What do you think of people who are naturally slim?
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I was naturally fat until I started paying attention to my intake in my early/mid twenties. Weird, I know.20
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That's them, you're you. I've swum at an Olympic pool at my university and had more gorgeous swimmers look at my muscular body than at "skinny" girls with no tone. Be happy. Eat healthy. Cook for yourself mostly.1
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I make up my mind about a person after having a good long talk with them. I wouldn't want to think one thing or another about their supposed discipline or eating habits just as I hope people don't judge me based solely on how I look.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »For those of us who are or were thin during our 20s, another thing that should be considered is the role of anabolic hormones in metabolism. Even after most physical growth is complete, growth hormone remains high for some time and then declines during this decade in life. In general, that is irrespective of activity level and eating habits.
^ This was me.
I was always underweight when I was growing up, because when I was that young my metabolism was out of control. I can remember one day when I was at a college campus when I was in ninth grade. Lunch consisted of eating a snack sized bag of chips, cookies and a sandwich, as well as having a soda. I walked across the campus and was hungry enough to eat an apple that I'd saved because I was full. If I ate that now... well, I wouldn't, because the chips and the cookies would be too much, along with the sandwich and the soda.
I would have two big plates of pasta at dinner, etc. I ate just as much as anyone else in my family and I didn't gain weight. Was I super active? Maybe, but I wasn't involved in any sports. I'm not an athletic person.
When I got older, my metabolism slowed down for exactly the reason ForecastJason states. At that point, eating the way I always had, I began gaining weight. Between the age of 18 and 38, I gained over 70 pounds. It's only now that I'm paying attention to my calories and activity (something I didn't have to do when I was young) that I'm getting down to a healthy weight again.0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
This is an excellent point. You see this a lot in other threads when people complain about not losing weight when they see their more slender friends eating as much or *gasp* more than them. The key is that we never see those people 24 hours a day and cannot make assumptions on their overall habits based on the small sample size of what we do see.
Excellent point. My overweight sister insistently argues with me that her husband has a very "high" metabolism, much higher than hers, as he eats the same meals with her but stays skinny. Despite the fact that the meals they share are in the minority and the fact that my brother in law clearly says that when they don't see each other during weekdays he doesn't even bother to eat, which is majority of the week. I have clearly seen this pattern from him (tuning out eating) when the family gets together on weekend. He's "lazy" at getting to the table. On contrary my sister and other overweight people just couldn't wait to start the meals. They even snack on appetizers through out the time.
This is consistently true in my observation of skinny vs overweight people. Overweight people simply eat too much AND too frequently. Skinny people, either forcibly follow a diet discipline which they are conscious of, or they are not much into eating. They tune out. Eating doesn't excite them that much.
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Just wanted to say how genuinely happy I am this thread focused so much on the science of CICO, and how once a calorie is a calorie, it doesn't matter. There is SO much misinformation out that, that anyone following this discussion will no doubt come away with a better and more confident understanding on what they need to do and how. Very insightful, even for people who know it's all about CICO, it's always important to come back to the basics.
On a side note, I was just reading the fitbit community threads, and it's scary to see so much discussion on starvation mode, and every other myth being thrown around and taught to those who are seeking advice. I wish there was a section for everyone to post in that was focused on the science of CICO, where all myth could be expelled. That way those needing advice would know exactly where to go and what to read for answers. Because posting in the general weight loss section opens doors to any number of uneducated responses.
So, thanks to everyone who contributes their knowledge. It's been insightful, and quite frankly, pretty fun to read too.10 -
If you don't count all the people who are naturally slim, then they don't exist. If you do count them, though, they exist.cwolfman13 wrote: »Things like hyperthyroid and other medical conditions aside, "naturally slim" is largely a matter of perception.
I'm not sure what your point is...1 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
On the other hand, I watch my mother eat the same things and she always cleans her plates at restaurants. She eats such a larger quantity that I do. If I ate that much of those foods, I would definitely gain weight.
