What do you think of people who are naturally slim?
Replies
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Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?0 -
Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
I don't think anyone's really disputing this level of detail. We're saying, lots of people probably don't have 113 lb 5'9" friends who eat 3000 calories everyday, sit on their heine all day and never gain a pound. Yeah I definitely know people who will take you to their favorite restaurant in the world, then not eat a thing because they just aren't hungry. Or you bought the same yummy food early in the day, I'm already on my fourth meal by nightfall and they still haven't eaten it or anything else. I'd have hunger burning a hole in my stomach by then and certainly couldn't do it1 -
But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
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People have different metabolisms, but the TRUTH is that if someone continually eats more than they burn, they will get fat. Opinions and anecdotes don't override science as much as you'd like them to.gonetothedogs19 wrote: »RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
Yes, another naturally slim person.
But here come the comments - "she's really not eating as much as you think she is eating," or, "she's secretly running five miles a day and not telling you," or, "you don't know how much running around she has to do with that kid."
Denial, denial, denial that there are naturally slim people because they have fast metabolisms.
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Over time, I've learned that these individuals who are naturally slim simply have better habits than I do. Their portion sizes are more reasonable, they don't eat excessively, they're more active, and so forth. My thinking was quite skewed in that women who fretted over gaining a pound or two, and exercised regularly, were "obsessed". I never thought to consider that their definition of eating "a lot" was probably very, very different than my definition of eating "a lot". For them, working out and eating conscientiously was THEIR normal - whereas mine was no exercise and unrestrained gluttony. I'm not "naturally fat", I just never bothered looking after my weight.
My sister gets frustrated when people accuse her of being "naturally thin" and "oh, you can just eat whatever you want!" They generally have no idea that she used to weigh about 220 lbs. They have no idea that despite happily chowing down on a generous slice of cake, she is otherwise very careful about how she eats.5 -
Lol, Gilad used to crack me up because he wore women's spandex. Dude was in great shape though. I watched it more for the Hawaiian chick who was hot and always on his show.WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »When asked why her son was so skinny, the mother responded, "I don't understand. He's eating me out of house and home, and he can't put on a pound." The other mother said, "He eats like a horse. I've never seen anything like it. Can't figure it out."
It is beyond my comprehension that most of the posters here cannot acknowledge the obvious - there are naturally skinny people, particularly those under the age of 25. The word metabolism is in the dictionary for a reason. And for most of us, our metabolism slows as we get older.
You just can't consume the same number of calories at 50 that you consumed at 21 (assuming similar amounts of exercise) without the consequence of weight gain. This is sky is blue and grass is green stuff.
It's beyond my comprehension as well that people can't acknowledge that young adults are often much more active than adults even if they aren't doing intentional exercise.
And as mentioned many times in this thread, yes, metabolism slows as you age, but not to the degree that people here seem to think. The far bigger factor is becoming less active as you age.
Yep. Also, if they are growing, they will have higher metabolisms. Nothing surprising. And there's some degree of muscle loss on average -- that's why the calculators that estimate TDEE without BF% ask age, and the one that uses BF% doesn't need age.
In the late 70's and early 80's, the only people that went to gyms were muscle heads. Running/jogging was not common. Bicycles were for kids.
My assumption is the average 55-year-old does more exercise today than he or she did when they were 20. Been to a gym lately and see the older people?
And they don't eat more at 55 than they ate at 20. Yet, if you ask most of them, they probably say they can't eat what they ate when they were 20.
This was not my experience in the 70's and 80's. Free standing gyms were not nearly as common as now, but almost every rec center had one and aerobic classes were all the rage. Dancercize, Jazzercize, or just basic aerobics. Jogging was also very popular. Jane Fonda began releasing workout videos in 1982.
But maybe I'm just from bizzaro land because I'm 53 and since I learned out how ride a bike as a child, there has never been a time in my life when I didn't own and ride one.
