I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)
Replies
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[quote="VioletRojo;36724707
Because it's not about what you eat, but how much. I gained weight eating healthy, whole foods. I lost weight eating healthy, whole foods, just less of them. I I were to rely on eyeballing or satiety cues, I'd never be able to maintain my weight; that's what got me in trouble in the first place.
I did the math one time and I gained my weight eating only about 180 extra calories a day. Those 180 calories crept up on me slowly over time. 180 calories doesn't seem like much, but it's incredibly easy to eat 180 unneeded calories a day if you're not watching it. Weighing is how I watch it.
[/quote]
Violet...Thanks..makes perfect sense..and WOW..only 180 extra calories a day. This is something I can file in my memory banks..as in..down the road..if I am uncertain of calories in..I'd like to make sure, I burn some extra calories..just in case..
Appreciate your thoughts!0 -
All..I have time for tonight..I do sincerely appreciate people's thoughts and opinions. My wife had Knee replacement surgery recently and my duties as Home Health Care are calling. (On a side note..she has lost about 15 pounds..but not because of a Healthy diet or exercise..as she has been tied to the bed and chair..and moving about slowly as she recuperates.
I wish you all great success on your own personal journey!
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bellabonbons wrote: »The moment I have to weigh food is a moment I stop dieting. But I do measure. Love MFP. 26 pounds and will have reached my goal. Whatever works we must find the diet that works for us and for me counting calories is amazing. Because I can enjoy all the foods I love while I lose weight.
Measuring is pretty much just as much effort if not more. For example if you buy oatmeal in bulk and want to make it for breakfast i could use a measuring cup and scoop it in a bowl. Or I could just place the bowl on the scale and dump it in until it hits 1 serving. This is A more accurate and B half as many dishes to wash. Same goes for a bunch of other stuff. Now if it's something like a hotdog and hotdog bun I won't bother but it's actually easier than a measuring cup and more accurate. My scale starts at 0 if I turn it on with a bowl on it already so if I want some chips or cereal it's just a matter of throwing some in and recording the number. Or if I buy stuff sold in small containers I can just put the container on the scale and take a few out an I'll get a negative number. That negative number is what I ate.
So much this! Yes, it's easier than measuring. I make a lot of soft tacos and it's just so wonderful to build the thing atop my food scale. If I were to measure out meat, cheese, shredded lettuce, pico de gallo, sour cream it would be ridiculous. It also allows me more food later, because I never have the default amounts on there! I don't want a quarter cup of cheese on a taco!2 -
Totally understand what you are saying! I'm on a 1200 calorie diet & do 2 x gym sessions a day. Morning is cardio & arvo is cardio & light weights. In 4 wks i've lost 4kgs and i'm hoping this will continue. I think you still have to enjoy life & honestly who can bring scales around with them all day everyday? Good luck peoples!0
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endlessfall16 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
If you care to follow my previous posts, I have addressed every single point you mentioned here. But here goes again:
I do not think anything right or wrong. However, I do consider effectiveness, and when I shared my approach it was mainly to reply to the OP or those who were looking for something better than weighing. The weighers, counters voluntarily jumped in to defend their approach.
At this point I'm not following any time line for a good reason. I only mentioned it to be comprehensive. I'm already at normal bmi and started getting comments from those knowing me that I look too thin. Plus, I'm watching my sports performance. Also, life quality comes first, before additional 4, 5 lbs loss to reach a goal that I arbitrary made up. I don't want to skip father day, graduation parties, etc. so 4, 5 lbs gain, that is if I can't offset them, is still meaningless in time frame of 2, 3 weeks.
Most of us have typically gained and lived for years with 20, 50 lbs. It's up to you to have whatever perspective on the time line for loss and progress.
I'm not writing a complete diet book to deal with every situation for everyone. I simply replied piece meal to certain questions. You seem to be trying too hard to discredit my points.
You and I will have to differ on what is better and what is not. Let's just leave it as that.
I am not discrediting your points in the context of what works for you personally. It's good for you and the people it works for. I'm explaining why what applies to you doesn't apply to everyone. I'm explaining why it's not better for everyone, why it's not the most effective for everyone. In particular, it's not effective for someone on a timeline or someone who doesn't have the same hunger signals, as I illustrated.
You keep using the word "better," therefore you do think there is a right and a wrong. If you'd say "different" or "better for me," I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you're being awfully condescending to people who don't do it your way by implying your way is better, in all contexts, than theirs.
You know when you have to use "everyone" in your argument, you're scrapping the barrel.
This begins to look like a straw man argument now.
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BiggDaddy58 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I weigh 108. When I weighed an orange I ate recently, I found it was 40 calories more than what I had initially logged (based on eye-balling the fruit). For my calorie goal, that's a big deal.
