What do you think of people who are naturally slim?

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  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Maxematics wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Zipp237 wrote: »
    Depends. People who struggle to keep weight on have a struggle, too. Different, but not easy. It's especially hard for small men who have trouble getting buff when that's what they really want.
    If they aren't getting buff, it's because they aren't consuming the calories needed to do it. And while many may have a higher metabolic rate, math still applies. Eat more than your TDEE consistently and you'll gain weight.

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    You have no idea how much my boyfriend eats and still cant gain weight... he has see his gp aswell and they have told him also he will find it it hard. He has high medolism and works 7.30am until 6pm mon to firday and always on his feet. And he's over 6 ft aswell...

    If i could id show you a picture of his breakfast

    He's over 6 ft, works long shifts, and is always on his feet of course he has a high TDEE. I know guys that easily maintain on 3000-4000 calories, which (imo) is a massive amount of food.

    Exactly. I have a friend who is 6'3" and he's been lanky all his life. He decided to lift heavy weights and change his physique. His starting weight was 145 pounds and now he's 195 and his body has changed completely.

    His TDEE before doing any of this was around 2800+ with all the social activity he has daily and he'd always do work for his mom around the house. Now that it's been a few years and he lives on his own, has a desk job, and has to drive everywhere, even with the lifting in order to bulk he has had to eat 3500+ calories. He had no idea and just ate until he saw weight go on consistently, but he said he felt like he has to eat a lot just to bulk. When I told him to run the numbers and track his food for a few days, he was amazed at the calorie intake. This guy goes through a jar of peanut butter every two days to bulk. He just had no idea it would take as many calories as it did and to him it felt like he was eating a lot since he was used to eating so much less. Thyroid and other medical issues aside, hardgainers actually don't eat enough as it's been stated in this thread. There are not people who can magically eat thousands of calories beyond their TDEE and lose weight or maintain.



    This. I always find the people who say "I can't gain weight" or "I can't lose weight" have absolutely no idea how many calories they need nor how many calories they are eating.
    There are lots of people who think they eat alot, then come to one of my family parties and say, "Damn man, I thought I ate a lot till that party." Our parties last 5-6 hours and there PLENTY of food and variety of it too.

    party_zpsrvn8wmxk.jpg
    A typical party would involve at least this much food. And that's not even the deserts!!!! By the time the day is done, food is gone with most being eaten and the rest taken home.

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    That's a nice appetizer.
  • Machka9
    Machka9 Posts: 25,192 Member
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    Nothing, because they don't exist. There is no such thing.

    This ^^

  • rachel29hart
    rachel29hart Posts: 23 Member
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    My mom was literally a ballerina in her hey-day, and my dad works is *kitten* off physically because he enjoys it. Now that my mom is in her 60s, she has gained weight and feels awful, while my dad as a wonky hip and can't be outside as much. My sister is also naturally thin like my mom, whereas I am shaped like my dads sisters, who carry weight in the middle, and most of them are obese (I'm just overweight). It is annoying, and I've always been the biggest one in my family. I have no one close to me who can relate to what I am going through as all of my friends (including the boyfriend/his friends) are thin. However, I have begun to transition from being envious and even vindictive, to trying my best to understand that no body is alike, and that if others like me can go through this journey, then so can I.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    WinoGelato wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Well, the good news is that this is my last post because I am getting nowhere.

    When I was in my late teens and early 20's, I ate like a horse, out-ate my friends, and I was skin and bones (as were my father, uncle and first cousin when they were in their late teens and early 20's). And I even bought a product called "Weight-On" when I was in college. Didn't work.

    I am not a freak of nature. There are millions of others like me. If you want to reject this undeniable fact of life, so be it if it makes you happy.

    But the thing is, you don't know exactly how many calories you were eating daily. Did you track your intake precisely or just using your, "I ate like a horse" method.

    Track calories? A college student in a fraternity who tracks calories? Really? Find me one.

    I ate more than others, and had no more physical activity than others. I was the bean pole. Again, it is beyond belief that people cannot accept this simple and factual statement.