Yeah, I just said I disagreed and remembered the time period, but since you spelled it out I'll agree -- I definitely remember aerobics being a big thing, my mom did Jazzercize and my parents went square dancing (LOL), the first jogging boom was in the '70s (Royko used to make fun of it in columns, but people did it), my parents had bikes, as well as my sister and I, weights were more for boys than girls until later in the '80s IME, but they were hardly uncommon, people would of course do things like play tennis, so on. Plus, Richard Simmons.
Yep. When I was a kid in the '80s, I woke up every morning at 6 am to do Mousercise on The Disney Channel. I also did the Get in Shape, Girl tapes with my sister. Then from around 10 am until dinner when we were forced to come in, we were outside playing kickball, tag, Red Light, Green Light, double dutch, and a multitude of other games. Meanwhile, my mom would do workouts on TV with Richard Simmons, Susan Powter, Gilad's Bodies in Motion, and Tony Little. We also had a YMCA family membership for a while because it was cheap. Now in my area it's over $800 for a year at the Y, plus a joiner's fee since the cost of living has skyrocketed and gyms are all the rage now.
I loved Bodies In Motion! It wasn't early 80's, so later than the timeframe in the post above, but still a fun workout. That Gilad dude was a hoot!
I'm going to have to see if those are available on DVD. That might be my workout this winter when I don't get outside much.
A few years ago when I first started trying to exercise after joining MFP I stumbled on some Gilad reruns( Total Body Sculpt) aired on Discovery Fit and Health channel. I recorded them, and have about 20 on my DVR. At first I thought they were cheesy, and didn't think they would be effective but I've been doing them 3 x a week with increasing dumbbell weights for the last 3 years and really enjoy them.
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Yes, another naturally slim person.
But here come the comments - "she's really not eating as much as you think she is eating," or, "she's secretly running five miles a day and not telling you," or, "you don't know how much running around she has to do with that kid."
Denial, denial, denial that there are naturally slim people because they have fast metabolisms.
I've followed this thread with interest, and still can't grok what the actual argument is.
Do you agree with the statement that a person can maintain normal weight easier than someone else by:
a) eating less
b) moving more
c) having a faster metabolism
d) a combination of the above
Or are you asserting that some people can eat above their TDEE and still not gain weight (and vice versa)?
The reason people take issue with c) is that 2 standard deviations in metabolism is not that much. Given a TDEE of 2000, 2 SDs covers 1680 -- 2320 a day. 96% of people fall in that range. I can pretty easily cover that spread with a tablespoon, a jar of peanut butter, and a couple of spare mindless minutes.
And yet, the extreme examples that get tossed around are often things like: I'm eating 5000 cals a day and not gaining, HALP! Or, my daily cals are 500 and I'm not losing!
Also, the cases that are always brought up are always anecdotal. I can offer myself as an anecdote on the other side of the discussion. I eat out with friends every Friday. One is obese, probably mordidly so, and the other is obese too. I'm closing in on the top end of normal weight. At one time or another, they've both remarked how amazing it is that I eat 'just as much as them,' yet am somehow losing weight. The reason: that's the only time I eat out all week, and that dinner is sometimes the only 'substantial' food I have all day (Bdubs = calorie apocalypse).
Finally, and I think this is most important -- So what? So what if their are people who can eat a bunch more calories than you can? Does that make you feel wronged somehow? Is it "unfair"? I think going down that path is a path to defeatist thinking. I can only take care of me.
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The most "naturally slim" people in the world are ones that have just enough money to spend on feeding themselves and family everyday without excess. The rest of the time they are out busting their butts to make more money to continue doing that.
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But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
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@ninerbuff I am with you on this one.
I used to be one of those "naturally skinny" people, NOT. I was underweight for many years not because I had good genes. I constantly under ate daily. If you really want to know what a "skinny" person eats, stay with them not 1 day for 24 hours, stay with them for at least 3 to 4 days, you will see how many calories are consumed in those days and also see how much they are active and can stay that skinny.