This is how my stepsons were. They thought they had magic metabolisms and couldn't gain weight because they ate until they were full and never gained weight. What they didn't realize was that 1. the meals I made were moderate calorie--no fried foods, no rich sauces, etc.; 2) it didn't take much to fill them up; and 3) they were active all day
Then they went to college and BAM! All that pizza and beer and sleeping until noon packed 10-15 pounds on each of them their first semester. No magic metabolisms for them, just CICO.
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to explain that. When I first understood CICO and compared that to what slim people said they were eating, I assumed they were lying. But what you said here helps me understand that they weren't necessarily lying; they were eating what THEY considered a truckload, which was just less than what I felt stuffed with. This makes so much sense lol5 -
Somatotypes have been shown to be a myth. While people have different frames and builds, designating them to a somatotype just confuses them on how they should eat, when the truth is is that it's just basic math.Idk. My cousin has an ectomorph build. According to her, she tries to gain weight but has not been successful so far even after 4 children she still doesn't have any curves. Genetically blessed? If you like that shape I guess. BTW her Mom was that way too, now in her 50's she's fat. Not even curvy fat, just shapeless fat.
People think I'm genetically thin just because I've never been overweight. (I used to weigh 118 before my twins in my 20's) What they don't know, is I've always been active and for most of my life and I've never just eaten whatever I want. Although last winter was an exception. I tried that for the first time and gained nearly 14lbs in a month. The good thing is, with dedication, I lost that weight. I don't mind eating right and exercising. I feel better and look better. So I think I pulled the long straw!
Bottom line is, I don't envy anyone! You don't know what they deal with behind closed doors.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Gravity is a theory. But we apply basics to it understanding how it works (IE hold something then drop it. It's likely going to fall unless there's something holding it up).ScreeField wrote: »MichelleLei1 wrote: »ScreeField wrote: »Body weight is the tangential consequence of something we can't yet explain.
Pretty sure the laws of thermodynamics and the direct relationship between energy and mass are pretty well defined.
And application of such ( to human bodies ) are based on hypothesis and theory not law.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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IMO, perfect body.stevencloser wrote: »
If they aren't getting buff, it's because they aren't consuming the calories needed to do it. And while many may have a higher metabolic rate, math still applies. Eat more than your TDEE consistently and you'll gain weight.Depends. People who struggle to keep weight on have a struggle, too. Different, but not easy. It's especially hard for small men who have trouble getting buff when that's what they really want.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Or it's because they're short guys who are small-boned and will just never be tall or very muscular. It shouldn't matter to them, IMO, but it does. Small people might get fat, but they'll never be big people. That's life.
Believe it or not, it is difficult for some people to keep their weight up. Maybe you studied that when studying nutrition? It's usually included.
5'9''.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to explain that. When I first understood CICO and compared that to what slim people said they were eating, I assumed they were lying. But what you said here helps me understand that they weren't necessarily lying; they were eating what THEY considered a truckload, which was just less than what I felt stuffed with. This makes so much sense lol
Exactly ... when I came here I read a thread where people talked about how many calories they used to eat in one sitting and nearly fell off my chair in surprise.
I thought I had a huge appetite. I thought there were times when I was consuming absolutely massive amounts of food. But my upper limit is about 3000 calories on really high calorie occasions, and that was usually spread out over several hours ... cheesy garlic bread as an appetizer, pizza maybe half an hour later, dessert an hour or two later, or something like that. And for me, that was a truckload ... something I didn't do very often.
But in that thread, people were claiming to eat twice that amount and more, and not just occasionally.
I actually thought some of them were stretching the truth with their claims because I couldn't conceive how it would be possible to eat as much as they were claiming.
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to explain that. When I first understood CICO and compared that to what slim people said they were eating, I assumed they were lying. But what you said here helps me understand that they weren't necessarily lying; they were eating what THEY considered a truckload, which was just less than what I felt stuffed with. This makes so much sense lol
Exactly ... when I came here I read a thread where people talked about how many calories they used to eat in one sitting and nearly fell off my chair in surprise.
