Calories/Clean Eating/Undereating

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  • bshrom
    bshrom Posts: 71 Member
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    Steel cut oats and baby carrots are clean foods. ??
  • bshrom
    bshrom Posts: 71 Member
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    I think a better way to put it is not unprocessed but minimally processed foods. Which if you ask me is common sense. Most people in general know what a healthy diet consists of. I mean if you asked someone which is healthier vegetables and grains or ice cream and soda I doubt that anyone would choose the ice cream and soda. General rule of thumb if you read the label and have to Google the ingredients to find out what something is then you shouldn't be eating it.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    bshrom wrote: »
    Steel cut oats and baby carrots are clean foods. ??

    They are processed. So are bagged spinach, frozen veg, canned beans (even the without salt/sodium added type), dried pasta, canned tomatoes (yet give me one good reason why tasteless out of season tomatoes are preferable in January), smoked salmon, sauerkraut unless you make it at home (and even then you've processed it), any cheese, Greek yogurt, tofu, seitan, and tempeh, soymilk and store-bought almond or cashew milk, olive oil and coconut oil, butter, ground beef, skinless boneless chicken breast, nutbutters (even the "natural" only nuts and salt type), so on. If I order a meal from a catering/lunch place that provides vegan or paleo meals or the like that fit a particular diet, I might be spending more money than necessary, but the fact it's "processed" by someone other than me doesn't make it less healthful than something I'd make myself.

    Using the moralistic term "clean" when there is no identifiable benefit to eating only so-called "clean" foods is a bad approach. And "processed" is used stupidly as a synonym for unhealthy or some such, and that's not what it means.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2016
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    bshrom wrote: »
    Most people in general know what a healthy diet consists of.

    I happen to agree with this (or I did before being exposed to MFP and seeing the appalling amount of misinformation and belief in weird myths). So what's the purpose of the term "clean" or the weird focus on processed or not?
  • rankinsect
    rankinsect Posts: 2,238 Member
    edited August 2016
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    cecsav1 wrote: »
    I get the math of calories in vs calories out, but I'm somewhat confused regarding minimum calorie intake and the hate on clean eating VS the eat whatever you want, as long as it's within your calories mindset.

    How is 1200 calories of ice cream, fast food, and alcohol better for you than 1000 calories of tuna, eggs, and veggies? The general reasoning behind consuming no less than 1200 calories (or 1500 for men) is that you won't get enough nutrients. However, I honestly believe you'd actually get better nutrition and be healthier on a diet that consisted of clean eating but less calories.

    How is the eat within your calorie limit better? There are a couple of reasons I would recommend it more:

    1. Losing weight isn't all that hard - keeping it off is much harder. If you lose by a strict method that you can't adhere to for a lifetime, you'll regain once you go back to how you ate before. You really need a diet you can not only tolerate but enjoy. If you can really enjoy 1000 calories of tuna, eggs, and veggies, and you're okay with a limited repertoire of food for the rest of your life, sure, try it out, but I will never give up anything to lose weight that I can't or won't give up forever.

    2. Going too low on calories is itself a bad thing. The goal isn't to lose as fast as possible, the goal is to be as successful as possible, and too rapid of weight loss makes success harder. Losing faster means you lose more lean mass and have greater metabolic adaptation, meaning when you reach your end weight, your maintenance calories are lower than they would have been if you lost slower. It's not a mark of dishonor to lose slowly - it means more time practicing the habits that will keep you successful later.

    I always say that my plan is to make the smallest set of changes that allow me to reach my health and fitness goals. It forces me to think about what is really necessary to reach my objectives, so I can focus on the wildly important.
  • bshrom
    bshrom Posts: 71 Member
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    It's the point of moving people away from items such as cookies, cakes, chips, pop tarts, ice cream to a diet of minimaly processed foods such as veggies, fruits, beans, and legumes. Honestly a lot of people are overfed but they are malnourished, I was one of those people! I am extremely passionate about a whole foods diet because it has radically changed my life. I lost weight in the past eating frozen diet meals and prepackaged diet foods but I still felt like garbage and I was always hungry. I switched to whole foods plant based and it completely changed my life. The point is not all calories are created equal. I could sit here and eat that bagged spinach, cucumbers, kale etc till the cows come home and nothings gonna happen, in fact I'm gonna lose weight, if you sit there and eat the same amount of calories in cookies and cakes your probably not gonna lose weight.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    Calorie is a calorie doesn't mean that a food is a food. No one claims all foods are the same -- that's a ridiculous strawman and an intentional misunderstanding of what a calorie is a calorie means.

