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Forbidden vs not wanting
rybo
Posts: 5,424 Member
in Debate Club
Does this simple change in semantics & mindset make a difference? You see so many people spouting that nothing is forbidden & no foods should be excluded. What if you simply choose not to eat something any longer because you just don't want to? Does the reason matter?
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Replies
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Definitely not. It's totally up to you what you put into your body. For some people cutting out certain foods helps them, for other people eating everything in smaller portions is what works. If you don't want something because you decide that's the right choice for you, don't let people tell you otherwise.7
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For me, knowing what my goals are helps me decide that I don't want to eat something and not longingly crave something. Does this food help me reach my goals (happiness and a feeling of satisfaction from eating is a goal as well as nutritional and weightloss/gain ones)? There's nothing I suppose that I'd consider completely forbidden, except anise or dill, because that crap is nasty.4
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I think forbidding something often leads to not wanting it eventually.3
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I think there's definitely a difference. When someone says a food is forbidden from their diet automatically people comment saying you shouldn't forbid foods, that that's setting yourself up for failure and binging. I have cut foods from my diet because I want to, not because I think they're bad foods that will make me put on weight, but because I don't want to eat them anymore. I've never once craved any of the foods I cut out of my diet and am enjoying every meal I eat. I think forbidden foods are thought of as a punishment but that's only if you really want to eat that forbidden food, which I don't.0
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I didn't forbid anything, but I had a food allergy that I was trying to pinpoint and it turned out to be sulfates/sulfites. It turns out most boxed pasta has ferrous sulfate. I was never a huge pasta eater to begin with, but now I just don't touch any of it at all much to the chagrin of my Italian mother. Same with most bread products, low quality baked goods, pizza, etc. However, when I find any desserts or pizza without any sulfur derivatives, they're fair game.1
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There are things that I used to eat that I don't any more because they don't seem worth the calories to me. If I wanted them, I would have them. But I don't.
It's like how I used to get pedicures but then I realized that the enjoyment they gave me wasn't worth the money I was spending. I can afford pedicures, I just don't get them. Maybe someday I'll get them again, maybe I'll never have another one.
When I tell myself that I *can't* have something that I want, I tend to dwell on it. But the things I don't want . . . I just don't want them.5 -
Does this simple change in semantics & mindset make a difference? You see so many people spouting that nothing is forbidden & no foods should be excluded. What if you simply choose not to eat something any longer because you just don't want to? Does the reason matter?
Typically that is being said (don't forbid) to people who label food as "bad"...and think that by not eating it they will lose weight, when it fact that is not true.
For example prior to getting educated I thought I had to give up ice cream to lose weight...and well I don't.
and now that I know I can eat it if I want it...eh it's not my fav but I will eat it when I get the urge.
So yes I think the reason matters....
There are a few reasons that make sense to me.
1. Trigger food
2. don't like it/don't want it
3. allergic to it.
other than that...if you are giving it up because it's bad I think that is an issue....7 -
If you don't like a food you don't have to forbid it.
If you forbid a food it implies you like it because why would you tell yourself you can't have a food if you wouldn't eat it anyway?eveandqsmom wrote: »I think forbidding something often leads to not wanting it eventually.
Or it could lead to them completely binging on it because they DO want it but tell themselves they can't have it.7 -
I am a textbook case of "I want what I can't have" so... tell me I can't have cake and I'll rebel and binge and damn I'll eat the whole cake. However I don't want cake right now, because I want abs more... lol.
Depends on the person, but being a child that was heavy and told what I couldn't eat a lot... It led to severe binging. Better not to forbid anything and have it boil down to a decision.5 -
I don't think the word used or the reason matters if it works for you.8
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I think changing mindset can be helpful to an individual, whatever that change needs to be to get them to their goal.
I think arguing the semantics only serves people who want to argue about something.6 -
Interesting question. I think the reason plays a key role. For example, I hate dark chocolate I think it tastes terrible. So not eating it anymore is a logical and sensible course to take.
However, the slippery slope starts when we stop eating something because we believe its bad or will have adverse health effects. Foods in moderation will not kill you. Typically when categorizing food starts it grows because we view food as clean and dirty...
