I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)
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endlessfall16 wrote: »I would like to ask so I could learn...
How much is excessive? And how long does this excessiveness have to take place before we run into the increased risks?
What is YMMV?
YMMV=Your Mileage May Vary
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure
(TDEE includes ALL the calories you spend in a day. Whether by existing (RMR), because of non exercise related daily movement and fidgeting (NEAT), because of the energy you spend converting the food you eat into usable energy (TEF), and because of deliberate exercise (EA).
In other words TDEE = RMR + NEAT + TEF + EA).
An "appropriate" deficit varies with the fat % of the person losing weight.
My opinion gathered from reading and perusing the interwebz these past 18months is that a deficit equal to 25% of TDEE is close to the limit of what a morbidly obese person who is not in immediate medical danger should be aiming for
A deficit equal to 20% of TDEE is more appropriate for someone who is approaching the level of being overweight.
Lower levels of overweight to normal weight sees the safest deficits probably drop to the 15% range
Within the normal weight range anywhere from 10% to 15% deficit depending on how little fat you have available, but it becomes impossible to only lose fat.
It is probably better in terms of lean mass preservation and to minimize adaptive thermogensis to generate the deficit, especially in the lower weight ranges, from a combination of caloric restriction and exercise as opposed to just through caloric restriction.
Exercise doesn't HAVE to heroic gym going. Starting from nothing, a simple walk is already exercise. It sure was for me.
For others who are in better shape and laugh at hearing about a walk being exercise... well one of my MFPeops though his 6 hour 100 mile bike ride on Sunday was not quite complete without a 24 mile (40km) 3 hour run.
So yeah, YMMV in terms of what is defined as exercise FOR YOU.
In any case, exercise and in particular resistance training are lean mass sparing.
Eating additional protein beyond the RDA (assuming there is no kidney damage hidden or known) is also lean mass sparing in the short term.
MFP defaults increase your protein goal beyond the RDA assuming you maintain the deficits I described above.
Based on a total guess that "normal" weight for you starts at around 180lbs, I would aim for 180g of protein a day without being obsessive if I missed up or down by a bit.
Also, quoting the interwebz.... "factors we can control that contribute to the likelihood of developing gallstones (which could result in our having our gallbladder removed via surgery) include obesity and, perhaps paradoxically, rapid weight loss."
Anyways. This is a major departure from why people weigh their food and it now becomes a why should I be losing weight in a sane manner.
My answer as to why you measure what you eat and what you spend properly is "so that you can eat the most you can while still achieving your goals".12 -
Thanks, PAV. I like what you wrote. Gonna take time to go through it.1
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PAV--enjoyed your reasoning and agree with it. Congratulations on a great loss. Even though you're using a shovel--you've made it.3
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I have very little to lose and even 100 cal more or less makes a big difference to me. So weighing my food (especially high calorie foods like peanut butter) is super important for me.1
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I think Im a lot like the OP.
I know if I went to the degree of weighing everything it would really adversely effect my adherence. It would make the whole situation stressful for me and ultimately derail what I was doing.
So instead I took to eye-balling 99% of things. If there was a packet of 4 chicken breast and I ate one, I entered one quarter of the packet weight. If course the breast could be a few grams heavier, but it could equally be a few grams lighter.
If I guesstimated food I went to a higher calorie number, if I guesstimated exercise I took a low number.
Ultimately I figured by doing this the unders and overs would average out and I would end up in the place I wanted to be.
And, ultimately, thats what happened. I lost weight almost to the gram as I should have.
Most importantly though, for me, its what meant I kept at it.
Do I understand why people weigh and measure? Of course, practically, I do.
I suppose if the question was "Do I understand HOW people are able to do that" then the answer would be no, I really dont get it!
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endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?10 -
samhennings wrote: »Do I understand why people weigh and measure? Of course, practically, I do.
I suppose if the question was "Do I understand HOW people are able to do that" then the answer would be no, I really dont get it!
Different personalities or different food preparation ways.
For example, eyeballing seems WAY more burdensome to me. Weighing makes logging (which I sometimes find burdensome and don't do currently at maintenance) LESS burdensome.
