Paying the healthcare costs of obesity

Packerjohn

Sonce a tax on junk food isn't popular, what are suggestions how the US can pay the increased health care costs of obesity and related conditions?

For purposes of.this qiestion, raising taxes on"the rich" or corporations isn't an acceptable answer.

ElJefeChief

What, are we all technocrats now?

NorthCascades

Packerjohn wrote: »

For purposes of.this qiestion, raising taxes on"the rich" or corporations isn't an acceptable answer.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't; that's ultimately up to the voters to decide. And in the same spirit as your disclaimer, I'll say that whether an answer is acceptable or not isn't what matters, it's whether an answer is viable. It's an aggregate problem that can't be solved by a handful of individuals.

Azdak

The same as we pay for the health costs of any other health or medical condition. Should we tax running shoes to pay for all the therapy and orthopedic surgeries that runners incur?

You could even make the case that healthy people who live longer lives should be taxed because they use up more things like Social Security.

The fact is that there are multiple causes for obesity, diabetes, etc. Some are within people's control, some not as much. If you look at anyone's lifestyle, you will find behaviors that, over the long run, lead to health problems and medical costs. It is counterproductive and even a tad arrogant to blame select groups that you find fault with and subject them to a type of collective punishment.

We all live together in society. We all do good things and not so good things, do things that contribute to society and do things that cost society. In the end it all evens out. Trying to shame people into "paying" for their "sins" is ultimately pointless, a distasteful vestige of our "Puritan" roots.

The more constructive approach is to provide knowledge, resources, healthcare, etc., so that people have the tools to lead healthier lifestyles and that will decrease the costs.

zyxst

Whatever is being taxed now will probably get a portion cut out to pay for universal healthcare.

afatpersonwholikesfood

No sin taxes, thank you.

And if for some reason I am forced to pay per pound, then insurance companies covering weight loss programs should be written into the ACA.

I'm not even talking about the big things like bariatric surgery; I can't even see a dietician or a counselor for eating issues without paying 100% out of pocket. My monthly weight check at my doctor's office, which I keep up because it's good for accountability and seeing my true month-to-month weight change, consists of 5 minutes with a scale and a nurse. My ACA-compliant insurance company refuses to cover any portion of it.

In general, headlines about X lifestyle costing the country $$$$$ are smokescreens. The US is in heaps of debt, and it's not the fat smoker on the corner that's responsible for that. Look higher up.

jgnatca

Why not throw in alcohol drinkers and cigarette smokers in to the mix while you are at it? Or tax seniors who manage to live well beyond their appointed age?

Something I learned in my line of business is to get to root cause. Blame chasing never solves the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

Gallowmere1984

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

afatpersonwholikesfood

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

You'd have to apply that thinking more broadly. Should a hospital be free and clear to turn away the following? Should they all be forced to pay even with insurance?:

* HIV (not from a blood transfusion/birth)
* Hep C (same deal as above)
* Non-native diseases as a result of choosing to travel
* Injuries that wouldn't have occurred otherwise - whether through occupation, hobby, or not wearing a helmet/seatbelt. Say, cutting off a finger while doing some amateur woodworking.
* Pregnancy (surely they did that to themselves - perhaps with a bit of help)
* Suicide attempts
* Lung cancer in someone who smokes. Most cancers that occur in someone who smokes - plenty are linked, but none can be said to have been directly caused solely by smoking.
* A diabetic who hasn't been taking insulin as directed
* A person with mental illness who hasn't seen a psychiatrist or been on meds for several months and is now in crisis
* Cirrhosis in an alcoholic
* Osteoporosis related fractures in an old lady who has avoided calcium-rich foods her whole life
* Coal miner's lung in a coal miner
* Any "lifestyle" disease that presents in a normal-BMI person who consumes the standard American diet and doesn't meet the minimum recommendations for exercise
* Any person without insurance who will die without emergency surgical intervention. Appendicitis, for example

I'm not saying this as a person who thinks that the ACA is a perfect solution or as someone with a PhD in the ins-and-outs of healthcare. I benefit from the ACA and receive a tax subsidy, but I can see the bigger picture. I think the problem lies in more than one area. Why is medical school so expensive? Why are procedures in the US so pricy? Why does a 10-minute scan of the abdomen cost $3,000? Why are certain prescriptions hundreds or thousands of dollars? Why can one hospital stay bankrupt someone without insurance? If you notice, insurance companies pay a fraction of the cash price. I had a CT of my abdomen. The facility received a few hundred from my insurance and $200 from me. What about the other $2,000 in that cost? Where did it go?

Gallowmere1984

So far as I am concerned, the only exceptions to what I said, are infectious diseases, as those can affect others if not handled.

And if you are alluding to insurance being the problem, then yeah, I'd agree. The ACA did nothing but distort the market even further.

Packerjohn

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.

This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you

Packerjohn

jgnatca wrote: »

Why not throw in alcohol drinkers and cigarette smokers in to the mix while you are at it? Or tax seniors who manage to live well beyond their appointed age?

Something I learned in my line of business is to get to root cause. Blame chasing never solves the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

They are actually paying additional taxes for their "vices"

Gallowmere1984

Packerjohn wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.

This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you

You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.

And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.

Packerjohn

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Packerjohn wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.

This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you

You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.