Case in point, my two daughters are skinny minis. They just do not eat very much period. Albeit too busy with work, boyfriends, and one is actually a registered dietician and has two jobs (yep a dietician.. LOL).. She has an account here on MFP to do her best to log food so she does not eat too little being too busy with work, etc.1 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Yes, another naturally slim person.
But here come the comments - "she's really not eating as much as you think she is eating," or, "she's secretly running five miles a day and not telling you," or, "you don't know how much running around she has to do with that kid."
Denial, denial, denial that there are naturally slim people because they have fast metabolisms.
I've followed this thread with interest, and still can't grok what the actual argument is.
Do you agree with the statement that a person can maintain normal weight easier than someone else by:
a) eating less
b) moving more
c) having a faster metabolism
d) a combination of the above
Or are you asserting that some people can eat above their TDEE and still not gain weight (and vice versa)?
The reason people take issue with c) is that 2 standard deviations in metabolism is not that much. Given a TDEE of 2000, 2 SDs covers 1680 -- 2320 a day. 96% of people fall in that range. I can pretty easily cover that spread with a tablespoon, a jar of peanut butter, and a couple of spare mindless minutes.
And yet, the extreme examples that get tossed around are often things like: I'm eating 5000 cals a day and not gaining, HALP! Or, my daily cals are 500 and I'm not losing!
Also, the cases that are always brought up are always anecdotal. I can offer myself as an anecdote on the other side of the discussion. I eat out with friends every Friday. One is obese, probably mordidly so, and the other is obese too. I'm closing in on the top end of normal weight. At one time or another, they've both remarked how amazing it is that I eat 'just as much as them,' yet am somehow losing weight. The reason: that's the only time I eat out all week, and that dinner is sometimes the only 'substantial' food I have all day (Bdubs = calorie apocalypse).
Finally, and I think this is most important -- So what? So what if their are people who can eat a bunch more calories than you can? Does that make you feel wronged somehow? Is it "unfair"? I think going down that path is a path to defeatist thinking. I can only take care of me.
I've found it interesting too, mostly because I went from being one of those "naturally slim" people to being overweight. I always blamed it on just being older. I'd been told for years, that it would "catch up to me" someday and that the time would come when I couldn't "eat like a kid". Well, that time came and it's very easy for me to blame it on being older and having a slower metabolism.
Hearing people go back and forth on this subject has been very eye opening to me. I'm starting to realize a few things. The first being this: back when I was underweight/normal weight, I was also extremely active. I was eating pretty much the same as I do now, but I was so active that I just burned all the calories away. The reason I never thought of it as being active is because I didn't play sports or do gymnastics or any of the things I typically hear as being "athletic." What did I do? I walked! I walked over a mile to and from school. I also road my bike all over the neighborhood. I ran around outside with my sister and brother. I basically never stopped going until I hit my bed at night. Of course, I was "naturally slim" and of course, once I stopped moving around like that, it all caught up to me.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »eveandqsmom wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I agree that does sound like a small amount, but depending on his height it could be that his TDEE is just that low.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »dragon_girl26 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
Yes, another naturally slim person.
But here come the comments - "she's really not eating as much as you think she is eating," or, "she's secretly running five miles a day and not telling you," or, "you don't know how much running around she has to do with that kid."
Denial, denial, denial that there are naturally slim people because they have fast metabolisms.
Metabolisms do vary, but not greatly given same size and body composition. Often people who eat a lot without gaining as much as expected simply aren't absorbing as much of what they eat as others. While metabolic rates don't vary greatly, guts do.
Right, plus, as already been established, "lots of" pasta means different things to different people. I've lost weight eating while still eating lots of pasta. My definition of lots of pasta has also changed over the years. Pasta in and of itself doesn't make overweight unless you consume too many calories.
Additionally, we can't glean from the original comment how this person eats the rest of the time when not with company, how active they are, etc... if she follows something like the Mediterranean diet, the basis for being able to eat that way is also to be as active as possible.
