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Paying the healthcare costs of obesity
Replies
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Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
Education etc as you say should be done, but how to pay for it? As you know many governmental unit are in poor financial condition.
I would say a $.05 per ounce on drinks with added sugars would help the poor as they would not be as likely to pay $4 for a 64 oz drink as $.79. Money used to fund education, etc.0 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.0 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.
No kidding! My son has a serious mental illness. Their life expectancy is shorter chiefly from the higher suicide rate. To see him soldier on, to find meaning in spite of significant challenges, is heroic. Often he is better support to me on my off days than my healthy child.
What I don't get is why some of our major antidepressants come with a suicide warning.
I'd like to see faster intervention when it is clear a loved one is in mental crisis.
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How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
My SO was in the dark peach top portion of your graph. "Intentional injuries." I wish society/health care was better at preventing this kind of thing.
No kidding! My son has a serious mental illness. Their life expectancy is shorter chiefly from the higher suicide rate. To see him soldier on, to find meaning in spite of significant challenges, is heroic. Often he is better support to me on my off days than my healthy child.
What I don't get is why some of our major antidepressants come with a suicide warning.
I'd like to see faster intervention when it is clear a loved one is in mental crisis.
His fear of the costs of medical care were the main roadblock to him getting treatment (even though I repeatedly told him I'd pay for the cost of therapy)0 -
lenoresdream wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
If you can't pay they send you to collections or offer a "payment plan" that is basically high payments in a short amount of months.
Long gone are the days of hospitals eating costs.
If anyone had a hospital do that consider yourself lucky bc hospital payment plans are my experience. (2 times I didn't have insurance)
In the strict sense, perhaps. However, what often happens is that the hospital sends non-payment bills to collections and the individual responsible never actually makes any payments even if they have the money to do so. They'd rather drag out the legal process for years and have bad credit, or they'd rather declare bankruptcy than have a 20+ year payment plan hanging over their heads. Either way, the hospital never sees the money.
I work for a major non-profit health care system. We have a significant portion of our budget dedicated solely to compensating for this exact scenario. If we didn't, we'd have been out of business long ago.0 -
lenoresdream wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
If you can't pay they send you to collections or offer a "payment plan" that is basically high payments in a short amount of months.
Long gone are the days of hospitals eating costs.
If anyone had a hospital do that consider yourself lucky bc hospital payment plans are my experience. (2 times I didn't have insurance)
In the strict sense, perhaps. However, what often happens is that the hospital sends non-payment bills to collections and the individual responsible never actually makes any payments even if they have the money to do so. They'd rather drag out the legal process for years and have bad credit, or they'd rather declare bankruptcy than have a 20+ year payment plan hanging over their heads. Either way, the hospital never sees the money.
I work for a major non-profit health care system. We have a significant portion of our budget dedicated solely to compensating for this exact scenario. If we didn't, we'd have been out of business long ago.
It's almost like giving away things for free isn't a sustainable business model, or something. This exact scenario is why I feel the way I do. The fact that hospitals are compelled to provide a service, regardless of customer ability to pay, is now, and always will be ridiculous.0 -
Health insurance companies should no longer cover illnesses that are preventable. If you are overweight and it isn't caused by an underlying illness (such as thyroid or glandular deficiency), all cholesterol, diabetic and high blood pressure treatment should be excluded from coverage. I propose the same treat for coverage of cancer for documented smokers.0
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Someone else made this point, but it seems silly to subsidize junk food (through various big ag subs) and then tax it, except I guess it's different levels of government (the Philadelphia soda tax is simply a money-making venture justified by some health arguments to my understanding). I'd much rather stop with the subsidies (despite living in a state that produces lots of corn and soybeans).
That would probably cause meat prices to rise, however. I don't think people really appreciate how cheap food is on average in the US.2 -
Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.3 -
Its already happening to the people that have to pay a portion of their health care. My daughter who is very fit from running & boot camp had a physical to determine how much she will need to pay for coverage. The examiners were shocked at her fitness level, she ended up getting a credit.1
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CipherZero wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »It's funny how many "I'm not paying for insurance because I don't need it" folks wind up with a chronic disease or serious injury and immediately run to the ER and collect their welfare. And then they whine about having to declare bankruptcy, which the rest of us also pay for.
A statistic I read a while ago: 65% of bankruptcies have a root cause of a health crises. 85% of those bankruptcies had health insurance.
Something is fundamentally broken.
We are self-insured. Have been for years. Our standard of living would be different if for not paying the high premiums. I moaned about it for years until I got cancer. Turns out those high premiums are a drop in the bucket compared to paying for cancer treatment. Very thankful for the excellent medical I received and continue to receive.
