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Paying the healthcare costs of obesity
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Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
Education etc as you say should be done, but how to pay for it? As you know many governmental unit are in poor financial condition.
I would say a $.05 per ounce on drinks with added sugars would help the poor as they would not be as likely to pay $4 for a 64 oz drink as $.79. Money used to fund education, etc.0 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.0 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.
No kidding! My son has a serious mental illness. Their life expectancy is shorter chiefly from the higher suicide rate. To see him soldier on, to find meaning in spite of significant challenges, is heroic. Often he is better support to me on my off days than my healthy child.
What I don't get is why some of our major antidepressants come with a suicide warning.
I'd like to see faster intervention when it is clear a loved one is in mental crisis.
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How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.
No kidding! My son has a serious mental illness. Their life expectancy is shorter chiefly from the higher suicide rate. To see him soldier on, to find meaning in spite of significant challenges, is heroic. Often he is better support to me on my off days than my healthy child.
What I don't get is why some of our major antidepressants come with a suicide warning.
I'd like to see faster intervention when it is clear a loved one is in mental crisis.
His fear of the costs of medical care were the main roadblock to him getting treatment (even though I repeatedly told him I'd pay for the cost of therapy)0 -
lenoresdream wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
If you can't pay they send you to collections or offer a "payment plan" that is basically high payments in a short amount of months.
Long gone are the days of hospitals eating costs.
If anyone had a hospital do that consider yourself lucky bc hospital payment plans are my experience. (2 times I didn't have insurance)
In the strict sense, perhaps. However, what often happens is that the hospital sends non-payment bills to collections and the individual responsible never actually makes any payments even if they have the money to do so. They'd rather drag out the legal process for years and have bad credit, or they'd rather declare bankruptcy than have a 20+ year payment plan hanging over their heads. Either way, the hospital never sees the money.
I work for a major non-profit health care system. We have a significant portion of our budget dedicated solely to compensating for this exact scenario. If we didn't, we'd have been out of business long ago.0 -
lenoresdream wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
If you can't pay they send you to collections or offer a "payment plan" that is basically high payments in a short amount of months.
Long gone are the days of hospitals eating costs.
If anyone had a hospital do that consider yourself lucky bc hospital payment plans are my experience. (2 times I didn't have insurance)
In the strict sense, perhaps. However, what often happens is that the hospital sends non-payment bills to collections and the individual responsible never actually makes any payments even if they have the money to do so. They'd rather drag out the legal process for years and have bad credit, or they'd rather declare bankruptcy than have a 20+ year payment plan hanging over their heads. Either way, the hospital never sees the money.
I work for a major non-profit health care system. We have a significant portion of our budget dedicated solely to compensating for this exact scenario. If we didn't, we'd have been out of business long ago.
It's almost like giving away things for free isn't a sustainable business model, or something. This exact scenario is why I feel the way I do. The fact that hospitals are compelled to provide a service, regardless of customer ability to pay, is now, and always will be ridiculous.0 -
Health insurance companies should no longer cover illnesses that are preventable. If you are overweight and it isn't caused by an underlying illness (such as thyroid or glandular deficiency), all cholesterol, diabetic and high blood pressure treatment should be excluded from coverage. I propose the same treat for coverage of cancer for documented smokers.0
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Someone else made this point, but it seems silly to subsidize junk food (through various big ag subs) and then tax it, except I guess it's different levels of government (the Philadelphia soda tax is simply a money-making venture justified by some health arguments to my understanding). I'd much rather stop with the subsidies (despite living in a state that produces lots of corn and soybeans).
That would probably cause meat prices to rise, however. I don't think people really appreciate how cheap food is on average in the US.2 -
Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.3 -
Its already happening to the people that have to pay a portion of their health care. My daughter who is very fit from running & boot camp had a physical to determine how much she will need to pay for coverage. The examiners were shocked at her fitness level, she ended up getting a credit.1
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CipherZero wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »It's funny how many "I'm not paying for insurance because I don't need it" folks wind up with a chronic disease or serious injury and immediately run to the ER and collect their welfare. And then they whine about having to declare bankruptcy, which the rest of us also pay for.
A statistic I read a while ago: 65% of bankruptcies have a root cause of a health crises. 85% of those bankruptcies had health insurance.
Something is fundamentally broken.
We are self-insured. Have been for years. Our standard of living would be different if for not paying the high premiums. I moaned about it for years until I got cancer. Turns out those high premiums are a drop in the bucket compared to paying for cancer treatment. Very thankful for the excellent medical I received and continue to receive.
Medical costs are so high because of the drugs. $25k for 1 cycle of 3 chemo drugs. I had 6 cycles. Plus another drug that was thousands like $125k before I was done.5 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
The cardiovascular, diabetes and respiratory threats to a large extent can be reduced by long term exercise, not smoking, weight control, and an appropriate diet.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
That's always been my biggest gripe with "being poor makes you fat". No, eating too much damned food makes you fat. It's just that there's pretty good correlation between the poor, and those who don't think so well/make terrible decisions. The worst part is, it's a self-perpetuating downward spiral, as poor nutrition has been shown to cause problems with stress levels, judgment and critical thought. Ultimately, it's their own fault, as no one's forcing Ho-hoes and Ding-dongs into their mouths, but it is sad, in a pathetic kind of way.1 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
The cardiovascular, diabetes and respiratory threats to a large extent can be reduced by long term exercise, not smoking, weight control, and an appropriate diet.
Nobody gets out alive, though. What do you think the end looks like?
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I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.
Admittedly this is a weak point of the idea, but still better than basing the test on BMI. DEXA would be too expensive and time consuming for everyone. Skilled multipoint caliper reading can get within about 5%, just set the body fat threshold high to account for error. Let people pay for their own DEXA as a rebuttal if they want.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.
Admittedly this is a weak point of the idea, but still better than basing the test on BMI. DEXA would be too expensive and time consuming for everyone. Skilled multipoint caliper reading can get within about 5%, just set the body fat threshold high to account for error. Let people pay for their own DEXA as a rebuttal if they want.
Or set the credit high enough to easily offset the cost of the scan, assuming they pass. They fail, they eat it.0 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I'd rather the government just get out of the healthcare business altogether. If lower body fat people typically live longer, you are creating an incentive to increase the cost of the system to taxpayers.
Honestly, I think happiness should be encouraged more in general. I just don't feel that government is the right entity to push it. Living longer doesn't necessarily mean being happier for a lot of people.3 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I'd rather the government just get out of the healthcare business altogether. If lower body fat people typically live longer, you are creating an incentive to increase the cost of the system to taxpayers.
Honestly, I think happiness should be encouraged more in general. I just don't feel that government is the right entity to push it. Living longer doesn't necessarily mean being happier for a lot of people.
While I do agree with this, since income tax doesn't appear to be going the way of the dodo anytime soon, I'm all for any idea that will enable people to keep more of their money. One of two things will eventually have to happen. Spending will get curbed and people will deal with the pain, or the whole thing will come apart eventually. I can deal with it either way.
ETA: Oh, and change tax credit to deduction. They're not the same thing, and we don't need to be handing more "free" money out to people, no matter what physical shape they are in.0
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