The bolded section is important. I used to get the "you're so lucky to be naturally slim" remarks all the time because my BMI was low but when with friends I'd eat a lot. But I didn't eat like all the time. Most of the time I ate reasonable portions.
Yeah. My dad had a coworker he exchanged rides to work with years ago. The coworker, a guy, was slim as a rail, and if someone was around only him at dinnertime, they could make the assessment that he must be naturally thin because all he eats is Taco Bell. However, dad was around him for the entire 12 hour shifts at work, and the two Taco Bell tacos was all this coworker ate the entire shift. Their jobs were fairly active, too.
2 tacos? That's sounds like the guy was starving himself. Who would think a man was naturally slim because he ate 2 measly tacos? Even if he ate that for 3 meals a day he'd likely still be eating at a deficit.
I think because people automatically assume fast food = high calories.
Well certainly tacos can be made at home for less calories than Taco Bell but seriously, 2 tacos for a grown man? He must have had a large sugary soda with it.
He also probably ate *something* at home
Yeah, after he got home, it's hard to say what he ate, but I do know he was quite fond of drinking lots of beer..
I couldn't see how a grown man could survive on it otherwise, either. I'd be ready to eat the desk if that's all I ate for 12 hours.
Oh, did I misunderstand your previous post? Weren't you saying people thought he was 'naturally slim' because of the Taco Bell meal?
Sorry, I tend to word things badly sometimes, I think.
He usually had the one meal of two tacos.
No one was actually saying he was naturally slim...I was just presenting the argument that if the only time someone spent with him was at dinnertime, they could think he was naturally slim, despite eating Taco Bell every night.
Does that make better sense?0 -
Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
It doesn't sound like genetics. It sounds like you don't overeat and exercise a lot. I suppose the anxiety may be genetic, but could just as likely be environmental.0 -
Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
To be fair though, you could say there's a nature vs nurture argument there. Isn't it possible you learned your eating habits and preferences from your mom and grandma? Isn't it possible you all could have been heavier, but you learned a lifestyle that keeps you active, well rested, and in-tune to your hunger signals that is being passed down from one generation to the next? And they make you feel good because it is how you were raised and what you are used to?
The entire maternal side of my family struggles with their weight. They show love through food. There is constant pressure to clean your plate and take more. They can't be together for 5 minutes without food and wine and dessert. They love to bake and eat desserts constantly. Not very active. They will swear all around that they are genetically predisposed to gain weight. But I recognized the lifestyle that was causing the issues and refused to fall in line. They all roll their eyes at me for being "naturally thin". They get annoyed with me when I won't take seconds. They make fun of me for wearing my fitbit. But they say it's unfair I'm naturally thin! Just my 2 cents :drinker:5 -
Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Over time, I've learned that these individuals who are naturally slim simply have better habits than I do. Their portion sizes are more reasonable, they don't eat excessively, they're more active, and so forth. My thinking was quite skewed in that women who fretted over gaining a pound or two, and exercised regularly, were "obsessed". I never thought to consider that their definition of eating "a lot" was probably very, very different than my definition of eating "a lot". For them, working out and eating conscientiously was THEIR normal - whereas mine was no exercise and unrestrained gluttony. I'm not "naturally fat", I just never bothered looking after my weight.
My sister gets frustrated when people accuse her of being "naturally thin" and "oh, you can just eat whatever you want!" They generally have no idea that she used to weigh about 220 lbs. They have no idea that despite happily chowing down on a generous slice of cake, she is otherwise very careful about how she eats.
Not everyone that is "naturally thin' has healthy habits. Thin doesn't naturally mean healthy.0 -
I never really understood that study as to whether they were referring to BMR or TDEE. If TDEE, I don't get it. People who are overweight or obese are by default going to have a higher TDEE than someone of normal or below normal weight (assuming equal activity level), and yet over half of the population is comprised of these people. So if someone has a TDEE of 2350, that's to say that they're in that small of a minority with a TDEE that high? That's about what calculators would estimate the TDEE for an average weight male who who has an activity level of sedentary to lightly active.