My dinner routine: take out and roast chicken breast (skin-on and bone-in, no package since from a farm), take out whatever vegetables I have on hand, take out some little potatoes. (Just one example, I eat lots of different things. This is a very simple dinner.)
Put in chicken and roast. When it's out, trying to guess at the size would be impossible and inaccurate and deciding what to log would be -- for me -- stressful. Putting my plate on the scale, cutting off the cooked chicken I want to eat until it's about 100 g and then logging that number, easy-peasy and no stress. Just part of putting the plate together. Similarly, before cooking I chop up the potatoes and the vegetables. Easy to plop them on a plate on the scale and weigh out about 100 g of potato and about 200 g or so (often more) of veg before cooking. Adds nothing of significance to the chop and put in the oven/on the stove routine. I note down the numbers on an envelope and when I'm checking my computer when the food is all cooking I log, as well as any oil used.
Another example is a simple pasta dish: weigh out the pasta (which I'd do anyway, since it's hard to estimate for me). Cook one serving (56 g) as a good amount and easy to log. Add a tsp of olive oil to a pan, chop up various veg and add them (weighing between the chopping and the tossing into the pan or if organized when creating a mis en place), note on an envelope. Sautee for a while, add some smoked salmon (weigh before tossing in) and olives (chop and weigh). Mix food together, eat.
Trying to estimate all this would be stressful and a pain for me. Putting them on the scale while cooking and noting them on an envelope adds no time or burden. I honestly don't see how the estimating could be perceived as somehow much less burdensome. But I accept that it's different personality types or different routines. Can you do the same?6 -
Eyeballing is far less burdensome for me, but that's because I'm fairly relaxed about my weight loss. I shoot for a pound and a half per week...a pound makes me happy, 2 pounds makes me very happy. I don't have a particular goal weight, so I really don't understand the people who fight tooth and nail for the last 6 pounds.
I say, do whatever works for you...maybe though, someone should start a group for people who don't weigh food. It's kinda lonely out here. I thought it was only me.1 -
eveandqsmom wrote: »Eyeballing is far less burdensome for me, but that's because I'm fairly relaxed about my weight loss. I shoot for a pound and a half per week...a pound makes me happy, 2 pounds makes me very happy. I don't have a particular goal weight, so I really don't understand the people who fight tooth and nail for the last 6 pounds.
I say, do whatever works for you...maybe though, someone should start a group for people who don't weigh food. It's kinda lonely out here. I thought it was only me.
There are actually a lot of people here who don't weigh; in fact, a lot of the "veteran" posters don't even log anymore. But since most posters are asking questions because they are struggling to lose weight, the easiest first answer is, "Start weighing and logging everything." Because it's hard to tell what someone is doing wrong if they have been eyeballing or not consistently logging. And that way they can see in black and white what is going wrong. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it
As far as your second part, I am not quite happy with the shape I'm in, so I am trying to lose a little weight. I'm not fighting for a particular number, I'm just curious if another 5 lbs will make the difference. The food scale is second nature to me and does not cause me stress or use up extra time. I doubt that explanation would cover everyone (or even most) trying to lose a small number of lbs, but that's me. I also find having a goal helps me to continue to eat right! :drinker:3 -
BiggDaddy58 wrote: »"All of this.
Got a huge deficit you can do, you've got a ton of leeway for incorrect estimates. Take advantage of it. No reason to be nitpicky and make things difficult if you're being successful.
When you don't have that much leeway, lots of people find that weight loss is not so easy. That's when weighing comes in. "
Once again, I acknowledged this in my original post? I think perhaps some are taking offense w/o really reading what I wrote? I said "I know the weight comes off easier, when you are really overweight" and then "Maybe if I get down to 198 and have serious trouble losing anymore , I'll get more serious about it. But this is a lifestyle change, it should not, after time, require food scales and worrying over juice in a can..should it?"
So I basically said in my original post exactly what you just said and a slew of people liked..which means nobody read what I posted..they rushed to post? This happens a lot in online forums.
My thought is..as the first replier to my post said "those of us that got many years under our belts, we will stick with what we know and what works for us!"