Others may have more wiggle room, but when you are dealing with fewer calories, accuracy can be important.
Yes and no. I only had about 14lbs to lose at the end of 2009 and by the time that I joined MFP I had already lost 6 lbs without counting calories. I lost the rest and got to maintenance by just measuring, estimating, and even using some generic entries in this database. I didn't get a food scale until I reached maintenance and that was almost 6 years ago. The only reason to get the scale was to count my macros.
I am now hooked to the scale few times a week. I don't take the scale with me when on vacation, eating out or a friends house; heck I don't even estimate or log when I don't make the meals myself. I am trying to break the scale "umbilical cord."
So it is possible to lose weight and even maintain without a scale, but I agree that it may take more time; so if people don't mind and have good eating habits and are aware of what and how much they are eating, just let it be.
After all we are all special snow flakes...
Gisel..Thank you..I don't want to be tied to a scale or Internet site or app on my phone the rest of my life. I know it is hard to lose weight and then KEEP IT OFF..but at some point..aren't we all wanting to cut the umbilical cord of whatever it is that we're tied to?
For me the scales are a last ditch effort. I tried mindful eating, portion control, and "eyeballing". I got satisfactory results with those methods for a while. But when I stalled and then the stall turned into a long plateau I realized that I have to tighten up and pay closer attention.
I joined MFP in May but still haven't gotten the hang of measuring, weighing and counting calories and have not lost weight. I guess I am dragging my heels and not looking forward to "counting" and think about numbers every time I eat something.
Over 20 years I managed to get 20 pounds overweight. I've lost 1/2 of that and only have 10 pounds more to lose. But the current weight refuses to budge. I have gained and lost the same 4 pounds over and over for a long time during this last plateau.
In my earlier years I could gain 10 pounds over the winter and lose the 10 "vanity" pounds in the spring in about a month or two just in time for bikini weather by concentrating and cutting back without counting or measuring. I hate the idea of weighing but am willing to give it a go to see if I can get this weight to leave.0 -
BiggDaddy58 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I weigh 108. When I weighed an orange I ate recently, I found it was 40 calories more than what I had initially logged (based on eye-balling the fruit). For my calorie goal, that's a big deal.
Others may have more wiggle room, but when you are dealing with fewer calories, accuracy can be important.
Yes and no. I only had about 14lbs to lose at the end of 2009 and by the time that I joined MFP I had already lost 6 lbs without counting calories. I lost the rest and got to maintenance by just measuring, estimating, and even using some generic entries in this database. I didn't get a food scale until I reached maintenance and that was almost 6 years ago. The only reason to get the scale was to count my macros.
I am now hooked to the scale few times a week. I don't take the scale with me when on vacation, eating out or a friends house; heck I don't even estimate or log when I don't make the meals myself. I am trying to break the scale "umbilical cord."
So it is possible to lose weight and even maintain without a scale, but I agree that it may take more time; so if people don't mind and have good eating habits and are aware of what and how much they are eating, just let it be.
After all we are all special snow flakes...
Gisel..Thank you..I don't want to be tied to a scale or Internet site or app on my phone the rest of my life. I know it is hard to lose weight and then KEEP IT OFF..but at some point..aren't we all wanting to cut the umbilical cord of whatever it is that we're tied to?
For me the scales are a last ditch effort. I tried mindful eating, portion control, and "eyeballing". I got satisfactory results with those methods for a while. But when I stalled and then the stall turned into a long plateau I realized that I have to tighten up and pay closer attention.
I joined MFP in May but haven't gotten the hang of measuring, weighing and counting calories. I have always cut back on portions in the past and have never gotten over 20 pounds overweight. I've lost 1/2 of that and only have 10 pounds more to lose.
In my earlier years I could gain 10 pounds over the winter and lose the 10 "vanity" pounds in the spring in about a month or two just concentrating and cutting back without counting or measuring.
This is my first attempt to calorie count which I had always thought was excessive before now. I can empathize and sympathize with everyone who weighs and/or measures. People who never have to deal with trouble dropping pounds won't understand until/if they get to this point. That is not me anymore, so I have to do what needs to be done, much to my chagrin. I hate the idea of weighing but am willing to give it a go.