I thought I had a huge appetite. I thought there were times when I was consuming absolutely massive amounts of food. But my upper limit is about 3000 calories on really high calorie occasions, and that was usually spread out over several hours ... cheesy garlic bread as an appetizer, pizza maybe half an hour later, dessert an hour or two later, or something like that. And for me, that was a truckload ... something I didn't do very often.
But in that thread, people were claiming to eat twice that amount and more, and not just occasionally.
I actually thought some of them were stretching the truth with their claims because I couldn't conceive how it would be possible to eat as much as they were claiming.
Trust me. You don't get to 300+ pounds by maxing out at 3000 calories on rare occasions
A whole kilogram of nuts (nearly 2 pounds) a day was not uncommon for me. That's 6k calories in nuts alone. The good thing is that I could not afford to buy a whole kilogram every day or I would have ended up on TV.8 -
Good point @Machka9 I've had days where I've eaten whatever and how much i wanted, not caring at all about calories, and i usually maxed out at 2500 calories.0
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Ive said before on here that my sister and I were 'naturally' skinny. We didn't realise until we were in young adulthood that when our friends said they had 'pigged out' - it was totally different to what we meant.
We didn't grow up with much 'junk' food or soda in the house (no take-aways as we were not well-off). a 'pig out' for us was a large volume of low cal fruit and veg e.g. a huge basket of plums freshly picked from our tree, or a slice of mums home made cake, perhaps 5 small cookies. Plus we were very active. (plus anything treat like was always shared between the family- seriously - a mid week 'dessert' could have been 3 slices of tinned peach each, maybe with a tiny scoop of low cal vanilla ice cream)
Our friends idea was a Chinese take-away, whole pizzas, several bars of chocolate at once, sodas etc. I was totally surprised when I learnt this as I genuinely didn't know people ate this way. More than one bar of chocolate? Wow! A take-away- and its not a special occasion? Pop? and none of it was shared? Wow!
My whole world of eating opened up at university when I started to eat like my peers e.g. take out pizza after drinking! I ended up gaining the freshman 12- and when I moved back home mums home cooking etc. soon got it all back off me. I was kinda fun while I was eating that way- but also kinda gross at the same time. (i missed fresh plums!)5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
Yeah, this was me as a teenager and into my early 20s. I thought I ate a ton, but looking back I really didn't. I did eat as much as I wanted without thinking about it, and I maintained my reasonably thin weight, because what I wanted lined up with what I needed to do that at my level of activity (inconsistent when it comes to intentional exercise, but I walked a lot because that was a necessary part of my daily life running around a campus or, later, a city)...
From observing and talking to people I know who have always been thin (including my sister), some are naturally thin in that they never have to think about it (most of the ones I know are either extremely active or ]not interested in food much), but most do think about it some or have intentionally cultivated helpful habits. They just realized the need to do this before getting fat.
People who are "naturally thin" sometimes don't even think about food. My mom said she ate whatever she wanted and didn't gain weight. But she didn't think or care about food much and often forgot whether or not she ate or missed a meal. She was full on small amounts and would eat a child sized cheeseburger and small fries, for instance. Or she would have 1 cinnamon toast or 1 waffle for breakfast. I do think perceptions of portion sizes and the definition of eating "all you want" is way different from one person to the other.
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Whitezombiegirl wrote: »Ive said before on here that my sister and I were 'naturally' skinny. We didn't realise until we were in young adulthood that when our friends said they had 'pigged out' - it was totally different to what we meant.