I never said CHANGE what you're doing. I didn't say it was dumb or incorrect or stupid. I simply thought, if you have years under your belt, I would think at some point you would be able to tell what you can eat, what is good for you, what to avoid, how much to eat and so on.
My intent was not to antagonize people..or question what they were doing? I have only read a few thoughts, but that surely looks where the responses are headed to me. Defensive replies to what is perceived as an attack on what they do? That was not the intent of my original post.
Just FYI - you might want to start using the quote button when you're responding to people. Otherwise, we don't get a notification. Plus, it makes it harder to find and read in the thread.
I am confused as to why you'd think a number of posts basically agreeing with your initial statement equates to people taking offense. Or why you'd think that meant that people didn't read the OP. You said you got it, but you didn't. People posted to confirm that yes, you understand the concept but obviously didn't need to use it yet - understanding why you 'don't get it'. No offense taken there.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that I've been in maintenance for years now, and still weigh and measure? Honestly, the only 'lifestyle change' I made is to be aware of how much I'm eating and how much I've been moving and balance the two. I'm short and light, so I pretty much have to weigh and measure in order to do that if I want to be able to eat things significantly more calorie dense than boneless skinless chicken breast and steamed veg regularly. And I do. I very much do.
ETA: I don't weigh and measure at restaurants. No need for me, I usually eat out a couple of times a week and make sure to save up for those.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Do I understand why people weigh and measure? Of course, practically, I do.
I suppose if the question was "Do I understand HOW people are able to do that" then the answer would be no, I really dont get it!
Different personalities or different food preparation ways.
I totally get it, horses for courses.
Im not judging my way as better or worse, just as "what works for me".
My personality is such that weighing everything would really grind me down and have me say "forget it" with the whole thing, thats how Im wired. If I keep it a little more 'casual' (though I am very conservative in how I judge) then I stick to it happily.
I got the results I wanted, and as you are in maintenance I assume you did too, so its not as if one size fits all.
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janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
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endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
I don't think you understand how condescending your comments in this thread have been.
"In fact it's the right way if that's all you know"
"Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors."
"To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight."
I guess you don't mean it that way?
I use a food scale because I am naturally analytical and detail-oriented, I enjoy numbers and prefer accuracy. Not because I am not advanced enough to eyeball correct portion sizes. But I'm glad that way works for you!11 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
So your premise is anyone who prefers using a certain tool to not using a certain tool is just wrong (AKA, doesn't "know" what you know). That can't be proven or disproven and there isn't really a way for anyone to engage with that.
What you've posted above isn't "logic." It's just your opinion on what people who choose to use a scale don't know, based on your assumption of what is going on in our minds.
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I use a food scale. I'm 5'3" and 112 pounds so I'm not trying to lose weight. Before I used a food scale I was undereating. Sure I could have just eaten more until I stopped losing weight but that most likely would have taken more time as it is trial and error. Using a food scale has shown me exactly how much I can eat and what my portions should look like. I also am all about data so I like being as accurate as I humanly can. It takes no time for me to do and doesn't hurt anyone else. The only time I don't use it is when I'm eating away from home. A food scale is just a tool, like a regular scale, exercise equipment, My Fitness Pal, or anything else anyone chooses to use on their journey.5
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janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
So your premise is anyone who prefers using a certain tool to not using a certain tool is just wrong (AKA, doesn't "know" what you know). That can't be proven or disproven and there isn't really a way for anyone to engage with that.
What you've posted above isn't "logic." It's just your opinion on what people who choose to use a scale don't know, based on your assumption of what is going on in our minds.
Look at the logic of your statement "I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. "
That's like, a travel guide saying I know the city, and then he gets in detours, delays, etc. but eventually gets you to your destination whereas other guides get their tourists to their destination expeditely.
That's like, a new hire saying I know how to use the computer to produce a company letter, and she takes days to produce an average document, whereas people are known to be able to produce a great letter in an hour.
But when I point out to the example travel guide and the new hire that they do not really know what they are doing, they fight back and say that's not logic; it's just my opinion. LOL.0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
I don't think you understand how condescending your comments in this thread have been.
"In fact it's the right way if that's all you know"
"Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors."
"To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight."
I guess you don't mean it that way?