Medical costs are so high because of the drugs. $25k for 1 cycle of 3 chemo drugs. I had 6 cycles. Plus another drug that was thousands like $125k before I was done.5 -
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
The cardiovascular, diabetes and respiratory threats to a large extent can be reduced by long term exercise, not smoking, weight control, and an appropriate diet.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
That's always been my biggest gripe with "being poor makes you fat". No, eating too much damned food makes you fat. It's just that there's pretty good correlation between the poor, and those who don't think so well/make terrible decisions. The worst part is, it's a self-perpetuating downward spiral, as poor nutrition has been shown to cause problems with stress levels, judgment and critical thought. Ultimately, it's their own fault, as no one's forcing Ho-hoes and Ding-dongs into their mouths, but it is sad, in a pathetic kind of way.1 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »
How many of these leading causes of death can be laid on the victim's lap? I think people's fears shift as they age. One starts to worry more about cancer and heart disease as one gets older. Out come the bran flakes and the daily constitutional.
Hubby often says he won't die in a car accident because he is a safe driver. I remind him he has no control over the OTHER guy.
The cardiovascular, diabetes and respiratory threats to a large extent can be reduced by long term exercise, not smoking, weight control, and an appropriate diet.
Nobody gets out alive, though. What do you think the end looks like?
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I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.
Admittedly this is a weak point of the idea, but still better than basing the test on BMI. DEXA would be too expensive and time consuming for everyone. Skilled multipoint caliper reading can get within about 5%, just set the body fat threshold high to account for error. Let people pay for their own DEXA as a rebuttal if they want.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I would be fine with that, assuming people had to pay for their own DEXA scans. Calipers and bathroom scales don't count. Heh.
Admittedly this is a weak point of the idea, but still better than basing the test on BMI. DEXA would be too expensive and time consuming for everyone. Skilled multipoint caliper reading can get within about 5%, just set the body fat threshold high to account for error. Let people pay for their own DEXA as a rebuttal if they want.
Or set the credit high enough to easily offset the cost of the scan, assuming they pass. They fail, they eat it.0 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I'd rather the government just get out of the healthcare business altogether. If lower body fat people typically live longer, you are creating an incentive to increase the cost of the system to taxpayers.
Honestly, I think happiness should be encouraged more in general. I just don't feel that government is the right entity to push it. Living longer doesn't necessarily mean being happier for a lot of people.3 -
I would support federal or state tax credits for individuals who can maintain their body fat under a given threshold, or for those who can demonstrate they are making progress towards that goal. As a bonus, preventive healthcare may be increased as individuals would need to schedule a yearly well-visit physical with their PCP to get the official caliper measurements.
I'd rather the government just get out of the healthcare business altogether. If lower body fat people typically live longer, you are creating an incentive to increase the cost of the system to taxpayers.
Honestly, I think happiness should be encouraged more in general. I just don't feel that government is the right entity to push it. Living longer doesn't necessarily mean being happier for a lot of people.
While I do agree with this, since income tax doesn't appear to be going the way of the dodo anytime soon, I'm all for any idea that will enable people to keep more of their money. One of two things will eventually have to happen. Spending will get curbed and people will deal with the pain, or the whole thing will come apart eventually. I can deal with it either way.
ETA: Oh, and change tax credit to deduction. They're not the same thing, and we don't need to be handing more "free" money out to people, no matter what physical shape they are in.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.
And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.
So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?
They won't let you lay there and die.
They won't have any choice. That's as far as I will expand upon the matter.
@Gallowmere1984 - I've been following the thread and am still wondering how, when you are in a serious accident or have a medical emergency that renders you unconscious, no one will be responsible for treating you or having to pay? And what if you are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? You're a pretty young person... would you really not seek treatment past what you could pay for out of your own pocket? BTW, I'm all for personal responsibility and we have always paid our own bills, but it's the catastrophic health event that none of us can afford.2 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
People in that demographic also often have limited access to kitchens/cooking supplies, as well as food storage and refrigeration. Most food pantries collect non-perishable items that only require a microwave/hotplate or one pot to cook for that reason. Taxing "junk" foods which provide calories with little to no preparation would hit that demographic more than others.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.
And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.
So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?
They won't let you lay there and die.
They won't have any choice. That's as far as I will expand upon the matter.
@Gallowmere1984 - I've been following the thread and am still wondering how, when you are in a serious accident or have a medical emergency that renders you unconscious, no one will be responsible for treating you or having to pay? And what if you are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? You're a pretty young person... would you really not seek treatment past what you could pay for out of your own pocket? BTW, I'm all for personal responsibility and we have always paid our own bills, but it's the catastrophic health event that none of us can afford.
