don't get it'. No offense taken there.

    Perhaps I should have mentioned that I've been in maintenance for years now, and still weigh and measure? Honestly, the only 'lifestyle change' I made is to be aware of how much I'm eating and how much I've been moving and balance the two. I'm short and light, so I pretty much have to weigh and measure in order to do that if I want to be able to eat things significantly more calorie dense than boneless skinless chicken breast and steamed veg regularly. And I do. I very much do.

    ETA: I don't weigh and measure at restaurants. No need for me, I usually eat out a couple of times a week and make sure to save up for those.
  • samhennings
    samhennings Posts: 441 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    samhennings wrote: »
    Do I understand why people weigh and measure? Of course, practically, I do.
    I suppose if the question was "Do I understand HOW people are able to do that" then the answer would be no, I really dont get it!

    Different personalities or different food preparation ways.

    I totally get it, horses for courses.

    Im not judging my way as better or worse, just as "what works for me".

    My personality is such that weighing everything would really grind me down and have me say "forget it" with the whole thing, thats how Im wired. If I keep it a little more 'casual' (though I am very conservative in how I judge) then I stick to it happily.

    I got the results I wanted, and as you are in maintenance I assume you did too, so its not as if one size fits all.

  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.

    Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.

    I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.

    It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.

    If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.

    Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.

    You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)

    To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.

    You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?

    In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.

    But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.

    Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.

    I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.

    It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.

    If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.

    Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.

    You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)

    To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.

    You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?

    In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.

    But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.

    So your premise is anyone who prefers using a certain tool to not using a certain tool is just wrong (AKA, doesn't "know" what you know). That can't be proven or disproven and there isn't really a way for anyone to engage with that.

    What you've posted above isn't "logic." It's just your opinion on what people who choose to use a scale don't know, based on your assumption of what is going on in our minds.

    Look at the logic of your statement "I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. "

    That's like, a travel guide saying I know the city, and then he gets in detours, delays, etc. but eventually gets you to your destination whereas other guides get their tourists to their destination expeditely.

    That's like, a new hire saying I know how to use the computer to produce a company letter, and she takes days to produce an average document, whereas people are known to be able to produce a great letter in an hour.

    But when I point out to the example travel guide and the new hire that they do not really know what they are doing, they fight back and say that's not logic; it's just my opinion. LOL.
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.

    Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.

    I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.

    It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.

    If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.

    Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.

    You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)

    To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.

    You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?

    In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.

    But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.

    I don't think you understand how condescending your comments in this thread have been.

    "In fact it's the right way if that's all you know"
    "Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)"
    "To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight."

    I guess you don't mean it that way?

    I use a food scale because I am naturally analytical and detail-oriented, I enjoy numbers and prefer accuracy. Not because I am not advanced enough to eyeball correct portion sizes. But I'm glad that way works for you!

    Frankly I don't think it's anything negative if it opens some people's eyes. In fact there are people who were wondering if they have to do weighing long term. You happen to not like what I write, a fact, so you see it as condescending. I already pointed out in previous post that it comes down to personality as how one interprets his/her surrounding.

    What I am doing is NOT unlike others telling struggling people to try this and that, especially weighing as a better way over not weighing (the struggling folks' way)
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.

    That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.

    Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.

    I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.

    It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.

    If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.

    Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.

    You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)

    To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.

    You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?

    In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.

    But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.

    I don't think you understand how condescending your comments in this thread have been.

    "In fact it's the right way if that's all you know"
    "Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors. :)"
    "To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight."

    I guess you don't mean it that way?

    I use a food scale because I am naturally analytical and detail-oriented, I enjoy numbers and prefer accuracy. Not because I am not advanced enough to eyeball correct portion sizes. But I'm glad that way works for you!

    Frankly I don't think it's anything negative if it opens some people's eyes. In fact there are people who were wondering if they have to do weighing long term. You happen to not like what I write, a fact, so you see it as condescending. I already pointed out in previous post that it comes down to personality as how one interprets his/her surrounding.

    What I am doing is NOT unlike others telling struggling people to try this and that, especially weighing as a better way over not weighing (the struggling folks' way)

    So the issue is not what you said, but that I can't read it objectively. Got it!
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