The reason people take issue with c) is that 2 standard deviations in metabolism is not that much. Given a TDEE of 2000, 2 SDs covers 1680 -- 2320 a day. 96% of people fall in that range. I can pretty easily cover that spread with a tablespoon, a jar of peanut butter, and a couple of spare mindless minutes.gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Yes, another naturally slim person.
But here come the comments - "she's really not eating as much as you think she is eating," or, "she's secretly running five miles a day and not telling you," or, "you don't know how much running around she has to do with that kid."
Denial, denial, denial that there are naturally slim people because they have fast metabolisms.
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But different people have different bone structures, which is going to influence what constitutes a healthy weight for a given individual. I would say a small boned person is genetically programmed to be naturally thin from that perspective. While yes a small boned person could still overeat and become fat, they're wired to be thinner than others.Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
To be fair though, you could say there's a nature vs nurture argument there. Isn't it possible you learned your eating habits and preferences from your mom and grandma? Isn't it possible you all could have been heavier, but you learned a lifestyle that keeps you active, well rested, and in-tune to your hunger signals that is being passed down from one generation to the next? And they make you feel good because it is how you were raised and what you are used to?
The entire maternal side of my family struggles with their weight. They show love through food. There is constant pressure to clean your plate and take more. They can't be together for 5 minutes without food and wine and dessert. They love to bake and eat desserts constantly. Not very active. They will swear all around that they are genetically predisposed to gain weight. But I recognized the lifestyle that was causing the issues and refused to fall in line. They all roll their eyes at me for being "naturally thin". They get annoyed with me when I won't take seconds. They make fun of me for wearing my fitbit. But they say it's unfair I'm naturally thin! Just my 2 cents :drinker:
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Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
Naw, my granny was a rail, her dad was really tall and muscular but not fat (even though he drank like a fish), and my mom and her brother were always heavy. Conversely, my father's mother was tall and fat, and he's 5'10" and slim (in his late 70s), as are his sisters (I never knew his father but from all accounts he was in the normal range of weight and height). My brother was always the "chubby kid" and now he's very fit. I used to be "naturally" skinny and now I'm fat (which is of course why I'm here). One of my doctors was completely embarassed because he assumed I'd always been overweight, but then I told him my history and he was at a loss. I'll give you that body type in regard to bone mass and height and that sort of thing probably gets passed down, but I don't think it's a super solid predictor. Eating habits, maybe. I think activity is a key factor and your body needs the right fuel or it's not going anywhere.2 -
Hurray for unclear language. By "her dad" I mean my mom's dad, my granny's husband.0
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Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
I don't think anyone's really disputing this level of detail. We're saying, lots of people probably don't have 113 lb 5'9" friends who eat 3000 calories everyday, sit on their heine all day and never gain a pound. Yeah I definitely know people who will take you to their favorite restaurant in the world, then not eat a thing because they just aren't hungry. Or you bought the same yummy food early in the day, I'm already on my fourth meal by nightfall and they still haven't eaten it or anything else. I'd have hunger burning a hole in my stomach by then and certainly couldn't do it
Seeing how that's far, FAR into the upper 2% of metabolisms (lacking exact numbers but I'd say far into the 0.X% even), I'd say that's an understatement.
Actually, can someone who is adept at statistics calculate the percentage of people that are that high if the mean seems to be around 2000 and 96% are within +-300 of that?0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
But different people have different bone structures, which is going to influence what constitutes a healthy weight for a given individual. I would say a small boned person is genetically programmed to be naturally thin from that perspective. While yes a small boned person could still overeat and become fat, they're wired to be thinner than others.Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
To be fair though, you could say there's a nature vs nurture argument there. Isn't it possible you learned your eating habits and preferences from your mom and grandma? Isn't it possible you all could have been heavier, but you learned a lifestyle that keeps you active, well rested, and in-tune to your hunger signals that is being passed down from one generation to the next? And they make you feel good because it is how you were raised and what you are used to?