    I am as big an advocate for eating a healthful diet as anyone (and I basically ate whole foods and lots of veg while gaining weight as well as losing -- not all fat people eat primarily sweets or ultra processed foods). The point is that a real understanding of nutrition is not achieved by thinking of "clean" and "unclean" foods. Many processed foods may be helpful in meeting nutrition goals -- for example, during the summer I have exchanged by vegetable omelet breakfast for a smoothie made (usually) with local in-season fruits and veg. But to meet my goals I sometimes add some Vega protein powder (highly processed) and occasionally add hemp hearts or flaxseed (also processed).

    Similarly, ease can be important in creating sustainable habits, so sometimes canned beans are more workable than dried, if one failed to plan ahead. This is not a bad meal, just because canned, and suggesting that it is is a terrible approach. I find pasta a really easy and fast meal, so eat it regularly -- I use lots of vegetables (whatever is in season or in my refrigerator) and lean meat, so I'd say that adding some pasta (and sometimes other "processed" monstrosities like olives or feta or goat cheese, etc.) doesn't turn it into a bad meal.

    Not to mention that focusing on what one does not eat isn't a particularly good way to make sure your diet is healthful (see the "I won't eat veg, can I still be a 'clean' eater" posts). Instead, I'd focus on including foods that meet your calorie goals and nutrition goals. If you do that, chances are you won't be eating lots of lot nutrient high cal foods -- it's not possible.

    I may look at this differently since those highly processed sweets that you seem concerned about have never been particularly appealing to me and so I never had to reduce them. Nor have I ever enjoyed diet frozen meals, although if one needs to and does enjoy them you can certainly include them in a healthful diet (I'd add extra veg to make them more filling, personally). Also, frozen meals can't be generalized about -- even as someone who does not eat them I know they vary a lot.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2016
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    queenliz99 wrote: »
    bshrom wrote: »
    It's the point of moving people away from items such as cookies, cakes, chips, pop tarts, ice cream to a diet of minimaly processed foods such as veggies, fruits, beans, and legumes. Honestly a lot of people are overfed but they are malnourished, I was one of those people! I am extremely passionate about a whole foods diet because it has radically changed my life. I lost weight in the past eating frozen diet meals and prepackaged diet foods but I still felt like garbage and I was always hungry. I switched to whole foods plant based and it completely changed my life. The point is not all calories are created equal. I could sit here and eat that bagged spinach, cucumbers, kale etc till the cows come home and nothings gonna happen, in fact I'm gonna lose weight, if you sit there and eat the same amount of calories in cookies and cakes your probably not gonna lose weight.

    Sorry, that does not make sense. I can eat 3000 calories of fruit and vegetables and not gain weight?

    I think it's that if you just eat fruit and veg you won't gain because you won't be able to manage that many calories. (Although saying if you eat that many calories in candies and cakes you will gain makes zero sense, you are correct.)

    Apart from the fact that many of us could manage lots of calories on fruit if we wanted to, for most such a diet would not be sustainable. And, it's not nutritionally sound -- you need more than fruits and veg to meet fat and protein goals. So if one is going to bother structuring a sensible diet anyway, why does it fail because some foods are processed (like bagged spinach)? Weird. Seems to me that (for example) eating low fat cottage cheese or smoked salmon with my vegetable omelet makes my breakfast more healthful, not less, and it certainly makes me more satisfied for longer and more likely to meet my goals for the day.
  • bshrom
    bshrom Posts: 71 Member
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    I actually on a good day consume anywhere from 2000-3000 calories and have lost 38 lbs so far and have never felt better in my life. You will see in my diary my calorie burn is fairly high Monday-thursday as a work on the receiving dock in a warehouse where everything is done by hand. Most of my weight was actually lost prior to starting this job where my only exercise was a 30-40 minute walk everyday. The thing is anyone can say whatever they want the results speak for themselves, I'm only 5 lbs from goal. Also I've never heard anyone say eating fruits and veggies is entirely wrong. Me and the thousands of other whole food plant based vegans must be miracles that defy logic. :D
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    bshrom wrote: »
    I actually on a good day consume anywhere from 2000-3000 calories and have lost 38 lbs so far and have never felt better in my life. You will see in my diary my calorie burn is fairly high Monday-thursday as a work on the receiving dock in a warehouse where everything is done by hand. Most of my weight was actually lost prior to starting this job where my only exercise was a 30-40 minute walk everyday. The thing is anyone can say whatever they want the results speak for themselves, I'm only 5 lbs from goal. Also I've never heard anyone say eating fruits and veggies is entirely wrong. Me and the thousands of other whole food plant based vegans must be miracles that defy logic. :D

