"Starvation Mode" and How to Fix

135

Replies

  • beatyfamily1
    beatyfamily1 Posts: 257 Member
    T nation is geared towards juiced lifters and is full of bioscience.

    Not everybody on there juices. It does appear that way at first, but you just have to get past the cover of it all. Bioscience is one of their ways of making money like MFP uses ads, merchandise, and the premium subscription or whatever it's called. Yes they do implement one of their products every now and then in their articles, but they offer other ways of dealing with whatever the topic is besides a supplement.
  • beatyfamily1
    beatyfamily1 Posts: 257 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.
  • suzyjane1972
    suzyjane1972 Posts: 612 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.

    Actually no he doesn't have to be an md to class himself as a physician....its misleading. He doesn't state he's an md just a doctor.....
  • Wynterbourne
    Wynterbourne Posts: 2,235 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.

    Actually no he doesn't have to be an md to class himself as a physician....its misleading. He doesn't state he's an md just a doctor.....

    He has a bachelors of science in Biochemistry and a doctorate in Naturopathic Medicine. I think I'll pass. Not the guy I'm taking medical advice from, sorry.
  • malioumba
    malioumba Posts: 132 Member
    Thermogenic adaptation, metabolic adaptation; 'starvation mode' stems from those concepts - don't know why people so vehemently deny the colloquial term. Hm. Oh well
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited June 2016
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.

    Actually no he doesn't have to be an md to class himself as a physician....its misleading. He doesn't state he's an md just a doctor.....

    He has a bachelors of science in Biochemistry and a doctorate in Naturopathic Medicine. I think I'll pass. Not the guy I'm taking medical advice from, sorry.

    Why are doctorates in naturopathy even a thing?

    Because people like the author of the article referenced in the OP will pay good money for the ability to call themselves a "doctor."
  • MissusMoon
    MissusMoon Posts: 1,900 Member
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.

    Actually no he doesn't have to be an md to class himself as a physician....its misleading. He doesn't state he's an md just a doctor.....

    He has a bachelors of science in Biochemistry and a doctorate in Naturopathic Medicine. I think I'll pass. Not the guy I'm taking medical advice from, sorry.

    Why are doctorates in naturopathy even a thing?

    I have a relative who has a doctorate in something like 18th century French fashion. So she has the title of "doctor" too. It means about as much to me as an ND, medically speaking.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    edited June 2016
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    MissusMoon wrote: »
    It's not just his bias. As a naturepath, he's not a physician. He is not a medical doctor, and he believes in some silly things as pointed out by others.

    He actually states. "I'm an integrative physician." As you know a physician is someone who is legally qualified to practice medicine. In his case he practices naturopathic medicine. He is an integrative physician specializing in natural health, fitness and body transformation. What kind of doctor would you want for this type of issue? I find it funny how everyone seems to think I shouldn't listen to what this doctor says because they say so with no references to contradict the issue or qualifications to correct it otherwise, but the author who is more than qualified as a practicing physician in this field of study is supposedly not qualified because he's not a "medical doctor" by whatever standards that means to you.

    Actually no he doesn't have to be an md to class himself as a physician....its misleading. He doesn't state he's an md just a doctor.....

    He has a bachelors of science in Biochemistry and a doctorate in Naturopathic Medicine. I think I'll pass. Not the guy I'm taking medical advice from, sorry.

    Why are doctorates in naturopathy even a thing?

    I have a relative who has a doctorate in something like 18th century French fashion. So she has the title of "doctor" too. It means about as much to me as an ND, medically speaking.

    WHAT DID NORTH DAKOTA EVER DO TO YOU?!?!?!


    So, I read the article, and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. And some of the information is often said here, just not in reference to "shades of starvation mode".

    The first stage seems like people are feeling sluggish; people often tell them to eat more and move more. If you're cutting too hard, you could lose energy, so I could see this one (although I think the move more needs to be couched in assess what you're doing and make sure you're in a moderate deficit based on your caloric needs).