    Right - you didn't track calories when you were in college and the people you are comparing yourself against didn't either. That's not surprising. However, if you don't have any kind of data, then how can you be so sure that you ate more than these frat boys? That is the reason that people can't accept your anecdotal statement. It is a recollection, likely clouded by time and emotion, that has resulted in your staunch belief in something that is probably just not as factual as you would like it to be. It is beyond belief to me that you cannot accept the possibility that you might be misremembering what you ate, what they ate, or what your activity level was like. Without any numbers, there is just no way of knowing.

    Well if you surveyed my frat brothers they would verify what I said. Again, there is no reason for me to make this up. CICO for me met a lot more calories than the average person.

    And sorry, I don't have a diary of everything I did 35 years ago.

    Well, I'm convinced. How about everyone else?

    I take everything frat bros say as 100% gospel. What could be smarter!?
  • ehine1
    ehine1 Posts: 28 Member
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    I find a lot of younger people think they are naturally slim, until the day age catches up with them and they realize they can't keep it up any more; around the mid twenties in my experience. :)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    Maxematics wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JaneiR36 wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    Well, the good news is that this is my last post because I am getting nowhere.

    When I was in my late teens and early 20's, I ate like a horse, out-ate my friends, and I was skin and bones (as were my father, uncle and first cousin when they were in their late teens and early 20's). And I even bought a product called "Weight-On" when I was in college. Didn't work.

    I am not a freak of nature. There are millions of others like me. If you want to reject this undeniable fact of life, so be it if it makes you happy.

    But the thing is, you don't know exactly how many calories you were eating daily. Did you track your intake precisely or just using your, "I ate like a horse" method.

    Track calories? A college student in a fraternity who tracks calories? Really? Find me one.

    I ate more than others, and had no more physical activity than others. I was the bean pole. Again, it is beyond belief that people cannot accept this simple and factual statement.

    Which would be why I gave you some easy questions that anyone could remember decades after the fact - to compare your thin self to your weight gaining self at different points in time. You complain about the hard question but didn't answer the easy one, either.

    If you've ever read a scientific paper, you may find areas like Observations, methods, results, conclusion. You're stating your observation over and over again, no meat in between and no attempt to share relevant facts, and asking us to arrive at the same conclusions as you did. I'm not sure what you're looking for, here.

    And where is your evidence that bone-thin 20-year-olds eat less and exercise more when they say they don't ?

    Like the other poster said, you can't follow these people 24 hours a day. So it works both ways.

    Did you take psyche 101? Cause you learn that your memories are not reliable. Particularly when remembering a time with fondness.

    My memory, in terms of how much I ate when I was in college, and in terms of how little exercise I did, is 100% perfect. Again, denying the obvious that some people burn a lot more calories than other people.

    This entire thread has been filled with people who at one point in their life, had the same mindset as you, until they faced reality and had the epiphany that they or others were either eating less than they thought, or they were more active than they thought. The only thing obvious is that you aren't willing to even consider that your personal perspective may be slightly clouded creating bias.

    Apparently, it does not fit the narrative that everyone has here. Weigh all your food. Measure all your food. Count the calories of every strawberry you eat. It's the only way.

    But why does claiming that you ate more and weighed less fly in the face of this narrative. It's still CICO. My CI and CO were just more than the average person. Why is this so hard to believe?

    And I'm not winning a contest. I am just stating a FACT. 6' 1", 145 lbs. when I was 21. WHY? And please don't repeat the same thing - you ate less than you thought, or your memory is bad, or you fidgeted a lot. Tired of hearing that.

    I knew I recognized your name this whole time as a poster who seems to take an issue with the use of a food scale, but I wasn't going to write anything about it until now. I remember that thread too and it was similar to this one.

    Nobody expects you to provide a food log from your college days, but the fact of the matter is that when you're claiming that you defy science, you'd better be able to back it up. It's absolutely not hard to believe that your CICO was more than the average person, but you seem to be implying that you were so much of an outlier that you could sit there and consume 10K calories while your friends consumed 5K and they'd gain but you wouldn't and that just doesn't happen. Your height alone gives you a few more calories.

