What do you think of people who are naturally slim?
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I didn't read the entire thread, but what I did read all seems to have the same common theme. People who are "naturally slim" are all active, not sedentary. This is the primary reason that the incidence of obesity has gone up drastically from previous generations is due to the change in lifestyle causing a more sedentary life. The typical serving size of food hasn't changed, just our perception of it has, mostly due to restaurants and fast food. People who eat normally large amounts of food and aren't active enough to counteract that won't be thin. Yes, there are genetic abnormalities and actual diseases that effect things, but in general no.
tl;dr CI>CO=overweight(without conditioning) CI<CO=slim or underweight1 -
Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.8 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
Yes I agree with this!0 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
On the other hand, I watch my mother eat the same things and she always cleans her plates at restaurants. She eats such a larger quantity that I do. If I ate that much of those foods, I would definitely gain weight.5 -
Depends. People who struggle to keep weight on have a struggle, too. Different, but not easy. It's especially hard for small men who have trouble getting buff when that's what they really want.
That is how one of my sons feels. He can eat a lot and not gain weight and wants to except he is tall and lean.0 -
To some extent I used to be envious, but when I really look into their eating habits and workouts or lack of.. It's not that surprising. I'm starting to get over it and not compare myself to that...
Some people eat a lot, but not for every meal or they may only have one large meal and a snack for the rest of the day. Some people are super active without even going to the gym. They can't sit down and watch tv. They will constantly be doing some house work or just plain fidgety. Some are thin, but "skinny fat". They have no muscles/strength and no endurance because they don't workout and eat poorly.4 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I was one of the "naturally slim" people who would say things like that ... but for me, "eating a horse" just meant that I was quite hungry and wanted something slightly larger than my normal-sized meal. If it were something like pizza, I'd eat my usual amount of pizza, and maybe one extra slice, and I was full.
And the reason I was quite hungry ... usually because I had just cycled a fairly long distance, or hiked somewhere, or spent 8 hours on my feet waitressing, or some other activity ... and/or I hadn't eaten in a long time.
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This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)10
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Conclusion: "naturally thin people" just less or exactly what their body needs, so they don't gain weight. Agreed!
But now, I have a question to add: why do so many of those people SAY that they do otherwise?
I ask because I was an overweight teenager in a world full of "naturally thin people" who would say things like: "Oh man, I could eat a horse! Let's gorge ourselves on pizza and cake" (ok, not verbatim, but you get the idea). We would then proceed to buy massive amounts of food. I, being the chubster I was/am totally took them at their word and would then eat way above my calorie needs. I guess I never really noticed whether they were actually doing what they claimed to do or not, but I was overweight and they weren't, so I guess not.
I'm not blaming anyone for my weight issues. I'm just pointing out that if people said they ate all the time, massive amounts of junk food, etc., I believed them, and then assumed that my weight gain was due to genetics and hypothyridism.
I always said I could "eat whatever I want" and would eat what to ME was a huge portion of pizza, Oreos, etc. I would be stuffed and feel horrible. However, if I eat donuts, I eat one and maybe a bite of another until I feel full and the sweetness is sickening. If I eat pizza with all the toppings, I feel stuffed after 3 pieces. If I go to a restaurant and order pasta with cream sauce on it, I never finish it. However, to me, I just ate pizza, donuts, pasta with cream sauce, felt stuffed, and didn't gain weight.
Yeah, this was me as a teenager and into my early 20s. I thought I ate a ton, but looking back I really didn't. I did eat as much as I wanted without thinking about it, and I maintained my reasonably thin weight, because what I wanted lined up with what I needed to do that at my level of activity (inconsistent when it comes to intentional exercise, but I walked a lot because that was a necessary part of my daily life running around a campus or, later, a city).
Unfortunately for me, over time I found that although I still don't really like eating huge portions at a meal (although I can eat more than I did), and although I still find many things too sweet to eat much of, I have learned to eat more and also my life changed so that food was more consistently available. Can't eat more than 3 pieces of pizza, but I can eat that many calories if spread over an afternoon. Once I realized that and while I was gaining weight, I changed my habits, but I'm no longer "naturally thin" in that I never have to think about it (and haven't been for a long time), I do have to be mindful.
From observing and talking to people I know who have always been thin (including my sister), some are naturally thin in that they never have to think about it (most of the ones I know are either extremely active or not interested in food much), but most do think about it some or have intentionally cultivated helpful habits. They just realized the need to do this before getting fat.2 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
I don't think it is fair to compare "naturally thin" people with people suffering from an eating disorder. I would think "naturally thin" people generally have normalized eating habits and don't purposefully eat in front of others to hide anything. If I eat a big meal at a restaurant, I am naturally not as hungry for the next meal. If I didn't eat as much as usual during the day because I was busy, I am naturally famished at dinner and will eat more. That doesn't mean that I am skipping meals in order to put on a show for others at dinner. Or that I am restricting myself after a large dinner as punishment. I am just following my hungry cues.