Unfortunately, as we "grow up" we have to learn to change things up. Doing what works at different phases of our life is not something to be ashamed of. Sometimes you have to get creative and try new things to get to where you're trying to go. The wonderful thing about MFP is that it's an opportunity to tap alot of ideas and experiences. Even Endlessfall, who has delivery problems, has interesting ideas if you cut out all the crap. I may have used those ideas in the past, and they are no longer successful, but he is successful and satisfied. Alot of people hate weighing and hate logging, and may be able to gain something from his posts. I thank him for explaining and it would be nice if he started a thread so others like him would share their secrets---then we wouldn't have to be jealous.0 -
Hi there BigDaddy58! Firstly well done on your weight loss that's really good. I have lost so far a total of a stone and one pound so i understand how great you feel. I am a twenty year old female, I am 5'8 in height and currently 10.12 in weight giving me a previous weight of 11.13. The highest I have ever weighed was six years ago at my mum and stepdads wedding where I weighed 13.3. I joined MFP when I went to Tenerife last year and lost six pounds and in a bit to loose more weight I have joined again. Personally I think that whatever age you are it is always important to do some form exercise and eat the right things your body needs. I know for a fact that most adults where I live don't take care of there health but when I go to the gym and see local older people there I think "You know what good for you for trying be healthy and keep in shape at 60 or whatever." However this will probably be worse in the USA. I also believe that when we do diet numbers are the only thing we live off e.g how many calories are in a packet of peanuts or crisps. I watched a programmee all about calories on the BBC Iplayer and what it was saying is if you consume more calories than your burning off throughout exercising you will get fat, and obviously you will not if you do the vice versa. I know for a fact that I can be a calorie mad because I asked a friend and she has said this to me, but I think it's just because I care alot about my body and physical apperance. I have a intake of 1000 as that is the amount apparently you should be having if you like to loose weight. Although given how crazy I can be about my calories I do have my guilt foods which are as follows: chocolate (i rarely eat this) and whenever my mum cooks meat things in a tomatoe sauce, chilli or fajitas, i love them all so much! It would be very boring if we all just went out with our friends, families and partners and just had salads all the time. I love salad don't get me wrong but life is to short to say no to a little bit of the sweet stuff like pizza and ice cream. I know as a young person lots of eating problems occur in women and I do not think I am one of them so thank the lord I don't have a fussy appetite. It's not just the self esteem side of things, aswell I want to live a long happy healthy life and I can't really be doing that by sitting around on my big bum all daya nd eat takeaways and smoking can I? I know I am no doctor or gym trainer but this is just how I feel on personal experience. Have a great day everyone.0
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GeorgiaKett wrote: »Hi there BigDaddy58! Firstly well done on your weight loss that's really good. I have lost so far a total of a stone and one pound so i understand how great you feel. I am a twenty year old female, I am 5'8 in height and currently 10.12 in weight giving me a previous weight of 11.13. The highest I have ever weighed was six years ago at my mum and stepdads wedding where I weighed 13.3. I joined MFP when I went to Tenerife last year and lost six pounds and in a bit to loose more weight I have joined again. Personally I think that whatever age you are it is always important to do some form exercise and eat the right things your body needs. I know for a fact that most adults where I live don't take care of there health but when I go to the gym and see local older people there I think "You know what good for you for trying be healthy and keep in shape at 60 or whatever." However this will probably be worse in the USA. I also believe that when we do diet numbers are the only thing we live off e.g how many calories are in a packet of peanuts or crisps. I watched a programmee all about calories on the BBC Iplayer and what it was saying is if you consume more calories than your burning off throughout exercising you will get fat, and obviously you will not if you do the vice versa. I know for a fact that I can be a calorie mad because I asked a friend and she has said this to me, but I think it's just because I care alot about my body and physical apperance. I have a intake of 1000 as that is the amount apparently you should be having if you like to loose weight. Although given how crazy I can be about my calories I do have my guilt foods which are as follows: chocolate (i rarely eat this) and whenever my mum cooks meat things in a tomatoe sauce, chilli or fajitas, i love them all so much! It would be very boring if we all just went out with our friends, families and partners and just had salads all the time. I love salad don't get me wrong but life is to short to say no to a little bit of the sweet stuff like pizza and ice cream. I know as a young person lots of eating problems occur in women and I do not think I am one of them so thank the lord I don't have a fussy appetite. It's not just the self esteem side of things, aswell I want to live a long happy healthy life and I can't really be doing that by sitting around on my big bum all daya nd eat takeaways and smoking can I? I know I am no doctor or gym trainer but this is just how I feel on personal experience. Have a great day everyone.
You are new here, so you have to know that under 1200 calories for a woman is forbidden on MFP. Alot of young women cut way too low and 1000 cal is to low for most--unless you are doctor supervised.1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »BiggDaddy58 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I weigh 108. When I weighed an orange I ate recently, I found it was 40 calories more than what I had initially logged (based on eye-balling the fruit). For my calorie goal, that's a big deal.
Others may have more wiggle room, but when you are dealing with fewer calories, accuracy can be important.