I use a food scale because I am naturally analytical and detail-oriented, I enjoy numbers and prefer accuracy. Not because I am not advanced enough to eyeball correct portion sizes. But I'm glad that way works for you!
Frankly I don't think it's anything negative if it opens some people's eyes. In fact there are people who were wondering if they have to do weighing long term. You happen to not like what I write, a fact, so you see it as condescending. I already pointed out in previous post that it comes down to personality as how one interprets his/her surrounding.
What I am doing is NOT unlike others telling struggling people to try this and that, especially weighing as a better way over not weighing (the struggling folks' way)0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
So your premise is anyone who prefers using a certain tool to not using a certain tool is just wrong (AKA, doesn't "know" what you know). That can't be proven or disproven and there isn't really a way for anyone to engage with that.
What you've posted above isn't "logic." It's just your opinion on what people who choose to use a scale don't know, based on your assumption of what is going on in our minds.
Look at the logic of your statement "I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. "
That's like, a travel guide saying I know the city, and then he gets in detours, delays, etc. but eventually gets you to your destination whereas other guides get their tourists to their destination expeditely.
That's like, a new hire saying I know how to use the computer to produce a company letter, and she takes days to produce an average document, whereas people are known to be able to produce a great letter in an hour.
But when I point out to the example travel guide and the new hire that they do not really know what they are doing, they fight back and say that's not logic; it's just my opinion. LOL.
By that logic, nobody should ever use a tool that makes a task easier. People shouldn't use a GPS system, they shouldn't use maps, they shouldn't use street signs or landmarks, they shouldn't use word processing programs, they shouldn't use document templates. If they do, they just reveal that they don't know what they're doing.
I'm not sure where you're getting that I had the equivalent of "detours or delays" or taking days to produce a document when I wasn't weighing. I've done both, I understand both. Weighing works much better for me. This isn't because I don't understand how to use a measuring cup.
I'm not sure what insecurity you're attempting to dispel here, but it's odd how you insist that anyone who uses a tool you don't is somehow doing it wrong or doesn't know what you know.
18 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
I don't think you understand how condescending your comments in this thread have been.
"In fact it's the right way if that's all you know"
"Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors."
"To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight."
I guess you don't mean it that way?
I use a food scale because I am naturally analytical and detail-oriented, I enjoy numbers and prefer accuracy. Not because I am not advanced enough to eyeball correct portion sizes. But I'm glad that way works for you!
Frankly I don't think it's anything negative if it opens some people's eyes. In fact there are people who were wondering if they have to do weighing long term. You happen to not like what I write, a fact, so you see it as condescending. I already pointed out in previous post that it comes down to personality as how one interprets his/her surrounding.
What I am doing is NOT unlike others telling struggling people to try this and that, especially weighing as a better way over not weighing (the struggling folks' way)
So the issue is not what you said, but that I can't read it objectively. Got it!4 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
You're still assuming it is "all I know." I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. I'm not choosing this out of not knowing what is out there. I'm choosing it because I know what options are available and this is what works best for me. Why is that so hard to understand?
In my book, that means you don't know not weighing.
But enough debating like this. If you don't understand my logic above, I doubt any more debating would help.
So your premise is anyone who prefers using a certain tool to not using a certain tool is just wrong (AKA, doesn't "know" what you know). That can't be proven or disproven and there isn't really a way for anyone to engage with that.
What you've posted above isn't "logic." It's just your opinion on what people who choose to use a scale don't know, based on your assumption of what is going on in our minds.
Look at the logic of your statement "I've tried not weighing, it didn't work well for me. "
That's like, a travel guide saying I know the city, and then he gets in detours, delays, etc. but eventually gets you to your destination whereas other guides get their tourists to their destination expeditely.
That's like, a new hire saying I know how to use the computer to produce a company letter, and she takes days to produce an average document, whereas people are known to be able to produce a great letter in an hour.
But when I point out to the example travel guide and the new hire that they do not really know what they are doing, they fight back and say that's not logic; it's just my opinion. LOL.
I just want to point out that this is actually the opposite of using a food scale.
The food scale user goes to the city has a map and exact train times. The non weigher is the one who says the train comes about every ten minutes and that the destination is approximately five miles away.12
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