We didn't grow up with much 'junk' food or soda in the house (no take-aways as we were not well-off). a 'pig out' for us was a large volume of low cal fruit and veg e.g. a huge basket of plums freshly picked from our tree, or a slice of mums home made cake, perhaps 5 small cookies. Plus we were very active. (plus anything treat like was always shared between the family- seriously - a mid week 'dessert' could have been 3 slices of tinned peach each, maybe with a tiny scoop of low cal vanilla ice cream)
Our friends idea was a Chinese take-away, whole pizzas, several bars of chocolate at once, sodas etc. I was totally surprised when I learnt this as I genuinely didn't know people ate this way. More than one bar of chocolate? Wow! A take-away- and its not a special occasion? Pop? and none of it was shared? Wow!
My whole world of eating opened up at university when I started to eat like my peers e.g. take out pizza after drinking! I ended up gaining the freshman 12- and when I moved back home mums home cooking etc. soon got it all back off me. I was kinda fun while I was eating that way- but also kinda gross at the same time. (i missed fresh plums!)
I grew up the same way.
Dessert was maybe a small jello or a bit of tinned fruit or something. We were allowed 1 cookie and a glass of milk when we came home from school. To this day two cookies at once seems a little indulgent. Chocolate bars were only for rare special occasions, and I would have been in my late teens before I had a whole one to myself ... prior to that I had to share with my brother.
Saturdays were our special food day ... when one of my parents would make pizza or lasagne or Chinese food or something from scratch. The rest of the time it was the basic meat and three veg.
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Christine_72 wrote: »Good point @Machka9 I've had days where I've eaten whatever and how much i wanted, not caring at all about calories, and i usually maxed out at 2500 calories.
Same here. I've maxed out at 2300 calories on a day when I eat "whatever I want". My maintenance calories are 1800.
But I hate feeling full and puffy and will immediately work to cut back on calories over the next several days to compensate.
An example of "feeling stuffed" at a meal would be eating an 8 oz steak instead of a 6 oz one or eating a second helping of something. But I don't do that often and do feel uncomfortable and bloated when I do. I try to remember that and use it as a deterrent for the next time.0 -
Whitezombiegirl wrote: »Ive said before on here that my sister and I were 'naturally' skinny. We didn't realise until we were in young adulthood that when our friends said they had 'pigged out' - it was totally different to what we meant.
We didn't grow up with much 'junk' food or soda in the house (no take-aways as we were not well-off). a 'pig out' for us was a large volume of low cal fruit and veg e.g. a huge basket of plums freshly picked from our tree, or a slice of mums home made cake, perhaps 5 small cookies. Plus we were very active. (plus anything treat like was always shared between the family- seriously - a mid week 'dessert' could have been 3 slices of tinned peach each, maybe with a tiny scoop of low cal vanilla ice cream)
Our friends idea was a Chinese take-away, whole pizzas, several bars of chocolate at once, sodas etc. I was totally surprised when I learnt this as I genuinely didn't know people ate this way. More than one bar of chocolate? Wow! A take-away- and its not a special occasion? Pop? and none of it was shared? Wow!
My whole world of eating opened up at university when I started to eat like my peers e.g. take out pizza after drinking! I ended up gaining the freshman 12- and when I moved back home mums home cooking etc. soon got it all back off me. I was kinda fun while I was eating that way- but also kinda gross at the same time. (i missed fresh plums!)
I grew up the same way.
Dessert was maybe a small jello or a bit of tinned fruit or something. We were allowed 1 cookie and a glass of milk when we came home from school. To this day two cookies at once seems a little indulgent. Chocolate bars were only for rare special occasions, and I would have been in my late teens before I had a whole one to myself ... prior to that I had to share with my brother.
Saturdays were our special food day ... when one of my parents would make pizza or lasagne or Chinese food or something from scratch. The rest of the time it was the basic meat and three veg.
My mom monitored us as kids. She would say, "You can have 2 pieces of candy." My brother and I would have to split things. If we got Hostess HoHos where two came in a package then we would each get one. My mom even split the Popsicles that had two sticks in half and we each would get one half of it. We didn't eat a lot of sweets growing up though. Those were occasional treats that were nice surprises. We would occasionally go to the ice cream place and get to pick out the flavor we wanted for one scoop on a cone. That was a big deal!0
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