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as good food, bad food. Placing labels on food, leads us to ban them from our intake. We say, “No, No, No, No, No…” We push for the perfect diet, once we eat this food that does not fall into this neat diet box; we throw our hands up, saying we failed so now is the time to eat everything we can. This leads to punishment. Which leads to more restrictions. This is the vicious cycle we as binge eaters face. I used to believe it myself, that there was clean food and bad food. It simply is this manifested idea. If you ask a vegan, he/she will say animal based foods are not clean. Someone who is a vegetarian will disagree, and say it is just animal products that are not clean. Then a paleo guy runs in screaming about how meat is clean, but grains aren’t. So someone has to be right? They are all wrong. Instead, adopt my grandmother’s wise old adage of “everything in moderation.” AKA IIFYM:)
When we eat these bad foods, its often called a cheat. These start off as innocent, but over time as the restricting continues the tendencies and chances of these cheat meals turning into binges to get your fix grows. These "cheats" become that one window of time to get your fill of everything you banned yourself to eat.
I would much rather eat a piece of cake a day and not binge, than eat a whole cake in one cheat.
What foods are you thinking about no longer eating and why?0 -
eveandqsmom wrote: »I think forbidding something often leads to not wanting it eventually.
I'm the opposite of this. Forbidding something is a surefire way to make me thumb my nose at the "rules" and go have that thing.3 -
I think in a free country like the US, "forbidding foods" is something that's nonexistent. Very strange premise to begin with.0
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I think a lot of it has to do with personality - some people (a few have chimed in already) get the whole "forbidden fruit" thing going on if they try to cut out certain foods. They dwell on it, obsess about it, hyper focus on it, until finally they give in, which wouldn't be so bad, but if it results in binging on said food or giving up altogether because of the irrational, but common nonetheless, mindset that if you slip up even once, you "failed" and might as well stop trying. Others find having some basic rules and structure more helpful than just saying "anything goes so long as I'm within my calories." Telling themselves that they don't eat certain foods (whether they have a hard time fitting them into calories, or they find those foods unsatisfying, or whatever) makes it easier to stay on plan. They know that these "rules" are self imposed, and so there is nothing to "rebel" against, and if push came to shove and they really wanted something, they are grown people and can make an exception (if you set the rules, you get to make the exceptions!).
Both groups really end up doing the same thing, when it comes down to it - even the people who don't forbid food will end up limiting the amount, and quite often the frequency of certain things, even though they don't call it "forbidding". And those who forbid certain things, if they are successful in the long term, will end up occasionally indulging in some of those "forbidden" items. I think it boils down to whatever mental gymnastics help you feel better about what you are doing.2 -
I personally chose to not eat certain things so I can reach my goal quicker plus I know that I will have more calories at maintenance. I also don't bring certain foods into the house like say ice cream, because i feel powerless to the draw BUT if i'm out and want 1 cone it works better for me.2
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I think changing mindset can be helpful to an individual, whatever that change needs to be to get them to their goal.
I think arguing the semantics only serves people who want to argue about something.
Great points.
It was not until I decided never to diet again after 40 years of yo yo'ing weight that I have been successful at losing weight and keeping it off (60 pounds for a year now) and was over 250 two years ago.
Oct 2014 I decided to eat in away that perhaps would permit to recover from some major health issues. All foods that prove to improve my health are what I want to eat now. Sure I still remember the banana splits from Dairy Queen but it has been nearly two years since my brain made me pull into DQ and walk up to the ordering window.
It seems what to eat is nothing more than a decision by a person. It is kind of like marriage. Where one runs around on the spouse or not is just a final and non debatable decision. Some say running around in moderation is OK. When everything in life is optional every day it can make for a messy life I have observed.
In the end if we find a spouse or way of eating that works for us that works to make our life better then we are winners in my view. A premature death from the wrong diet or spouse is a bad thing but it happens all of the time.
Self talk does make a difference in life.
I am not saying one needs a spouse to be happy or too loose weight. It is just an example of some things in life that just require a long term commitment. 1 -
For me forbidding foods makes me think about them and want them a lot. So I am one who doesn't forbid or restrict anything except calories. But there are lots of things that I don't eat often because I don't want them. I don't want them because they are too expensive and I don't want to waste my limited number of calories on foods that will leave me hungry later. But sometimes I do waste my calories and I don't feel guilty about it because I'm not wasting them on something "forbidden". Maybe it is just semantics, but that's what works for me.2
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I do think mindset makes a difference but what that means specifically can be different for different people.