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I think they eat as much as they burn. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less.
For example, my younger sister has never had to consciously diet. She's always been thin. But she never eats a whole serving at a restaurant. She never goes back for seconds when she's visiting our parents. She intuitively knows how much is enough and so she's never had to worry about the weight loss roller coaster.
She isn't "naturally" slim any more than I'm "naturally" heavy. She just makes better choices.4 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »zoeysasha37 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »There is no such thing as naturally thin people.
Well I was one until I was 25. Ate like a horse, did not exercise, could not gain weight. Just short of 6' 1", and was under 150 lbs. Both my parents were bean-poles in their 20's, as was my uncle, and my first cousins. To flat-out state that there are not naturally skinny people flies in the face of reality.
Oh, and as we all got older, we all got heavier. And it wasn't because we were eating more and exercising less. Guess there is this thing called metabolism.
CICO We get heavier because we don't move as much and are still eating the same amount of food or more. CICO my friend.
From the day my track team ended senior year in HS, I essentially stopped doing anything physical. So I didn't move any less at age 30 than I did at age 19. And I did not eat more at 30 than I did at 19.
It's very simple. My metabolism slowed. There is no other reason. Certainly you are aware of the concept of metabolism. I could not eat the same number of calories at 30 that I ate at 19.
You should start back by reading the stickied threads in the beginning of these forums . You clearly have missed the whole calories in calories out thing. .....
I found this article. Any thoughts?
http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity
I knew it would be something laughable when I read the word "demolish" in the title. I'm glad I clicked. I wasn't wrong and it was very amusing.
There are many who are much more in the know than I am who do not believe the CICO theory as it applies to the human body (it applies in a lab with a bunsen burner). I don't have an opinion one way or the other. But I do have an open mind.
If you look at the people quoted, every single one of them is benefitting from selling "information". They might not believe what they are saying themselves. It's just that "you've been doing it wrong" and "what they don't want you to know" are attractive concepts that sell well.
If the calorie hypothesis was "demolished" you wouldn't see it used constantly in the vast majority of scientific papers that deal with weight, because although it can't always be calculated perfectly, it's the most accurate most predictable thing we know. Sure, there are certain processes involved that affect how much you eat and how much you burn, but the basic principle always holds true: medical conditions aside, if you are gaining, you are eating more calories than your body burns for whatever reason, be it by knowingly overeating or by a nonconscious decrease in activity. A 19 year old has more spring to their step, move around more even when they are sitting, walk around more even if it doesn't feel like they are active...etc.
No, I don't think people are selling information. I am not saying the concept of CICO is incorrect. I am saying that people who know a hell of a lot more about nutrition than I do are saying it is incorrect. One of hundreds:
"Feinman has looked at calories from the perspective of thermodynamics—or the laws that govern heat and energy. Like Ludwig, he says the idea that calories from different macronutrient sources would have the same effect on your body is silly. Put simply, it doesn’t make sense that “a calorie is a calorie” because your body uses the energy from different foods in a variety of ways, Feinman explains."
http://time.com/2988142/you-asked-are-all-calories-created-equal/
The thing is, most of this is wrong and what's right is simply majoring in minors and making long drawn out explanations for something that has little to no practical use. Yeah, sure protein has a higher thermic effect than carbs for example, but would those extra few calories burned a day make any real difference? You're talking about a difference of a couple of pounds a year, and even that you would be hard pressed to practically produce because of other variables. If you really want to close that gap, just jump in place for a few seconds after eating carbs and there you go.
Refined vs unrefined carbs? Same deal, and it's not how it works anyway. You aren't going to get fat in a deficit no matter what kinds of hormones your body pumps. Your body burns more carbs than fat during high intensity exercises. Yes, that's a fact, but it does not translate to "stop doing high intensity activities because they put burning fat on hold which would lead to not losing weight". Taking half truths and extrapolating something that sounds vaguely scientific is not hard.
All of this is like saying the braking mechanism in a car does not work and has been debunked because it relies mainly on friction and ignores other variables like how atmospheric pressure affects air resistance, introducing unpredictable uncontrollable variables that have little to no practical effect on a process that works, with the sole purpose of introducing confusion and uncertainty. The calorie theory does not deny the small details. They are after all part of calories in/out, but for the purpose of weight loss the process is simplified to include the thing that has the largest impact, and that's calories in food and calories out as basal, exercise, and nonexercise activities.
I have gained weight on whole foods, and I have lost weight on fast foods and vice versa. The type of food makes little difference beyond satiety on a diet.