    I ran a 5'9", 150 pound, 18 year old sedentary male through a TDEE calculator; he'd need 2029 on average to maintain. A 6'1", 150 pound, 18 year old sedentary male gets 2105 calories on average. A difference of 76 calories from height alone which is approximately one medium apple, one large egg, or one extra roasted chicken drumstick. Change the activity levels to moderately active and the average difference becomes 98 calories; that's around 12 extra tortilla chips, an extra hot dog without a bun, an extra vodka soda or light beer, or an extra 2.5 ounces of broiled salmon. Do you see how all of that can easily add up and seem like a lot more food throughout the day? This doesn't even take differences in bodyfat into consideration.

    Now, I've noticed that you're 57 years old which means that you were in college from approximately 1977 to 1981, give or take a few years. You know what hasn't changed much, if at all, between then and now? The calorie needs of a growing boy/young man. You know what has changed? Portion sizes. Everything was much smaller back then than it is now. So let's say your CO meant you could eat 500 calories more than your friends without gaining. In 2016 that's not much, maybe a burger from a fast food joint, a bagel, or two small slices of pizza. Back in 1979 to 1982? You could probably get 500 calories out of two burgers, two bagels, or three small slices of pizza. Also, how much food ordering was actually done by college boys back then? I'd assume not even half as much as now. Due to that, if you were eating mostly home cooked meals or meals prepared in the school cafeteria, you could have easily been able to put more on your plate for not as much calories as now. There are so many factors to consider that it's a bit illogical to state "I out-ate all my friends at ALL times and was WAY skinnier". You just cannot assert that without knowing what your friends ate 24/7. I could eat a huge bowl of salad and it will only be 240 calories and take me an hour to eat while my friend could have a Snickers bar for approximately the same amount of calories but finish it in 60 seconds. Who seems like they ate more though?

    I have a friend just like you were back then; two years ago he was 145 pounds at 6'3" but he ate M&Ms or peanuts by the handful several times per day. You know what else he did? Yard work for his mom around the house all the time, socializing with friends a lot throughout the day, ran errands. He didn't just sit on his butt all day, eat, and magically not gain weight. Now he's trying to build muscle and he's 195 pounds. To him it felt like he had to eat SO much to gain weight because he wasn't used to eating that much. He also moved to a place where you need to drive everywhere instead of walk, so that decreased his TDEE. It doesn't have to be lifting weights at the gym for your body to count it. If I get up now and do 10 jumping jacks, I could probably get away with eating one more strawberry today than I would be able to otherwise. Movement is movement, no matter how everyday it seems. This is why at 5'3" and 108 pounds, I'm able to get away with eating 2000+ calories and not gaining weight on many days when women who are heavier or even taller than me cannot. I do my 45 to 60 minutes of hard exercise in the morning, but the rest of the day I'm on my feet running errands, taking walks, doing housework, etc. All of those things, even if they are light work, increase my TDEE.

    That's all very interesting but you miss an important point - my fellow frat bothers who ate less than me and did the same amount of exercise I did (walking to class) were heavier than me. Back then there were no joggers, and nobody knew where the weight room was.

    Wait, so this isn't recent, but is supposed to be based on your memory of what you and lots of other people did back before anyone jogged (the first jogging boom was the '70s, and I jogged in college in the late 80s/early 90s) or went to the weight room (women went to the weight room by the early '90s, I suspect that frat bros started way before that, although my college got rid of frats in the early '60s--guys used the weight room, though, when I was there).

    Anyway, sorry, memories of the '70s or whatever are not all that compelling when it comes to how much exercise everyone did and how much they ate even if you knew (I couldn't tell you how much people I was close with or lived with in college ate, seems odd that anyone thinks they could).
  • starryphoenix
    starryphoenix Posts: 381 Member
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    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.