And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.

So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?

They won't let you lay there and die.

Gallowmere1984

Packerjohn wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Packerjohn wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

Let them pay for it themselves. They did it to themselves. Allow hospitals the right to turn away people who cannot afford to pay for their services.

And this is coming from someone who refuses to have health insurance, so yeah, I'd probably get turned away too. Doesn't change the fact that I don't deserve to receive anyone else's labor value for free.

U nfortunately if you pass put on a street and someone calls 911 the hospital will still treat you and if you can't pay it.the hospital eats the cost.

This isn't the old west where you can just go.out back and die in peace. Sack up and get insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for you

You aren't paying for anything. I haven't been to a doctor or hospital (other than for my CDL physicals, which my company pays for) in more than 20 years. I'm not paying in on a "maybe". Not the gambling type. I've been injured several times in that duration, but the fact is, I utterly loathe the medical provider community, and would quite literally rather die than go to a hospital.

And the fact that you are paying for others is your own fault. The day everyone who pays says no at once, it ends.

So you're been fine, you drop in thr street tomorrow, who's paying a 3-400k medical bill?

They won't let you lay there and die.

They won't have any choice. That's as far as I will expand upon the matter.

moe0303

I've always thought that an HSA would be the right solution for the healthcare issue (to include obesity). Individuals would be required to save a portion of their pay (before taxes) for broadly defined healthcare expenses. They could use these funds at their discretion for things like normal health costs, lasik, weight loss surgery, Insurance premiums, almost anything health related. These funds could also be willed or donated.

As people begin working while young, they will likely build up a surplus. This could be coupled high deductible insurance at affordable rates. It could also cause deflation in the lower healthcare market as people will be more judicious with their funds.

Gallowmere1984

moe0303 wrote: »

I've always thought that an HSA would be the right solution for the healthcare issue (to include obesity). Individuals would be required to save a portion of their pay (before taxes) for broadly defined healthcare expenses. They could use these funds at their discretion for things like normal health costs, lasik, weight loss surgery, Insurance premiums, almost anything health related. These funds could also be willed or donated.

As people begin working while young, they will likely build up a surplus. This could be coupled high deductible insurance at affordable rates. It could also cause deflation in the lower healthcare market as people will be more judicious with their funds.

I would be fine with that, assuming that there is an opt-out, and that in case of such opt-outs, hospitals are allowed under Federal law to turn said opt-outs away.

moe0303

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

moe0303 wrote: »

I've always thought that an HSA would be the right solution for the healthcare issue (to include obesity). Individuals would be required to save a portion of their pay (before taxes) for broadly defined healthcare expenses. They could use these funds at their discretion for things like normal health costs, lasik, weight loss surgery, Insurance premiums, almost anything health related. These funds could also be willed or donated.

As people begin working while young, they will likely build up a surplus. This could be coupled high deductible insurance at affordable rates. It could also cause deflation in the lower healthcare market as people will be more judicious with their funds.

I would be fine with that, assuming that there is an opt-out, and that in case of such opt-outs, hospitals are allowed under Federal law to turn said opt-outs away.

I'd be fine with that.

corsayre8

Are you also going to tax smokers? Alcoholics? Motorcycle riders? Race car driver? Equestrians?

People engage in all kinds of activities that increase risk of injury or illness. Choosing one group to tax is called discrimination.

Have been obese for a large portion of my adult life, and I haven't had a single illness or medical expense related to my weight. However, I have had many bills related to my physical activities (all sustained when I was not obese). Obesity is a potential indicator or contributing factor to other health issues, in very few cases does it have medical complications alone.

Gallowmere1984

moe0303 wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

moe0303 wrote: »

I've always thought that an HSA would be the right solution for the healthcare issue (to include obesity). Individuals would be required to save a portion of their pay (before taxes) for broadly defined healthcare expenses. They could use these funds at their discretion for things like normal health costs, lasik, weight loss surgery, Insurance premiums, almost anything health related. These funds could also be willed or donated.

As people begin working while young, they will likely build up a surplus. This could be coupled high deductible insurance at affordable rates. It could also cause deflation in the lower healthcare market as people will be more judicious with their funds.

I would be fine with that, assuming that there is an opt-out, and that in case of such opt-outs, hospitals are allowed under Federal law to turn said opt-outs away.

I'd be fine with that.

...dear god, are you a unicorn? Someone who is capable of thinking of ways to help the whole without infringing upon the individual? I almost feel like I should believe that your response was sarcastic.

If more people could grasp that people don't need saving from themselves, I'm pretty sure we could all agree on a lot more.

seska422

Civilized countries have socialized healthcare, just like they have socialized education and other things-that-everyone-needs as part of their overall tax base. Just like we educate the academic outliers who are extremely expensive to educate, there are medical outliers who will be expensive to treat. It's the old 80-20 rule.

Injuries from exercise are hugely expensive and getting more so, just like obesity costs. Healthy people who exercise may end up costing more over a lifetime than obese people who die early. Plus, obese people generally don't need to be rescued by helicopter ambulances when they get hurt in the wilderness.

The US just needs to bite the bullet and move into the 21st century. Cut out the insurance middleman and all of the medical lobbying to lawmakers and direct advertising to patients. We already have a framework with Medicare that can be expanded to everyone and then tweaked.