For weight loss you only need a few things:
1. A reasonably accurate measure for calories in and calories out, it does not have to be exact or take into account the minutia. You can tweak and fine tune it based on your results anyway. Some people are able to lose weight without counting by deploying certain strategies that help reduce calories in and/or increase calories out, but the body does not stop counting.
2. Adherence. The diet needs to be easy enough to follow consistently and fit your personal preferences and needs
3. Satiety. Your food of choice needs to not make you constantly hungry. A little hunger every now and then is alright and tolerable, but constant hunger is not. If you wish to make sacrifices every now and then letting yourself go a little bit hungry for something that you really want and would help adherence, the process will teach you when it's worth it.
4. Consistency. Dieting for a week then wiping your deficit in a couple of days will not work.11 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
I don't think it is fair to compare "naturally thin" people with people suffering from an eating disorder. I would think "naturally thin" people generally have normalized eating habits and don't purposefully eat in front of others to hide anything. If I eat a big meal at a restaurant, I am naturally not as hungry for the next meal. If I didn't eat as much as usual during the day because I was busy, I am naturally famished at dinner and will eat more. That doesn't mean that I am skipping meals in order to put on a show for others at dinner. Or that I am restricting myself after a large dinner as punishment. I am just following my hungry cues.
No, No you misunderstand!!...I am not intending to compare thin people to anorexics!! (Sorry if that's how it reads.) I was saying overweight people (that would be me) are the "opposite" if you will, of anorexics in that we often eat alone and with people, so it may seem that we aren't overeating if we are eating a normal amount when we are with other people. No comment at all on the thin folks, who we all want to emulate (at least I do!)
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KetoneKaren wrote: »KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
I don't think it is fair to compare "naturally thin" people with people suffering from an eating disorder. I would think "naturally thin" people generally have normalized eating habits and don't purposefully eat in front of others to hide anything. If I eat a big meal at a restaurant, I am naturally not as hungry for the next meal. If I didn't eat as much as usual during the day because I was busy, I am naturally famished at dinner and will eat more. That doesn't mean that I am skipping meals in order to put on a show for others at dinner. Or that I am restricting myself after a large dinner as punishment. I am just following my hungry cues.
No, No you misunderstand!!...I am not intending to compare thin people to anorexics!! (Sorry if that's how it reads.) I was saying overweight people (that would be me) are the "opposite" if you will, of anorexics in that we often eat alone and with people, so it may seem that we aren't overeating if we are eating a normal amount when we are with other people. No comment at all on the thin folks, who we all want to emulate (at least I do!)
Ok got it. I thought you were saying the comments regarding naturally thin people reminded you of anorexics. Binge eating in secret is just another form of disordered eating, but to the outside world they appear to be eating normally.0 -
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For those of us who are or were thin during our 20s, another thing that should be considered is the role of anabolic hormones in metabolism. Even after most physical growth is complete, growth hormone remains high for some time and then declines during this decade in life. In general, that is irrespective of activity level and eating habits.2
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KetoneKaren wrote: »KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
I don't think it is fair to compare "naturally thin" people with people suffering from an eating disorder. I would think "naturally thin" people generally have normalized eating habits and don't purposefully eat in front of others to hide anything. If I eat a big meal at a restaurant, I am naturally not as hungry for the next meal. If I didn't eat as much as usual during the day because I was busy, I am naturally famished at dinner and will eat more. That doesn't mean that I am skipping meals in order to put on a show for others at dinner. Or that I am restricting myself after a large dinner as punishment. I am just following my hungry cues.
No, No you misunderstand!!...I am not intending to compare thin people to anorexics!! (Sorry if that's how it reads.) I was saying overweight people (that would be me) are the "opposite" if you will, of anorexics in that we often eat alone and with people, so it may seem that we aren't overeating if we are eating a normal amount when we are with other people. No comment at all on the thin folks, who we all want to emulate (at least I do!)
Ok got it. I thought you were saying the comments regarding naturally thin people reminded you of anorexics. Binge eating in secret is just another form of disordered eating, but to the outside world they appear to be eating normally.
This.
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Depends. People who struggle to keep weight on have a struggle, too. Different, but not easy. It's especially hard for small men who have trouble getting buff when that's what they really want.
That is how one of my sons feels. He can eat a lot and not gain weight and wants to except he is tall and lean.
Does your son know his TDEE and how many calories he is eating per day?0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »This discussion reminds me of something I have read about people with anorexia...one tactic to avoid detection is to never eat alone, so that other people don't realize how little food is actually being consumed. This is the antithesis to most of us who are overweight or obese. Many of us eat alone, and then we eat with other people, too, which may seem to others as if we eat a normal amount of food. (Or we overeat in both circumstances.)
This is an excellent point. You see this a lot in other threads when people complain about not losing weight when they see their more slender friends eating as much or *gasp* more than them. The key is that we never see those people 24 hours a day and cannot make assumptions on their overall habits based on the small sample size of what we do see.5
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