    Who has a rare congenital disease according to a quick search. Diseases have already been mentioned. I believe those in this thread are talking about otherwise heathly individuals.
  • evileen99
    evileen99 Posts: 1,564 Member
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    Over time, I've learned that these individuals who are naturally slim simply have better habits than I do. Their portion sizes are more reasonable, they don't eat excessively, they're more active, and so forth. My thinking was quite skewed in that women who fretted over gaining a pound or two, and exercised regularly, were "obsessed". I never thought to consider that their definition of eating "a lot" was probably very, very different than my definition of eating "a lot". For them, working out and eating conscientiously was THEIR normal - whereas mine was no exercise and unrestrained gluttony. I'm not "naturally fat", I just never bothered looking after my weight.

    My sister gets frustrated when people accuse her of being "naturally thin" and "oh, you can just eat whatever you want!" They generally have no idea that she used to weigh about 220 lbs. They have no idea that despite happily chowing down on a generous slice of cake, she is otherwise very careful about how she eats.

    So you are going to tell me with a straight face that if you took, say, 200 women who are 5'6" and 150 lbs., and gave them the exact same number of calories for two months, and they did the same amount of exercise in those two months, that at the end of two months they would have all lost the same weight?

    You're not really saying that, are you?

    IF you could control percentage of lean body mass, level of activity including fidgeting, waking hours, etc then yes...they would all be a remarkably similar weight at the end...but that's a big IF isn't it? And that's the point. When you add up all the variables you get an unlimited number of reasons why one person will gain weight while another won't.

    Are you trying to tell me with a straight face that if you put two people in the same room with all variables accounted for that one person will be fat and another will be skinny?

    So how many more calories to fidgeters burn than non-fidgeters?

    Up to 400 extra calories a day by one study.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.

    Who has a rare congenital disease according to a quick search. Diseases have already been mentioned. I believe those in this thread are talking about otherwise heathly individuals.

    Rare as in only 2 other people in the entire world are known to have it.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,996 Member
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    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
    Who has a rare congenital disease according to a quick search. Diseases have already been mentioned. I believe those in this thread are talking about otherwise heathly individuals.

    Right, having a rare congenital disease automatically excludes one from being "naturally slim."

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,701 Member
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    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
    BARRING any health issues, there aren't really any "naturally thin" people. It's basic math which many on here making claims of "naturally thin" people don't seem to understand.

    I guess the only way is to explain it in term of money. Spend what you earn, you neither lose or gain(this would be maintenance in weight loss). Spend more than you earn, you are then in debt (this would be a deficit). To get out of debt, you reduce your spending (physical activity). When you make more than you spend, you have a savings (surplus or weight gain).
    Hopefully that helps.



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  • srecupid
    srecupid Posts: 660 Member
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    I want to strangle them by their very tiny neck. Everytime I see a thin person at Portillos I get so jealous because in my head I know how many calories are in that cake and I just assume people eat like that all the time. Hell if I could get away with It I would. Who doesn't want a milk shake with cake blended in?
  • healthy491
    healthy491 Posts: 384 Member
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    I actually think there are people who are lucky enough to be naturally slim. I know a person who is a nail technician so she sits all day , she doesnt train and smokes and eats a lot. Yet , she is still slim.
    Another friend of mine also eats a lot of junk and never seems to gain weight.
    So yeah , i think genetics and all does have an effect.
  • robininfl
    robininfl Posts: 1,137 Member
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    ninerbuff wrote: »
    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
    BARRING any health issues, there aren't really any "naturally thin" people. It's basic math which many on here making claims of "naturally thin" people don't seem to understand.

    I guess the only way is to explain it in term of money. Spend what you earn, you neither lose or gain(this would be maintenance in weight loss). Spend more than you earn, you are then in debt (this would be a deficit). To get out of debt, you reduce your spending (physical activity). When you make more than you spend, you have a savings (surplus or weight gain).
    Hopefully that helps.



    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Yeah, but this excludes inherited money, trust fund babies, etc. The starting line is not the same for everyone, money wise.

    Is the starting line the same for people? Will all people of the same age and gender, same mass with the same job and workout schedule, putting in equal effort, sleeping the same number of hours, burn exactly the same number of calories?

    I would find that much more startling than the idea that different people might burn at different rates.