In the past I've attempted to cut out certain foods but with a mindset of "Ugh, I can't have ____, but I want it. This sucks. I hate this. I can't wait until this is over." Every time I ended up find some excuse to have whatever that thing was. Right now I am cutting out many things but with a mindset of "This is what I am doing because I want to see what the benefits are. Period. No excuses. Don't bother thinking about it and debating what to do." It's made it pretty easy. Instead of constantly thinking "Can I have this? Should I? Did I work out enough? How many calories do I have left?" everything is a simple "Can I have this? Yes or no." Taking the debate out of the matter has helped SO much. It also helps to think of what I CAN have instead of what I can't. I never say "that food is forbidden! It's evil!" Instead I say "Eh, it's not on my current plan."
The same thing works for me with working out. If I debate what I want (wanting to work out because it's healthy versus wanting to go home because I'm lazy) I will almost always choose going home even though I know it's not the best decision. But if I COMMIT and tell myself "It doesn't matter what you want right now. You said you were going to work out so that's what you're going to do" it's easy to get to the gym.
I'm not saying this works for everyone or that everyone should think this way. This is simply what works for me right now. In the past I've always believed "everything in moderation" and that is my long-term goal. But right now, I'm following a pretty limited plan (for various reasons, not just weight loss, so please don't judge) and choosing not to dwell on what I'm "missing" has been key.1 -
I must not have had enough coffee for this thread. You're just arguing semantics.
Convincing yourself that you don't want to eat something in general is exactly the same as forbidding it.
Telling yourself that you don't want to eat something right now is different though. And that's a more realistic way of looking at things... I don't want this donut right now because 1) I'm not really craving it, 2) I'm saving calories for dinner, 3) I'm really not hungry, 4) I'd rather have pie. But then the food isn't forbidden, it's just not the option you choose right now. But you can make another decision tomorrow...
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For me, knowing what my goals are helps me decide that I don't want to eat something and not longingly crave something. Does this food help me reach my goals (happiness and a feeling of satisfaction from eating is a goal as well as nutritional and weightloss/gain ones)? There's nothing I suppose that I'd consider completely forbidden, except anise or dill, because that crap is nasty.
how dare you speak of dill that way!2 -
I have food intolerances and got "forbidden" food as they simply make me sick for days. Apart from those nothing is forbidden.
I eat low carb during the week as protein makes me fuller, and I generally undereat during the week so at the weekend, anything is fair game. Piece of cake? Ice cream? Wine?
What I do find though is that by not forbidding any food, and I know I can eat it at the weekend as long as I have been good during the week, keeps me in check. I often end up not eating what I craved during the week, make better choices overall. (And before anyone jumps on my lower calorie intake during the week, I eat ALL my weekly calories, I just space them out over the full 7 days)0 -
This isn't "just" semantics. Words have meaning, and we think in concepts. "Forbidden" means, for most of us, denying ourselves something we want. For most of us, this will heighten the desire for it, unless the reasoning for it is good - usually some kind of cultural/religious taboo - jews and muslims go to great lenghts to avoid pork and are seemingly happy about that - or if it makes us immediately sick, like something you are allergic to. Something that may contribute to some kind of diffuse ailment ten years from now, won't create that aversion. (We don't "forbid" ourselves something we don't want, that idea is absurd.)
Having a structure is a good idea. Finding an eating structure that really works with our own preferences and schedule is better. Learning to make good choices is an important life skill, and navigating our current food environment isn't particularly easy and intuitive.
People with good eating structures and people who forbid themselves food, are aiming for the same goal, but the former have a much better chance to succeed than the latter.
My eating habits have evolved through incremental changes, whereas my attitude towards food and eating has gone through a revolution. My whole mindset has become more non-dualistic, which seems to work better with the real world than the either/or frameset I grew up with.