The entire maternal side of my family struggles with their weight. They show love through food. There is constant pressure to clean your plate and take more. They can't be together for 5 minutes without food and wine and dessert. They love to bake and eat desserts constantly. Not very active. They will swear all around that they are genetically predisposed to gain weight. But I recognized the lifestyle that was causing the issues and refused to fall in line. They all roll their eyes at me for being "naturally thin". They get annoyed with me when I won't take seconds. They make fun of me for wearing my fitbit. But they say it's unfair I'm naturally thin! Just my 2 cents :drinker:
I have nothing scientific to back this up, but I have always been given the impression by dietitians and trainers that "big-boned" and "small-boned" are rather minor variations and don't actually affect your weight by more than a few pounds. I think at this point we're splitting hairs. Of course people with larger frames are larger, by definition. It doesn't mean they can't be "thin". People who say "I'm not fat, I'm big-boned" are the same as people who insist they have slow metabolisms, undiagnosed medical conditions, and genetic pre-dispositions.
I'm not "naturally thin" because I'm small boned or have a petite frame, I'm "naturally thin" because I make smart lifestyle decisions and work my *kitten* off.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
I don't think anyone's really disputing this level of detail. We're saying, lots of people probably don't have 113 lb 5'9" friends who eat 3000 calories everyday, sit on their heine all day and never gain a pound. Yeah I definitely know people who will take you to their favorite restaurant in the world, then not eat a thing because they just aren't hungry. Or you bought the same yummy food early in the day, I'm already on my fourth meal by nightfall and they still haven't eaten it or anything else. I'd have hunger burning a hole in my stomach by then and certainly couldn't do it
Seeing how that's far, FAR into the upper 2% of metabolisms (lacking exact numbers but I'd say far into the 0.X% even), I'd say that's an understatement.
Actually, can someone who is adept at statistics calculate the percentage of people that are that high if the mean seems to be around 2000 and 96% are within +-300 of that?
Looking at that whole standard deviation stuff, it appears to be "infinitesimal", as it would be over 6 standard deviations from the mean.0 -
Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
To be fair though, you could say there's a nature vs nurture argument there. Isn't it possible you learned your eating habits and preferences from your mom and grandma? Isn't it possible you all could have been heavier, but you learned a lifestyle that keeps you active, well rested, and in-tune to your hunger signals that is being passed down from one generation to the next? And they make you feel good because it is how you were raised and what you are used to?
The entire maternal side of my family struggles with their weight. They show love through food. There is constant pressure to clean your plate and take more. They can't be together for 5 minutes without food and wine and dessert. They love to bake and eat desserts constantly. Not very active. They will swear all around that they are genetically predisposed to gain weight. But I recognized the lifestyle that was causing the issues and refused to fall in line. They all roll their eyes at me for being "naturally thin". They get annoyed with me when I won't take seconds. They make fun of me for wearing my fitbit. But they say it's unfair I'm naturally thin! Just my 2 cents :drinker:
I dunno, my mom and dad's family is from New Orleans and we LOVE FOOD. The daughters love to cook, one makes fifteen kinds of cookies at Christmas and the other makes carefully crafted vegetarian suppers for us every night, none of what we eat is low fat or consciously made to keep anyone thin. We absolutely feed people who come to the house, offer drinks and stuff. Though not always dessert, I don't keep it around all the time. Food is Love too. My mom grew up with fried chicken, meat at supper every day, sweet tea.
The Ex got fat while the rest of us stayed skinny, eating bigger portions I guess, but it was funny to me, we all had the same food and he would complain that we could all eat it without getting fat, why couldn't he?
I did hear somewhere that a susceptibility to obesity was epigenetic, you can flip a switch by getting fat and pass the tendency on to your children? Through DNA...
Getting off topic, but on the original question:
I don't really think about it much, I work in an office filled with athletic people so most everyone is pretty thin or at a healthy size. I think of that as normal. I do, however, believe that it's easier for some people than others.