    Again, no argument against in vs out, that is very clearly true. No magic foods, no magic meal timing. But how much a body burns in a day has to vary among people, right?
  • ogtmama
    ogtmama Posts: 1,403 Member
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    robininfl wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
    BARRING any health issues, there aren't really any "naturally thin" people. It's basic math which many on here making claims of "naturally thin" people don't seem to understand.

    I guess the only way is to explain it in term of money. Spend what you earn, you neither lose or gain(this would be maintenance in weight loss). Spend more than you earn, you are then in debt (this would be a deficit). To get out of debt, you reduce your spending (physical activity). When you make more than you spend, you have a savings (surplus or weight gain).
    Hopefully that helps.



    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Yeah, but this excludes inherited money, trust fund babies, etc. The starting line is not the same for everyone, money wise.

    Is the starting line the same for people? Will all people of the same age and gender, same mass with the same job and workout schedule, putting in equal effort, sleeping the same number of hours, burn exactly the same number of calories?

    I would find that much more startling than the idea that different people might burn at different rates.

    Again, no argument against in vs out, that is very clearly true. No magic foods, no magic meal timing. But how much a body burns in a day has to vary among people, right?

    I think their point is that the math still applies. You were lucky enough to be born into a family that eats well, teaches you to eat well, has no predisposition toward emotional issues with food and still...if YOU eat too much (or too little) your weight will change.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,701 Member
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    robininfl wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    liahna wrote: »
    If you haven't heard of the girl who can't gain weight no matter how hard she tries look up Lizzie Velasquez.
    BARRING any health issues, there aren't really any "naturally thin" people. It's basic math which many on here making claims of "naturally thin" people don't seem to understand.

    I guess the only way is to explain it in term of money. Spend what you earn, you neither lose or gain(this would be maintenance in weight loss). Spend more than you earn, you are then in debt (this would be a deficit). To get out of debt, you reduce your spending (physical activity). When you make more than you spend, you have a savings (surplus or weight gain).
    Hopefully that helps.



    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    Yeah, but this excludes inherited money, trust fund babies, etc. The starting line is not the same for everyone, money wise.
    While people can be at surplus at the start (fat kid to fat adult), reduce that bank account without resupplying money and one will eventually be broke (surplus to deficit).
    Is the starting line the same for people? Will all people of the same age and gender, same mass with the same job and workout schedule, putting in equal effort, sleeping the same number of hours, burn exactly the same number of calories?
    People's metabolic rate will be different based on physical activity they do daily, how much lean mass they have and how they rest, however CALORIE DEFICIT works for everyone the same.
    I would find that much more startling than the idea that different people might burn at different rates.
    No one's ever said that everyone burns at the same rate.
    Again, no argument against in vs out, that is very clearly true. No magic foods, no magic meal timing. But how much a body burns in a day has to vary among people, right?
    Answered above. Some may have to put in more effort to burn the same amount of calories as someone else for the same given physical activity. Weight directly affects how much one burns versus when they are lighter. Intensity matters. Duration matters. Whomever the person may be, they need to get an approximate of how much they burn to figure out how much they can consume to lose weight.
    Many times when people stall or actually plateau (a rarity), they are burning much LESS than they think and end up eating at maintenance. The one thing that they can adjust without eating less is usually their activity.

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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,701 Member
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    srecupid wrote: »
    I want to strangle them by their very tiny neck. Everytime I see a thin person at Portillos I get so jealous because in my head I know how many calories are in that cake and I just assume people eat like that all the time. Hell if I could get away with It I would. Who doesn't want a milk shake with cake blended in?
    Why be jealous? Again, obviously if they are thin, it's because they don't consume more than they burn. That milk shake and cake may put them a calorie limit for the day and they don't end up eating anymore.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,701 Member
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    healthy491 wrote: »
    I actually think there are people who are lucky enough to be naturally slim. I know a person who is a nail technician so she sits all day , she doesnt train and smokes and eats a lot. Yet , she is still slim.
    Another friend of mine also eats a lot of junk and never seems to gain weight.
    So yeah , i think genetics and all does have an effect.
    Nope. Unless they eat more than they burn, they aren't going to gain weight. Even people who exercise profusely to gain muscle have this issue.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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