    Clearly :)
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    bshrom wrote: »
    It's the point of moving people away from items such as cookies, cakes, chips, pop tarts, ice cream to a diet of minimaly processed foods such as veggies, fruits, beans, and legumes. Honestly a lot of people are overfed but they are malnourished, I was one of those people! I am extremely passionate about a whole foods diet because it has radically changed my life. I lost weight in the past eating frozen diet meals and prepackaged diet foods but I still felt like garbage and I was always hungry. I switched to whole foods plant based and it completely changed my life. The point is not all calories are created equal. I could sit here and eat that bagged spinach, cucumbers, kale etc till the cows come home and nothings gonna happen, in fact I'm gonna lose weight, if you sit there and eat the same amount of calories in cookies and cakes your probably not gonna lose weight.

    What if my dinner is lentils and veggies, but then I have a cookie for dessert? What if I have a Lean Cuisine for lunch with some baby carrots and homemade hummus? What if I have a Pop Tart as a snack after a day full of whole foods? Am I healthy? Can I lose weight?
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    bshrom wrote: »
    It's the point of moving people away from items such as cookies, cakes, chips, pop tarts, ice cream to a diet of minimaly processed foods such as veggies, fruits, beans, and legumes. Honestly a lot of people are overfed but they are malnourished, I was one of those people! I am extremely passionate about a whole foods diet because it has radically changed my life. I lost weight in the past eating frozen diet meals and prepackaged diet foods but I still felt like garbage and I was always hungry. I switched to whole foods plant based and it completely changed my life. The point is not all calories are created equal. I could sit here and eat that bagged spinach, cucumbers, kale etc till the cows come home and nothings gonna happen, in fact I'm gonna lose weight, if you sit there and eat the same amount of calories in cookies and cakes your probably not gonna lose weight.

    Sorry, that does not make sense. I can eat 3000 calories of fruit and vegetables and not gain weight?

    I think it's that if you just eat fruit and veg you won't gain because you won't be able to manage that many calories. (Although saying if you eat that many calories in candies and cakes you will gain makes zero sense, you are correct.)

    Apart from the fact that many of us could manage lots of calories on fruit if we wanted to, for most such a diet would not be sustainable. And, it's not nutritionally sound -- you need more than fruits and veg to meet fat and protein goals. So if one is going to bother structuring a sensible diet anyway, why does it fail because some foods are processed (like bagged spinach)? Weird. Seems to me that (for example) eating low fat cottage cheese or smoked salmon with my vegetable omelet makes my breakfast more healthful, not less, and it certainly makes me more satisfied for longer and more likely to meet my goals for the day.

    Roasted vegetables drizzled with olive oil may do it but olive oil is processed, so not sure.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
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    bshrom wrote: »
    Steel cut oats and baby carrots are clean foods. ??

    No they are processed, so probably not, but they are nutrient dense foods so why avoid them simply because they aren't clean?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    bshrom wrote: »
    I actually on a good day consume anywhere from 2000-3000 calories and have lost 38 lbs so far and have never felt better in my life. You will see in my diary my calorie burn is fairly high Monday-thursday as a work on the receiving dock in a warehouse where everything is done by hand. Most of my weight was actually lost prior to starting this job where my only exercise was a 30-40 minute walk everyday. The thing is anyone can say whatever they want the results speak for themselves, I'm only 5 lbs from goal. Also I've never heard anyone say eating fruits and veggies is entirely wrong. Me and the thousands of other whole food plant based vegans must be miracles that defy logic. :D

    can't see your diary so this is all dubious at best.

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