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No-one is "naturally slim". Some people eat less than others. Other people have a higher NEAT than others. It's a question of CI < CO
I really don't think it's this simple. Yea, CI CO, but I'm sure we've all had those friends who just don't gain weight.
One of my friends is stick thin, maybe 140 lbs, and he tried to gain weight by eating 5000-6000 calories a day without much activity (eating jars of hummus with bread, etc.) and he couldn't gain a pound. I'm not a geneticist so I can't speak to the genes behind metabolic adaptation but something has to give.
1 -
Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Over time, I've learned that these individuals who are naturally slim simply have better habits than I do. Their portion sizes are more reasonable, they don't eat excessively, they're more active, and so forth. My thinking was quite skewed in that women who fretted over gaining a pound or two, and exercised regularly, were "obsessed". I never thought to consider that their definition of eating "a lot" was probably very, very different than my definition of eating "a lot". For them, working out and eating conscientiously was THEIR normal - whereas mine was no exercise and unrestrained gluttony. I'm not "naturally fat", I just never bothered looking after my weight.
My sister gets frustrated when people accuse her of being "naturally thin" and "oh, you can just eat whatever you want!" They generally have no idea that she used to weigh about 220 lbs. They have no idea that despite happily chowing down on a generous slice of cake, she is otherwise very careful about how she eats.
So you are going to tell me with a straight face that if you took, say, 200 women who are 5'6" and 150 lbs., and gave them the exact same number of calories for two months, and they did the same amount of exercise in those two months, that at the end of two months they would have all lost the same weight?
You're not really saying that, are you?
2 -
But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is the usual cop out answer because nobody is with anybody 24 hours a day. Therefore you cannot "prove" there is such a thing as a naturally skinny person. Obviously, these people who we think are naturally skinny have this rare condition where they can only eat when other people are around, and cannot eat when nobody is looking.
Ridiculous. And I am speaking as someone who was skin and bones in college, did zero exercise, and ate more than most of my fraternity brothers.1 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is the usual cop out answer because nobody is with anybody 24 hours a day. Therefore you cannot "prove" there is such a thing as a naturally skinny person. Obviously, these people who you think are naturally skinny have this rare condition where they can only eat when other people are around, and cannot eat when nobody is looking.
Ridiculous. And I am speaking as someone who was skin and bones in college, did zero exercise, and ate more than most of my fraternity brothers.
And on that same note, are we supposed to believe you too? I don't believe you either.2 -
queenliz99 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is the usual cop out answer because nobody is with anybody 24 hours a day. Therefore you cannot "prove" there is such a thing as a naturally skinny person. Obviously, these people who you think are naturally skinny have this rare condition where they can only eat when other people are around, and cannot eat when nobody is looking.
Ridiculous. And I am speaking as someone who was skin and bones in college, did zero exercise, and ate more than most of my fraternity brothers.
And on that same note, are we supposed to believe you too? I don't believe you either.
Why would I lie? Am I trying to sell something?
There are naturally skinny people (usually under 25) who can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight. It is in an undeniable and irrefutable fact of life. It's called FAST METABOLISM. There bodies burn more calories than what is normal. How hard is this to understand?0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
But HOW MUCH she eats matters. Unless you're with her 24 hours a day, you can't say she's slim just because when you see her she eats that way.RachelElser wrote: »Some people are naturally slim. My friend is just a little over 5 feet, 110 lbs soaking wet, near 40 years old with a kid. And I've seen what she eats. She's Italian and Sicilian so lots of pasta and she drinks regular soda. She also has great skin and looks 10 years younger then she is!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is the usual cop out answer because nobody is with anybody 24 hours a day. Therefore you cannot "prove" there is such a thing as a naturally skinny person. Obviously, these people who you think are naturally skinny have this rare condition where they can only eat when other people are around, and cannot eat when nobody is looking.
Ridiculous. And I am speaking as someone who was skin and bones in college, did zero exercise, and ate more than most of my fraternity brothers.
And on that same note, are we supposed to believe you too? I don't believe you either.