No, I would not. I've actually made several attempts to have a DNR order put in place, but due to my age, no doctor is willing to. Yet another reason that I really dislike the medical community. This life and body belong to me. They need to step away with their opinions and "saving me from myself". Unlike most, I actually apply my feelings on the whole of society to myself as well. I'm no better, nor more deserving of any treatment that I would deny to another person for fiscal reasons. If I can't afford it, it's not mine to have.
And again, I will not expand upon my earlier statement any further.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.
And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.
So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?
They won't let you lay there and die.
They won't have any choice. That's as far as I will expand upon the matter.
@Gallowmere1984 - I've been following the thread and am still wondering how, when you are in a serious accident or have a medical emergency that renders you unconscious, no one will be responsible for treating you or having to pay? And what if you are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? You're a pretty young person... would you really not seek treatment past what you could pay for out of your own pocket? BTW, I'm all for personal responsibility and we have always paid our own bills, but it's the catastrophic health event that none of us can afford.
No, I would not. I've actually made several attempts to have a DNR order put in place, but due to my age, no doctor is willing to. Yet another reason that I really dislike the medical community. This life and body belong to me. They need to step away with their opinions and "saving me from myself". Unlike most, I actually apply my feelings on the whole of society to myself as well. I'm no better, nor more deserving of any treatment that I would deny to another person for fiscal reasons. If I can't afford it, it's not mine to have.
And again, I will not expand upon my earlier statement any further.
Respect your feelings, just hoping you enjoy many years of good health, and remain single & childless!
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.
And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.
U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.
This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you
You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.
And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.
So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?
They won't let you lay there and die.
They won't have any choice. That's as far as I will expand upon the matter.
@Gallowmere1984 - I've been following the thread and am still wondering how, when you are in a serious accident or have a medical emergency that renders you unconscious, no one will be responsible for treating you or having to pay? And what if you are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? You're a pretty young person... would you really not seek treatment past what you could pay for out of your own pocket? BTW, I'm all for personal responsibility and we have always paid our own bills, but it's the catastrophic health event that none of us can afford.
No, I would not. I've actually made several attempts to have a DNR order put in place, but due to my age, no doctor is willing to. Yet another reason that I really dislike the medical community. This life and body belong to me. They need to step away with their opinions and "saving me from myself". Unlike most, I actually apply my feelings on the whole of society to myself as well. I'm no better, nor more deserving of any treatment that I would deny to another person for fiscal reasons. If I can't afford it, it's not mine to have.
And again, I will not expand upon my earlier statement any further.
Respect your feelings, just hoping you enjoy many years of good health, and remain single & childless!
I'm all for the single and childless. Though really, they'd only stand to gain from my stance, assuming that they themselves were in good condition. When I did kick the bucket, there would be no unnecessary expenses to worry over, and my "burial" wishes consist of "cheapest possible". Therefore, that would leave my entire involuntary life insurance policy (company provides it for free), plus whatever I have banked as their windfall. xD0 -
CipherZero wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »It's funny how many "I'm not paying for insurance because I don't need it" folks wind up with a chronic disease or serious injury and immediately run to the ER and collect their welfare. And then they whine about having to declare bankruptcy, which the rest of us also pay for.
A statistic I read a while ago: 65% of bankruptcies have a root cause of a health crises. 85% of those bankruptcies had health insurance.
Something is fundamentally broken.
We are self-insured. Have been for years. Our standard of living would be different if for not paying the high premiums. I moaned about it for years until I got cancer. Turns out those high premiums are a drop in the bucket compared to paying for cancer treatment. Very thankful for the excellent medical I received and continue to receive.
Medical costs are so high because of the drugs. $25k for 1 cycle of 3 chemo drugs. I had 6 cycles. Plus another drug that was thousands like $125k before I was done.
Just agreeing with this. I ended up with a high risk twin pregnancy (My identical twins shared a placenta and the blood supply for one twin went to the other twin). This pregnancy was so high risk, I had to drive 3 hours one way, out of state twice a week for months, for care. The end cost, about $250,000. We are extremely frugal, we live within our means, we save but that would have ruined us. Thankfully because we also believe that stuff does happen and made sure we had health insurance before getting pregnant, we only ended up paying $7,000 out of pocket by the time it was all said and done. For the record, my boys are healthy ten year olds now.
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
People in that demographic also often have limited access to kitchens/cooking supplies, as well as food storage and refrigeration. Most food pantries collect non-perishable items that only require a microwave/hotplate or one pot to cook for that reason. Taxing "junk" foods which provide calories with little to no preparation would hit that demographic more than others.