    The second one seems to address diet breaks (sort of), but I think having a higher calorie goal (plus more exercise) every 2-3 weeks is kind of odd. Rest days are important, and many people find diet breaks useful (especially mentally), but in theory eating more and exercising more maintains the same deficit, so I don't know that I get the point? And that's a very frequent cycle. Ugh; so much change.

    And the "final stage" recommendation of eat less, move less doesn't make sense to me either. (Again unless this is couched in take a break from exercise and eat at a small deficit.) If that isn't what they mean, I don't understand how dropping your calories even further would help you "recover".
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited June 2016
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    What reasons do you think are being ignored?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited June 2016
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Isn't it the person herself (or himself) who can identify why? Sure, research into such things as environmental factors or what foods are more satisfying, on average (as this varies), and hormonal factors are all good things to know and supplement your understanding with, but there is no one-size-fits-all reason why a particular person is eating more than he or she should. That's why the most important thing is to admit that's the case and then think through why it is and come up with a plan that fits you. Starvation mode as typically understood (as well as Teta's theories, to some degree, although he also says some thing I agree with) seem designed to allow people to avoid the acknowledgement that they are indeed eating too much -- to claim, as I've amazingly seen lots of people do on MFP over my time here, that they got fat because they just eat too little and struggle to eat more.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    edited June 2016
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    What reasons do you think are being ignored?

    I just listened to the whole podcast AlabasterVerve mentioned on the Obesity Journal Study: It's not just CICO thread called "Why Do We Overeat? Homeostatic vs. Non-Homeostatic Eating ". That podcast discussion rang true to me. (I tried to put the link on here but couldn't. Maybe someone can bring it over?)
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    Because most people who talk about "starvation mode" don't mean it in a way that equates to thermogenic or metabolic adaptation. They believe that eating too little causes them to gain weight, which is a total myth.

    That is the crux of it.

  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    What reasons do you think are being ignored?

    I just listened to the whole podcast AlabasterVerve mentioned on the Obesity Journal Study: It's not just CICO thread called "Why Do We Overeat? Homeostatic vs. Non-Homeostatic Eating ". That podcast discussion rang true to me. (I tried to put the link on here but couldn't. Maybe someone can bring it over?)

    This?

    https://medium.com/@dannylennon/why-do-we-overeat-homeostatic-vs-non-homeostatic-eating-1d2e8e33ddce#.63y2auqhy
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    I'm just going to assume "YOUR" here means MFP mean people in general and not just me because I haven't said it in this thread because this discussion is about "starvation mode" or lack thereof in the the general population of westerners/countries with no food access issues. And in that context the why of why people overeat is totally irrelevant to this debate, which is about adaptive thermogenesis and fixing it and trying to tell vast swathes of people that this is an issue they both need to worry about and fix. Which is patently untrue.

    The psychological, environmental and even basic poor tracking of intake reasons to lack of weight loss are for a different debate.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    I'm just going to assume "YOUR" here means MFP mean people in general and not just me because I haven't said it in this thread because this discussion is about "starvation mode" or lack thereof in the the general population of westerners/countries with no food access issues. And in that context the why of why people overeat is totally irrelevant to this debate, which is about adaptive thermogenesis and fixing it and trying to tell vast swathes of people that this is an issue they both need to worry about and fix. Which is patently untrue.

    The psychological, environmental and even basic poor tracking of intake reasons to lack of weight loss are for a different debate.

    Ugh. Sorry. Misquoted again. I wasn't responding to your post. I'm not used to using my cell phone. (My ipad fell on the tile floor and shattered to bits). Thanks for the heads up so I can be more diligent to hit quote button on the right posts.
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    What reasons do you think are being ignored?

    I just listened to the whole podcast AlabasterVerve mentioned on the Obesity Journal Study: It's not just CICO thread called "Why Do We Overeat? Homeostatic vs. Non-Homeostatic Eating ". That podcast discussion rang true to me. (I tried to put the link on here but couldn't. Maybe someone can bring it over?)