Why would I lie? Am I trying to sell something?
There are naturally skinny people (usually under 25) who can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight. It is in an undeniable and irrefutable fact of life. It's called FAST METABOLISM. There bodies burn more calories than what is normal. How hard is this to understand?
Because as posts up thread have shown, the variations in the metabolism when studied and quantified, are not statistically significant. You've shown no counter studies which refute this, just your strong convictions and appeals to emotion that naturally skinny people exist who can eat and eat and eat and never gain weight.4 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Wicked_Seraph wrote: »Over time, I've learned that these individuals who are naturally slim simply have better habits than I do. Their portion sizes are more reasonable, they don't eat excessively, they're more active, and so forth. My thinking was quite skewed in that women who fretted over gaining a pound or two, and exercised regularly, were "obsessed". I never thought to consider that their definition of eating "a lot" was probably very, very different than my definition of eating "a lot". For them, working out and eating conscientiously was THEIR normal - whereas mine was no exercise and unrestrained gluttony. I'm not "naturally fat", I just never bothered looking after my weight.
My sister gets frustrated when people accuse her of being "naturally thin" and "oh, you can just eat whatever you want!" They generally have no idea that she used to weigh about 220 lbs. They have no idea that despite happily chowing down on a generous slice of cake, she is otherwise very careful about how she eats.
So you are going to tell me with a straight face that if you took, say, 200 women who are 5'6" and 150 lbs., and gave them the exact same number of calories for two months, and they did the same amount of exercise in those two months, that at the end of two months they would have all lost the same weight?
You're not really saying that, are you?
IF you could control percentage of lean body mass, level of activity including fidgeting, waking hours, etc then yes...they would all be a remarkably similar weight at the end...but that's a big IF isn't it? And that's the point. When you add up all the variables you get an unlimited number of reasons why one person will gain weight while another won't.
Are you trying to tell me with a straight face that if you put two people in the same room with all variables accounted for that one person will be fat and another will be skinny?2 -
Again, just because it's behavior doesn't mean it's natural or unnatural.
I literally forget to eat if I am not hungry, and if I drink too much coffee in the morning, or the aforementioned big breakfast, I will feel full until supper-time. I am kind of anxious naturally and feel much better and calmer if I exercise to exhaustion at least once a day, preferably twice. I have trouble sitting still. I sleep 7.5 hours every night and 9 if I can on weekends, and don't feel good if I don't.
These things are part of my nature. They aren't learned responses, or don't feel like learned responses, they are the healthy behaviors of my normal body and mind if I am feeling good and not stressed. The things I do because they feel good, they keep me feeling good.
And again - skinny grandma, slim mom, slender daughters. There is no way that some of this isn't genetic.
Say you put everyone on the planet into their optimum shape and size. Those shapes and sizes would vary, right?
To be fair though, you could say there's a nature vs nurture argument there. Isn't it possible you learned your eating habits and preferences from your mom and grandma? Isn't it possible you all could have been heavier, but you learned a lifestyle that keeps you active, well rested, and in-tune to your hunger signals that is being passed down from one generation to the next? And they make you feel good because it is how you were raised and what you are used to?
The entire maternal side of my family struggles with their weight. They show love through food. There is constant pressure to clean your plate and take more. They can't be together for 5 minutes without food and wine and dessert. They love to bake and eat desserts constantly. Not very active. They will swear all around that they are genetically predisposed to gain weight. But I recognized the lifestyle that was causing the issues and refused to fall in line. They all roll their eyes at me for being "naturally thin". They get annoyed with me when I won't take seconds. They make fun of me for wearing my fitbit. But they say it's unfair I'm naturally thin! Just my 2 cents :drinker:
I don't know. My father was always slim. My mother was on every fad diet that ever was written.
I was "naturally thin" until I was involved in an accident when I was in my 30s.
I know for me, my eating habits changed - as someone mentioned, more money meant meant more chances to explore food. And my activity level changed, my injuries meant my activity level dropped - which is when I gained the most weight.0
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