I also think there's a correlation between having an unsatisfying job and maybe two to make ends meet and not much else in your life that's all that pleasurable and using junk food as a cheap pleasure. It's understandable, even if not the best decision. And similarly, while the food desert areas in my city have public transportation so you can go elsewhere, there's often a long travel time or inconvenience involved which I can understand someone tired and stressed not wanting to add to their day (especially if childcare or bringing the children along is an issue), among some other things. Not saying it's impossible, but it's harder. Also depending on where you live a functional garden is more or less possible. (There are actually some good programs here for urban gardening in some of the worst neighborhoods, because land is cheap.) Add to everything fear of crime and various social/cultural traditions about food, even if one was raised functionally enough and with the equipment to learn to cook.2 -
One day last fall I was doing hill repeats on my bike, in my neighborhood. You know, improving cardiovascular fitness and burning calories, being healthy.
A car ran a red light and hit me, it was going 35 to 40 mph at the time. $20,000 bill from the hospital.
I'm lucky the driver stopped. And had insurance. A lot of people aren't so lucky.1 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
People in that demographic also often have limited access to kitchens/cooking supplies, as well as food storage and refrigeration. Most food pantries collect non-perishable items that only require a microwave/hotplate or one pot to cook for that reason. Taxing "junk" foods which provide calories with little to no preparation would hit that demographic more than others.jmbmilholland wrote: »Interesting topic! Especially since I am a tax accountant! However, I think the problem is more deeply rooted. Taxing junk food is likely to be a harder tax hit on the poor. Unfortunately, junk food is way more bang for your buck from a calorie perspective than what the produce department can provide. Plus, we live in such a fast paced society, that's the american, faster quicker better.....It kills me. I wish we could live a little slower paced life, grow some of our own food, take time to cook from scratch, etc....it's just not that simple anymore.... So, no I don't agree with taxing the junk food. Promoting and educating consumers about what they should be eating to stay healthy and providing families with more flexibility at work to live healthy lives, that topic should be up for discussion.
I keep reading things like this, and I ain't buying it. First, people who are so poor that they have to buy junk food, are also probably the demographic that might need to lose weight, and it is not difficult to put together a great 1500 calorie meal plan on $194/month in SNAP benefits for a single person (after consulting with a coworker, this is what her sister qualified for). You can saute a lb of green beans ($1, 144 calories) in a tablespoon of bacon grease (free if you save your drippings, 120 calories) and eat with with a 4-oz chicken breats (42 cents, 140 calories) and maybe some sauteed potatoes (4 oz, 13 cents, 89 calories) for an extremely cheap, healthy, nutritious, 500-calorie lunch. You could go extra-crazy and even throw in some (free!!) dandelion greans if you want even more insane nutrition.
Also, my region has a lot of Burmese and Somalian refugees--talk about poor; yet they all have gardens, and grow the crap out of a ton of produce and grains, as well as foraging the crap out of the local wild mulberry population. It's all a matter of will power and work ethic when it comes to growing and finding free food, unless you are truly in a destitute, living out of your car situation. Most people just don't want to do it.
People in that demographic also often have limited access to kitchens/cooking supplies, as well as food storage and refrigeration. Most food pantries collect non-perishable items that only require a microwave/hotplate or one pot to cook for that reason. Taxing "junk" foods which provide calories with little to no preparation would hit that demographic more than others.
Well, this is the problem right here. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you can create that whole meal with a single pan and a spoon. You just keep the grease in a tin can under the sink. Keep the potatoes and beans on the counter. If you lack basic refrigeration that is a complicating factor for meats but as noted above this doesn't apply to the slim tranche of SNAP users who are living out of a car, a box, a tent, or just about.
I am also staunchly against taxing junk foods. I just feel like people could empower themselves by doing what their grandparents did.0 -
I've always thought that an HSA would be the right solution for the healthcare issue (to include obesity). Individuals would be required to save a portion of their pay (before taxes) for broadly defined healthcare expenses. They could use these funds at their discretion for things like normal health costs, lasik, weight loss surgery, Insurance premiums, almost anything health related. These funds could also be willed or donated.
As people begin working while young, they will likely build up a surplus. This could be coupled high deductible insurance at affordable rates. It could also cause deflation in the lower healthcare market as people will be more judicious with their funds.
Current HSA's aren't that great. If you don't use it, you lose it at the end of the year. An HSA that rolled over every year that you didn't use it up would be great! You could accumulate quite a savings in your healthy years. It would be like self-insuring. I already have a savings account set aside for medical emergencies, but since it's not an HSA, it doesn't save me anything on taxes. I'm not sure about requiring a set amount or capping the amount you can put in or that can roll over. I'd like to be able to choose what I put in.0
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