    This?

    https://medium.com/@dannylennon/why-do-we-overeat-homeostatic-vs-non-homeostatic-eating-1d2e8e33ddce#.63y2auqhy

    Yes thanks. The podcast interview is at the bottom of the article.
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    I'm just going to assume "YOUR" here means MFP mean people in general and not just me because I haven't said it in this thread because this discussion is about "starvation mode" or lack thereof in the the general population of westerners/countries with no food access issues. And in that context the why of why people overeat is totally irrelevant to this debate, which is about adaptive thermogenesis and fixing it and trying to tell vast swathes of people that this is an issue they both need to worry about and fix. Which is patently untrue.

    The psychological, environmental and even basic poor tracking of intake reasons to lack of weight loss are for a different debate.

    Good point. I think I might start a new thread so we can have this discussion.

    @DebSozo Would you like to participate?
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

    Nor is telling them "cos starvation mode".

    That is true. What is YOUR point? You say, "Eating too much". But there are reasons why that you are ignoring.

    I'm just going to assume "YOUR" here means MFP mean people in general and not just me because I haven't said it in this thread because this discussion is about "starvation mode" or lack thereof in the the general population of westerners/countries with no food access issues. And in that context the why of why people overeat is totally irrelevant to this debate, which is about adaptive thermogenesis and fixing it and trying to tell vast swathes of people that this is an issue they both need to worry about and fix. Which is patently untrue.

    The psychological, environmental and even basic poor tracking of intake reasons to lack of weight loss are for a different debate.

    Good point. I think I might start a new thread so we can have this discussion.

    @DebSozo Would you like to participate?

    Sure!
  • DebSozo
    DebSozo Posts: 2,578 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but one article on t-nation.com by someone with "Dr." before their name doesn't make something real.

    Dr. Jade Teta is a naturapath who makes a living selling books, workout programs, and training through his weight loss company whose primary message is "fixing" metabolic problems. In other words, he is far from an unbiased author.

    Adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing, but it's not something the average dieter needs to worry about. If you severely restrict calories over a very long period of time, your metabolism will slow down over time. But we are talking about a large deficit over a long period of time with no breaks. That's why if you have a lot of weight to lose that will take years to complete, it is recommended that you take a couple of weeks every 3 or 4 months and eat at maintenance. But even though it's a real thing, it won't stop you from losing weight, it just slows it down a little. Otherwise anorexics, people who go on hunger fasts, starving people in war-torn countries wouldn't get to the point where they were skin and bones, they would just get sluggish wouldn't they?

    That's the point of the article. I think people automatically get defensive because of the words "starvation mode" when in fact the article is talking about the different levels of metabolic damage and if you do have metabolic damage there's ways to fix it depending on what level you are in. Obviously, this article doesn't apply to everyone. Everyone knows you can still lose weight if you are on a really low calorie diet. It may not be healthy, but it's still possible. You can't argue the fact people do hit plateaus. What cause their plateau could be a variety of reasons. What is the number on stated phrase on here? Weight loss is not linear. For most people it's likely they are eating too many calories. The metabolic rate will slow down as you lose weight and will take much more to continue losing at the same rate because the body does not burn as many calories as it did when at a much higher weight. The smaller the body, the less energy it takes to operate. There are people out there that do have metabolic damage, but may not know it. I personally did experience something like this. I don't know if it was actually metabolic damage, but when I stopped losing weight I took a break because I was actually hungrier than before I started losing weight. Then I got back on to my routine and weight loss jump started again. This was way before I came across this article. For me it explained something that I couldn't explain. I thought it was an interesting read. People can do with it what they want.

    As far as the biased author, I personally don't feel selling other products for income devalues his opinion. Personal trainers, nutritionists, and even medical doctors do it. It doesn't mean his opinion is worthless. If he did not have the references he stated in the article then I would question it. I personally thought it was a valid article. He is a integrative physician. This is what he does: he practices healing oriented medicine that includes both alternative as well as conventional medicine.

    I would respectfully disagree, that's not the point of the article. The point of the article is to convince anyone who's having trouble losing weight that they have experienced metabolic damage so they will then buy his book. ***When the real problem is something much more simple, like they are eating too much.

    ***This is the post and statement I was attempting to reply to.
This discussion has been closed.