ETA: Finding out what's what and understanding and dealing consciously with the consequences of your actions, but removing guilt and shame from decision making, can make a lot of difference. There are foods that I have an intense lust for, but don't necessarily provide that much pleasure. The stress involved in dealing with those - a by now well-known cycle of expectation, excitement, disappointment and self-blame - is just something I'm not interested in. This doesn't mean that I will never eat it, I may decide to accept, on occasion, when offered, but they are mainly easy accessible and I no longer make an effort to obtain those foods and I certainly don't try to stock up on them in my home anymore.3 -
I do not put forbidden and "just do not want" into the same category. They are just not the same. and no food is forbidden per se because if you just make a choice to choose something over the other does not make that forbidden.. it just makes that a choice..
Not wanting something is just no wanting something.
However a person wants to stack up words, actions and results is their own prerogative. So if word associations and the like is how you need to do it, then by all means do that.1 -
Something forbidden immediately makes us think, I WANT. I choose not to think about food in that way. Years of yoyo dieting and forbidding foods wasn't a good idea long term for me. I enjoy all foods now but I am very good at practising moderation.
If you don't WANT something, then of course, why would you eat it, ( unless it has some necessary nutritional value that you personally NEED) - e.g I don't like avocados, I know they would be good for me, but I choose not to eat them.0 -
Interesting replies. I'm generally not one to nit pick semantics, but the thread about willing to give up a food the rest of your life got me thinking. Nearly everyone said "nothing". There are a lot of foods I used to eat that I don't ever plan to eat again. At one point many of them were things I liked/loved. Some I just ate without conscious thought. They aren't forbidden, I just no longer have the desire to eat them.1
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I absolutely and completely believe that semantics do count when it comes to regulating behaviour
Many personality types rail against the forbidden and look to bend or break those rules. And it becomes reliant on willpower rather than choice.
You see the importance of semantics in child development and in effective treatments for many panic / anxiety disorders
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Interesting replies. I'm generally not one to nit pick semantics, but the thread about willing to give up a food the rest of your life got me thinking. Nearly everyone said "nothing". There are a lot of foods I used to eat that I don't ever plan to eat again. At one point many of them were things I liked/loved. Some I just ate without conscious thought. They aren't forbidden, I just no longer have the desire to eat them.
I think once we get to a point of health and fitness and maintenance we all have foods like that.
for example jujubs...used to eat them a lot...now eh...do I plan on eating them again...no but if I get an urge yah.
Ice cream is another one for me...it's not high on my list of things I will use my calories for but if the urge strikes yes.0 -
I have no problem with "forbidding" (for right now) foods that I will not moderate and foods that that make me crazy not eating them. I think it's self torture to have those foods around when there's a good chance I will want to overeat them. The foods are not satisfying to me in the amount that will fit in my goals.
Not forbidding those foods keep me from losing weight. Knowing they are in the list of foods I am not eating right now makes me feel comfortable.
The only thing that I won't ever eat (drink) again is regular soda except for 1 can on Christmas Day. Otherwise the forbidden foods will be eaten again, just not right now. In the future I expect that it will be the same. Some foods will be forbidden sometimes or I will gain weight.
Nothing wrong with this. If there is a food(s) that hinder your progress, why not cut them out? For me, the foods on the forbidden list do not provide anything towards my nutrition goals. They are empty calories that leave me hungry so I end up eating even more over goal.1 -
I have no problem with "forbidding" (for right now) foods that I will not moderate and foods that that make me crazy not eating them. I think it's self torture to have those foods around when there's a good chance I will want to overeat them. The foods are not satisfying to me in the amount that will fit in my goals.
Not forbidding those foods keep me from losing weight. Knowing they are in the list of foods I am not eating right now makes me feel comfortable.
The only thing that I won't ever eat (drink) again is regular soda except for 1 can on Christmas Day. Otherwise the forbidden foods will be eaten again, just not right now. In the future I expect that it will be the same. Some foods will be forbidden sometimes or I will gain weight.
Nothing wrong with this. If there is a food(s) that hinder your progress, why not cut them out? For me, the foods on the forbidden list do not provide anything towards my nutrition goals. They are empty calories that leave me hungry so I end up eating even more over goal.
one question tho...when you reintroduce those foods that prevent weight loss...won't they cause weight gain later?1
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