Yes and no. I only had about 14lbs to lose at the end of 2009 and by the time that I joined MFP I had already lost 6 lbs without counting calories. I lost the rest and got to maintenance by just measuring, estimating, and even using some generic entries in this database. I didn't get a food scale until I reached maintenance and that was almost 6 years ago. The only reason to get the scale was to count my macros.
I am now hooked to the scale few times a week. I don't take the scale with me when on vacation, eating out or a friends house; heck I don't even estimate or log when I don't make the meals myself. I am trying to break the scale "umbilical cord."
So it is possible to lose weight and even maintain without a scale, but I agree that it may take more time; so if people don't mind and have good eating habits and are aware of what and how much they are eating, just let it be.
After all we are all special snow flakes...
Gisel..Thank you..I don't want to be tied to a scale or Internet site or app on my phone the rest of my life. I know it is hard to lose weight and then KEEP IT OFF..but at some point..aren't we all wanting to cut the umbilical cord of whatever it is that we're tied to?
For me the scales are a last ditch effort. I tried mindful eating, portion control, and "eyeballing". I got satisfactory results with those methods for a while. But when I stalled and then the stall turned into a long plateau I realized that I have to tighten up and pay closer attention.
I joined MFP in May but haven't gotten the hang of measuring, weighing and counting calories. I have always cut back on portions in the past and have never gotten over 20 pounds overweight. I've lost 1/2 of that and only have 10 pounds more to lose.
In my earlier years I could gain 10 pounds over the winter and lose the 10 "vanity" pounds in the spring in about a month or two just concentrating and cutting back without counting or measuring.
This is my first attempt to calorie count which I had always thought was excessive before now. I can empathize and sympathize with everyone who weighs and/or measures. People who never have to deal with trouble dropping pounds won't understand until/if they get to this point. That is not me anymore, so I have to do what needs to be done, much to my chagrin. I hate the idea of weighing but am willing to give it a go.
Unfortunately, as we "grow up" we have to learn to change things up. Doing what works at different phases of our life is not something to be ashamed of. Sometimes you have to get creative and try new things to get to where you're trying to go. The wonderful thing about MFP is that it's an opportunity to tap alot of ideas and experiences. Even Endlessfall, who has delivery problems, has interesting ideas if you cut out all the crap. I may have used those ideas in the past, and they are no longer successful, but he is successful and satisfied. Alot of people hate weighing and hate logging, and may be able to gain something from his posts. I thank him for explaining and it would be nice if he started a thread so others like him would share their secrets---then we wouldn't have to be jealous.
Even after I "grew up" I successfully used intuitive eating and portion control for a long time and will go back to it when I get to maintenance unless the pounds creep back up. Either technique works very well, as you know. It is easier not to weigh IMO.
Many people on MFP seem not to mind weighing and have been successful losing, so I plan to try to get the hang of it and "change things up".0 -
"Tractors" are great for moving a hill of dirt, "shovels" are best for precision.
OP obviously understands this concept, as indicated in original post.
So- why ask why? Nothing new to be learned.0 -
BiggDaddy58 wrote: »I understand all the weighing of food, and worrying over whether it's 3.5 cups or 3.2 cups and whether it's actually 100 calories or maybe 150 calories. I get it. However, it doesn't make much sense to me. This is just MY opinion. Unless you're training for the Olympics, weighing in for a title fight and have to make weight, or are some world class athlete, or possibly for SERIOUS health issues, I really do not get it...
I do not weigh much of my food at all. I have a food scale and use it IF I have something which actually requires me to use it. Otherwise I use the information listed on the package or what MFP has for it. I started on Feb 29th at 308 # and weigh in Monday at 255.2# a loss of 52.8# in 98 days...
...I know the weight comes off easier, when you are really overweight, however. if you know your BMR, your TDEE and your approximate calorie intake, along with your ballpark calorie output, you can lose weight, or maintain, w/o weighing things, and worrying about little things? I know everyone is different
-->but I really don't get it.<--
(Unless you fall in those certain categories I mentioned)
Maybe if I get down to 198 and have serious trouble losing anymore , I'll get more serious about it. But this is a lifestyle change
--->> it should not, after time, require food scales and worrying over juice in a can..should it?<---
I am not suggesting that you stop using a food scale, or stop trying to determine how many calories you input and how many you output, but at some point it is
-->>overdoing it..isn't it?<--
Not a knock on people who use whatever tools they wish for success. I wish everyone a successful journey on whatever course they've chosen.
YMMV as always
I think putting the debate into "should" or "shouldn't" makes people think in terms of "right" or "wrong". You are clearly saying that weighing and counting calories (in your opinion) is "overdoing it" FOR YOU. And it appears that you are acknowledging others may need to weigh, but you say you don't get it unless we fall into the other categories nentioned? So you do actually get it! 0
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